Stripper Pole in Basement???

love2weedJuly 12, 2008

Last night I attended our local home show (Homerama) for the preview night. There were eleven homes on display and prices were in the 700K+ price range. One of the homes, which was very modern in design had a dance floor complete with a stripper pole. How crazy is this? Nursery on the upper level and stripper pole in the basement--go figure.

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i don't see the problem. some people like to dance and pole dancing is a legitimate style. doesn't necessarily mean they are stripping and so what if they are? having a child doesn't retire one's sexuality.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 4:04PM
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LOL, love2weed!! If you think about it, the effects of one probably necessitates the other! ;)

I remember a few years back there was a trend of homeowners installing stripper poles in their bedrooms--um, more like with celebrities. Goldie Hawn had one put in; I can't remember who the others were.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 4:42PM
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Pamela Anderson.

Maybe the stripper pole is really a support pole disguised as a stripper pole. Someone thought, "How can we make this ugly pole kinda kicky and fun? Oh, I know...! Yeah, and the basement will be the dance floor! No one will ever notice it's a support pole in a dark depressing basement."

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 5:27PM
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well, how else would they be able to afford a 700k+ home?! :)

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 5:42PM
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Somehow I think I missed the home's owner posting here with the question, "Will this basement hurt my resale value?" (Probably one of the most-asked questions here!)


And while pole dancing may very well be a legitimate style, and people can do what they want to do, puleeeze: The pole ain't no square-dancing implement!

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 5:45PM
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Pole dancing has for some time been touted as a good way to exercise. Classes are available and perhaps it's as legitimate a form of exercise as many others for some people.

Not IMO a great selling feature but could be for others.;)

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 7:12PM
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There is a neighborhood nearby that has 700+ homes and the owner of one of the homes was arrested for prostitution. The house is now up for sale...maybe that's where the homeshow got it's idea!

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 8:32PM
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LOL! I take classes and I have a pole. Sounds like my kind of basement!

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 8:47PM
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I love it! I'll never have a stripper's body but I think it's a fun addition to someone's house. What a conversation piece--and really, I love houses with personality--even if it's not my taste.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 9:51PM
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Hmmm, what do you tell the kids???

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 10:01PM
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My pole isn't permanent - it's a tension pole that collapses and can be put away. I don't know what I would tell my kids or other people, for that matter!! It's something fun that I love doing, but not something I think I would want everyone to know I do. But that's just me!

    Bookmark   July 12, 2008 at 10:58PM
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I don't think it is a big deal for a homeowner to have a pole - for whatever purpose - but it does seem odd to have in a home for "showing."

    Bookmark   July 13, 2008 at 1:11AM
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To each his own of course. As a seller, you would have to realize that there are a certain amount of people who are going to be offended. Here in the bible belt you would automatically exclude a tremendous amount of buyers. I'd rather sell the house than make a statement.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2008 at 8:19AM
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Our basement has a support pole close to where we chose to place our bar. As moving it was impractical, we painted it silver to become part of the theme. In our case, I can't imagine the pole being a detriment to home-value. If a prospective doesn't like the pole then there will be many additional negatives for their taste.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2008 at 9:19AM
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Oh yeah.

Fitness is a big part of my life and I work with a trainer regularly. They offer pole classes along with the regular boxing, spinning, pilates etc...

You'd be suprised just how much upper body strength it takes to invert and do all that.

I also had a great friend that danced her way thru school. She always had the sickest body. Her arms were amazing...Now she's getting her masters in sociology. :)

Or maybe it's just there for the Mr. & Mrs. to have some fun together.

There's always going to be something that offends people in your home. Now a pole wouldn't faze me but, I'd be totally offended by toile wallpaper,lol. ;o)

    Bookmark   July 13, 2008 at 2:32PM
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I'd probably just hurt myself! LOL

    Bookmark   July 13, 2008 at 7:22PM
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After discussing the "stripper pole" house today during dinner, my SIL said all he could think of was what Chris Rock said during an interview:

"Sometimes I am walking with my daughter, I'm talking to my daughter, I'm looking at her, I'm pushing her in the stroller. And sometimes I pick her up and I just stare at her and I realize my only job in life is to keep her off the pole.

"Keep my baby off the pole!

"I mean they don't grade fathers but if your daughter is a stripper you f*&$#@ up." Chris Rock standup via YouTube.

