silverswordJanuary 8, 2010

Please let me know your opinion on the following:

1. At what age is this book appropriate?

2. At what age is the book/movie themed makeup appropriate?

3. Do you think it's ok to be "in love/lust" with one of the main characters along with your child?

4. Can you think of a similar movie/book when you were a young adult?

All I can think of is VC Andrews (nasty books, poorly written, that my girlfriends and I loved in 8th grade. totally inappropriate)

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Reading good.

LOL. It's a made up story. I read all four books. There is nothing overly explicit in any of them. My 12 year old is reading them. I don't think its bad. It's reading.
George Carlin said I'd rather my kids watch two adults making love than trying to violently kill one another.
Not that you necessarily want them to see either, but the idea is the Twilight story is about love and loyalty. Good positive traits. It's a story. If a kid can decipher reality and fantasy and they wanna read it, let em.
Oh and the in lust thing, LOL, sorry but men that are super strong and immortal is just hot no matter what your age.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2010 at 3:39PM
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1. At what age is this book appropriate?
I dont think I could pick out a specific age. I suppose it really depends on the kid. My 8 year old who loves reading has no interest in it at all so it has never come up. My older boys have a lot less interest in reading and consider the twilight books "chick stuff"
2. At what age is the book/movie themed makeup appropriate? movie themed make up? I'm assuming this means wearing make up like they do. If I remember correctly bella doesnt really wear make up...but either way my girls arent allowed to wear make up until they are in middle school and even then they are only allowed to wear it to enhance their features (we have had a lot of talk about what make up is and is not supposed to look like on the face and what it's real purpose should be so they are pretty level headed about it even at their age)
3. Do you think it's ok to be "in love/lust" with one of the main characters along with your child? along with your child???!!! I would hope a grown adult could seperate fantasy from reality a little more than that. I think there is something seriously wrong with the women on tv screaming and crying along with their daughters over the characters. I mean appreciating the hotness of some guy is one thing... going ga ga over it is another.
4. Can you think of a similar movie/book when you were a young adult?
I was going to say VC andrews too as far as the book goes. But, I remember when everyone was just oh so in love with Leonardo Dicaprio after Titanic and then Romeo and Juliet... it was all the rage. My parents allowed me my girlhood crush.. and bought me posters and the movies.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2010 at 3:54PM
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Pinkhill... really? It's made up? I agree that no matter what age a person is they can find certain traits attractive. My question was regarding openly expressing attraction to a man young enough (in the movie) to be your son, and one that your daughter also has a crush on. Is that appropriate?

Momof4... there is movie-brand twilight makeup. trust me.

I had massive crushes too... but they generally started after 9th grade (except for David Bowie in Labyrinth in 6th grade... talk about a sex-pot!)

I agree with middle school for makeup, and then only perhaps a light lipstick/blush/eyeshadow.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2010 at 4:04PM
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I think adults cultivate poor taste in children/teens so they can make money out of it: I mean book/film/fashion industry, not parents. I think poor taste is never age appropriate. But it sure sells.

Thanks to my parents, I never read pop fiction and only read literature. Not to sound a snob...But that's true. i did browse through the book, it is certainly not a piece of literature.

I don't mind stupid movies/TV shows just to relax, but cannot read this type of books.

I think it is better to read Twilight than read nothing, so it is good if people read it (who normally would not read anything).

I never had crushes on books or characters, I did have crushes on real people: boys i mean LOL starting like 9th grade. I have some famous people that i am somewhat obsessed about, like I read everything about them and want to know every detail about their lives. Maybe that's a crush.

DD had a crush on David Bowie, she had shirts and posters and was hysterical when I bought her tickets to his concert. She was in high school, don't remember grades. she was also obsessed with Libertines guys, there are still posters on the wall in her room in my house.

i was wearing some makeup in 9th grade, I never had make up issue with DD, she didn't care about it in high school, she was too lazy to apply it. She wears some make up now, very little.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2010 at 4:40PM
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lol I was totally gonna say VC Andrews too! I read them as a teenager,they were my favorite, I wouldn't say the orginal books written by VC Andrews were trash...definately a way too explicit for a pre teen though I think...regardless, It got me reading and that has stayed with me my whole life.......
My SD is in 6th grade, has seen both the movies, and read most of the books, I saw the movies with her, I didn't think it was any worse than a batman movie or even shows that are on cable these days......
We allow SD to wear a little bit of makeup, not a lot though and I haven't seen the themed make up but if SD wanted to wear it I would have to look at it first..we don't do really dark makeup so that would be the determining factor for us....
I'm not real sure on the whole mother/daughter lust thing....maybe it's normal IDK?

