Stand up for yourself.........

budsterApril 15, 2004

While picking up some groceries I noticed they advertised that if the French Bread was not hot at a certain time then it was free....fine, it was 5 PM and the bread they had out was cold as ice.....I took 3 (which I had planned to buy anyway) and went to the cashier taking them and the rest of my cart of groceries...the cashier rang them through at normal price....I questioned as to why I got charged...she said, I have to call bakery, which she did and I was told that the "hot" bread was coming out of the oven and they would run me up 3...I said NO I want these 3 and they are cold and I am checking out....The cashier then had to call the customer service and was told to charge me but that I would have to go over to customer service and redeem my money....fine.....over to customer service where they again try to say..well, we have hot bread now....I just said NO It was 5 when I was cashing out and the cold bread is free...guess what...because I pushed it and stood firm, I got the 3 cold ones free plus a hot one free....bottom line, don't be willing to settle and make them stand by store policy. OK a dull story but true.

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I try to stand up for myself too.

I was shopping at Wal-Mart the other day and when I got home, I had cherry pop tarts in my sack. I checked my list and sure enough I'd been charged for it. I hadn't picked up any pop tarts, we don't eat cherry, and the kids couldn't have grabbed it since we hadn't been down that aisle. I took it back and was told that Wal-Mart doesn't accept returns on food unless there is something wrong with the food. I stood there and complained until I got my money back. This is the 3rd time in a year that someone elses order has been mixed into mine. I try to watch the food ringing up, but don't always get a chance with the kids. I don't accept having to pay for and keep products that I don't want and didn't ask for.

    Bookmark   April 15, 2004 at 8:37PM
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Here is my 'stand up for yourself' story.

The bottled water had a sign. Three 6-packs for 6.00.

I chose it because of that - it was not the brand I normally buy.

I go to pay, and it rings up much higher. The check out lady says sorry, that sale is over. I protested because the sign is still up.

Their policy is - if it scans wrong it's free.

So she says to me, "If I send the bagboy back to check if the sign is really there, and confirm your story, you get it free. OR we could get you checked out quicker, not inconvenience the people behind you, and forget about that, and I'll just give you 50 cents off."

Ok I know there were people in line behind me but we're talking $6 bucks here! And the fact that she would make this optional burned me up.

I said, "Send him to get the sign!" She was very purturbed. I did nicely apologize to the lady behind me in line, and she said, "for $6 I'd do the same thing!" After all, is it the customers' fault that the sign was left up after the sale was over?

So the bagboy came back (in under 30 seconds because we were not that far from the water aisle) with the sign and I got my $6!

    Bookmark   April 16, 2004 at 7:57AM
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Now you did exactly what I would do.....and I'd not think twice of the people behind me waiting....after all I'd expect wait if someone in front of me had a difference of opinion...the world of give and take. Adella Walmart seems to make a habit of this in my part of the country too. Good stories thanks for posting...

    Bookmark   April 16, 2004 at 12:52PM
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I did much the same with fish, a few years ago.

Meat guy said it was last week's offer, I said I should get it at that price, after some fussing, did.

(10 min later) I revisited the area.

The sign was still up.

I asked for the manager, took him to the display, asked him why the meat guy hadn't removed the sign.

He spluttered some, had an inadequate answer.

It was just at the time that they were beginning to use the bar code system - with the price on the edge of the store shelf - but not on the product (in a message that humans can understand).

I told the manager that such was exactly the reason that many were unhappy with the idea of not having the price shown on the product.

Question: Why can't it be printed in numerals on the box where the bar code resides?

Answer: Because the store may decide to change the price tomorrow - all that they need do is alter it in the central computer, and all of the registers will show it - but it won't show correctly on the package.

Bye, bye, all - my membership runs out today.

I was warned a couple of weeks ago, and neglected to send the money in the meantime - running 25 mile round trip to sleep at step-uncle's house to preclude break-ins.

Car being repaired, major engine job - supposed to be done last week, also today - almost done (but not quite).

Van uses about twice rate of gas that car does - which troubles my frugal heart.

Must do major body work on van - or cops will take it off the road. Need to wear seat belt as there's major hole in floor.

Good wishes - till we meet again.

(as always - well, almost) ole joyful

    Bookmark   April 16, 2004 at 3:14PM
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An even better way to save money would be to stop spending it on bottled water. It speaks volumes of the power and persuasiveness of the American marketing machine that it has convinced tens of millions of otherwise sensible, frugal people to spend their money on something they could get for frees.