I really am not a prude, but let's face it, the only thing you can do with that pole has sexual overtones. I am a kindergarten teacher and I play music quite frequently in my class and you would not believe how sexual some of these little girls are dancing to children's music. I'm talking grinding and hunching. I got to the point that I wouldn't let them stand up and dance anymore. We had a birthday party for my grandson in May. We had a karaoke machine going. One of the mothers was letting her four year old karaoke to a very mature sex driven song. Just not appropriate for a small child. I have no problem with this music, but you have to be responsible as a parent and not play that music around your small children.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2008 at 7:29PM
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This is an interesting thread! Just wondering how many people would exclude a house for purchase merely because there was a pole which may have been used as an exercise pole? Guess those people would also exclude a home which had anything that looked like a bar. Or any homes that may have religious symbols other than those belonging to their own "brand" of religion. Sounds extreme to me. We've bot homes which could have previously been inhabited by all or any types of people. Once they moved out and it was mine it made no difference to me what they might have done in that house.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2008 at 11:12PM
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While I don't agree that the only things you can do with a pole are sexual in nature, I do agree that these little girl dance teams are way over sexualized. My son played basketball in highschool and a couple of times each season during half time they would have a group of cute little girls out on the court bumping and grinding, dancing along to Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera. I was horrified at how blatant they were. Of course the little girls didn't understand what they were doing. I couldn't believe that their parents approved of the type of dancing they were doing.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2008 at 11:36PM
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High school kids are not "little girls"! Your worried about the the dances the kids do at school sponsored games? Go to a club where the high school kids actually hang out that's the way they dance now!

As for poles or no poles. It's a great marketing tool, if you have to have a pole for structural support, why not call it a "stipper pole"? They are used for exercise and tons of things. Maybe not in the bible belt, but most places it would add to the value of the home! Or at least not deter from it.

    Bookmark   July 13, 2008 at 11:58PM
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Earlier this week I walked in to pick up my sons from sports camp. DS2's counselor is an adorable blonde, really great with kids. I'd been thinking of asking her whether she babysits, when suddenly, joking with the kids, she did this quick pelvis-and-bustline-thrust move. I laughed and said, trying to sound both like I was joking (for DS) and serious (for her), "X, what are you doing?!" She looked very embarrassed and said, "It's a dance move." Yeah, I thought, a *hootchie* dance move, and DS is 4!

As in some of the earlier posts, DS had no idea what was going on, of course. But Counselor X did, and she was abashed (either that, or she thinks I'm a total prude and is just uptight around me now. So much for the babysitting.).

And the pole: what happens in the basement, stays in the basement... until it moves into the nursery!

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 12:11AM
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No, I'm talking about a dance team of 4 - 8 year olds that comes in for a special performance during half time. Not the high school dance team. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 12:18AM
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Here's a pic of the actual pole:

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 12:19AM
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I'm finding this thread fascinating as well. My 6-year-old wants to take a hip-hop class and likes to sing to pop songs on the radio. I love it that she is so lively and enjoy song and dance as I know in a few years she'll get more self conscious. It's a shame that adult attitudes about sex can color what are otherwise, innoncent, wholesome interests. A la the don't breastfeed in public because some see that as "indecent exposure." As for the pole, I know what my DD would do with it--and that would be to swing round and round and round--just like I did as a child. Ever wonder when you go to a hotel who has done what on the bed you are sleeping on?

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 12:22AM
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As a wife of 42 years, a Mother, and a Grandmother I deplore what has been taking place in the media for many years now. Many children are no longer allowed to be children for very long, they are encouraged to be little adults in too many ways. Busy parents are often not aware of what the result of this will be. Too much permissiveness and not enough supervision will not have a good result.

I do think that what we were talking about originally, pole dancing, if done by an adult in the privacy of their home is not necessarily harmful or e_vil. Might be just what is needed for exercise and relaxation.

love2weed - thanks for showing that "exercise" room altho I have to say it would not be a plus for me in buying that house, not because of the pole, but because of the color! The collection of mirrors might redeem it tho, I could use those in at least a couple of other rooms, say above a mantel or in a bathroom!;)

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 1:09AM
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I can understand where your coming from. Its not something you would expect to see when looking at homes. Whether or not I would purchase that home would depend on how hard it would be to remove the pole and redo that area since I wouldn't have any use for it.

I would find it funny though when I first saw the room. I will say this if I were into that it wouldn't be somewhere that other could see it. I think that is just too much information for friends and family to know. LOL

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 5:34AM
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The pole is not in an exercise room, but the main living area of the finished lower level. To the left of the pole is an elaborate bar, complete with seats for viewing the "workout".

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 7:27AM
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Omg love2weed, that's a pic of the actual pole? LMAO It's classic!

I'm using "you" here as generally speaking.

That would be so funny because unless you know what you're doing, you'd look so silly trying to swing on that thing. I can see having friends over and it's be such a hoot (with clothes on).

My son would play fireman for daaays as well.

Hahahah :)

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 8:34AM
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i thought everyone in america had a pole in their basement...even my mother did. silly me, i thought they were there to hold the floor up!! i guess i just wasn't paying attention....

interesting posts about the hoochie kindergartners. for those of you that say it doesn't matter, imagine if 5 year old boys were dancing like chippendales...would that be ok? or if the boys and girls together wanted to "freak" dance at the kindergarten valentines party? just because they're innocent little girls, doesn't mean it's ok to support it..but that's just MHO. in the meantime, i will be hiding that pole in the basement from my kids!!! now that i know what it's really for... kren

ps how can you concentrate on dancing when you know there's a big pile of laundry in the next room?