    Bookmark   January 8, 2010 at 4:52PM
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Everything you said about VC Andrews fits the Twilight series. There is married sex in the last book, but not explicit. If you want your kid reading crappy pop fiction, then let them read Twilight, though it won't hurt them any more than all the crappy teevee . .

    Bookmark   January 8, 2010 at 5:57PM
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1. At what age is this book appropriate?
-- I read them to see what all the fuss was about. They're pure bubble gum! All sugar and crushy daydream fantasy with no literary value what so ever. So poorly written that I actually sold them on Craigslist the day I finished reading them because I was embarassed to have them around. (But I have to admit, they were a fun read when they didn't make you wince or burst out laughing at the cheese factor.) It's boy-crazy-silly, not explicit sex.

2. At what age is the book/movie themed makeup appropriate?
-- Regular make-up maybe late 8th grade or high school? If it's 'vampire style' make-up, then Halloween or 16.

3. Do you think it's ok to be "in love/lust" with one of the main characters along with your child?
-- No. The leads in the Twilight series are definitely hot, but they're boys, not men. IMO, grown women should require a little substance, not just pretty boy-fluff. (IMO, even Brad Pitt borders on the boy-fluff. Give me a real man like a middle aged Paul Newman or Ed Harris...)

4. Can you think of a similar movie/book when you were a young adult?
-- Anything similar wouldn't have been memorable.

As a parent, I'd permit Twilight with good-natured indulgence, but make it clear it wasn't something to be taken seriously...

    Bookmark   January 8, 2010 at 6:14PM
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1. At what age is this book appropriate?
I enjoyed them, I am not ashamed of that at all. =) I agree they are not real substantial pieces of literature, However; the lady is one heck of a storyteller. Not sure on the appropriate age, children differ so much in maturaty. Most of the books are pretty fluffy however; there is a strong undertone of sex and lust in all of the series. So it also depends on how permissive of a parent are you? For me the final book was far innapropriate for younger girls. Although the sex scenes aren't all that descriptive the book itself is very suggestive and the pregnancy and birthing is down right violent.

2. At what age is the book/movie themed makeup appropriate?
My girls don't do make up except mild lip gloss and occassionally some light eyeshadow until they are 14. Even at 14 there are limitations, if it looks like they are off to work at barnum and bailey circus they wash it off. At 16 I am open to allow them to experiment and go to the extreme if they choose to. (normally by the time they hit 16 they are over the whole heavy make up thing though) So far 2 of my girls have went through this and I haven't had a vamp in the house yet.

3. Do you think it's ok to be "in love/lust" with one of the main characters along with your child?
Blah.. if you must I guess.. Although along with your child? I don't know but anything to do with sex/ lust and me has nothing to do with my child. I am not comfortable with that. I mean to talk with them about how an actor is "hot" or good looking ok. But to get obseesed no.
Your child needs you to keep your wit about you so that SHE can experience the thrill of falling in love with the characters. the Mothers have had their turns at that. They need us to remind them "Honey, I know you love him but realize that "he" isn't real" The actors name is not Edward/Jacob/Emmit or whatever it is (insert name of generic boy-toy) and it is his job to play that role.

4. Can you think of a similar movie/book when you were a young adult?
I am not the best one to ask I guess, I've never really went for the fluff. I like horror movies, and thrillers.

I would make a judgement call based on the maturaty of your child whether or not the series is appropriate. Same with the movies. But please don't let them really think relationships are like this! I am so sick of all the cinderella romances. Marriage and relationships are hard work. Maybe it's just my life but there are days I hate myself let alone my partner. We get through it together and I know better days will come. Too many young girls have completely false ideas of what marriage/ love should be. Thus the reason so many divorce within the first few years anymore. When they realize he's not prince charming they want to storm back to mom and dad's castle. And it is so very hard to explain to her that she's no Cinderella herself.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2010 at 2:17PM
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My 12 year old has read them. She got a little crazy with it. But reading is good!

