Baltimore Rowhouse Kitchen Rennovation

atct86April 4, 2013

I am just starting the initial phases of planning on a kitchen renovation to my Baltimore rowhouse, although I will be moving very quickly. This weekend I am going to remove the soffits, and see if there is any extra room to work with. I do know that the chimney bump-out breaking up the current cabinets can come out. I also know there are original pine floors from 1880 under the 2 layers of linoleum.

Below are some plans and renders from a designer using Shiloh cabinets. I am planning on doing beaded inset white shaker cabinets.

Please let me know any feedback or ideas.

This post was edited by atct86 on Mon, Apr 22, 13 at 15:09

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stealthecrumbs

Congratulations! I look forward to seeing your project as it progresses. Small kitchens are a challenge (I'm working through my own...) But it seems like you've got a good start. If those soffits can come out, you will really gain some height (& storage)

    Bookmark   April 4, 2013 at 3:51PM
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whit461

Can't wait to see and watch what happens. I am so jealous. Live in Annapolis for about 5 years a life time ago and miss the Bay.

I see the range (hope you're keeping the gas), but what appliance is to the far left of it? Another oven? Also, is your sink going in a 27" sink base in the island, or am I reading that wrong. Shiloh cabs should look great.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2013 at 5:06PM
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shanghaimom

Will keep my fingers crossed for you that you'll find useable space under those dropped ceilings!

Where are you planning to put a sink?

Your layout and the available space made me think of Mrs. Limestone's Brooklyn kitchen. Still classic and perfect--I think the pic is from around 2008.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2013 at 5:22PM
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chicagoans

Check your refrigerator specs to see what will happen when you open the door on the right. (Unless it's a single door hinged on the left, in which case ignore the below.)

My concern is that the wall at the right won't allow the door to be open past 90 degrees (or even less depending on the handle) and that you won't be able to open any drawers on the right side of the fridge.

If you scoot everything over by just a few inches and add a skinny pullout to the right of the ref, then you'll have some space for broom or other storage and the door will swing open enough for easy access to the ref interior.

The picture shows a pullout that was put in just 4" of space.

Awesome rowhouse!

    Bookmark   April 4, 2013 at 7:02PM
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socalsister

You might consider switching the two banks of drawers on either side of the range to give yourself more landing space for the fridge.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2013 at 7:12PM
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a2gemini

So much fun! Someone did a beautiful job on a Philly "row" house - I am drawing a blank but it might come to me.

    Bookmark   April 4, 2013 at 7:24PM
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gr8daygw

I think that was Kevin and he is over at the Decorating Forum doing the rest of the house up. Looks great!

Your home is coming along and looking good!

    Bookmark   April 4, 2013 at 10:16PM
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caminnc

Take a look at this kitchen. So many great ideas used here. Good luck with your rennovation.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rowhouse Kitchen

    Bookmark   April 5, 2013 at 8:31AM
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atct86

Whit461 - The appliance is supposed to be a 24" Sharp undercounter microwave. that cabinet needs to get changed from 27" to 24"

I think I might move the range to the center of the wall and the fridge. Does anyone have any advice to stepping down to a fridge less than 36" wide? I only have 2 bedrooms, and the house would probably never support a large family.

    Bookmark   April 5, 2013 at 3:21PM
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beachpea3

What a wonderful classic Baltimore townhouse! Brings back memories...

Chicagoans is right on the mark. Make sure you have the space to open the door and pull out all the drawers inside the refrigerator. We should have had one of those space fillers put in when we did a kitchen over in our summer cottage. A 4" broom holder would have been perfect. Now every time I want to pull out one of the bottom drawers to clean it or under it... I need to pull the whole refrigerator out into the room. A Royal pain! Not to mention what it does to the floors.

Have fun with your project and keep posting your progress pictures.

    Bookmark   April 5, 2013 at 6:14PM
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SparklingWater

Is that a tin ceiling I see? Lot's you might do to play with that: search houzz.com/tin ceiling.

Soffits: we just opened our 14" tall ones, and sure enough, serious ventilation ducts which will be re-routed.

Yes to your refrigerator question as posed: be aware that 30" refrigerators are less expensive than 33" ones, at least in counter depth sizes due to demand.

Even with plastic up all four sides of the room, the plaster cut outs produced incredible dust. Be prepared and good luck!

    Bookmark   April 5, 2013 at 6:15PM
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atct86

I was able to rip the soffits out, and all i found was a partial brick chimney. I was able to have this removed, and now will be able to put cabinets all the way up to the ceiling.

My concern right now is lighting. Should I rely on the center light fixture to provide me enough light? Should I attempt to put in recessed lighting in?

    Bookmark   April 9, 2013 at 9:15AM
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angie_diy

I strongly prefer several semi-flush light fixtures for lighting. (Semi-flush is like the one you have now, hanging down several inches from the ceiling.) That way, there is a wash of light, and not-so-harsh shadows.

Do you know what you are doing with the ceiling? That influences your choices, of course.

    Bookmark   April 9, 2013 at 11:25AM
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atct86

I am keeping the tin ceiling. I was able to salvage extra crown molding to use on the bare walls. I feel like putting recessed lighting in it could be a mess. A flush mount light, and under cabinet might be enough?

In the below pics you can see the chimney that is now gone.