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 11:06AM
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OK. I'm such an idiot, I wouldn't have even known that was a "stripper" pole. Duh!

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 11:07AM
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It's funny how some of us (me included) say we aren't prudes in defense of our shock or distaste for things that should be hmm, private.
Where has all good taste and privacy gone.
I really am not a prude and totally understand adult things for adult people. But, some things should be kept private and intimate. We have gotten so desensitized to impropriety imo, that we need to explain why we are shocked.
I am also outraged at how young children are exposed to this kind of stuff on a daily basis. You can bet that none of my children know about adult behaviors and the like until they are well into teen years.
We shelter them extensively. I make no apologies for that & based on my older teen & young adult children we will continue just as we have. They are well adjusted, well liked, contributing members of society.

I just don't see the need to flaunt all the private behavior for all to see. So while I would consider a house with "a pole" I would only do so if it could be removed before any of the children ever saw it.

(p.s. to valinsv , I wholeheartedly agree about adult attitudes in regards to sexuality. I think we do color our kids opinions and we can give them a great start by teaching proper privacy and intimacy for things that are adult. Not because they are bad but because my children don't need to know if Daddy & I use a pole or not. )

But, in regards to breastfeeding, it's every woman's right to nourish her baby wherever she needs to.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 3:28PM
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I understand that a "pole workout" could be strenuous and therefore good exercise, but really - when did emulating a stripper become tasteful? Hey, I'll add my "I'm no prude" comment to the others -- I've been to a strip club or two in the past, and personally felt very uncomfortable while there. Say what you will, but I've always felt the entire atmosphere to be degrading and skeevy, no matter how "upscale" the place purported itself to be. And sure, what two consenting adults choose to do in the privacy of their own home is anything but my concern, but I keep coming back to the question: Why would a woman want to emulate a stripper?
Just my $.02.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 3:47PM
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My instinct with a support pole would be to build a box column around it. It certainly wouldn't be to turn into into a dance pole.

Adding my $.02, as the mother of a 4 year old girl who keeps asking when she can wear makeup and nail polish and earrings like all of her little friends, the amount of trampy stuff put out there for young girls is really disturbing. Bratz dolls with their lip liner and attitude have even infected Barbies now. There are also those "tween" stores that specialize in tramp clothes and makeup for small girls. Saw a Pop Warner cheerleading group of YOUNG girls a few months back that included a bit where they turned around and flipped their skirts up, showing the audience their undershorts cover things ... Enough already.

My 4 year old is counting the days until she's 14 when I will let her wear makeup (14 was a compromise with DH who told her she had to be 30, LOL). Poor thing. We intend to keep her locked in the tower until it's time to go off to college, hahaha.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 4:02PM
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I just wanted to clarify my comments. I'm rasing both a 6-year-old DD and 13-year-old DD--both go to a Catholic school and I consider them pretty "sheltered" overall. The 6-year-old picks up a lot from her older sister and definitely has listened to more pop music and seen older TV shows than her sister did at the same age. Older DD is passionate about sports and younger DD does to some extent as well. I guess I'm lucky my girls would rather play sports than be a cheerleader, though,. honestly, I'd steer them clear of cheerleading because I feel it can be a dangerous sport. Yet, I do understand it has become a serious sport with many competitions. Six-year-old is probably more influenced by shows like Hannah Montana. I'm actually a stay-at-home mom so girls do spend time together--esp. in the summer. Part of their bonding as sisters does have effect 6-year-old has developed some older interests. This is both bad and good. On good side, my 6-year-old ran her first track meet as older sister is invloved with track and it was an all-comers meet. I'm now wondering if something is wrong with signing her up for a hip-hop dance class? If she does some "suggestive" moves is everyone going to judge me a parent with no values or think she on the track to becoming a teenaged mother?

I was raised very conservativly and my mom rarely discussed issues like sex, makeup, dress, dating, etc. I tried to figure these things out on my own. I want a different relationship with my DDs where we can discuss all the issues facing teens today--from puberty, to sexuality to makeup, boys and appropriate clothing. It is a battle sometimes, though I also see her growing up more confident of herself than I was at that age. It means more to me that my 13-year-old tells me she won't get a tatoo because it's not healthy for her body than because I forbade it. I do believe that sometimes the wildest kids come from the strictest of homes....

As for the stripper pole, it's not my thing and I'd definitely take it out if it were my home. But I do like the downstairs bar and dance floor. :)

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 4:45PM
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I do agree there is a lot of trampy stuff out there. Was just shopping for bras for 13-year-old and noticed them in a size for my 6-year-old!!