She has seen all the movies. Nothing about sex more about love. I did not find anything wrong with them.

I would only say do not let them get obessed with it. My 12 year old has a friend that eats and sleep Twlight. I dont go for that!

I was a VC Andrews fan. But the fact that she is wanting to read is important also.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2010 at 5:42PM
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1. At what age is this book appropriate? teen age or older depending on maturity

2. At what age is the book/movie themed makeup appropriate?
I am not sure what hte make-up looks like...

  1. Do you think it's ok to be "in love/lust" with one of the main characters along with your child?
    I think it is ok for teenage girls to have a crush on movie stars

4. Can you think of a similar movie/book when you were a young adult? I read worse when I was a kid....I read that one book by Judy Blume called Forever. I remember sitting in my family room reading it with my parents nearby and feeling sneaky because they did not know what it was really about.

I read the 4 books in the Twilight Saga and really the only one I am iffy about is the last one because it refers to them having sex.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2010 at 6:15PM
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Hmmm...well I have a boy so I'll start with that caveat.

1. Age appropriate: 13-14?
2. Make-up - I didn't wear make-up until high school and that was pretty limited. Movie themed sounds like it's fun not too serious or sexy
3. In love/lust along with your daughter? My mother and I never shared crushes although she had singers of her generation she thought were sexy and said so. She never expressed opinions on the stars I liked other than to not get carried away or put up posters in my wallpapered bedroom! Seems to me it wouldn't hurt if a mom said she thought the actors was good looking which they are but having a crush in common doesn't sound healthy.
4. I've only seen the first movie and have not read the books so I can't compare them to what I used to read. The movie was fun to watch because the guys are cute although the Bella character really got on my nerves. I would not want a young girl to look up to her at all other than for her celibacy and it was the vampire boyfriend who was really maintaining that in the first movie. She seemed so weak to me and the high school vampire was so take charge I really wondered if what young girls would think of that kind of relationship.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2010 at 1:57PM
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LOL Sandstone. I didn't ask because I think this book is a good idea. I think they are entertainment on the lowest possible level. And I would never drool over a man under the age of 25. Even Ashton Kutcher (sp?) is too young for me to be interested in and he's my age!

I'm asking because I have a Twilight fiend in my life and I think it's highly inappropriate for someone three years away from teenhood but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it except try to show the child better literature. I attempted with some age-appropriate books (Wrinkle in Time, etc.) but I think, unfortunately, once a young girl gets a "taste" so to speak, of the lust and sexy behaviors exhibited in these books.... well... those pre-teen adventure stories I loved so much just aren't that interesting.

I read Forever too Mom2emall... Judy Blume does talk about some racy stuff but it's all REAL stuff. I wouldn't mind my pre-teen reading Judy Blume. I agree that teen-age or older is a good benchmark. I just can't see why a mother would encourage her young, pre-pubescent LITTLE GIRL to read these books, have all the products and develop crushes on the actors. Once you hit 12-13, ok, I get it. But maybe girls just develop faster these days?

    Bookmark   January 15, 2010 at 2:03PM
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if your DD is intelligent girl exposed to good tasteful things including true literature, her fascination with Twilight will go away. I wouldn't worry about it. Why some mom encourage their girls to read it...many people have poor unsophisticated tastes, so how and why would they teach their children differently?

    Bookmark   January 15, 2010 at 9:29PM
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Silversword, is it possible that the mom encourages the girl to be interested in this series because it is harder reading material and she wants her daughter to read more?

Some people had a problem with the Goosebumps series books, but I allowed my ds to read them because I was just happy to get him reading!

I think that some imagination is fine. We allow little girls to like princesses and fairies, but we expect them to know they are not going to grow up to be one. We allow little boys to watch movies with talking cars and fish, but we expect them to realize that it is not real life. So I don't see much difference in allowing pre-teens to watch or read vampire type things and just expect that they know it is not real. Having crushes is a part of adolesence. And honestly I would much rather my sd's have crushes on movie stars then boys in their school! Movie stars are unatainable at least :)

Plus the one positive I see in the Twilight Saga is that Bella and Edward do not sleep together till they are married!

