Shingles overhanging fascia: Is this going to be a problem?

ElectraTooJune 30, 2013

A little background: This house is a recent build. The architect did not recommend gutters for this house (ridiculous if you could see how complicated the roof line is), and I hate the look of gutters so I did not put them on at the time of the build. Having lived here about 6 months now, I can see how they're absolutely necessary; I'm cutting a trench all the way around the house every time it rains.

Anyway, I've so far had two guys out to quote the gutters. First guy also does roofs and he did not mention anything about the overhang of the shingles. The second guy, however, says he won't even do the job unless we get spots like the one in the picture fixed first. He's saying the shingles need to overhang about an inch everywhere. That's fine for about 85% of the house but then there are spots like this one where they barely overhang the fascia at all.

My question has three parts:

1. Is the lack of consistent overhang a problem?
2. If so, is adding another row of shingles in the trouble spots the right solution to the problem?
3. Who screwed up here so I know who to complain to? Was this the roofer's fault or the guy who did the fascia trim?

Thanks in advance!

Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I've solved this by inserting aluminum flashing underneath the shingles to extend far enough so rain from the roof does not fall between the gutter and the facia, even when the gutter pulls away a small amount.
The roofer should have left a uniform width of shingle extending past the drip-edge. It looks better if it's all the same.I leave about 3/4" as measured from the facia face.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2013 at 11:07PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

3/8ths is common overhang. I see no need to address overhang since the facia has that lip at top. Secound only to a valley,that's the worst place on a roof to mess with. It's almost a cinch that trying to add anytning under there will break/crack some existing shingles and pull nails partly through others.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2013 at 12:25AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Facia goes on first then the roof. Roofer should fix.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2013 at 8:45PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

stash is correct the roofer screwed the pooch. The correct way to do it is have the roofer fix it. Supposed to start at the fascia and work your way to the peak so he screwed up from jump street so it's up to you............

    Bookmark   July 2, 2013 at 8:48AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

The facia corner is not done very well, looks like the corner is open. The shingles are also cut at the corner such that you may get water behind the Facia. See if closing the corner brings the Facia under the shingle.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 7:29PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

You have a compounded issue.

I see no drip edge, which some localities do not require, but I'm a firm believe in it.

Shingles are supposed to overhang the drip edge up to 1".

The other problem is the sider bent a lip outward (read a water catch), which the water/splash will be directed everywhere including behind the aluminum fascia. With the sider using their brake to bend an outward lip, you will never get drip edge on properly without modifying the sider's work.

Had the roof had drip edge, the sider _should_ have *kinked* the aluminum for strength and ran behind the drip edge.

IMO, they both screwed up.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 2:50PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thanks all for the feedback! Here's an update:

Spoke to the roofer today and they are willing to "fix" the shingles at the corners and valleys.

As far the lack of drip edge, their original estimate and invoice I paid included installing 44 pieces of drip edge (12 ft pieces).

They claim the general contractor told them to leave it off. I'm of the opinion that it really doesn't matter if he did or didn't because I paid for a drip edge and it's not there so either put it on or give me a credit. Their response is they can put the drip edge on now but that the fascia must come off first because of that lip at the top of it.

More questions if anyone is still reading!!

1) Do you think the fascia really needs to come off to install the drip edge or is this just another way for them to try and get out of doing it?

2) What would be a fair credit for material and labor for the missing drip edge?

3) They have suggested using a gutter company that installs something called a "gutter helmet" as a solution. Link is below. Do you think this is a reasonable solution for this problem?

4) Regardless of who is to blame, what is the most reasonable and proper way to fix this mess so I don't agree to something that won't really fix it in the end.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gutter Helmet - How It Works

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 8:41PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

material costs are cheap, its labor you pay for.
re-do should be on roofer at no cost to you.
should be but may not be that depends on roofer.
at this point..not a lot of faith in someone who
screws up at very start of job & never catches
it during whole install.

I'd have an independent inspect 'repair' as it
is ongoing. kind of to oversee correct repair.
they've really horked things up that we can see
just from the pics posted.
I know a home inspector who oversees repairs..
so that may be a source also.
make some calls...see who is experienced &
do you have a carpenter's local union hall?
call & see if they can recommend a retired roofing
guy..a good one. and hire him/her to hang out
and oversee the repairs.

drip edge extends roof edges by 1".
so this means now another set of starter
shingles at edges of roof.
then the drip edge goes over facia.

to repeat:
drip edge..under starter course of shingles..
over facia.
felt over drip edge.

the felt of roof decking (under shingles)
goes OVER drip edge.

and you'd better believe I'd put a ladder
at the eaves of the roof & make sure there
was felt or roofing membrane of some sort
under shingles. this is one of the two
water barriers, shingles being second barrier.

if drip edge goes on top of felt/roofing membrand
then water will go behind drip edge rotting edges
of roof.