    Bookmark   April 16, 2004 at 5:07PM
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I keep bottled water on hand for emergencies. I don't trust a used milk container to be clean enough to hold water for several weeks at a time. In this day & age I think we should be prepared for any emergency. I have canned food, bottled water, blankets, clothes, flashlights, etc. in a convenient location in case we need to grab and go.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2004 at 6:16AM
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Ole Joyful, say it aint so!! You gotta save some money on something and plunk down the fifteen. Let's see---15 bucks---that's 15 bottles of diet soda, or about 4 containers of Skinny Cows----or one meal out---or 1 fillup or gas (you really don't need to travel this week, now do you?).

My Dh drinks the bottled water. I get tired of fussing with him about it, so what if he's driving us to the poorhouse!!!! He used to be this way about ice. We had a very tiny fridge, he doesn't like using ice trays---wanted a large BAG of ice. We fussed so much about it, I got very mean and told him that when he died I would put a big bag of ice in his coffin with him.

My Wal-mart woes----I've gotten home and not had all of my groceries---they told me to come back and bring my ticket and pick some more up. BEWARE----sometimes those check-out people get so busy they forget to give you all of the bags. They're filling up two or three at a time with different items. Very aggravating to get home and THEN find out.

I know that I don't stand up for myself enough----I did fuss about a $3.00 sign that was in front of some large clay pots (it was the end of summer) but apparently the sign was for some plants that were in front of the clay pots----that had all been sold. I told them the sign was there! They wound up giving me the pots at three bucks.

Another thing that I need to watch is the fruit---like single pears and apples----sometimes what they ring up is not what the signs in front of the fruit says.

PS I do love shopping at Wal-marts and we bought a reconditioned lawnmower that looked like brand new there for $50.00. This is our third year to use it and it's working fine.

    Bookmark   April 17, 2004 at 10:54PM
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I know it's somewhat of a splurge but there are a few things I do for the sake of convenience because of time saved (won't get into it) but if I were no longer working as many hours as I am, I'd be wayyy more frugal.

When I am at home, I drink tap water because the fluoride is key to good health --- AND it's free. But in ways too boring to explain here, the money spent on the bottles saves me time in enough quantity that it's justified to my personal satisfaction.

But don't judge me by thinking that I drink it INSTEAD Of tap water due to some brainwashing by the manufacturers.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2004 at 8:10AM
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You 're not trying to tell me it would take longer for you to fill up the empty bottles at home and take them with you than to stop at the store, buy bottled water, cart it off with you, dispose of the empty bottles, etc, are you? That's got to be . . . I think I better stop here.

Bottom line, it's your call what you prefer to spend money on. Speaking for myself, when I choose to splurge, it's definitely not on water.

All this reminds of a guy I work with whose family is addicted to Perrier. He thinks it's a dumb way to spend money, so he simply takes the old bottles, refills them with tap water and puts them back in the fridge. Nobody notices the difference. Now there's a money-saving tip for you!

    Bookmark   April 19, 2004 at 4:20PM
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I also keep bottled water on hand for my mother when she visits. She can't stand the way our water tastes.

Wouldn't you think The Perrier guy's family would notice the lids aren't sealed? LOL

    Bookmark   April 19, 2004 at 5:24PM
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The amount of bottled water sold amazes me, most of it is just some other cities tap water. I think I was the last person in the country to hear about putting a little water in the bottles and freezing them. I was dumb enough to ask someone, "how did you get that big ice cube in that bottle? I had a brain f***, I guess.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2004 at 7:53PM
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If you had well water as nasty as mine, you would drink bottled water!
Kathy G in MI

    Bookmark   April 19, 2004 at 11:44PM
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Oh well, such a tangent. Thanks Maxwell.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2004 at 7:48AM
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People buy what they want and figure it as a bargain in their own some it is a others it is a total waste of money - live and let live.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2004 at 9:52AM
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See, I'm old enough to remember way, way back when almost no one bought bottled water in this country. That would be about 25 years ago. This was something Europeans did, supposedly because their municiple water systems were no good.

What a change in such a short time! Industry figures say that American bought 6.4 billion gallons of bottled water in 2003. Why is it now a "necessity," when it was almost unheard of not all that long ago?

