Teachers caught cheating in Chicago

FlowergirlDeb2October 6, 2002

Has anyone read or heard this story about the teachers accussed of cheating on a standardized test in elementary schools on chicago? If so, what is your opinion? I will post a link so you can read the story!!

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sheilajoyce_gw

That happens here and there. A problem with test security and character.

    Bookmark   October 7, 2002 at 5:29AM
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duckie

I'm not particularly surprised, although I don't know the particulars of this case. A small subset of teachers, like any other group of people, will cheat. We might want to define them as perfect role models, but we would be foolish to do so. I suspect there are precious few college course requirements called "Educational Ethics".

    Bookmark   October 7, 2002 at 8:55AM
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Mommabear

There was a similar story here in FL. But there is a twist. There is really very little evidence that the teacher here in FL did anything wrong. It seems like school officials are walking on eggshells because the FCAT was involved.

Mommabear

    Bookmark   October 7, 2002 at 9:07AM
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Mommabear

One of the articles is attached.

Here is a link that might be useful: Teacher Cheating on FCAT?

    Bookmark   October 7, 2002 at 9:09AM
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Arkansasgardenboy

Mommabear,
Hmmmmmmmmmm. Small matters in a mole hill.. Not much news in Florida schools if this is all they have to print. I don't see this being a problem in Arkansas. We still paddle their rears.....

    Bookmark   October 7, 2002 at 8:21PM
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Mommabear

And you think that's a GOOD THING?

    Bookmark   October 8, 2002 at 1:35PM
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Arkansasgardenboy

Mommabear,
I know it is a good thing. It is the correct thing to do. I know it is the "out" thing in today's society. It works. My parents proved it, the Bible teaches it and my wife and myself practiced it and it works.
Do you need any more proof that it is the thing to do?

    Bookmark   October 8, 2002 at 9:57PM
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FlowergirlDeb2

I put a link on the forum for the particular article that I was referring to here in Chicago. Also, Gardenboy, you should KNOW how much respect I have for you...but when it comes to corporal punishment, and hitting kids I have to say that I disagree strongly. Check out the story on the post with the link that I did.

    Bookmark   October 8, 2002 at 11:56PM
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Mommabear

The Bible is irrelevant in school. The only law that matters in school is the laws pertaining to the state in which the school is located. Paddling in school is permitted in FL but our district has a policy forbidding it. I think it is a PARENT'S DECISION whether to spank or not. However, that discretion does NOT extend to anyone else. Anyone who touches my kids in a way I deem inappropriatecan expect to find themselves in court. And I do not think "the Bible made me do it" will stand up in that forum.

Anyway the link was provided wrt the FCAT cheating allegations.

Mommabear

    Bookmark   October 9, 2002 at 10:08AM
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FlowergirlDeb2

Anyway...what about the cheating thing?? Do you all who read it agree that these teachers should be fired? I don't. The tests they have been accussed of cheating on were STANDARDIZED tests, and in all 3 schools the majority of students are low income families. Which means that there had to be A LOT riding on the results, don't you think? If teachers felt threatened enough to cheat, they shouldn't be put in that kind of situation to begin with. The government is closing the doors to the schools that don't meet the high "standards" set forth by the "No Child Left Behind" act. Anyway....something to consider.

    Bookmark   October 10, 2002 at 11:47PM
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duckie

What IF those tests were "pass this proficency test to see if you can graduate" AND what if the people cheating were students? Would they have less riding on the outcome of the test? What if it was students taking the SATs?

Generally, I don't buy little punishment because there was a lot riding on the outcome. I MIGHT feel differently if these teachers were the ones who were always very vocal about not liking these tests. Vocal in the sence that the school board members cringe whenever they see these particular teachers. Vocal in the sence that their state representitives immediately connect their names to their position against the tests. Not necessarily vocal in the teacher lounge complaing session.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2002 at 8:03AM
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Arkansasgardenboy

The Bible is above any standard man may mandate.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2002 at 11:35AM
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FlowergirlDeb2

I don't know if these particular teachers were against standardized testing, but the students weren't punished, or the principal. They weren't SAT's, they were ISAT or another type like that. I just think that firing these teachers is a mistake, they obviously cared enough about their jobs and the children to take such a risk...there is a link to the actual article on the forum.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2002 at 11:36PM
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duckie

The tests were the ITEDs. The article did mention that the tests were used to determine "whether students get promoted and whether teachers and principals are sanctioned", but I did not see it mention that these tests were used to determine if the school would close or not. That might be the case, but it is not in that article. The article didn't mention the economic situation of the children at the schools. Two schools were mentioned in connection to how the instructions were interpreted. A person NOT living in Chicago would not know the economics of the neighborhoods of those schools. The article does say that some of the principals will be reprimanded.

How does helping the children cheat (the children may or may not have realized they were cheating) actually help the children? There is a lot riding on a lot of tests and test like activities, driving test, bar exam, taxes. Certainly cheating happens in all of those circumstances. Is society served by ignoring the cheating if there is "ALOT riding on the results?"

    Bookmark   October 12, 2002 at 7:20AM
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duckie

Sorry, the tests were the Iowa Test of Basic Skills.

    Bookmark   October 12, 2002 at 2:10PM
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Mommabear

Flowergirl:

I think you are letting your dislike of standardized tests get ahead of good judgement. If the teachers were caught helping kids cheat they should be fired. They should also lose their teaching license. End of story.

This is a simple case of right and wrong. It is WRONG to help students cheat on tests. It makes no difference whether you like the tests or not. Or whether the students were low income (why does this matter).

Mommabear

    Bookmark   October 14, 2002 at 1:08PM
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Arkansasgardenboy

Mommabear,
I agree with you concerning cheating. If teachers are allowed to cheat what are you to teach the children? It is good I have found something to agree with you.

    Bookmark   October 15, 2002 at 10:33AM
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April02

Did anybody read the Reader's Digest article last month about the teacher who was fired recently for failing her students for cheating? She was also on Oprah- I couldn't find a link though.

It scares me to know that so many parents out there are encouraging their children to cheat. These cheaters are going to grow up to be teachers who have no problems with cheating!

    Bookmark   October 22, 2002 at 3:52PM
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Arkansasgardenboy

The following link has a good article you may find beneficial.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0116_Teaching_the_Virtues.html

    Bookmark   October 22, 2002 at 10:38PM
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FlowergirlDeb2

My point is that teachers SHOULD NOT feel forced into such a position that they choose cheating as the only option. The articel that I linked to wasn't the exact one that was in the paper here, which did have a breakdown of SES, and these schools are all in poor communities. IF we didn't have such VALUE placed on the tests than the teachers wouldn't be in such a position.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2002 at 11:26PM
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duckie

But we DO place a value on tests, and we DO place a value on teachers setting an example. To say that we shouldn't is one discussion. To accept the fact that we currently do, and to talk about repurcussions of teacher led cheating is a different discussion. Most people here assumed you wanted a discussion about what had happened with THAT test and THOSE teachers in THIS culture. It appears you wanted a more general discussion about the value placed on tests and the stresses that causes. Perhaps you would find more success by starting a new thread.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2002 at 6:21AM
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FlowergirlDeb2

Ok, sounds good, because I intended on using the article as a foundation for a general discussion on the teachers feeling the pressure of test scores, and resorting to cheating!

    Bookmark   October 26, 2002 at 12:57AM
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Mommabear

The teachers are wrong to cheat.

If I speed on a road where the speed limit is 30 can I just say that I shouldn't get a ticket because the speed limit should have been higher? That's ridiculous.

Mommabear

    Bookmark   October 26, 2002 at 2:03PM
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