I'm almost afraid to ask about the valleys...
what is going on there? can you post a pic?
no valley flashing?

gutter helmet is an acessory to gutters.
you still have to have gutters installed.
and if you have pine trees nearby...the
3/8" gap will block up.

gutters are screwed into rafter tails...otherwise
it will pull facia away from edges of roof & allow
water to enter. my SO's mother's house has this
problem. they nailed gutters into wooden facia
and now the facia & soffit (plywood) are rotting.

water does a lot of damage. roofs shed a lot of
water. it isn't IF they will leak..but at what point
they will leak.

take some time & make sure it is done right this
time. they probably won't come back again after
the scope of this 'repair'.

best of luck.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2013 at 9:45PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

energy_rater is spot on and I would also be very afraid of what your pictures do not show like mentioned. If they screwed up something as basic as that at the start then the valleys and ridges would be a huge question mark for me.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2013 at 8:49AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Gosh, it seems there have been opinions ranging from it's fine like it is to rip the whole roof off and start over!

Here are some more (possibly) relevant facts to some of the things I've read on here:

It was incorrectly assumed that the fascia was put on first. It was not. The roof was put on first and then the fascia.

On the majority of the roof there is an overhang of the shingles of about a half-inch. The picture posted is an example of handful of places where the shingles do not overhang the fascia. Most of these places are either a corner or a valley. The roofer wants to send his guy back out to fix those areas.

Roofer tells me that when they do install a drip edge, they normally cut the shingles back to the edge of the drip edge. I can look around my neighborhood and see that this is true. Others on here have mentioned they leave up to an inch of overhang. Is this just a difference in the way roofs are done in different areas?

A 3ft ice and water barrier was applied to all valleys and eaves - roofer called it "3 ft of rubber" and seemed to think that should be relevant somehow. If it's not covering the fascia board underneath then I don't think I care.

Of course a gutter helmet would go over a gutter. That's how we got here - trying to get gutters installed. There are no pine trees in any direction as far as I can see. Are there any other objections to this as a solution?

I read on another message board where a roofer said he ran into this a lot (using fascia as a drip edge) and that his solution was to score the top lip of the fascia, break it off and install the drip edge. Any thoughts on that?

    Bookmark   July 9, 2013 at 9:47AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hate to say, but you got taken. I would not allow anyone who could not install correctly in the first place, to try to correct mistakes they didn't even know they made.

Forget gutter helmet, that won't fix your problems.

I don't know who you're referring to, as far as someone thinking the fascia was put on first. It's really irrelevant considering the problems on hand.

You may have paid for 12' pieces, but to my knowledge, the longest you can get is 10' pieces, unless someone _brakes_ their own. Considering the scope of workmanship you have, I doubt they would know how. This is coming from an old roofer with over 20+ years experience, whose specialty was in flashing of chimneys & junctures.

Do _NOT_ let anyone score the lip & break it off. In my original post to you, I stated siders will *kink* the fascia when bent for strength. If they score and break the lip off, the fascia will become _wavy_. That is the reason to kink/crimp aluminum, to keep it from becoming wavy. If anything, modifying the existing lip would be best to bend it forward all the way over.

Which, leaves another problem. In order to get drip edge on, the ice/water shield needs placed on _top_ of the drip edge. Not gonna happen since it's stuck to the deck. Also, the shingles are too short to overhang any drip edge.

Search how far shingles are supposed to overhang drip edge. The roofer doesn't have a clue by telling you they are cut back to the drip edge. He's the wrong person to ask. The problem is, the roofer didn't have a clue what a chalkline is when installing the roof. You can look around _your_ neighborhood, but do a search. Probably the same roofer did homes in _your_ neighborhood is why there is not any overhang on the drip edge.

It's been some years since I've done roofs, and would have to look up the specification on ice/water shield. But, if my memory serves me correctly, ice/water shield should run 3' into the thermal envelope. Meaning, 3' into the conditioned space. I could be wrong on this one, it may be only 2'. But, with the amount of overhang you have +rise, would be cutting it close by just using 3' of ice/water shield.

To correct the problems you have, I would seek another source instead of the one you have been dealing with.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2013 at 5:08PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

You may have paid for 12' pieces, but to my knowledge, the longest you can get is 10' pieces,

that is true. box stores & even mom & pop lumber
companies sell 10' drip edge.

it is your call...if you can/want/decide to live with be it.

we were just answering what you posted as your

I've never ever seen shingles flush with drip edge.
shingles are installed in a straight line so the first
shingle determines amount shingle will overhang
drip edge.

if only 15% of the roof has this issue...then have
the 15% repaired.