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 4:47PM
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Hmmm, I don't think it's emulating strippers so much as just another gimmick to get people to work out. No more than people are emulating boxers when they do tae bo. I mean, I take a boxing class but I wouldn't know how to get in a ring and fight. Just like somebody taking a pole class wouldn't exactly know how to give lap dances and take a twenty out of a guy's hand with their boobs.

I will say this. My friend who stripped while we were undergrads kinda hated her job. She said it made her hate gus a little (because they were so gross to all the girls). She was 22 at the time, owned her home home, car, and an accountant. And she only worked Thru-Sat nights. While the rest of us were killing ourselves with jobs not even making half of what she did. And she seriously is one of the smartest people I know. So it's not like all strippers are strung out crack heads getting pimped out. Money's not everything but it gave her so much more time to focus and study than we did.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 4:54PM
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Well, I personally don't look upon stripping as a respectable vocation. If that makes me judgmental, so be it -- it's just the way I feel. I guess my point about "emulating strippers" is the question in my mind of why anyone would want to associate themselves with that sort of lifestyle in any way, shape or form. I can see why someone would want to take a boxing class - a boxer is an athlete and while I don't exactly "get" the whole concept of hitting another person in the face, I can accept that boxing is a sport. A stripper's not an athlete; she's somebody who bares her body for money and I can't find much to respect about that. I'm sure they're not all crackheads or pimped out, but the lifestyle definitely lends itself to drugs and degradation and I can't find really find anything redeeming about it at all.

As I said - just my personal feeling on the subject.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 5:11PM
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IMO, that pole is Tacky -- The whole area is Tacky.

In an exercise room? I wouldn't rule out a house that had an 'exercise pole' in an exercise room, especially if there was also a ballet barre. But a 'stripper pole' in a Tacky Disco setting? YUCK.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 5:17PM
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As I stated earlier, as a schoolteacher I see it all. We have a uniform policy at our school, but we have dress up days for picture shoots. I cannot believe the clothes some of the little girls come dressed in. Bare midriffs and make-up in kindergarten. The make-up has been applied by an adult. I always wipe it off. A television journalist coined the the term "prosti-tot" and I'm sorry to say that's what some of these little girls look like. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer a little smocked dress with a nice pair of patent leather shoes that leggings and platform shoes on a six year old.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 5:25PM
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Oh sure. auntiejen (I think that's the right username,lol. sorry) You're totally entitled to feel however you want. I'm probably the least judemental person on the planet,lol. So I wouldn't knock you (or anybody else) for feeling how you do about strippers, presidental candidates or the price coffee.

All I know is that the one stripper I do know is one of the kindest, whip smart, funniest people ever and I'm glad to call her a friend. And it's kind of a good thing I didn't judge her based only on her job because then I never would have known that, right? It's funny, we met in a white collar crime class (sociology was my minor, her major) and she didn't tell what she did for about a month. It's sad she felt she couldn't be upfront because she was afraid I wouldn't want to hang out with her...Now she's my son's godmother,lol.

And that room still cracks me up. I think the people who own that house might be watching a little too much Swingtown on CBS. To me, it's kinda giving off a 70s key club vibe. Hahahaha

I said earlier my son would love it. How cute would it be to paint a whole inside firehouse area mural on the wall and have that be the fireman pole? Awesome.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 5:45PM
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As someone who is involved in real estate (no, not as a Realtor) I can state categorically that the dance floor/stripper pole/viewing area pictured above would absolutely detract from the home's value. There is NO question about this, even if the potential buyers liked it.

A finished basement in most areas of the country would generally not contain unadorned support poles; that is, they would either be boxed in to look like columns or included in a support wall or enclosed in a hollow wood or fiberglass column. Bare poles detract from the value of a finished basement, which is usually valued at about 20-30% per square foot of the per square foot value of the main living area (and is not ever included in the main living area square footage).

The reason has nothing to do with the morality, suitability, or tackiness of the area. Rather, it is the fact that an AVERAGE BUYER would NOT want this feature in a home. We know that because this feature is (to say the least) unusual. If it would not appeal to an average buyer of homes in that price range and geographic location, it detracts from the home.

In terms of the trashy popular culture issue, I got so tired of trying to police the television that we got rid of it 15 years ago... no looking back, and haven't missed it one bit. We have a media room for movies, which we enjoy, but tacky tv and commercials haven't bothered me---or influenced my kids---for many years. One still at home, 2 in college, and they've survived this nicely, lol.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 6:03PM
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Auntjen - I've always liked you and now I like you even more.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 6:14PM
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In answer to the question if I would exclude the house from my potential 'buy list', the answer would be no, we can see past most anything that can be rectified. Would I wonder what in the world someone was thinking? Absolutely!

If we bought the house I'm sure after settlement, I'd find (in good humor & for a future story) a gift certificate for 'exercise class' on the table from DH & like LoisGriffin mentioned, the boys would probably find 2 new firemen's hats in their new rms.

I'd have to smile red-faced because at least I'd know DH still finds me sexy & what wife couldn't love that?!

