Got the first offer but...

loves2readOctober 19, 2012

Our house has been on market less than a month

Have had 6 individual viewings, a well-attended open house

We got first offer today--

house is listed at 275K basically

offer is for 265 but they want 6K kickback at closing, to have 45 day closing and rent back from us for a week

they also want an extra slab of granite we have left from kitchen/bathroom remodel and our mineral rights...

The mineral rights are negligible--although they might think they are worth something...

the granite can convey

but they are basically asking for a 16K reduced price--plus the realtors' costs...they offered 1K earnest money...less than 1% of sale price

homes in our neighborhood in DFW area have been selling fairly well

our house has been upgraded within past 4 pristine condition and we have spent a lot of money on it...I know that doesn't necessarily matter to seller but it does to us...

I was kind of insulted even though I know some people still think that any offer is an acceptable offer...

the buyer's agent is her mother--who lis like 70 from what our agent said, and the buyer herself works for mortgage company...which is likely the one giving the pre-qualified letter...

Supposedly she has a home to sell but does not need to do that to qualify...

has 52K to put down toward mortgage if her deal is accepted...

Our realtor says that our house would have no problem appraising for full purchase price so we are not inclined to deal down too much

how weird is it to come in with such low earnest money? and to ask for such give back when someone obviously has cash?

My thought (from couple of questions they asked our agent) is that this person wants to put a pool in our backyard which is one of largest in neighborhood and basically wants to save enough on buying the house to pay for getting pool included in a refinanced mortgage...

But I have also read plenty of stories about sellers who negotiated too harshly with their first offer and didn't see another for a long time...

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This is not that bad an offer. After all it is the initial offer and you have not even countered yet. Counter at a price a little more than you will settle for. If they keep demanding that they need the closing costs then just bump up the sales price accordingly.
You are going to counter aren't you? No buyer shows their hand with the initial offer.

    Bookmark   October 19, 2012 at 4:31PM
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I would NOT release mineral rights, especially if you have land. Speaking from what is going on here in ND regarding the oil boom we have and what is happening in Ohio expecting oil, KEEP your mineral/oil rights. They are NOT negotible. Kind of a low down payment and why do they want to rent for only a week?? Be sure and counter with what you and your realtor this is best for YOU. Is the buying agent a realtor? If you do go thru with this, make sure she is getting a new loan, not taking over yours. Hope others have better advice.

    Bookmark   October 19, 2012 at 4:58PM
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This is a city lot--not acres of land...
My husband works in the O/G industry...he knows when it is worth keeping mineral rights...
The buyer's agent is a realtor and her mother but don't know much input she has
we got email from the buyer forwarded through our agent...
I don't think there is enough arms-length in doing negotiations this way
I don't want MY agent forwarding emails we send her to the buyer

We offered 272K, no money back at settlement and shorter closing, no house lease

she countered with 269K sa;es price, 3K at closing...
she did come up to 1% earnest money and agreed to shorter closing time/no house leasing

we are going back with OK at 269--no money at closing--

don't know how quickly she will respond...
her email with her offer contained her comments about how she was not sure the house would appraise at 269 so it was a generous offer...based on what she had seen of past sales data...
our RE agent showed us probably the same stuff and felt we have good price at 275...
go figure...

    Bookmark   October 19, 2012 at 6:27PM
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A $52,000 down payment is WAY above avg. in this market. FHA loans only require 3.5%, USDA loans require zero percent.
IMO, no mineral rights, no deal.
You ask if the buyer's agent is a realtor? Why is this important to the deal?
There has been no talk about the buyer assuming the sellers loan, so why bring this up?
To the OP, a 1% deposit is the average here, but is always negotiable. If the buyers do move into the home one week before close, then the final walk through happens before then, and the buyers accept the place as is on that day.

    Bookmark   October 19, 2012 at 6:31PM
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$1000 earnest that all?????

If I was selling, I'd counter and get that up to at least $5000...or higher. Let them put some skin in the game.

