What's wrong with men ?

DaisyduckworthFebruary 23, 2003

Three ladies, myself included, went to a dance at the weekend. All of us can dance, and I teach it so am reasonably good at it. It was supposedly for older singles, but except for a male friend who knew us, who just happened to be there, and who shared himself with us all in turn, we sat out supporting the wall the whole evening. Being watched by plenty of unattached males also supporting the wall, but in standing position. We are none of us excessively fat, or ugly, all in the same age group as the onlookers, and we had all showered before going out and put on plenty of deodorant and all of us of friendly disposition, so why weren't we asked to dance? We weren't the only wallflowers - there were dozens of women around, but these men just stood around looking like stunned mullets. Why do they go to dances if they don't want either to dance or to socialise?

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browntoestoo

They sound like they were scared to death! Either that or they just came out to listen to some music and hang with their buddies. But I'm not a man and would never pretend to understand their behavior.

I remember my old clubbing days as a twenty-something. I used to go out with a bunch of girl friends. I was always a bit shy and reserved. I had a girl friend who was more outgoing and always looked like she was having a great time. She was usually the first to be asked to dance and I figured out that it was her body language speaking volumes. She would stand and start moving to the music looking all primed for dancing. Worked every time!

    Bookmark   February 24, 2003 at 2:53AM
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darkeyedgirl

I think lots of guys out there are shy. They want the woman to approach them. In this day and age, usually the women does approach the guy, ask him out, ask for a phone number, etc.

I like the shy ones. I also like being the one who approaches the guy. I think that men today know that us women aren't helpless and if we want them, we will ask them.

- darkeyedgirl

    Bookmark   February 24, 2003 at 8:06AM
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SandiD

This was common when I lived in Germany. A bunch of us used to go clubbing and we (the females) didn't wait for a guy to ask us to dance. I can't remember all the times when it'd be us in a group all dancing, occasionally a guy would come along & dance with us and cut one of us out. It was awhole lot more fun dancing as a group. OTOH, the dj's never played slow dancing either.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2003 at 3:25PM
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Daisyduckworth

This wasn't 'clubbing', it was a proper dance, ballroom dancing, which is very popular here. This is a place and a situation where it is not generally acceptable for ladies to ask the gentlemen to dance, except for a special 'ladies' choice' segment - we're an old-fashioned lot, here, and of an age when 50 is thought of as young! Note the terminology! The men weren't talking to each other. They weren't drinking. They were standing. Just standing.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2003 at 4:21PM
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browntoestoo

Well, I haven't been to a proper dance since Jr. High. I have no explanation. Were you all gathered together in a clump?

Gentlemen? What gives?

    Bookmark   February 24, 2003 at 6:01PM
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rotny

Sometimes we're a little intimidated by you ladies. Rejection isn't very high on our list of desirables and instead of taking a chance we sometimes just let the opportunity slip away. Believe me, as hard as it is for a woman to approach a man, it's much harder for us to make the first move. Ironically enough, the male ego is a fragile and delicate thing.

Just a guy offering up his 2 cent.

Rotny

    Bookmark   February 25, 2003 at 3:09PM
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colleenoz

Daisy, sounds like you needed a nun to go along and chivvy the men into asking the ladies to dance. Worked at our school dances :-)
Seriously, though, maybe a social director to point out to the men "Those ladies look like they'd like to dance. Why don't you go over and ask them?"
Otherwise, why did they go to the dance in the first place?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2003 at 12:49AM
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Daisyduckworth

Rotny, there wasn't much chance of a rejection, I promise you! When women pay to go to a dance, they expect to dance, not to sit around, especially when there are men there who have also paid for the privilege. For the life of me,I can't figure out why they'd go there in the first place if they weren't man enough to ask and do what was expected of them! Ok, so they all had 'bad backs and gammy knees'. What's wrong with talking to a woman for heaven's sake? At least he'd be getting his money's worth of socialising. So he gets a knock-back from time to time - so what, there were plenty others to choose from, and maybe you need to clean up your opening lines! Sorry, I don't accept fragile male ego as an excuse for just plain bad manners and wet-blanketing.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2003 at 5:32AM
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rotny

Daisy, you're absolutely right. If I were a woman in that same situation I would have had the same expectations as you and your friends. Guys are a little cautions to apporach a woman spontaneously but, in a setting where such interaction is practically prescribed, I can't see why any man wouldn't take advantage of that.