    Bookmark   January 15, 2010 at 10:56PM
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I don't think the mom pushed the book on her, she just encourages the fascination (buys her the hardcover copies of all the books, etc).

I don't know what I think about getting kids to read more/more difficult material. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned. I think those books are trash and while I wouldn't forbid my dd to read them (that which is forbidden and all!) I am working quite strongly to get her interested in what I consider to be healthy subjects (animals, science, humor, etc). I think Roald Dahl is fabulous for "harder" literature for kids. I didn't get a lot of his humor until I was an adult. There are so many layers in his writing that his books can be re-read many times and the reader gets something new each time. I agree imagination is a good thing. But I've read portions of these books and the sexual violence is not appealing to me at all.That's not the sort of thing I think is necessary for a healthy imagination (for girls under 14).

Here are some titles I have read, and I think are APPROPRIATE for pre-teen girls:

The Witch of Blackbird Pond
Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret (and all of Judy Blume)
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Anne of Green Gables, and Emily of New Moon
Black Beauty
The Borrowers
CharlotteÂs Web
Great Expectations
Harriet the Spy
Island of the Blue Dolphins
Little House on the Prairie series
The Little Princess
Little Women / JoÂs Boys by Louisa May Alcott
The Mists of Avalon
Nancy Drew series
National Velvet
The Phantom Tollbooth
Pippi Longstocking
The Secret Garden
A Tree Grows in Brooklyn
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
Wuthering Heights
A Wrinkle in Time

I guess my point is... If a girl reads Twilight books, and has these sorts of images in her head at EIGHT - TEN years of age... what's left for age 13-15?

I think under age 10 a child should be allowed/encouraged to be a child. And that goes for clothes too..No child-sized high heels for going out for Suri Cruise, those should be used in the playroom. Same with makeup, fine for dress-up, not for going out. I don't think I'm a prude it just makes me sad that little girls are vamping (pun intended!) it up while still in single-digit age in years. Sad.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2010 at 12:03PM
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Great list!

how about Tom Sawyer? anything of Rhoald Dhal (sp?), Robert Stevenson, Jules Verne, Jack London-Call of the Wild and other age appropriate stories, Karlson-on the Roof (or anything else of Astrid Lindgren). Funny I can even read it now. These books are so good...Shame if people want their children to read Twlight instead. Sigh...

    Bookmark   January 19, 2010 at 2:04PM
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*smile* Matilda (by Roald Dahl) is on the list. He is a creative genius, and I absolutely cannot get enough of his work. Did you ever read Danny the Champion of the World?

I completely completely completely agree with you FD! I could re-read any of those books now and they'd be just as good if not better than the first time. What about the "Shoes" series? Dancing Shoes, Skating Shoes, etc? I remember really liking those books.

Bridge to Terabithia... pure bliss. Anything by Lois Lowry or E. L. Konigsburg. I read "From the Mixed Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler" again the other day and LOVED it.

Introducing and encouraging young children to read "harmless" drivel like Twilight shows a disgusting lack of imagination, IMO.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2010 at 3:44PM
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unfortunately though, a lot of those are not the fun books to read anymore. I have read and own almost all of those books and more on the list and have tried to encourage the kids to read them... many many many fell to way side. Roald Dhal is one of the few authors I have gotten them to choke down... James and the Giant Peach (promise of watching the movie after) connecting JGP to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (and the promise of watching the movie) Others though even with the promise of a movie were to much... they lost interest.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2010 at 4:04PM
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"I read "From the Mixed Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler" again the other day and LOVED it."

That was fabulous!
Anyone remember Harriet the Spy ?
Or The Faraway Lurs ?

    Bookmark   January 19, 2010 at 4:04PM
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I don't think reading about or watching movies about these types of boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are appropriate for kids under 14.

I agree that these particular books are more wholesome, but why open the door to something worse? Vampire stories, in general, tend to be very sexual and often involve drug use. Maybe the next vampire book she picks up is Queen of the Damned or something else.

When SD was 9, she wanted us to rent Coach Carter. She said she had seen it with BM. I was MORTIFIED! One of the storylines is teen pregnancy and it ends with an abortion. There were numerous party scenes with very sexual dancing and touching. I was embarassed to even be watching it in her presence.