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 6:51PM
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What a coincindence--this is causing some controversy:

Here is a link that might be useful: Strip2Clothe

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 7:41PM
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I wasn't going to comment on this but I actually just can't help myself.. Talk about an OXYMORON!
so the sociology student chose to use her body to pay for it.
So did she learn why she'd did this? ROFLOLPIMP!

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 8:31PM
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I'm sorry cindyxues but I don't understand your question.

oxymoron [ox-see-more-on]
"a figure of speech that combines two apparently contradictory terms, for example cruel kindness"


sociology [so·ci·ol·o·gy]
"the scientific analysis of a social institution as a functioning whole and as it relates to the rest of society"

So if you want to call her a stripping sociologist, how is that an oxymoron? If anything it would put her in direct contact with a certain population that would be actually pretty interesting to study, no? Meaning the woman who choose to dance and the men who frequent such places.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 9:45PM
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Such an interesting many points of view..

I have to say that bottom line I'm with Sweeby on this - at least as far as home decor is concerned - I find the area to be very tacky, especially after reading that it's not a side room, but actually emcompasses a large portion of the finished basement. It brings to mind those honeymoon suites from the '70's with heart-shaped tubs and mirrored walls.

I remember seeing an episode on "Oprah" on pole dancing. It was touted as a great way to exercise, awaken your sensuality (as well as sexuality)...It sounded intriguing, but even if it was something I was drawn to do, I would still find that pole dancing basement room really creepy and would never want to entertain guests there - even if no one was using the pole.

I don't think it's just my age - I think if DD or DS (late 20's) were looking at houses to buy they would consider that room to be an embarassment and waste of space.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 10:21PM
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tishtoshnm Zone 6/NM

AS far as resale, all I would want to know is if you could cut a whole from the floor upstairs and turn it into a fireman's pole and place the appropriate cushions underneath.

I suffer from no delusions on my appearance, while it certainly could be worse, I would appear absolutely ridiculuous on that thing. Dh would have entertainment alright but he would be laughing. Not to mention, I have 4 kids, there are only so many minutes before the kids notice us missing. The pole would be a waste of very valuable time.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 11:06PM
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"I will say this. My friend who stripped while we were undergrads kinda hated her job. She said it made her hate gus a little (because they were so gross to all the girls)."

This comment says it all, imo.

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 11:24PM
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I think it's tacky. I'm all for consenting adults doing what they're comfortable with privately, but count me in as being one of those who's tired of our "disclose all" society. Is there no modesty????

It's as if the entire world has become reality-tv based, where the cameras are running all the time, and there is no censor.

Having a stripper set up like that in a house is just a prime example of someone who didn't think it inappropriate to publicly flaunt something that might just fine in private. I think it's just waaaaay Too Much Information.

As far as breastfeeding, I was a breastfeeding mother. But I probably hold the unpopular belief that I don't want to see it all. I know it's nourishing the baby. And I know it's natural. But a woman's breast is still an intimate part of her own anatomy, and I frankly don't want to see whipped out in front of me. I think there are discreet ways to nurse, and not-so-discreet.

My girlfriend is one who had very large breasts, and when she'd go to nurse her kids, she'd plop out her breast and let it sit for a minute while she scooped up her daughter. That meant that the rest of us who'd been talking face to face with her would be face to face with her breast. Yes, we all have them. Yes, it's natural, but I really didn't want to see that much of her.

Going to the restroom is natural too, but I'd rather not see the intimate details of that, either.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 7:39AM
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Lois, I'm sure that Jen wasn't implying that everyone who strips is a crackhead loser. She is just saying that stripping isn't something to emulate. I'm sure that your friend (who I assume you are friends with despite her former job, not because of it) would agree. She has told you as much.

The pole in that house is in a family area. In addition to it not being something that's family oriented, it's just plain tacky. If I was in that basement at a gathering of family or friends, and someone started swinging around the pole, I would be so embarassed for them. It wouldn't stop me from buying the house, but I would rip it out, snickering all the way, because the whole area is just so cheesy...totally 70s cheese.

I'm far from a prude, and I think that doing a striptease for my mate is sexy, but I don't need a pole in the family room to do it. Exercise? ... let's call it what it is. There are sexual positions that require flexibility, stamina, and muscle strength, but I don't do them to get a great workout. Swinging around a pole is sexy, it's seduction, and that's the appeal. I don't judge any woman for doing it, just call it what it is.

And since I'm just throwing all of my opinions out there :O) he's my 2 cents on allowing kids to make decisions - referring to "It means more to me that my 13-year-old tells me she won't get a tatoo because it's not healthy for her body than because I forbade it. I do believe that sometimes the wildest kids come from the strictest of homes.... ". It's great to have open dialogue with kids, and guide them through decision making, but it's also important to put down rules and set boundaries. Kids' brains aren't developed yet, and they simply can't make decisions as adults can. Not only do they need for us to call the shots, but they WANT for us to. It makes them feel safe. It also helps them out in situations where they are under peer pressure. It's easier to say "I'm not allowed" than to say "My parents and I have discussed this issue and I feel that it's not in my best interest".

