Rounded edge on windows make for odd looking (to me) sill?

library_girlMarch 30, 2012

We've converted our garage to living space. There are new windows - Marvin Integrity - and now the carpenter is installing the trim and sills. The odd thing is that the windows themselves have rounded wood around the inside, which causes the carpenter to leave a slight reveal. I guess the look is fine, except for my kitchen window. It seems like there won't be a smooth sill for potted plants, etc. Is this typical with current windows? I'm surprised no one mentioned it?

From Remodeling Project

(The bottom trim hasn't been added yet)

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terrybull

looks like windows were ordered wrong and he added a jamb extension. thats why you are seeing all the different reveals.

    Bookmark   March 30, 2012 at 12:50PM
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library_girl

Can you elaborate as to what was ordered wrong? Do you order windows with sills depth already indicated?

    Bookmark   March 30, 2012 at 2:51PM
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annzgw

Looks fine to me and I don't think the carpenter had much choice. It's very similar to my windows except the reveal edge on mine is from the concave/quarter round trim between window and sill.

Once it's painted or stained you'll never notice it, and for the pots, you can use felt pads as shims to make them level.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2012 at 7:53PM
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HandyMac

That looks like a window made for a standard two by four studded wall set in a two by six studded wall.

If that is the case, wrong window and the carpenter did a really nice job fixing the problem.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 12:36AM
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renovator8

Awning type windows are often combined with other windows so to accommodate that installation without making another window model, all 4 sides are usually treated the same.

The standard jamb depth of the Integrity awning window is 4 9/16" so to install it in a wall with larger than 2x4 studs Marvin offers extension jambs. The extension jambs have a hidden rabbet that forces the trim to be placed as your carpenter has installed them.

What he did differently from the standard Marvin detail is to use a projecting "stool" trim at the bottom instead of using extension trim on all 4 sides. He chose to position it the same as the other 3 sides so it would match. To do otherwise without creating an unattractive groove would require making a stool trim that would extend over the frame to the sash stop with a cutout for the operating hardware which would provide a smooth traditional stool. This is not a detail a carpenter would be likely to assume you wanted because it is considerably more expensive and "non-standard" in today's market.

The reveal for the Integrity Awning is small. On the Marvin Ultimate Awning it is about 5/8". The detail on the Ultimate Double-Hung still allows a traditional stool.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2012 at 9:31AM
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library_girl

Renovator8 - You're exactly correct. We have a room with the Marvin Integrity double hung and they all have the traditional stool that I was expecting. Our Awning and Casement windows have the rounded edges, so have the extra reveal. I really don't mind, except for my awning kitchen windows where I wish I had the smooth stool.

I'm just disappointed that neither my architects nor my GC nor the window guy pointed out this 'feature' - I would have switched to double hung windows over the kitchen window or explored removing the bottom jamb and replacing it with either the extended stool or a marble stool.

It just seems like they're the experts who should know that this is what is going to happen and should discuss with me.

    Bookmark   April 7, 2012 at 11:42PM
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Jumpilotmdm

The choices and results of those choices could almost go on forever. Your architect & GC are probably only guilty of making some decisions for you in the interest of simplicity because I can tell you from experience, most people get overwhelmed real quick by such details.

    Bookmark   April 8, 2012 at 7:24PM
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renovator8

If these windows are above a kitchen counter using an awing window is far more important than the levelness of the sill because it is not only difficult to open a window while leaning over a counter, it can cause serious injury.

The proper solution would have been to make a custom stool that extended over the bottom frame of the window. It is something that I would have done automatically because so many of my clients have wanted that feature. I usually extend the stool trim even further and make a shelf out of it that runs the full length of the counter since a normal stool is usually too small to be used for plants, etc.

But the architect couldn't have known that you would not like this standard detail; you need to collaborate with the team to get custom features not assume they will know what you like. Did you look at a sample of this window in a showroom? You were part of the design team too.

You should ask the carpenter what it would cost to remove the existing stool and add a new deeper one. If it is only one or two windows I would just pay to correct the problem and move on.

    Bookmark   April 9, 2012 at 8:39AM
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jvncnt

To the OP. We are in the process of buying windows and thought that we had decided on the wood-ultrex integrity in a combination of double hung and casements. When we were discussing final arrangments, we discussed the fact that we wanted stool and aprons on all of the windows and were told that we couldn't do that with the wood-ultrex integrity since they come with pre-installed jamb extensions that you cannot remove without a great deal of fuss.

You mentioned that you had DH integrity and it looks from the photo that you attached that you went with the wood-ultrex. By an chance do you have any photograph of the DH trim that was done and do you know how it was done (as in was the stool just placed over the jamb extension or did they somehow remove the bottom piece?

Any help would be much appreciated!

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 3:40PM
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renovator8

I believe the Integrity awning window has jambs sized for the wall thickness and that occurs on all 4 sides so the window is assumed to be trimmed like a picture frame. Adding a stool trim at the bottom is complicated by the window operating crank but a good carpenter can modify the frame to make it look good.

I believe the Integrity double-hungs have the more common loose jamb extensions so a conventional stool can be substituted at the bottom.

Therefore, it is difficult to trim awnings and double-hungs so they look the same.

It's unfortunate but the simple fact of the matter is that window companies don't hire architects to help design their products; they're more concerned about the cost of fabrication and shipping.

Frankly, I avoid awing windows except over kitchen sinks and I make a shelf out of the custom stool and insist on Marvin Clad Casemasters.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2013 at 11:08PM
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