I think that a lot of parents let their kids see these movies and read these books because they want to do it themselves.

Honestly, I tried to watch "grown-up" shows and listen to "grown-up" songs. But it became too hard to keep it away from DS. So now, if DS can't watch it or listen to it, it doesn't even come on.

We were in the car flipping channels on the radio and that Britney Spears song "3" came on. DS started singing it! I was like "where did you hear that???" He said "Aunt A--- listens to it". Can you imagine a 10 year old walking around singing about a 3-some and how it's not wrong and it's the "in" thing to do??? I was so angry with my sister!

    Bookmark   January 19, 2010 at 5:49PM
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How about Madeline books? anyone read those? DD has Madeline doll. :)

there are two fun books that i doubt were translated to English, maybe they Maria Kruger, two books about this little girl Carolinka, they are so full of imagination, my brother and i were crazy about them! I still have these books, they are so old...Anyone heard of them? I think she only wrote two books.

The other one is Tove Jansson: Moomin series. DD still collects his books (and she is 22 LOL), good stuff.

I see silverswood you mentioned Dahl, i didn't notice beginning of your post

    Bookmark   January 19, 2010 at 6:27PM
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hahaha SD11 singing along with some stupid song all I heard her say is "brushing my teeth with jack" ... I don't know who sings it or what the rest of it is ... I heard that part told her not to listen to here "my mom lets me" ... I said well listen to it with her ...SS12 says "no she doesn't".

    Bookmark   January 19, 2010 at 7:40PM
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Ashley, That's pretty much what I'm thinking. Not that we should burn Twilight (or rub garlic on it!) but that it's not appropriate for pre-teens. I was in the car with a friend the other day and her son (age 9) was in the backseat singing "...I know, she looks like a prostitute or something..." I mildly pointed this out to mom, who whipped around and asked where he heard that. The answer? "From Baby's got Back that you always play mom." LOL. Whoops.

My cousin's favorite movie when we were kids was Dirty Dancing. I was 15, she was 9, I remember wondering what the heck her mom was thinking. And that movie is M I L D in comparison.

Fine, I love Madeline, as does my DD. I've never heard of the other books you mentioned.

I don't think I'm a prude... I just want the little girls in my life to have a childhood, some fantasy play that involves horses and fairies and fun before they are bombarded with sex and sexy and looking good. Where are the rag-tag gap-toothed sticks-in-her-hair girls? Why are we encouraging our young young daughters to even consider thinking about/reading about sex at 8-13?

    Bookmark   January 20, 2010 at 10:40AM
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* side note... had to look up the 3 song... ridiculous lyrics, singing to the lowest common denominator. "Peter, Paul and Mary"? WTF? If it weren't so stupid it would be hysterical.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2010 at 10:52AM
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@Silversword - LMAO! I know! It's such a stupid song, but the thought of it getting stuck in my son's head and some teacher hearing him singing it out loud mortifies me!

And I agree with you...I'm not a prude, but there needs to be balance between taking kids' innocence away too young and making them naieve.

There is no reason a 10 year old girl should think she's too old for Barbies, but do you see many 10 year olds playing with Barbies anymore? I still played with Barbies at 10 (and My Little Ponies and Strawberry Shortcake). And look at those skanky Barbies they have out now! They look like hookers!

@Pseudo - One day I was driving behind a truck full of pee wee football players. They were MAYBE 10 years old. They were singing "Wanna be a balla....shot caller...20-inch blades on the Impala...a caller, gettin laid tonight...Swisher rolled tight, gotta sprayed by Ike". It was shocking to hear those words coming out of such innocent-looking boys. BTW, what does "gotta sprayed by Ike" mean? (guess I'm not as hip as I thought I was).

    Bookmark   January 20, 2010 at 11:22AM
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Ashley... I think it's "sprayed by ICE". My understanding is that his marijuana cigarette is rolled within a cigar and either (a) the blunt is also coated with white substance of some sort or (b) he is copiously adorned by diamonds (ice). LOL. Either way, I don't think those lyrics are appropriate at all for the under teen set (or anyone for that matter, but this stuff called "music" these days is stretching the bounds of the definition. What happened to REAL music, as in... melodies... actual thought provoking lyrics... musicians who have a great VOICE (not style/body/face/etc)? Whatever.