If its any consolation, we (men) are very stupid sometimes.

Rotny

    Bookmark   February 26, 2003 at 2:23PM
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SueZQue

Daisy - If this is a common situation at these dances, why don't you suggest to the organizers that they throw in a few mixers where everyone is invited onto the dance floor without a partner. Every few minutes everyone would change partners. That takes the rejection out of the picture.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2003 at 6:43AM
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browntoestoo

You can't waltz or tango without a partner, can you?

    Bookmark   February 27, 2003 at 10:27AM
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SueZQue

I only meant that you would go to the floor without a partner - with some scheme to pair everyone up, and at the end of each number everyone would change partners.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2003 at 1:43PM
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haliwa01

What gives is that from my experience if a guy goes up to a group of women and asks one of them to dance they turn him down and he better not ask any of the other women in the group because they will feel they were his second choice and also will turn him down just as quick.

My problem with this is you see a woman standing on the side, moving to the song but yet when a man who is not built like a body builder or thin as a rail asks her to dance she turns him down. I have seen times where I (being a little overweight) would ask a girl to dance and she would say no and within a couple of seconds a guy who is skinny would ask her and she would just about jump out of her pants to get on the dance floor.

What gives ladies?? All us men who are not body builders or are not thin want to do is dance with you at a club.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2005 at 8:00PM
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bogi

FYI..... I think most men HATE to dance. They like to dance about as much as a woman likes to change her own oil. There is gratification to both ...in both instances, but we both hate to do things. (Changing oil in a car is more benifical in matters of practicality though) (being a bit facetious there girls) I like to dance at times and to the right tunes. Most times I do not. If a woman wants to listen to my stereo at home and dance...I would dance all night with her. Men don't need to be a spectical as a woman does. I don't need to be noticed. But those are the differences we have to overcome.

I have the body of a body builder....without the bulk...but not from weight lifting. It is from hard work and keeping active. I have been mistaken for an ice skating celebrity and asked for an autograph. I perform my dance on waterskis as a preferance. If a woman would reciprocate...and try a little of the things I like to do....she may be surprised how I may return the favor, in things she enjoys.

Oh....and I do get rejected at times when I do ask for a hand at a dance.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2005 at 8:54PM
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olphart

Bogi hit the nail on the head men donÂt like to dance. Oh, sure, we will dance, and they we even be very good at it. But we hate it nonetheless. ItÂs when dancing is a part the courting ritual that makes it palatable to us.

You remember Harry telling Sally about not taking a woman to the airport at the beginning of the relationship? "Because eventually things move on and you don't take someone to the airport and I never wanted anyone to say to me, ÂHow come you never take me to the airport anymore?Â"

Those men were in a dilemma  they all wanted to meet women, but they were deathly afraid that if they asked you to dance, and if a relationship ensued, you would hound them forever with, "How come you never take me dancing anymore?"

It just ainÂt worth it!

    Bookmark   December 8, 2005 at 7:34AM
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centralcacyclist

I'm a woman and I'm not that keen on dancing myself. I can, I will if necessary. I've taken ballroom dance classes, I used to take ballet classes. I've taken modern dance classes, jazz classes and jitterbug lessons. I am flexible and coordinated. I am simply not comfortable with a partner I don't know well. Go figure.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2005 at 9:59AM
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haliwa01

But, that still leaves me with the question of why do women who are in packs and mvoing with the music on the sidelines not want to dance with a man when he asks them to dance.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2005 at 9:46AM
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mimi_boo

Haliwa01 - if you're giving off the same vibes in person at a dance or wherever that you're giving off here online, then that's probably why. How many threads are you going to complain that you're not rail thin or a body builder?