I don't recall anyone saying tear it off...but you do
have reason to be concerned.
for most of us..
the pics you posted would be unacceptable.
as to the condition of the rest of the roof...
we can't see it from here.
same with the trees...the view is difficult from our
compter screens.

best of luck.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2013 at 6:31PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Decided to get more involved with your project, then your roofer took the time to.

This is from Certainteed's installation site for the Landmark shingle. I realize you may not have this particular covering, but it is for an "example"

-Snap chalklines to assure shingles will be correctly aligned.

-Make sure there is 1âÂÂ2" overhanging the rakes and eaves if drip edge is being used. If you are not using drip edge, make theoverhang 3âÂÂ4".

    Bookmark   July 9, 2013 at 7:13PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hey, thanks for the replies - I didn't mean to make anyone mad!! I'm just surprised that my research, both online and in real life, is bearing out that there appears to be no straightforward answer but many competing opinions.

The gutter helmet is a non-starter. Talked to that guy today and I could pull the fascia off and have it reinstalled cheaper than that stuff.

More roofers coming tomorrow to weigh in with even more differing opinions I'm sure!

The shingles are GAF and it is a steep roof so I went to their site to look for installation information. Their site says at least 3/8" and no more than 3/4". Also says flush with drip edge is ok. See below.

GAF site ALSO said drip edge should be installed under underlayment but then went on to state that sometimes local codes says it should be installed over it and that you should go with local code.

Is it any wonder I'm having trouble arriving at a "correct" solution?? Ugh.

While I was on the GAF site, I looked up my roofing company. They are certified, recommended and get glowing reviews. Why am I always the exception!?!

Info from GAF site...
How Should Shingles Be Installed Over Drip Edge?
Shingles should be installed over the drip edge a minimum of
3/8â at both the eave edge and the rake edge.

If the drip edge extends...out from the rakes and eaves (typically called DL Style or DType), the shingles may be installed flush with the drip edge.

Can Shingles Extend Too Far beyond the Drip Edge?
Shingles should not extend more than 3/4â past the drip edge.
If shingles overhang the edge of the roof by more than
3/4âÂÂ, then they are not supported and may crack and break off. In addition, the wind resistance at the roof edge may be compromised.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2013 at 8:00PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

If you feel it's ok to run the shingles flush with drip edge, that's up to you. The problem is: There's _NO_ drip edge. If there were, the shingles would surely be too short, since they're too short now. From the looks of it, some just make it to the edge of the sheathing. You may want to look up the term "capillary action roofing". Then, decide for yourself.

Good luck

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 4:35PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Since the manufacturers instructions say it's ok to install flush with a d-style drip edge, then yes, I would be ok with it. Assuming a d-style drip edge can be properly installed.

I'm confused as to why you think the shingles are too short to be flush with a drip edge if one is added. Unless the d style drip edge extends further than 3/4" beyond the edge of the roof? If they are 3/4" or shorter then flush should not be a problem. I guess I need to research that next!

In case it's not clear why I'm confused, here's why: That lip on the aluminum fascia extends 3/4" beyond the fascia board and very slightly further from the edge of the roof. Even at their shortest, which is depicted in the original picture I posted, those shingles are somewhere between 5/8" - 3/4" from the edge of the roof. If that's clear as mud, see the link below for an illustration of what I'm trying to say.

And yes, "capillary action" and "wicking" were the very terms mentioned by the gutter people! They were the ones who suggested having the roofers put a drip edge on it before they install the gutters.

Here is a link that might be useful: Roof and Fascia Illustration

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 5:57PM
Sign Up to comment
More Discussions
How to fix 1" gaps in drywall seams?
We recently bought our home (build in 1938). One of...
Can you clear my doubt about home security system?
I have a home security system installed recently. Do...
Heating tool
Picked this for free at an estate sale. Wood burning,...
T1-11 siding: Replacing rusted z-flashing?
I have several questions about z-flashing for T1-11...
advice plzzz on how to keep neighbors plants growing under fence
I rent. I get a big discount doing the gardening so...
Sponsored Products
Home Bazaar Beachside Cottage Birdhouse - HB-9301S
$44.55 | Hayneedle
Home Bazaar Victorian Manor Birdhouse - HB-2043
$117.00 | Hayneedle
Lazy Hill Farms Bird Feeder - 41501
$299.99 | Hayneedle
Blue Nantucket Cottage Birdhouse
$29.99 | zulily
Little Cottage 8 x 12 Stratford Schoolhouse Wood Playhouse Multicolor - 8X12STRA
Little Cottage 8 x 12 Firehouse Wood Playhouse - 8X12FIREHOUSE W/O FLOOR KIT
Little Cottage 11 x 10 Pennfield Cottage Wood Playhouse - 11X10PENNFIELD
Home Bazaar Victorian Small Dog House - Green - KSHB-002DHG
$359.00 | Hayneedle
People viewed this after searching for:
© 2015 Houzz Inc. Houzz® The new way to design your home™