Please Approve My Layout Before I Place The Order

dad4diyMay 18, 2013

Hello All,
This is my "final" layout I hope. I have gained a lot of ideas and insight into my design from all of you. This is much appreciated because we are trying to be our own GC and avoid a lot of design costs. We might still hire a CKD to approve our design as well. My original design kept the desk and the corner range that exists now in my kitchen. I was gently persuaded to abandon both and I LOVE the aesthetics of the new layout.

Before I sign the final contract, do you see any other tweaks I could make?

Our last big question is whether or not the extended island and the NEW coffee bar will squeeze the eat-in table area of the kitchen. We have a fairly open space now and don't want to "ruin" that with a too-cramped design.


Existing Kitchen

Proposed Changes

Range Wall

Sink Wall


Coffee Bar With Open Shelving Above

Pantry and Fridge Recessed Areas

Pantry and Oven Column Layout

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Sophie Wheeler

You have a lot of non standard sized cabinets. Are you spending the money for custom cabinets? Or are you wanting to save a bit of money and choose standard sizes and go with semi-custom cabinets? And I don't know of any maker of trash inserts that will work with a 14" cabinet. 15", yes. 14", no. Also, I think that 11" next to the sink is wasted as trash when you also have a trash on the island. Do a pull out pantry there instead. But again, that's an odd size that doesn't work with standardized inserts.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 11:51AM
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Cabinet/cupboard widths and depths are usually, unless as noted above you are going completely custom, in increments of 3".

So things like 14" deep uppers are either custom or you go 12" (standard) or 15" (more money) depths.

So for example - your sink wall is full of non-standard sizes:
32" cabinet , 11" trash(in a 13" base) , 36" sink base , 6" rev-shelf, 32" cabinet. To begin with that 6" revshelf will probably leave you with about 4" of usable inside space and I would get rid of it and add the inches to the other cabinets to get to standard sizes. I know your trying to make your wall symmetrical so this will take some work. I haven't checked your other walls.

I apologize if I am off base here..

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 12:33PM
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michey1st_gw Zone 7

I'm no layout expert, but have you thought about utilizing the existing window seat as part of your table seating? Add a bench against the wall perpendicularly (where the coffee bar currently is), then move the coffee bar to the wall on the other side of the family room doorway (in the bottom right corner of your layout). That way, people can be sitting and the coffee bar is still completely accessible.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 12:39PM
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I have a Rev-a-Shelf pull-out trash in a 13 3/4" cabinet. It's the type that is suspended from the top and it has a full-size container. It's #RV 4WCTM-1516DM-1.

Here is a link that might be useful: trash pull-out

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 12:45PM
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I should have stated that I am going completely custom inset because of the odd sizes that I have. Because we have to keep the sink centered on the kitchen window and want to have symmetry on the range wall, semi-custom cabinets were too expensive with all of the up-charges for size adjustments. Our custom quotes were quite a bit less than the semi-custom lines we looked at.

The trash pullout I found only requires an 11" opening, so we decided to split the trash and the recycling into single openings. The trash will be right by the sink and the recycling will be in the island.

I agree that the little 6" space to the right of the DW might just have to get absorbed into the adjoining cabinets.

Moving the coffee bar to the other corner of the room is intriguing. I will tape this out and see how it affects traffic flow between rooms.

Thanks for the rapid responses.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 1:01PM
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I think a trash next to the sink and in the island makes perfect sense. Those are two areas that prep will happen, not to mention, you need a trash next to the sink for scraping plates.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 1:09PM
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I'll let the pros chime in, but I'm surprised no one mentioned the clearances around the table that you pointed out. There are a number of pinch points on the end and it will make it seem cramped and crowded. (As drawn, there is only 16 12 to 17 inches of clearance after accounting for a counter overhang) Perhaps you could move the bar to the other end? Or shift the table down, inverting the side with the leaf and leaving the larger aisle to the top of the diagram. You could also put down a small coffee table or something in front of the bench and make it a cozy reading nook.

If you have not done so already, put some mockups using cardboard boxes or at least tape marks on the floor, so you can see if you are satisfied with this placement.

I would also steal two more inches between the sink and the island, making this a true 42" wide. I see you have 42" from counter to counter, minus whatever edge treatment you select, you could end up with less than 40". That starts to begin to feel tight.

This post was edited by gooster on Sat, May 18, 13 at 13:15

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 1:11PM
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I am no layout expert either, but I want to say I love your plan. It seems like it's going to be a really charming, pretty kitchen. Love the window seat, the open shelving in the coffee center, the little laptop/desk area, the drip rail under the sink.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 1:16PM
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Regarding cramping the table space, I agree with the others who addressed it. I have almost the exact same situation with counter, rectangular bay and table and chairs as your diagram. My kitchen is smaller, and I needed every inch and did it with my eyes open, but access to the bay feels cramped. The table area looks small in proportion to the rest of the kitchen, more cramped than I would like.

Do you really, really need all that extra counter space on the clean-up side of the sink? I'd stop that counter where it does now because it works well for you.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 4:28PM
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I have no advise about your new kitchen but wanted to say I really like your current kitchen. I hope you are able to salvage it and it finds a new home.

Good luck with your project.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 6:44PM
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Regarding moving the coffee bar to the other wall, I realized that we have a high and low cold air return on that wall. Has anyone dealt with this before? Can the underside of a cabinet (toe-kick) be used as a cold air return?

debrak, the cabinets may look suitable in the pictures, but they are 25 years old and many of the doors are very worn and some are even in need of reinforcement. We do have a local Habitat Restore that is going to take the cabinets and the granite. Hopefully someone can find a good use for them!

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 8:29PM
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dad4diy: my GC was able to run toe-kick vents under my cabinets. You should be able to move the bar there. It will create a much better spacing around your table.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2013 at 8:46PM
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Now this may be way off base given everything "nonstandard" or "wrong" in my house, but flipping those returns to the other room may be as simple as cutting a hole for the grill. Worth asking about.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 10:21AM
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You can certainly move those vents. We did easily. I would not want the cold air return under a cabinet. It would be a dust magnet.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 10:44AM
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Thanks for the suggestions guys, but we have built-in bookcases on the other side of those walls. Moving the cold air returns would not be possible. But using the under-cabinet space for one and painting the upper to match the wall color might work.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 12:58PM
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I was thinking along the same lines as Mickey1st. USe window seat for table seating and move coffee bar.

    Bookmark   May 19, 2013 at 1:32PM
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