    Bookmark   December 9, 2005 at 11:50AM
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olphart

A little history on my current relationship.

I met Michelle through Matchmaker Houston (computer service). She was a teacher something I admire, and she was a golfer one of my passions. We corresponded for a short time, then we decided to talk on the phone. We had a nice conversation, but I detected absolutely no interest on her part for pursuing anything.

A week or so later she saw me online and asked how I was (we had not corresponded at all since the phone call). We got to talking again, then another phone call resulted in a mutual decision to meet for the "safe lunch".

We had a pleasant time, but, again, I detected absolutely no interest on her part. I walked her to her car preparing to shake hands with her and that would be the end of it. Just before she got into the car she reached out and hugged me and gave me a kiss on the cheek. That was the first signal she gave that she was interested.

The point of this is that some people just dont give off "good vibes" for one reason or another. Maybe they are guarded because of past experiences. Maybe they dont want to seem too friendly for fear them may appear too available. Maybe it is simply an insecurity, or perhaps, as Michelle claimed, she just didnt know how to "play the dating game".

Think about this next time you are in a social situation. Try being friendly without showing interest. Just walk by someone and say, "Howdy!", and walk on by. Dont come across anxious, but dont look like you are gonna bite someones head off if they dont pay you any nevermind.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2005 at 12:52PM
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centralcacyclist

I respond to consistent and positive contact. People grow on me with time. I might have initial interest based on what is immediately apparent but time and positive continuous contact and interest are what win me over. But there might be a fine line between this and stalking!

    Bookmark   December 9, 2005 at 1:43PM
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lpinkmountain

I used to go to contra dances every weekend. There it is considered rude, male or female, to refuse an offer to dance. Once I was at a dance and I got a sick headache and couldn't find anyplace to sit down. I was hovering in a dark corner waiting to see if I was going to get over it or get sicker, and several guys found me, and when I said no thanks I'd like to sit this one out, they acted quite insulted. I finally had to go out and sit in the car and wait for the friends I was with to be ready to leave. So it does depend on the group and the mores of the leadership. Also, I think that a lot of people aren't taught how to be pleasant and socialble anymore. My bubbe, bless her heart, insisted on teaching me social graces so I could talk and be friendly to all kinds of people like she was. How I hated having to talk and be nice to Mrs. So and So from the laundromat, etc., back then. Seems like she knew everyobody in town and was liked and respected. Now, even though my folks live in the same small town, it just isn't the same, partly because the main street has been replaced by strip malls and folks don't walk along the streets and meet each other as much socially. When bubbe grew up in her little village in Poland, everyone was pretty much stuck with everyone else, not much chance of getting out, so you had to exercise your social grace. A lot of that has fallen by the wayside nowdays. I'm so lucky that in my neighborhood, folks are still pretty neighborly. Anyway, ladies and gentlemen are made, not born, and social graces are learned. I'm sure my thinking is quiet anachronistic by modern standards of behavior.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2005 at 8:23PM
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rosewood42

Men are scared of rejection and appearing like idiots in front of their friends. Trust me it wasn't you or your friends, they were just really insecure.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2006 at 3:27AM
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billibillo909_lycos_com

Why not ask a guy to dance with you? This is not 1950's anymore.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2011 at 7:07AM
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asolo

If they haven't figured it out in eight years, they're not going to.

    Bookmark   February 14, 2011 at 7:58PM
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sayhellonow

I go ballroom dancing a lot (2-3 times a week) and don't have a problem being asked. Here is my strategy:

Have patience. Eventually, I will be asked to dance and, once the fellas see that I really can dance, they begin asking.

Look my very best -- hair, makeup, appropriate clothes

Never refuse anyone a dance unless lewdness or safety are issues.

Smile a lot (it comes naturally to me). I just says "I'm a friendly person."

Express an interest in my dance partner (I like dancing with tall men like you; I like your tie/shirt; How long have you been dancing; and the old standby, Do you come here often?)