I realize this is OT for this thread, but certainly appropos to the subject of Money Saving Tips.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2004 at 11:06AM
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I won't get into why I buy what I buy. All I said was do not judge me. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Maxwell, I guess there is not one item you buy that others might judge (if they were the judging type) a bit of a splurge, a convenience item, or a concession to some company's marketing strategy.

We frequent this forum because we are frugal, and I am very frugal. I think there was a thread once here about what we go to great lengths to save money on, versus areas we admittedly splurge. To each his own.

    Bookmark   April 21, 2004 at 7:35AM
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To each his own, I agree Karen. Nice to see you here!


    Bookmark   April 21, 2004 at 8:05AM
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Actually, I'm more puzzled than anything else. I know the industry pushes bottled water as a convenience, but I don't understand how anything could be more convenient than drinking tapwater. Maybe there's something here I'm missing.

Can some other bottled water fan explain it to me?

    Bookmark   April 22, 2004 at 1:29PM
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To each his own.

There are many things besides bottled water that people buy for their own reasons. What's convenient to one isn't to another. And we should not have to explain ourselves.

Coke in a twoliter bottle is cheaper, yet many folks buy it in 12-pack cans. Should they explain themselves?

It is ok for people to have different preferences. If we didn't have differences, life would be boring.

    Bookmark   April 22, 2004 at 1:33PM
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I understand you don't want to explain it, Karen, and that's certainly your perogative. That's why I directed my question to others. I'm not at all trying to pick on anyone, but I am curious about the whole bottled-water phenomenon.

I understand why people with bad well water would drink it. I understand why someone would keep it for an emergency. I also understand taking it on hikes or loading up for long car trips. What I'm curious about is why people with acceptable tap water prefer to undertake the touble and expense of buying bottled water for everyday use.

This is not just idle curiosity on my part. There are important environmental issues surrounding bottled water, particularly in my state (Michigan) where bottled water companies have moved in and started pumping out groundwater. There's at least one court case charging that this paractice cause subsidence to the neighboring landowners -- ie, when they pump out the groudwater, the adjacent land collapses.

Then there's the problem of disposing of the billions of plastic bottled water containers. In Michigan, we have a bottle deposit law, but it only covers carbonated beverages. The bottled water companies have fought tooth and nail any attempt to expand the law to cover their product, with the result that you see empty Ice Mountain containers all over the landscape.

Of course, I know no one on here would do anything like that, but you know how people can be.

    Bookmark   April 22, 2004 at 3:07PM
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I don't intent to offend anyone here, so I apologize in advance if I do.

No one lives in a vacuum. We are all part of communities. And communities are part of larger communities, and larger communities make up the world. There is only one world.

The actions of one member of a community affect all members of that community, and by extension, all members of all communities everywhere.

The example of bottle water is a good one. When I buy a bottle of water, I should be thinking about the communities that have been affected by the decision I made.

The bottle needs to be made somewhere, out of something (oil). The oil comes from a community, maybe half way around the world, where the community where the oil is withdrawn, has drill rigs and pumping equipment in these communities. (I don't imagine a drill rig is a good neighbor). The oil goes into a tanker ship, and passes many communities along the water as it travels to its destination. Sometimes the oil spills out of tankers, affecting those costal communities in the path of the oil spill.

The oil then arrives at a refinery. Refineries are also located in communities. Oil refining is a nasty, polluting process, even with pollution controls. The pollution affects the communities the refineries are located in, and those that are down wind.

The refined oil is then made into plastic bottles, in a plant that is located in a community. The bottles are then shipped, usually by truck, through some communities. The act of shipping the bottle by truck means that roads were built for the truck. Anyone who has lived next to a busy road, with lots of truck traffic, can tell you of the noise and pollution. Not good things to have in ones own community.

The bottles then arrive at the water bottling plant. As this plant withdraws water from the ground, the ground subsides. This affects the property around the water bottling plant, the land that is in the plant's community. Foundations may shift and crack, making houses unstable or uninhabitable. Uninhabitable houses canÂt be taxed; reducing revenues to the community, which means that the other members of the community much pay for the loss of revenue; this affect all those community members.