This post was edited by atct86 on Mon, Apr 22, 13 at 15:10

    Bookmark   April 9, 2013 at 11:54AM
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atct86

I finally got the kitchen wall framed, and cleaned up a bit.

I am uncertain if I should do a chimney vent hood, or one I can put cabinets on top of, because of the lack of tin ceiling where the chimney was.

Can anyone reccomend one?

Here are some more updated pics:

    Bookmark   April 22, 2013 at 3:12PM
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angie_diy

Not in response to your question, but a thought occurred to me (prompted by the horizontal 2x4 bracing in some of your stud bays). Have you considered putting in a row of 2x4's at the level where your upper and lower cabinets will attach? This makes it quite a bit easier to hang the cabs, as you don't have to work hard to hit the studs.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 10:28AM
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valinsv

Can you patch the ceiling where the chimney was? If you do cabinets to the ceiling then you should be able to have salvage some of the tin along the perimeter where your new cabinets will run.

Look forward to seeing your progress!

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 11:29AM
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powermuffin

That ceiling is awesome! I am excited to see your progress. Are you going to refinish your original floors? Ours are refinished (1908) floors and they are beautiful. We are going to work on our kitchen in late summer so I hope you post lots of pictures as you go along.
Diane

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 11:41AM
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torontotim

I think a chimney vent hood would look perhaps a little too 'modern' for what it seems you're going for.

We did a Vent-a-Hood - full 18" high with the cabinet above (which really just serves to hide the duct and holds my electrical for my cabinet LED lighting).

Luckily I got a good deal on the hood - 2nd hand on eBay.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 1:49PM
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atct86

The missing tin only goes about 12" from the wall, so my molding and trim will cover it all.

I think I am sold on an under cabinet hood, which means i need to find one that can vent into the basement.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 2:18PM
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a2gemini

Wow - you have the whole place torn apart - can't wait to see your project!

    Bookmark   April 23, 2013 at 8:08PM
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atct86

I have since adjusted all the framing cross pieces to be at a more consistent level.

I had the thought of covering that whole wall with 1/2 plywood, instead of drywall.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 9:11AM
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judeNY_gw

I covered most the wall behind the upper cabinets with 3/4" ply and taped it to the 3/4" sheetrock. It made it much easier to hang the cabinets and I would recommend it.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 10:27PM
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jrueter

My family is from Baltimore. Every year we would have Thanksgiving and Christmas at my great aunt's Baltimore row house. She and her sisters would prepare dinner for roughly 30 people there - with tables in every room of the first floor. Her kitchen was about 1/3 of what your before shows, lol. Can't wait to see the finished product!

    Bookmark   April 25, 2013 at 8:48AM
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atct86

Ok, I finalized the kitchen order as you can see below. I do have a few days to change things.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2013 at 4:51PM
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atct86

What is the absolute minimum space I need between an island and a wall?

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 8:21AM
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atct86

What is the absolute minimum space I need between an island and a wall?

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 8:48AM
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lyfia

Enough so you can fit appliances through. If you can fit a full-size fridge through I think you'll be fine. In your case I'm sure smaller clearances are probably a bit of the norm, but a person can fit through a smaller space than appliances.

Roughly:
30" is enough for a person to walk through.
36" is much more comfortable for a person to walk through
42" allows 1.5 people through ie one with easy the other on their side.
48" Makes it a 2 person space.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 11:23AM
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atct86

What would be the smallest counter overhang that I could still make functional for seating

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 11:42AM
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lyfia

12" minimum, but really not that comfortable. 15" is better.

Try testing it out with a box or something blocking you or lay a piece of cardboard on an existing counter and move it around until it feels comfortable.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 4:46PM
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valinsv

It also really depends on what type of stools you choose. Most stools are meant to tuck into a deeper overhang, but if you get backless stools that are wider than they are deep you should be able to get by with the 12" overhang. I would not go deeper with your measurements.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 6:34PM
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atct86

Now that I have the kitchen I am beginning to wonder about a couple things regarding the island.

1). right now the back and sides of the island are plain. Shiloh can add the fake doors to the backs and sides for about $1,200. Is that worth it?

2). Does anyone have any images to reference where you have a 24" island with a sink? I'm wondering if it will be weird to have the faucet right at the edge?

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 11:33AM
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MizLizzie

I'll give my opinion on #1. Yes, yes, yes. I have lived with an unfinished island for 15 years positioned a bit like yours, and it is the second thing (if not the first) that the eye will go to. Nothing says "fitted, finished kitchen" like panels on the ends and backs of cabinetry, IMHO. My island was ripped out two weeks ago, and I have never looked back.

Your project looks wonderful, btw.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 2:29PM
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judeNY_gw

Agreed. Door panels to finish the island make a big difference. Don't worry about the faucet (you don't have a choice anyway), you'll be looking at the finished door panels!

Pet peeve of mine: When they measure for the door panels, have the panels on the long side cover the edges of the panels on the short sides. Example, if the island is 60" wide, and the panels are 3/4", have the panels total 61 1/2" and have the 24" side panels 24 3/4" to cover the edge of the cabinet doors on the business side of the island. That's if you're doing frameless cabinets. I didn't read the whole thread - if you're doing inset, the sizes are different.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 9:59PM
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