I don't know. I stopped playing with "dolls" (barbie/ML Pony etc) in 6th grade.

Like you said, "...there needs to be balance between taking kids' innocence away too young and making them naieve..."

    Bookmark   January 20, 2010 at 1:15PM
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I never played with Barbies and never even owned one. And that is one rule I actually agree with my SM on. I detest the "ideal" image of a womans physique Barbie has given generations of women.

ITA, Silver. "want the little girls in my life to have a childhood, some fantasy play that involves horses and fairies and fun before they are bombarded with sex and sexy and looking good. Where are the rag-tag gap-toothed sticks-in-her-hair girls? Why are we encouraging our young young daughters to even consider thinking about/reading about sex at 8-13? "

    Bookmark   January 20, 2010 at 1:31PM
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it is too good to miss it, look them up, your DD will love them, i think there are like 8-9 books total and comics

    Bookmark   January 20, 2010 at 2:09PM
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I read The Babysitters Club series. All bajillion of them! LOL! Great books for preteens! Good message too about the consequences of bad choices.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2010 at 5:00PM
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Thanks FD, I ordered them from the library. The characters look familiar to me, I'm thinking I've read some of them before.

Ashley, I read BSC too, all of 'em! Absolutely fabulous books at the time. I remember that one girl (Stephanie?) had diabetes before that was really so common in young adults. That fascinated me.

Nivea, my mom ABHORRED Barbie. Kind of like I really really really dislike Bratz. Thank goodness my DD isn't much interested in either. I played with Barbies in part because they were forbidden... but I preferred this one kind of doll. They were like She-Ra style dolls, warrior dolls, with wrist shields and high boots and they were little enough to ride on the ML Ponies. Problem with Barbie is... what on Earth is there to do with them besides shopping? I liked the potential for adventure with the other dolls.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2010 at 1:45PM
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I don't mind Barbie as long as it is not an obsession. DD had few of them but she eventually twisted their heads off, she had no feelings for Barbies. lol she played with stuffed animals the most. she still has 2 old favorites with her in college, they are called Mr. Bear and Mr. Dog. I think they are a couple, they look like they are. hahahah they sit on a bed always look like they are hugging. haha

    Bookmark   January 21, 2010 at 9:09PM
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I am a Barbie fan and mine could do anything!! They kung fu fought and on multiple occasions accompanied my brother's GI Joes and He-Man to faraway lands on super secret missions in order to help protect the innocents of the world from tyrannical forces. Of course, at the time we had no idea what tyrannical meant and assumed we were fighting dinosaurs - but that was fun too!! Not only could my Barbie accidentally lose an arm to some prehistoric beast during the day, she looked spectacular at the dance party she hosted in the evening, despite any missing appendages.

Personally I think it's the role models in children's lives that effect them the most, not the toys they are or are not introduced to.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2010 at 10:22PM
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I agree with lonepiper... my barbies joined forces with Shera princess of power and the ninja turtles to fight bad guys. Barbies mansion was our secret layout that we broke the door to be able to drive the car straight through like it was breaking out of the bat cave or something. It is all in the imagination.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2010 at 11:01PM
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"I don't think I'm a prude it just makes me sad that little girls are vamping (pun intended!) it up while still in single-digit age in years. Sad"

My mouth fell open the other day in Babies R Us. They make a silver shimmering pant (thinking disco days) for infant girls. They have skull & crossbones wear (thinking biker baby)... WTH??? Do parents really buy that stuff??? Do they think it's cute???? I just don't get it but I thought it was bad enough when I saw mini skirts for 3 year olds.

Sorry, I haven't read the twilight books and my daughter never got into crushes or wanting to wear make up... she's 20 now & still doesn't wear make up unless she is going out with her friends... then, it's just a touch. My niece is obsessed with twilight... but she's 23, married with 2 kids. I don't get how she has time to read a book... lol

I think love/romance type books shouldn't be given to kids until they are in puberty... I think make up should not be allowed until they have a reason to wear it.. ie, school dance... maybe in high school, as long as it's not trampy looking. That has been my measurement of too much, if you look trampy, it's too much. Wanting to look/act older has it's consequences when it draws the attention of older boys and these young girls don't know how to handle it... they can get into situations they are not ready for.