When I am finished drinking the water in the bottle, if I am careless, and toss that bottle on the ground, it becomes litter in someoneÂs community, and affects those members of that community, because they have to look at it, or clean it up. If I recycle that bottle, the bottle is shipped, prolly by truck. A truck has to drive through some communities to get to the sorting facility, which is located in someone's community. It then goes by truck, through more communities, to another plant, in another community, where it is turned into another product, maybe producing pollution, which affects those communities where the plant is located, and those communities that are down wind.

The notion "to each their own", is a fantasy. It is this mentality that divides us, that is slowing destroying our communities, and the world, in which we live.

The bottle (bottom) line here is, EVERY thing we do, EVERY decision we make, EVERY product we purchase, affects EVERYONE, EVERYWHERE. In that regard, we all MUST justify all our actions to everyone. That is, if we expect to have a world where our children's children's children can live healthy, prosperous lives, in peace with each other, with all communities, everywhere.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2004 at 1:28PM
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The notion "to each their own", is a fantasy.

He who is without sin...

Are you perfect? There is nothing you wear, use, rent, live in, or drive that I could be judgmental to you on, if I were the judging type?

Am I condemned to a life sentence for my one ode to convenience? Regardless of all the other areas in which I conserve, respect Mother Earth, avoid polluting, feed the needy, recycle and rescue animals for example?

And for the record, since you say I must JUSTIFY, I do NOT litter, ever. EVER.

Get a life! Oh sorry, you can't. You are too busy writing up the jstification of all your actions for us to read. Because since you are completely innocent of offense, you must have a long justification write-up. Be careful. The lead in the pencil you write up the justification with might poke someone's eye out. Probably mine.

Sorry I ever posted about standing up for myself. The more I stand up for myself here, the more harshly I am judged.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2004 at 7:16PM
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I do not judge you. It is not my job to do so....I am interested in everyone's opinion ... I am interested in others lifestyles and their choice of options. I hope you continue to post and stand up for your opinions.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2004 at 10:58PM
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TREKaren - my apologies, I was hoping that you would not take my post critically. My post was not an attempt to criticize anyone. I am NOT condemning you, or anyone, to anything. I am not without my faults (is anyone?). I am not trying to justify anything that I, or anyone, might or might not do.

I have tremendous freedoms in this country (we all do), and I for one am proud (and fortunate) to be an American and to enjoy these freedoms. But the greater the freedoms that I have, the greater the responsibilities I have to bear. These freedoms don't require me to justify my actions or decisions to anyone. But these freedoms don't mean that I don't have to justify my actions and decisions to myself, in the context of the greater whole. Because often I dont, and I know that I must. I believe this makes me a hypocrite.

The point of my post was not to say that what someone does or doesn't do is "good" or "bad", but more along the lines of "think about others before you exercise your freedoms". All our individual decisions and actions have both positive and negative consequences, large or miniscule, on all of us. We are all, inextricably, woven together, in a continuous fabric, and the fabrics weave gets tighter and tighter, day-by-day. That's all.

Again, apologize.

Did I mention my money saving tip? Brew beer at home. You cant get fresher beer, at half the price of store-bought.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2004 at 9:45AM
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I often here on these forums "It's his/her personal choice" as if that should somehow be the end of the discussion. It's one's personal choice to do a great many things, some having no impact on others, some beneficial to everyone, and others heneficial to ourselves and detrimental to others.

Unless we can say for sure that some of our personal choices have no impact on anyone else, than I think they're fair game for discussion on a public forum. Especially when the comments are polite and respectful, like Brewbeer's, the purpose of which was to raise awareness about the impact on other people of doing something as simple as buying bottled water. It's an interesting and well-thought out analysis and raises some points I hadn't thought of. Each of us can make whatever use of it we want.

Getting back to the original subject of this thread, I don't think that standing up for ourselves should require any of us to slam someone else.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2004 at 3:04PM
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I use bottled water by the five gallon jug. We use it because we are on a well.I used to buy the jugs at Wally's and fill them at a local aquatic store that had a new expensive water filter. A five gallon jug costs 75 cents from them. Carpel tunnel has put an end to those days and now SO has it delivered. To drive around town I always need two or three small bottles, and used to wash and reuse others water or soda bottles for this. My college going daughter recently showed me a study on water bottles. They are basically made for one use,and using them over and over can cause lead and other toxins to leach into the beverage.Contracting cancer is definately not a frugal endeaver.Some city water is nasty too. Ive done comparitives with fish test kits on several sources of water, and there is a HUGE disparity in results.Sandy

    Bookmark   May 1, 2004 at 8:46PM
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Brewbeer did a good job of listing the torments inflicted on the world by a relatively harmless looking bottle of water.