My partner came from a home where the mom was more of a friend than a parent. He was allowed to make his own decisions from an early age. He was into stuff that he wishes he'd never been into. He was robbed of being a child. I came from a strict catholic home. I had the childhood that he wanted. He wishes that his mother had of been a mother, not a friend. He's a dad now, and you can bet that he's strict. He looks back and realizes that what made perfect sense at 15 yrs old, actually made no sense at all.

Just my 2 cents....

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 7:59AM
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So if you want to call her a stripping sociologist, how is that an oxymoron? If anything it would put her in direct contact with a certain population that would be actually pretty interesting to study, no?

LOL cute take but lets be realistic here. The girl wasn't going under cover for a job or a college course. She did it for the money and because something in her life's experience led her to that front door.
and if you studied sociology I think my oxymoron statement is pretty much self explanatory. In fact I think the case of a girl sociology student stripping or pole dancing her way through college is pretty much a case study in itself.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 8:31AM
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"The girl wasn't going under cover for a job or a college course. She did it for the money..."

Well, of course. I worked as an assistant in the Psychology Dept (my major--we always used to joke that sociologists and psychologists aren't supposed to like each other,lol). and made 9 bucks an hour. She made $3000 a week. Hell yeah she did it for the money.

".... and because something in her life's experience led her to that front door."

Please tell me you are not one of those people that assumes strippers must have all either been molested or have earth shatteringly low self-esteem.

I actually kinda love this story....As she tells it her boyfriend went out with his friends and they went to the strip club. He came home minus $100. At the time she was working at Subway and she said she thought "I make like $200 a week." Right then she decided to go to the next amateur night and the rest is bank account history! Anyway that's the scoop and once she started making bank she got an accountant. She's set and doesn't hve to dance anymore in grad school. I got married and had a baby before we even graduated. Like I said she's my son's godson and was my maid of honor.

I don't judge anybody for thinking stripping is wrong for whatever reason a person may think it's wrong. Simply because I try not to judge people period. We all make the choices we make in life because they're what works for us. So who am I to say what another person should and shoudn't do, right? I also breastfed my son until he self-weaned at 3yrs old. I don't look down my nose at formula moms because there's no reason to. They made their choice and I made mine. Simple as that. One thing I say about my son (and I mean this with all my heart) is that he could be anything, ANYTHING he wants to be. A plumber, a lawyer, a golfer, or a drag queen. As long as he is happy, kind, loves himself and others. AND respects people.

I was (and am) friends with her regardless of how she paid for school, not despite or because of it.

It's like if she were gay (and yes I have gay friends too). What gender they're attracted to doesn't have any impact on our friendship so what do I care? K. stripping for a few years in college doesn't impact our friendship either so what do I care?

I really only wanted to get some advice on how to decorate my new home that we're building. But I think I'm out of luck. I've read some really judgemental posts and that's a shame. You all have some beautiful homes but some of you are not too pretty on the inside.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 10:11AM
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This thread is a bit im going to contribute my 2 cents. I am a Realtor - and here in PA the pole area would take away from the overall value of the house. That being said, I dont think it would necessarily prevent someone from buying. I am also a former "dancer"- I started dancing when I was 18 and stopped at 20. The money was fantastic (a minn of $1000 a night), and while there are many girls out there who dance who are "crack heads", most of the girls are single moms or college students doing what they can to make money. Its definately not a occupation consumed by high levels of morality, but it is illegal and i personlly think its more degrading for the men who pay to go into clubs then it is for the girls working in them. All that being said, I am also now the mother of 3 little girls, and the wife of a pastor and school teacher - my prayer is that my girls do not grow up to make allof the same choices in life that I made. I want better for them then that. SO my point in all of this. Stripper pole in basement = not great for resale, fun times for the family who installed it though, and stripping as an occupation is not the end of the world, though not something I aspire to have my own daughters do.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 10:23AM
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Wow, Loisgriffin. You say "I try not to judge people period" and your last comment is that some of us "are not too pretty on the inside" -- ?? Bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 10:31AM
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Yes, Auntjen, it is almost as if Loisgriffin is priding herself on how broad-minded she is (gosh, she even has gay friends!) and likes everyone except those who disagree with her.

diydevon, I respect your stance on this, as it is probably the best informed opinion here :) However, I think the activity is, ultimately, as degrading to the dancer as it is to the spectator and has a serious impact on women's self-esteem.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 10:51AM
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diydevon - thanks for sharing your insight. I do understand why you would want something more/something better for your little girls. You sound like a very caring mom.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 11:45AM
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What's the difference between a waitress and a stripper ???

Two weeks!