    Bookmark   October 19, 2012 at 8:43PM
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Good deal... you are now only $3000 apart. Don't let this buyer get away over $3000. They are bringing a large down payment, which most other buyers will not be. These buyers sound more qualified than most, which is worth something to you.

    Bookmark   October 19, 2012 at 10:10PM
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We took last offer---its 7500 less than asking--with no giveback
100 a sq ft--a little less than recent sales but they were
larger homes with pools
This price is higher than first RE agent we interviewed recommended we list at so we are pretty always hope you get more...
Just inspection to get through and hopefylly nothing major

    Bookmark   October 19, 2012 at 10:39PM
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Is it even legal for the buyer to get cash at closing?

    Bookmark   October 20, 2012 at 12:11PM
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Apparently so--our agent did not mention it was illegal and I see people on House Hunters asking for it often...we have never done it ...

Had email that there is another showing happening this AM--a different realtor from office a couple of towns away...

We have not heard anything from our realtor regarding response we gave accepting buyer's counter offer...
Our realtor said we should continue to show the house until after the 10 day inspection period--
in TX that is when you actually exercise/commit to contract...
within the 10 days the buyer can back out for any reason--whether a material flaw is discovered during inspection...
I thought the reason for the 10 day option was that the house was off the market and sellers couldn't entertain other offers...but apparently since WE did not sign anything...we are free to do just that...
so we could get another offer that would be better...

that seems a little shady to me frankly...
But if it is legally accurate (and our agent has been in business a long time so I think she knows the rules) you would think the buyer's agent would have wanted something with OUR signatures on it to lock in exclusivity for buyer...

I don't how how the same situation would work in other states cause I know from other threads that RE law/practice varies a great deal state to state...

    Bookmark   October 20, 2012 at 12:33PM
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I thought the reason for the 10 day option was that the house was off the market and sellers couldn't entertain other offers...but apparently since WE did not sign anything...we are free to do just that...

Didn't you sign the counter offer to the buyer? If so, when they sign it you have a legal contract.

    Bookmark   October 20, 2012 at 1:26PM
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no--thought I made that plain in my post
our realtor has sent everything via email from her computer/IPad--after either emails or phone conversation with us...

she is out of her office on visit to son at college by accident but apparently that has also given excuse not to have us sign anything physically...
and don't know that the buyer has requested to have us sign anything as addendum to original offer...

    Bookmark   October 20, 2012 at 1:45PM
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Did you sign anything electronically?

    Bookmark   October 20, 2012 at 2:36PM
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Just got email from our realtor--she is sending copy of signed contract with updates from the buyer for us to sign electronically and forward back to her

asking for clarification about the showing during the 10 day period...

    Bookmark   October 20, 2012 at 3:05PM
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I'm also in TX and in the process of selling my home. Until the contract is signed & agreed upon by both sides, it is not considered executed. The option period begins after the contract is executed, so technically right now you should still be showing your home.

We are on contract #3 (offer #10) and we are set to close on Wednesday, but we were still having showings as recently as Thursday. Our rule of thumb has been to never turn one away, because a contract does not always equal a sale. Just my two cents of course!

    Bookmark   October 20, 2012 at 9:49PM
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We are waiting to get e-copy of contract to sign and return to our realtor...then the 10 day option period starts for inspections
We can have showings and entertain backup offers if they come in during this time...
Our realtor said that she had contract fall apart recently during the inspection process so will be keeping our fingers crossed nothing major comes up ...

    Bookmark   October 20, 2012 at 10:01PM
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We are in the 10 day option period--the buyer has had the mortgage appraiser out Friday and has had two inspections both that started at 5--
apparently so she can be there...

The contract states that the house must appraise for selling price (which we don't think will be problem based on recent comps) but you never know...
how long does it usually take to get an appraisal done for mortgage purposes?
When we bought our current home we paid for appraisal because the seller was being pretty unreasonable about what his "appraised price" was...eventhough he had not gotten a professional appraiser..
just used his realtor's comps (wrong) and his own opinion...and the appraiser did a quick turn around for us...