But he forgot the benefits: The bottling company employees, the truckers, the store personnel, the people employed in advertising and marketing, not to mention their kids, who might live in better houses, have nicer things, and go to better schools because a parent had a decent job providing a product that people like TREKaren were graciously willing to pay for. Possibly consider even the baby whose young life was saved because mom or dad had insurance or enough money to provide health care in the event of sickness.

Even the litter provides jobs for people -- cleaning it up, recycling it, turning it into new products.

That's the economic system we have. It's how we all survive. Yes, all we do does affect others, but this planet won't take care of us on its own. We've had to do a lot to make it survivable. Throw any one of us out into the jungle, and see how long we last.

By the way, I don't buy bottled water. My well water tastes like a mixture of salt and dog manure, but it's been tested and the experts say it won't hurt me, so I've just gotten used to it. But if I wanted bottled water, I'd buy it, and I wouldn't feel a bit bad, either. I might be saving a baby's life.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2004 at 1:49PM
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I have an even better idea, Ken. How about let's all of us start buying all the air we breathe? Making, filling and transporting all those compressed-air cylindars would surely employ an awful lot more people than bottled water does and save even more babies' lives.

Or maybe let's rent out each cubic inch of space that each person occupies each day? Now, there's an industry that would doubtless prove a mighty engine of economic growth!

Don't forget, you heard it here first!

    Bookmark   May 4, 2004 at 3:28PM
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Those aren't very good analogies. Looking at the first one, people require air on a continual basis, while they can choose the time and place where they wish to drink water. The second one is worse, because while your analogy apparently calls for mandating that people pay for the space they take up, no one is suggesting that individuals be forced to buy water in little plastic bottles.

I wonder what would happen if all products had to pass some sort of "need" test before they could be marketed. How many things on the market are just out there because some people like them? Surely more than half. So while you can try to make my point sound stupid with analogies that don't really apply, you can't assail the truth of it: Our economy, and in turn the quality of many people's lives, is based largely on the provision of products that are more in the category of "wants" than "needs."

But it's someone else's family and livelihood, not yours, so that probably doesn't make any difference. What was that again about everything we do affecting other people? That's right, it sure does.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2004 at 5:42PM
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I thought your point was the bottled water industry is good because it supplies jobs. Where does this needs versus wants stuff come from and what does that have to do with anything?

Besides, I didn't say anything about compelling people to purchase air or space. Market it correctly and they'll flock to the air store in droves. There already are oxygen bars, you know.

I'm surprised you even frequent this forum. After all, saving money by buying used, repairing broken stuff, recycling, etc, deprives people of the opportunity to produce them from scratch, resulting in fewer jobs and more dead babies.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2004 at 6:13PM
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Well, I see bottled water for sale almost everywhere, even in vending machines, so many people must want it. But as you and others have pointed out, virtually no one needs it. You don't see how that's an issue of a want versus a need?

Thanks for your insight regarding my participation in this forum. I'm not sure of the logical basis of your comment, though, since I already said above that I don't buy bottled water. Obviously I must not feel that anyone should make an effort to buy things they don't want or need just to provide jobs.

I posted my original comment because I looked at this discussion and was expecting to read comments about people standing up for themselves, but instead read a series of comments browbeating people for buying bottled water. All I was trying to do was balance out the negatives which had been so well detailed with the potential positives of the product.

    Bookmark   May 5, 2004 at 9:24AM
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I always wonder why this thread is so slow. I guess it's not to hard to figure out after reading some of the above posts.There is plenty of room for every opinion without being negative.Play nice and maybe we'll all get the oportunity to learn more.

    Bookmark   May 5, 2004 at 11:32AM
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Actually, all I did was point out that drinking tap water is a lot cheaper than buying bottled water. Isn't that an appropriate comment on a Money Savings Tips forum? The claim was made that it's more convenient to buy bottled water. That doesn't make much sense to me, so I asked anyone who thinks it is to explain how. So far, I've had no takers. So I still don't understand why more and more people keep buying it, unless it's just a question of successful marketing.

I haven't berated" anyone for anything, and frankly I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, Ken. How this discussion morphed into "buying bottled water is good" versus "buying bottled water is bad" is beyond me. What I've been trying to say all along is "buying bottled water is expensive."

