Please help Kitchen/dining layout?

mattypiesMay 14, 2014

I have recreated my floor plan in floorplanner so that I could play around with furniture placement. I would love advice on my kitchen. Especially my island and dining room. I can't figure out how to make it all fit. It feels cramped and I am not sure how to accommodate.

The dotted lines around the table show the table size when all the leaves are in during special family functions not day to day living.

I would love 3 stools at my island.

The room off the kitchen will be laundry/pantry.

I have another thread on the building forum about layout and I am working on reconfiguring the bedroom to add a bath.

I will also attach the drawing of the drawings of the house from the web so that you can get a visual.

Thanks for your help!

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mattypies

Conceptual drawing

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 9:20AM
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mattypies

Conceptual floor plan from builder.

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 9:37AM
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Scrappygal

I would do the rectangular if you want 3 seats, we also need 3 seats (3 kids) and it's a bit of a harder layout with an island. Also, where is your dishwasher going?

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 10:55AM
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greenhaven

My initial reaction, without thinking about it too much, (admittedly a problem for me,) is that the table and island create multiple pinch points and make that space seem super-crowded.

Your conceptual elevation of the exterior is stunning, and that is the only reason I do not recommend you reverse that "southwest" corner and use that space to have adequate kitchen and dining room.

But that IS my initial reaction, for whatever it is worth.

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 11:01AM
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mattypies

I can't seem to find pics of a rectangular island that I like. Would it work to put cabinets across the empty wall and have a breakfast bar there? I can't seems to envision this space. Would it be too far from one counter to the next?

Wouldn't my dishwasher go to the left of the sink? Where do you suggest I put the dishwasher?

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 11:04AM
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mattypies

We are building on a lake in Northern Ontario and we are sold on the vaulted ceiling and design of this house for the views that it will allow us.

I agree that the dining/kitchen seems to be competing for space but I can't figure out how to fix it.

I do not have a clear path out to the deck from the kitchen because of the dining table.

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 11:08AM
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sjhockeyfan325

Do you have a drawing with measurements (even just writing them in on the first picture would be very helpful)

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 11:28AM
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mattypies

I have this from the site. I will work on adding them to the floor planner site.

ROOM TYPE DIMENSIONS NOTES
Great Room 25â²-9â³ x 17â²-1â³ Vaulted
Kitchen 13â²-4â³ x 12â²-11â³ Vaulted
Dining Room 12â²-10â³ x 12â²-11â³ Vaulted
Master Bedroom 13â²-0â³ x 12â²-11â³ Vaulted
Bedroom # 2 9â²-1â³ x 10â²-8â³ Flat
Bedroom # 3 9â²-1â³ x 10â²-8â³ Flat

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 11:58AM
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mattypies

Dimensions added

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 12:02PM
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greenhaven

I am at a loss. I would have a hard time spending the money to build something that doesn't work foor me, but I am a finction over form gal. Hopefully the experts here will help you find a solution.

Does your builder not do custom homes? Are there limited choices? I find it hard to believe you cannot combine the traits of view and function. I suppose it also matters how big the family is and whether this will be a primary residence or a getaway property.

Frankly though I would have a hard time not choosing that house. It really is gorgeous.

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 10:03PM
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sjhockeyfan325

Frankly, it IS a little cramped as drawn. What is the item to the right of the love seat - is it a TV or a fireplace? If the former, it can hang on the wall and not take up so much space. If the latter, I'd probably do away with it so the living room furniture can be moved to the "right". You'll gain a lot of space that way. I would Plan on backless stools that can tuck underneath the countertop when not in use. With the dimensions you have, I don't see any way for you to get 3 stools at the island. Even with the narrowest of aisles (36" each) the island is less than 4' long, which is just big enough for two stools. Does the table need to be in such a prominent location? It might be better if you move it to the lower left corner (in the picture).

    Bookmark   May 14, 2014 at 10:53PM
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buehl

This does not address the crowding of the Table and the Living Room furniture, but as far as the kitchen is concerned, something like this might work.

One issue, though, is the aisle behind the island - it's only 45" but it looks like it might be a pretty busy aisle - if the family entrance to the house is through that exterior door in the Laundry Room. If the family entrance is via the "covered porch" entrance at the "top", then 45" might suffice.

The other issue is the windows on the "bottom" wall. I suspect this is a "form over function" house and kitchen b/c appearance ("looks") seems to be driving the design rather than function. Ideally, you would design a functional kitchen and then work with the appearance from there. Hopefully the windows will work with your desired look.

You need dish storage space and it needs to be near the table. If you can fit all your dishes, glasses, silverware, etc. in the 30" base next to the DW + the 39" base in the island, then you might not need that upper I put in...but be sure you have enough storage for everythig else as well! (You can store pots & pans and, possibly, some small appliances in the corner susan.)

Zone map

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 1:59AM
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juddgirl2

Beautiful exterior! Can you choose a more narrow dining table or are you using an existing table? I've had 42" and I've had narrower tables from 30-36" and all seem to work fine. My 30 is in my eat in kitchen and it's probably too narrow for a formal dining table, but you might be able to steal a few inches with a 36' table.

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 2:47AM
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mattypies

Thank you so much for all the feedback!

Maybe I am going about this project backwards. We love the "bones" of this house. I assumed I could make functionality fit within the bones and not have to sacrifice either.

To address some of the questions:

The table can go absolutely anywhere! I will be buying new to fit.

That is a fireplace on the living room wall. The tv will hang above the fireplace. How close can I comfortably have the sofa to the fireplac/tv? All other pieces in the living room are imaginary furniture.