Make friends with the other women; they can be a big help to me because quite often they are involved in other things that may be of interest to me.

Move around and visit with people, but avoid getting cornered by any one person, male or female, and, above all, do not get into a "pack." Most men will approach more quickly if I am by myself or talking to only one other woman.

I have made buddies of several men who are "regulars" at the Arts Center where I dance. Sometimes I will call one or two of them ahead of time and ask them if they are going to be present. I have no qualms about saying, "I'm going to the dance and hope you'll be there to dance with me." This way I'm assured of dancing a bit. Obviously, I don't do this if I have a date.

These are some of the things I do, and I've learned them over the years. I haven't always been a great dancer because in high school and college, I was the singer in a band and couldn't dance. So I'm learning a lot.

IMPORTANT: There have been several instances when I have watched someone, male or female, go to the dances and just sit there unnoticed (one little gal sat by herself for nearly two years). Then, out of the blue, someone comes along and they really hit it off, as in the case of the "little gal," who now has a steady boyfriend and dance partner. I have witnessed this several times, and it's very reassuring. Keep the chin up, be your friendly self, and don't give up.

Good luck to you!

    Bookmark   February 18, 2011 at 3:37PM
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obbopp

Psoriasis on the hands.

Lost some teeth over time but the plastic ones fill the gaps but I am not an Adonnis.

Weight/height proportionate.

Well-educated and civil.

Law-abiding and various tests over the years for various jobs; from high-level to low, some requiring the long version of the MMPI and a follow-up interview by a PhD clinical psychologist (required of all applicants who passes several multi-hour written tests.

I passed them all and in more than one was the highest-ranking candidate.

Ample training in interpersonal relationships and possessing extremely high emotional maturity levels YET....

I do not do well when approaching single females at social functions.

I am mid-50s.

In some manner, I "scare" the females.

Admittedly, I have a more-than-normal physique that, in the past, allowed me to cross picket lines and lecture five grown males regarding their anti-social behavior and how it would be to their advantage to settle down and behave civilly.

They stood there and politely listened without interrupting.

I felt compelled to mention all the above to assist ye Ladies in, perhaps, comprehending one man's view and, maybe, understand your own thought process.

I do not attempt to impress when socializing but I AM unable to behave/think at a level too much below what is my natural state.

Sure, my body is showing the effects of decades of hard living when various job requirements took their toll upon the body.

And time is not always kind to all yet I am far from totally physically repugnant.

Ladies, "Alpha Male" is a very subjective term that is interpreted in so MANY ways.

I am not going to attempt to define it from my viewpoint.

I CAN, perhaps, partially explain it by stating that over the years, from my late teens onwards, I have been asked numerous times if I was a law enforcement person (LEO)... even when longer hair, beards, etc. was normal and that was the "look" I had.

Well, I NEVER attempted to come across as a cop and other than being a shore patrolman in the toughest meanest most dangerous ports in the Orient I was never a LEO.

Seems to me so many of today's wimmenfolks want or desire an emasculated male.

The skinny, wimpy "politically correct" possessor of physical perfection.

"He's too forward!!"

"He scares me!!!" (Yes, I have heard that and I am the guy who stepped and stopped the abduction from the females apartment at 2AM by the idiotic male while ALL the other males retreated).

At various local gatherings where I had NO physical desire for ANY of the females present the females I approached civilly and "properly" left those events early.

I was rebuffed or ignored.

Oh well.

No loss.

Just something to think about.

Admittedly, I AM in an area where the majority of residents are, in general, possessing minimal educational attainments and possessors of what I label a "hillbilly" style of acculturation; this area being the western outpost of earlier Scotch-Irish Appalachian-based migration.

Doubt this lengthy diatribe assists thee but it IS a conveyor of ideas, thoughts, observations, etc.

Oh...dancing? Never did care for it and with the present defective feet unable to dance except, perhaps, at a very slow shuffle.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2011 at 12:48PM
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