    Bookmark   May 6, 2004 at 11:01AM
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I think I got you and Brewbeer confused.

Anyway, has anyone else stood up for themselves for the sake of frugality?

    Bookmark   May 6, 2004 at 11:52AM
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It's true that we're both homebrewers -- a frugal and delicious hobby!

    Bookmark   May 6, 2004 at 2:00PM
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Drinking tap water may be cheaper, but when city water supplies are contaminated, it may be cheaper to drink bottled water than to pay for medical treatment. I used to live in DC, and regularly received notices that the water supply had exceeded trichloromethane levels for the last 90 days, and occasionally warnings to boil water due to criptosporidium, etc. Even a Brita filter isn't 100% effective. Buying good bottled water was worth it to me then for peace of mind.

As for the guy refilling the Perrier bottles, I assume his tap water was lightly carbonated, or anyone would be able to tell the difference. FWIW, Perrier was once shut down because of Benzene present in their water...

    Bookmark   May 6, 2004 at 2:30PM
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Maybe it was a different brand. I don't remember for sure.

People need to drink good water. That goes without saying. Unfortunately, drinking bottled water doesn't always assure that, as you pointed out. A better and cheaper solution would be to make sure our municipal supplies are safe, IMHO.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2004 at 2:50PM
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Here in my city they have been known to mix up the lines between reclaimed water(from sewars for watering lawns)and city water to the houses. Whole families were becoming ill. Then they had the water tested.Your city water is tested for lots of different things,but not antibiotic content,which finds its way into more and more water supplies every year partly because of all the fish owners who treat their tanks and pitch tank water down the sink without boiling it for five minutes.If you just ran PH tests on your municipal water supply every week, you might be suprised at the amount of variation.We have superfunds to dig up all the radioactive stuff they thought was safe to bury 50 years ago .You can believe what you want about your municipal water supply. I have a difficult time believing that it is uncompromised in my area.Sandy

    Bookmark   May 6, 2004 at 10:10PM
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And to think some crazy people ARE paying to breathe air in airport etc "Oxygen Lounges" no doubt sipping on a bottle of premium Calgary or Detroit filtered tap water.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2004 at 1:38PM
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If Detroit's water isn't for you, how about some 10,000 year old water bottled from ancient glaciers? See the link below.

Even the manager of the project says he doesn't care for taste of the water. Any why not? Can you imagine anything more stagnant than 10,000 year old water? I don't even want to use six month old ice cubes out of the freezer, much less something with mastadon pee in it.

    Bookmark   May 10, 2004 at 8:51AM
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"I don't even want to use six month old ice cubes out of the freezer, much less something with mastadon pee in it."

Well I don't buy bottled water unless I'm out somewhere & really thirsty - I can't stand soda & just prefer water.

I must say I don't get upset about whether other people buy it or not, though. You say tomaahhto, I say tomayto....

    Bookmark   May 10, 2004 at 5:28PM
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Anybody here "couched" in ... potato water?


    Bookmark   May 13, 2004 at 8:00PM
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In many jurisdictions, bottled water undergoes a great deal less testing than does municipal water.

What really get me laughing is ...

... that we pay a lot more for a gallon of water (in individually sized bottles) than we do for gasoline (granted, buying the gas in bulk) ...

... and we bi*ch (I got censored, using the actual word, folks) about the price of gas - but not a peep about the price of water.

If someone had come to me a dozen years ago and asked me to mount an advertising campaign to encourage people to buy bottled water at a higher price than gasoline ... would I have taken on the project?

I'd have laughed the proposer out of the office, claiming the project to be impossible.

As Grandma used to say, "What fools we mortals be".

Have a glorious late spring weekend, all.

Ole joyful

P.S. When you're 75, (more or less) retired, enjoying 3 or 4 pensions that you can live on, frugally, plus good health ...

... everyday is not only a holiday - but a joy.

Back when I was a personal financial advisor, I told many clients or prospective ones that learning how money works is an interesting hobby - and it pays well.

Also - that if they gave me 10% of their income - I'd have them retire early.

Actually - my goal was to help them learn how to manage their money themselves, rather than managing it for them.

People used to say, "Ed, you'll work yourself out of a job, that way!"

To which I replied that there were plenty more people out there who needed to learn how to manage their money more effectively.