When SD10 was in 3rd grade, the principal called me & DH in because SD was trying to arrange sex with a 2nd grade boy... this was after she had sat on a 7th grade boys lap & was trying to hug & kiss him earlier in the year. Her mother has placed a high value on being hott & sexy... having a man, dressing cool... and the price is that her daughter is putting herself in a dangerous place and not really aware of what it really means. For that reason, I think that with every child, the answer as to what age this or that is appropriate, depend on the child and how the child thinks or acts. What was not a big deal with my daughter is a different ballgame than with my SD.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2010 at 11:34AM
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IMA you wrote:

What was not a big deal with my daughter is a different ballgame than with my SD.

Why do you think it is this way? My DD24 was a bit a priss but never wore anything I found offensive. SD20 went through a goth phase started before me and ended 6 months into my relationship with her dad ... just kept stressing there were better options in clothing for her she was 15 so maybe combination of the two me and her maturing herself ...

But SD11 wears minis in snowstorms tank tops all winter long I know she has clothes I have bought them ... (coming to stay for 5 days no clue what she is going to wear she does not keep any clothes socks underwear here everything I buy she packs up and takes home so I no longer buy anything)

SD11 is obsessed with sex and her body "I'll have sex if I want to its my body" direct quote.... no clue what to say to her ... so I walked away sent mom and dad text messages and let them deal with it.

So again my question is ... is it the age difference? not as much available when our kids were this age ... its the only thing I can think of .... exposed to so much more as earlier and earlier ages ruining childhood. :(

Thinking should we should all disconnect cable and internet and watch PBS till they are 18 :)

    Bookmark   January 27, 2010 at 12:09PM
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I think it's a combination of the personality/disposition a child is born with, along with influences from parents & society. In my SD's case, there is suspected sexual abuse... at least what we know is that her mom had boyfriend sleep over when she was sharing her room with both her girls... SD describes what she saw at very young age. But, mom has also taught her girls (and now her BF's DD) how to dance.. bump & grind style dance, downloads explicit songs to ipod, watches R rated movies, and teaches girls to walk sexy. When she is single, she is on 'man hunts' and buys SD the kind of clothes that I can't believe they make for kids. (a couple of weeks ago, SD's sister came to the door looking like a tramp. Heavy make up & tight clothes, she looked at least 19-20... she's 13 or 14)

LOL, at the same time... BM tells DH how we are unreasonable because we decided that at age 10, she is old enough to wash her own laundry... BM tells DH "She's just a child!" How dare we make her learn to be responsible.

It doesn't help that you can't hardly find normal 'kid' clothes anymore... all low rise & now 'skinny' jeans. The music and even cartoons are all adult oriented... innuendos and outright smut. (even Disney has had a few questionable things in their more recent movies) I've tried & I can't find hardly anything decent on tv.. maybe TVland. I used to record Little House & I love Lucy. SD complained, now she watches TV at her moms. At our house, she can read a book... and it won't be twilight. lol

    Bookmark   January 27, 2010 at 1:24PM
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personally, I think it has very little to do with clothes, make up, tv or any of the above and everything to do with the values being instilled in the kid.

My girls arent sexed up or vamped up but they do happen to have make up, skinny jeans, and even watch the occasional pg 13 movie at 7 and 8. Oh, and DD7 had the most adorable pink and black bathing suit with skulls and cross bones and sd 8 had a really adorable pair of tights that went under a jean skirt with skulls and cross bones. The difference is that I dont make a big deal out of the sexualization of these things. Skinny jeans are worn with your tall fuzzy boots so they can tuck inside... make up is worn to enhance your features not cover your face (although they only play with make up at this age, there has been an occasional girl outing when they were allowed to wear some eyeshadow or lip gloss). PG 13 is okay depending on what is in the movie. It matters way more if the parent is talking to the kid and reinforcing the positive values rather then just putting the kabosh on it all.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2010 at 2:19PM
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You may not make a big deal out of the sexualization of those things... but if the child is dressing in sexualizing clothes, older guys or men or pedophiles will take notice.

I wasn't saying that they are going to be sluts if they dress that way, but the truth is, they are putting out there an image and when the image of what they represent doesn't match who they are inside, they won't be taken seriously.