(sorry, it's the only joke i know)

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 11:46AM
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I don't get that joke. Is is funny because a stripper can make in one night what a waitress does in two weeks? Is that it?

I said I "try" not to judge people. I suppose I'm not always super successful,lol.

I do pride myself on being open minded. I try to look at people for who they are above anything else. That's not a bad thing.

How do you know I only like those who agree with me? Did I ever once say "You're a big bad person because you think being a stripper isn't the best thing in the whole wide world?" Nope. I believe that what I was saying is that it's kinda sucky that some folks would pass up a person who could be a great pal simply because of what they did. And I really think that's true. BUT to each their own.

It does seem though that if I had said "Oh my poor dear friend. She used to be a stripper but I just overlook that major flaw and be her friend anyway.", then I would have gone over much better. But that's not how I feel, and that's okay too.

I really do "try" not to pass judement on people. Who knows why people have the opinions they do. Whatever reason they are welcome to it. Even if I don't agree (which I clearly don't in case).

What I mean about you (generally speaking) not being pretty on the inside is how you've reacted to somebody that does in fact have a different opinion than you. I never mocked anyone (can't say the same of some of the other posters). I think I always maintained that even if I don't agree with your opinion (and explained why I don't), you are of course still more than welcome to it.

Not every forum is for everyone. I clearly don't mesh with the folks here. So if I need help here and there I'll just stick to the pictures and skip the rest,lol. It's only the Internet people. Doesn't mean much at the end of the day,lol.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 2:36PM
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"some folks would pass up a person who could be a great pal simply because of what they did"

I never saw anyone say this. I can't speak for anyone else here, but I don't think that was what anyone was saying.

You're right, it's just the internet, and it's just opinions, so if anyone says that they think a stripper pole is tacky and/or that the profession isn't something that they think is inspiring, then it's no biggie, and not meant to make you feel that you can't post here.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 2:44PM
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I don't quite agree with the notion that "it's just the internet." Behind each keystroke is a human being with thoughts and feelings -- these aren't really just faceless, nameless entries we're reading here.

Loisgriffin, I think you're reading a bit more into what's been said here than was really intended. I don't think any of us are concerned that your close friend used to be a stripper. We aren't making any judgments about you for having her as a friend, nor are we making judgments about your friend as a person. Some of us have simply stated that we find the "vocation" of stripping distasteful, and I honestly don't see where anyone was mocked. I just don't think any of us deserved to be told we were "not pretty on the inside." That went a bit far IMO.

I hope you won't feel as though you can't post here, because you are more than welcome to, and we'll be happy if you stay among us.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 2:59PM
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Lois, the joke is that when a woman gets a job in a strip club, she tells everyone that she would never be a stripper, she's just a waitress there. Then, within two weeks she's jaded by the whole business and becomes a stripper because the money's better.

Sadly, I learned this joke from my adult daughter. She has been waitressing at a "men's club" for at least two years. She dropped out of college because she is so obsessed with the business that she goes in at least 6 days a week, sometimes 7. How do I know she's just waitressing? Well, I don't. I do know that she was hired because of her 38 ddd's (they're real), and not her less than sparkling personality. Along with her bustline she has a very unfortunate waistline, which she can disguise somewhat with clothes. If she took it all off she would look like she was about 7 monthes along and that probably doesn't go over very well at the nicer clubs. That's my rationalization that gets me thru the day.

She was raised in a very stable and happy household. I re-married when she was 3 and within around a year her "real" father dissapeared for good. Here's the thing - her personality is SO much like her biological father's. She can't help herself, but she makes all the stupid mistakes he did and she is throwing her life into the trash exactly as he did.

There isn't a day that goes by that I don't regret the fact that I did not get her counseling, medical help and any and every tool available to help her value her life more. By the time I realized this it was too late and she won't listen to any advice I have to give her at this point.

Every once in a while she informs me that she doesn't want to have kids. I'm sure she wants me to tell her that I want her to have kids, but inside I'm thinking there are some gene pools that just don't need to continue.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 3:31PM
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(((((Daisy))))) I'm so very sorry. You're obviously heartbroken about the choices your girl has made. It does hurt when those we once had great hopes and dreams for disappoint us.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 6:19PM
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It's like if she were gay

what the heck does being gay or breast feeing have to do with being a stripper? Listen you're throwing some pretty lame statements out there which are not only off topic for this forum, but IMO the whole subject is pretty offending to the majority of women, especially when one seems to feel the amount earned somehow justifies the means.
And if my opinion on that seems ugly to you, Try multiplying that by millions of how ugly most women feel about this profession for a young girl.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 8:31PM
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Alright, this IS me judging someone....

Cindy, you're a real b.i.t.c.h.

And with that, I'm out.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 9:31PM
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Thank you jen, I appreciate the very kind thoughts.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 10:13PM
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Alright, this IS me judging someone....