Trick was, however, to find the ones that needed it - and encourage them to realize their need - and to want to learn how. (And to learn to trust me as a creditable advisor).

Actually, rarely got into the drinking bottled water debate.

oj (non-drinkable, that is)

    Bookmark   May 27, 2004 at 6:45PM
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LOL - I just read this thread (so I'm bored this afternoon), and one thing kept popping into my head.

All this water talk started over bottled water that she *didn't* actually buy...she got it free, which is actually less than tap water (you still have to pay a monthly water bill, right?). LOL

On the standing up for yourself thing (just to stay sort of on-topic)...I generally watch as all purchases are scanned, and I generally do notice if any of that is overcharged and say something - haven't ever had any problems getting things corrected (so far). :-)

    Bookmark   May 28, 2004 at 7:22PM
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I started buying bottled water just because I was so happy the kids began to prefer it to soda (which also is sold in the same plastic bottles). So, thinking about the kids and sugar and useless calories, I was more than happy to buy water instead of soda. Unfortuantely, kids are VERY worried about eachothers' germs, so reusing the bottles was not an option. But we did recycle.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2009 at 11:11AM
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While I can't vouch for the validity of the claim, I've heard that it would take the resources of four planets like ours to service the demands, if all of the people of the world were to live in the wasteful ways followed by North Americans ... in recent years.

But ... pollution and global warming will have made the planet uninhabitable(1) before the other human residents of the planet can achieve anywhere near that level of consumption.

Have a frugal week, folks - and, when you've been wronged ... stand up for your rights!

ole joyful

1. " ... uninhabitable ... " - by humans, that is.

Quite a number of more sturdy species will almost certainly survive ... if they can survive our depradations prior to our demise.

o j

    Bookmark   February 3, 2009 at 8:49PM
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I don't use bottled water, but I defend TREKaren's right to buy it and talk about it whether she gets it for free or not. And she doesn't have to defend why she brings it home, no matter how persistent anyone is in trying to make her do so. The topic of this thread is, after all, "Stand up for yourself" and not "Let's confront everyone who doesn't have the same opinions we do". I don't buy bread, but I defend Budster's rights to buy it. I could easily find something negative to say about store bread -- but I won't. I don't like fish, but I respect OJ enough to not harass him about it. I buy lots of things they wouldn't buy and they could probably think of negative things to say about my purchases. I don't know Budster very well, but I've seen enough of OJ's posts to know he wouldn't. I don't drink, but, Maxwell, if home brewing is your thing, I defend your right to do it and I don't ask you, or even care, why.

If you want to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of bottled water, then why not start another thread and don't make it personal to anybody?

This thread reminds me of certain members of my family, who used to come to me and say, "Now, Ilene, don't get your feelings hurt about this, BUT...." and then proceed to tell me something that would have hurt THEIR feelings, had I said the same to them. You can't say at the beginning of your post that you're not trying to be critical and then go ahead and do so, without offending people. And an apology doesn't sound very sincere when you follow it by more criticism.

I read several forums here at GardenWeb. I have some favorites, where I post pretty often, because people are nice. We respect each other's opinions, whether we share them or not. When there's a need to correct misinformation, we do so kindly. When we post, we often acknowledge the persons we are replying to by name. We go off topic a lot and hijack each other's threads and no one gets upset.

I have seen other forums here at GardenWeb, however, where people just seem to lurk in order to find someone they can confront and/or bully. Before you know it, either the person they confronted realizes defense is pointless and quits posting entirely or they both start calling each other names. I see the same persons, persistently attacking someone who was just simply posting to share something. There is nothing that kills a forum quicker than this. We come here to share information, not squelch the opinions of everyone who doesn't share ours.

The written word makes communication hard because we can't see facial expressions and body language. Maybe criticism wouldn't be so hard to take if we could see a smile or hear a pleasant, but teasing, inflection to the voice. Maybe people wouldn't criticize others if they could see the surprise and disappointment on their faces.

I realize I have been critical in this post. But I have seen some persistence in the criticism of TREKaren and I think it's out of line. I do not apologize. --Ilene

    Bookmark   February 4, 2009 at 10:22AM
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The point I wanted to make as the original poster was, if there is a clearly written policy in place, then if the conditions are not met, then stand up for yourself. Too many of us are just not doing it and are "too shy" to be questioning the producers/stores whatever. I am neither too shy or too uneducated to be aware. This post has gone off on another track, but all opinions are welcome to me. I don't mind thinking I was wrong. It is too small a world when differences make a mountain out of a mole hill.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2009 at 11:16PM
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You'll need a big mountain if you have a mind to "out-mountain" budster ...