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 11:12AM
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It just takes a few days for the appraiser to write up his report for the lender. Remember that point...the appraiser works for the lender, not the buyer. (Except indirectly...)

Some buyer agents are good about letting the seller side know the house appraised well. Usually the only time Ias a seller's agent hear the results of the appraisal is when the house does NOT meet the numbers. No news is good news in this case. (And yes, I usually nag the other agent for details.)

Hope things go well and your contract closes smoothly!

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 12:13PM
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"We are on contract #3 (offer #10) "

It sounds like you have no contract, just the normal back and forth of offers and counteroffers.

Each 'go round' is NOT a contract, just an offer.

Until BOTH parties have signed without making a change there is NO CONTRACT.

The 'meeting of the minds' has NOT occurred until that point.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 2:48PM
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I would take that offer

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 3:01PM
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The buyer forwarded the entire inspection report to our realtor directly--not through her realtor--
did not include any monetary renumeration to cover the lists of comments the inspector had...
just the comment "I hope the sellers will work with me on these items"

What does that mean...
our realtor sent the email with the inspection report this morning
she has been in meeting and hasn't called us to discuss...

I think some of these finding are incorrect
he cited two leaks--one under kitchen sink, one under master bath sink
I went to the house and checked both--
The master bath sink did have leak--probably from when my husband did some make ready to get the drain stopper to work better...he had to disconnect one of the plastic conduit lines and that is where the link is
so he can tighten that connection

But I found no leak under kitchen sink--ran garbage disposal with water, ran dishwasher, ran water into both sides of the sink and had paper towels inside on cabinet base---nothing showed...
He said the link was at sink drain...nothing...

Cited three windows that would not open--
all windows opened as of 3 weeks ago when we had windows washed...
so I think they were difficult to open maybe but functional...didn't know about that when I was at the house to check but we can do it later today

and other gutters had leaves
Folks--it is fall---there are 3 pecan trees on the lot and other trees plus ones in the neighborhood...
we cleaned the gutters and downspouts 3-4 weeks ago before house went into MLS--
of course there are leaves in the gutter now--we didn't clean them daily...
They will be there until spring starts...
that just seems to be going out of his way to point out problem that anyone with trees and gutters would have...

And the stuff I thought he would take issue with--like some

My question is do we say
YOU set a monetary value to these items or tell us which ones you consider important enough to have remediated before you complete the contract?
I think this is really snarky way to negotiate and I really don't like this buyer but I am more emotional than my husband...

I don't want to give her any concessions since I think we took a big enough drop in the contract price...
but have friend who is builder who said that you don't want to get into a line by liine, item by item fight...
he said make it lump sum value to cover all problems and she takes care of them...
I just think some of what the inspector has listed are borderline bogus just to improve her bargaining position--
that she likely knows him because of her job at mortgage company or though her mom, the realtor,


    Bookmark   October 29, 2012 at 3:11PM
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Your realtor needs to go back to the buyer's realtor and ask for a specific request in writing. The inspection contingency should be written something along the lines of "buyer has 10 days to perform an inspection and bring up any concerns." Typically the buyer either walks or asks the seller to fix a specified list of things. The seller then agrees or disagrees and negotiates.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2012 at 4:30PM
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Brickeyee - I know it sounds crazy, but we are on our third contract and tenth offer. The first two buyers backed out during option period (one was having trouble getting financing to close on the promised date, the other was an investor who found a cheaper home that was a better fit for them). We have received ten offers and done plenty of negotiating, resulting in a total of three contracts since we've been on the market. Now we're out of the option period, so we're just waiting on the buyer to sign by Wednesday so we can be done with selling finally!

Obviously I didn't mean that we had three concurrent contracts, as that isn't permissible. Sorry if I didn't make that clear!

    Bookmark   October 29, 2012 at 5:09PM
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