Cindy, you're a real b.i.t.c.h

Yes on this subject I most definetly am. I have worked with a lot of troubled girls in my life and making light of this was just more than I could tolerate. I apologize to the room, but not for my opinions.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 10:38PM
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What keeps running through my mind's eye while reading this post is the image I was faced with last weekend. We were at a Greek restaurant and the table next to us had a family with two little (5 & 6ish) girls. The parents encouraged the girls to get up on the table and dance. The mother first tied up the girl's shirt into a mid-drift and pulled down her shorts below her belly button. The two girls then began GRINDING--yes, grinding to the music.

I was invisibly disgusted and the mother told me "it wasn't nice to stare at little girls". Can you imagine that response given the circumstances?? I told her that they needed to get use to it considering profession she was preparing them for.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 11:28PM
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Here's a question. Would you let your daughter (or son) spend time at a home where you knew the parents had this setup in the basement and the kids were allowed down there? I know I wouldn't.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 1:44AM
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I know there are many feelings on the topic. The bottom line for me is this, I have 1 daughter, I would NEVER want her to be a stripper. I have 10 sons, I do not expect that any of them would ever frequent an establishment that had strippers.

It is degrading to both sexes. I find no solace in the fact that women can make a lot of money. It is really about a much larger problem than that. How little do we value women beyond their nakedness, or shape, or ability to excite. How little credit do we give our sons or our husbands when we think " of course they are men, they will go watch"

I want my daughter to be more than a shape or a toy. I want my sons to look at women for their worth beynd their shape as well. Is this too much to ask?
I don't know.
I know my 3 older sons appreciate women but would not go to a strip joint. My oldest son refused to have anything to do with a "traditional" bachelor party when he was getting married.

I did not raise perfect children, but we were clear in our values and ethics. Sometimes this is not enough, I know that.
I also know as tolerance is the buzzword of the day we sometimes get to thinking that anything is ok. Anything is not ok.
When our choices affect others, degrade others, abuse others, take advantage of others weaknesses, we need to think twice and realize anything is not ok.

daisyadair, my heart goes out to you. You must have sadness everyday.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 3:12AM
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Cindy, you've got a lot of class, lady.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 12:11PM
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Oh, and acountryfarm - you are wise indeed. Thanks so much for posting that.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 12:40PM
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Mustangs, just wanted to mention that I have a very dear friend who lives in Cyprus (while not Greece, they speek Greek there, and a lot of their traditions are from Greece) and he talks about dancing on the tables all the time.. in his dad's restaurant it's a nightly thing and at parties it's just what they do. So, maybe a case of cultural differences?


    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 12:57PM
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I've seen Greek dancing on tables, but they've always been doing traditional moves, not gyrating suggestively like the little girls that Mustangs saw.

When my niece was 3, she picked up "I'm shakin' my booty" somewhere. She didn't grind or anything, but she definitely stuck her little butt out and shook it all around. It's amazing (and horrifying sometimes) what little ones pick up and latch onto. Now she's 6 and watches Hannah Montana and High School Musical, and it just feels like too much too soon IMO. I thoroughly enjoyed snuggling with her and her younger brother on the sofa recently, as we watched the vintage version of "Winnie the Pooh and the Blustery Day." Why does everything tween trickle down to the younger ones? They grow up too quickly as it is.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 1:09PM
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Having a large Greek community in our area I have an appreciation for Greek traditions including dancing on the table. What I had a problem with was the "tarting up" of the little girls and the non-traditional dance form displayed by the kids.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 1:45PM
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Gotcha, I musta missed the part about the gyrating. I just remember when he came to visit us and he commented on how tame and quiet our restaurants are and we were at Chili's.. not exactly my idea of a quiet restaurant, LOL, and we had that whole conversations about dancing on the tables. Sorry for the high-jack :)


    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 2:46PM
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aunt jen...thanks, I felt the same about you and others on the same page. Usually I don't get involved in stupid stuff, but this one had so many hypocrisies it was too hard to grab the duct tape.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 8:43PM
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Wow, this is the first thread in a long time that I've actually enjoyed reading.

It's nice to know that although we have some differences, many of you feel the same way I do--not judgmental, but opinionated.

The pole in the house would gross me out, too!

    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 9:33PM
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Pole dancing as a job is just another way to sell sex for money.
No, it's not intercourse or oral sex, so technically, it's not prostitution.
It stops just inside the line of what's legal -- usually.
But the dancers are still selling sex for money, and the customers are paying to get their jollies.

I don't want anything in my house to imply that anyone in it buys or sells sex.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2008 at 11:01PM
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LOL, wait till I tell DH he has to take down the poll he installed in the new house. ROTFL because just picturing me, a pole and DH looking on. Well, that's what comedies are made of. LOL Picture this, bum knee, crooked toes, bad back and 50 lbs. overweight. OK, you've had enough???

Pesonally, I feel sorry for anyone who has to degrade themselves to make a dollar. It's just sad, is what it is.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2008 at 3:32AM
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