... who lives on the B.C. coast, within sight (I think) of the Coast Range.

ole joyful

    Bookmark   February 5, 2009 at 12:42AM
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OK - since clearly we have a group here that is NOT afraid to stand up.. what about this scenario? (example)

You go to the local drive thru - come home to find out that several of your items are missing. You call the drive-thru and they say "come on back and bring your receipt and we'll make good on it".

What a pain in the butt first off - but don't you all feel that in a situation such as this, the drive-thru shouldn't just give you what you paid for and had to make 2 trips to get, but actually offer to give your money back for the entire meal, or give you some free other items?

Seems like these days, when someone screws up (humans do make errors) that there's a lot less of them that actually do BETTER than your original order - because of your inconvenience?

I'd sure like to hear of some success stories along those lines.

    Bookmark   April 6, 2009 at 1:02AM
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Ok boxie - this has also happened to order was corrected and they took back the incorrect items. End of extras and not even a sorry about that. When I complained about the return trip- gas etc. I got an oh well and a roll of the eyes. As you say, the idea of going one step better seems to have gone by the wayside. Anyone have a success story?? Joyful?

    Bookmark   April 6, 2009 at 3:04PM
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All that I can think of at the moment is the "fishy" story that I told way back early in the thread.

I'm about to do one, though!

Visited an auto supply store about three months ago ... when I entered, a guy at a table, waving a sheet of paper, asked how I'd like $10. worth of gas.

What did I need do in order to qualify?

Not much - they want to send info to me about sales, good deals, etc.

Started to take down my info ... wanted driver's licence ... started to write down licence No. ... what you need that for, to send me stuff in the mail??

Verification purposes.

No, thanks - with identity theft being what it is ... I can do without that ... so I demanded the paper (with the driver's licence No. on it) and he tore it up and gave it to me.

After a few min., I returned, saying that I guessed that driver's licence No. wasn't a major issue regarding identity theft, so he took down name, address, etc. including driver's licence No., some other info.

In less than a minute, he dropped the pen on the pad, turned it toward me, asked me to sign it.

What did I need to sign it for, for them to send me sales offers in the mail??

They wanted to be sure that I'd authorized the situation.

I gave the paper a quick glance ... it was an application for a credit card!!!

I gave him the devil for having made not one mention of the credit card application ... so I guessed that the deal was off, as I'd scratched that part off.

No, no - it was still a deal ... and he accepted the signed paper.

As I left the store, I complained to a customer service rep about the misrepresentation/deception, and she said that they wanted to treat their cutomers fairly.

To this date, I have not received any offers of good deals addressed to me - apart from their unaddressed sales flyer that comes to the mail box weekly.

I have not received a voucher for $10.00 worth of gas, either.

So, one of these days, I'm going to have a discussion with the manager of the store, claiming that I have received no offers of good deals ... and no voucher for gas ... but when the young man accepted the paper, it became, as far as I was concerned, a contract ...

... but it looks as though the paper was thrown into the garbage, when it arrived at the office.

And, as far as I am concerned - he owes me a voucher for $10.00 worth of gas.

Also, from that day till now, I've told a number of folks about their store's deception over the credit card application.

Wish me luck!

ole joyful

    Bookmark   April 7, 2009 at 2:54AM
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Knowing you I bet you get your gas voucher...I'd like to be a fly on the wall at that interview. Too many people are taken unaware these really have to watch. Good luck Joyful....let us know how you make out.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2009 at 1:45PM
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You go Ed! Get your $10 voucher.
As for Detroit water, it is some of the best tasting water around. DH used to bring home jugs of it years ago when he worked in Detroit and many family members were in the area. We had a well, not a tasty one either!
I buy bottled water now. New house, new well, but still not my favorite. DH just refills bottles from the faucet for himself.
Kathy G in MI
Amazing, this post started 5 years ago! And no changes in peoples thoughts it seems.

    Bookmark   April 8, 2009 at 12:21PM
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It's apparent that we're going to seed, Kathy G in MI.

o j

    Bookmark   April 8, 2009 at 11:50PM
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