The exterior entrance in the laundry will be removed and the laundry will be laundry/pantry. I am thinking pocket door. I hope to store small appliances in there as well as a microwave shelf? Only my kids use the micro for pizza pockets and easy mac. I would prefer to do away with it all together!

The mudroom will be downstairs as we have a full walkout to the lake. Downstairs will also have a huge rec room for the teens, another bath and 2 bedrooms. One under each wing; kitchen and master.

Does the space between the wall and island need to be so large now that I have taken out the exterior door? Or should I put cabinetry on that wall with a breakfast bar and do away with the island?

In theory I only have 2 kids so only need 2 spots at the island.

Thank you so very much.

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 7:47AM
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mattypies

I just had and idea! What if I bumped out the master wing and the kitchen wings by 3ish feet? I cant go much bigger and my husband does not want to square it off. Could be a good compromise. That would give me more room in my en-suit. Adding one more foot to the kitchen plus another 2 feet of cupboards along the empty wall?

Does that make sense? How do I know if it is a load bearing wall? I told you I was new at this!

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 8:22AM
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mattypies

I redesigned the floor plan with 3 extra feet in the kitchen and master.

I welcome any and all critique on this change. I think it really helps my island problem. Does anyone see problems with this?

It also spreads the fridge and stove out better.

Now if I could figure out my closet and master bath!

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 2:04PM
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sjhockeyfan325

Is the bedroom next to the master intended to be a regularly-used room or primarily a guest room? I would consider shortening it (shorten the 18' length) and extend the "upper" part of the master into that room. (I don't really see a need for a sitting area in a second bedroom -- but then I don't see the need for one in a master bedroom either. I prefer to 'sit' in the common area).

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 2:14PM
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mattypies

2nd bedroom is for my 13 year old daughter. The original plan had 2 small bedrooms. She is confident that she wants the big room with a pull out sofa for sleepovers instead of an en-suit. My sons room will be downstairs under the master with a recroom and bath.

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 2:21PM
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mattypies

I really don't want a huge house and it seems that this just keeps growing. I am trying very hard to fit function into the space not just add space.

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 2:31PM
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robo (z6a)

I just found some photos online of this model with a U shaped peninsula kitchen and can I say SHAZAM!!! It looks amazing!!! If you can get that kitchen in the original sq feet I say go for it. I guess it depends if you "live" big or small.

Here is a link that might be useful: Photos

This post was edited by robotropolis on Thu, May 15, 14 at 15:55

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 3:54PM
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mattypies

I have studied those pictures many times! I love this house so much. I guess I should have posted pics so people could see why I am working so hard for this design!

The photos of the living area seemed staged to me. It looks like a tight squeeze between breakfast bar and table and table and sofa. That's were my real concern lies.

We definitely live small but flow and function are important when you live small. The rooms will feel very big with all the windows and the lake.

This post was edited by mattypies on Thu, May 15, 14 at 16:10

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 4:01PM
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sjhockeyfan325

The house in those pix is gorgeous, but it is "snug" - you can see that the dining table bench is practically touching the sofa in one picture, and in the picture where you can only see the table and chairs, all of the chairs and bench are pushed in. Definitely a realtor's pictures.

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 4:30PM
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may_flowers

My dining room is right on the other side of my peninsula. Trust me, there's no room for seating at the peninsula in that design. We never even bought any stools and changed the bar overhang to storage cabinets in our remodel.

So why can't you sit at the table? I think you'll appreciate some breathing room in the kitchen since there's not much elsewhere on that level for a family of four. My small U shaped kitchen with a peninsula feels claustrophobic, and there's only two of us.

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 6:50PM
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greenhaven

I agree with may_flowers. Something has to give, and logially seating at the peninsula is very redundant in this tight space. Try mocking this up on a program with 3d rendering and you ill begin t understand just how tight it really is and how having seating at the island is like having two tables in the same room.

The "new" drawing does not gain you anything at all in regards to flow to the back door so adding square footage there will not really gain you anything functionally UNLESS you do away with your island and put your dining room table there. If you purchase a counter-height table it can easily double as additional work space.

    Bookmark   May 15, 2014 at 7:30PM
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mattypies

Check out this thread:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0700250325725.html

Stunning kitchen, living, great room! If my calculation are correct, she has approximately the same length in room as me. It gives me hope!

    Bookmark   May 16, 2014 at 12:51PM
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autumn.4
    Bookmark   May 16, 2014 at 8:47PM
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buehl

Regarding the MW. At least design a place to put one, even if you don't put one there now. E.g., an alcove (with electric outlet) in the island. Use it for baskets of potatoes or other items for now. Not planning for an essential appliance (essential in most people's eyes) will (1) hurt resale and (2) provide a place for it if you find you use it more often later. A pantry location is OK if you only use it occasionally. Pantries need to be kept cool, so unless the pantry is wide-open or is kept cool some other way, nothing should be in it that generates heat - like a MW or an oven or a refrigerator. Very occasional use should not be a problem.

This post was edited by buehl on Sun, May 18, 14 at 0:29

    Bookmark   May 17, 2014 at 9:21PM
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greenhaven

Ooohhh, the humanity! Such an awesome typo, buehl! LMfannyO!!!

    Bookmark   May 17, 2014 at 9:38PM
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buehl

As I sit here in the Changing Room at my daughter's After Prom Party.....I burst out laughing when I saw that typo... :-)

The typo has been fixed!

    Bookmark   May 18, 2014 at 12:34AM
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sjhockeyfan325

Glad you're having fun!

    Bookmark   May 18, 2014 at 10:59AM
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