Just yesterday, I happened to see an older lady in a professional setting, wearing 'goth' clothes. I'm sure she thought she looked cool or hip, she looked ridiculous and she's an adult.

I'd agree that some kids can dress that way, watch tv shows/movies, etc. with no adverse effect because they have strong positive values taught to them and instilled/reinforced/modeled to them and it does matter how they are parented.... but don't underestimate peer pressure and societal influences.... many good parents shake their heads wondering how their kids ended up making back choices. My perspective (and to each his/her own) is that WHY ENCOURAGE kids to grow up faster than they already do???

and when I see a little girl with tight jeans & fuzzy boots up to her thigh... looking like a streetwalker, I don't care if she's a straight A student with the highest morals, as a stranger in the store... I don't know that, she looks trashy.. not cute IMO. Nobody may care what a stranger in the store thinks, but that is the image that is out there. I would not want that for my daughter... I'm entitled to think it's not adorable to dress a little girl that way. Of course, I think stage parents that put kids in pageants with the sexy hairdo's and heavy make up are borderline abusive... of course I am basing that on the stupid tv shows that glamorize that. Like I said, to each their own.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2010 at 3:06PM
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Wow, Mom of 4, I could have written your post!! My youngest stepdaughter went through a goth phase and I encouraged her to express herself. She received some odd looks (quite a few of them at church!!), however, I didn't see any permanent harm in it and, as it turns out, it lasted only 6 months or so... However, we do NOT let them wear clothing that is too revealing although my idea of revealing (too short shorts, low cut shirts) would probably differ with many others as skin tight shirts (that include 18 layered tank tops underneath) and skinny, low rise jeans are everyday outfits for my stepdaughters. They get many perks (i.e., makeup, dyed hair (my youngest currently has a pink peek-a-boo) and scary sounding piercings in their ears with names like "industrial"!) but they must earn those perks (FANTASTIC grades are required, an all-around good attitude, being responsible, etc.) and if those expectations are not met, then their perks will cease. I admit that I probably let them have a few too many liberties, but I feel that now is the time they should do stupid things like have pink hair because just around the corner will be college, a career and then kids of their own... They'll have the rest of their lives to conform to society and become de-individualized.

I also admit that my infant son wears many skull and cross bone shirts (and a few pairs of shoes that bear them too)!! The skulls usually have sweet friendly smiles and a few of them have "born to be wild" written on them! I much prefer them to cars, trucks and footballs which I find dreadfully boring!!

    Bookmark   January 27, 2010 at 11:54PM
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I think pink hair is a far cry from Twilight. I actually watched the movie the other night (it was on TV as I was flipping channels) and I can understand why little girls like it. Very poorly written, the actors are pitiful and the dialogue is extremely boring... but the main girl Bella isn't cute (so she's nonthreatening) and the guy is very strong and protective. She gets to be sexual without having sex. It's safe.

That said, I will never let my pre-teen watch it.

Skinny jeans? I dunno. I tend to think as long as the child is covered up, it's all good. You can tuck slim jeans into boots too, without them being bathtub shrunk. Piercings, tattoos,,,, IMO a parent should wait on those things. Many piercings aren't easily reversed, like those giant hole ones. And tattoos are forever. I let my DD put on the fake ones all the time, and I'd let her temporarily dye her hair when she gets a little older (school doesn't allow it).

Experimenting with fashion is a whole different ball game than Twilight.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2010 at 12:18PM
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I think if your children are intelligent human beings (and parents can do things to make sure their children are raised this way)then it is OK to experiment with fashion or try different type of clothes.

As about skinny jeans....DD22 wears skinny jeans. She is not trampy (far from it), is not into looks that much, she goes to college full time and works many hours, and then most of her free time she and her SO do nerdy stuff LOL-well by my standards good stuff but my some standards probably nerdy, but jeans are skinny, probably too skinny. Oh well...

I think girls/women can wear baggy jeans and still be trampy or plain dumb. I don't think it is about clothes or make up that much. it is about what's important.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2010 at 1:53PM
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I think the giant holes are called gauges and they are permanent. I would not allow my stepdaughters to do anything that is permanent (including tatoos). Once they turn 18 and have graduated from high school, then the choice is their's, however, I do advocate that they don't do anything permanent to themselves physically.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2010 at 9:49PM
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