Things I would NOT recommend or things I dislike!

mominthedubcApril 27, 2008

There is a subject on this forum of things people LOVE about their kitchens which has been very helpful. But, I was hoping we could just cut to the chase and have people tell us things they would definitely recommend AGAINST purchasing. I have been taking detailed notes of appliances etc. that people love but would appreciate being spared the agony of choosing something that is awful. So, if you unfortunately have found out the hard way and could share those things you "HATE", that would be so helpful. Thanks.

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I would not recommend refacing existing cabinets UNLESS you are really sure that the basic structure of them is very sound. We found out the hard way after taking off the tile counter just how cheap our lower cabinets were. Had to do a lot of reinforcing, etc to get them in reasonable shape for refacing. Had we known what we know now, we would have gotten new cabinets.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 2:28PM
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Open shelves in California and anywhere else where an earthquake is possible. This should require no explanation, but one of the kitchen porn mags had an allegedly inspirational kitchen with only open shelves, no upper San Francisco (official prediction of major EQ in next 30 years: 93%)!

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 2:37PM
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I would not get a refrigerator that sticks out too much beyond the cabinets. Ours does and it breaks up the smooth line of the cabinetry. I would do it differently if I had the option now.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 2:44PM
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I know this will be controversial:

Stainless Steel

My titanium fridge is magnetic (a big plus for me), shiny enough, spotless, and was less expensive. After one week, my stainless oven is riddled with fingerprints. Who's touching the oven all the time??? If you like stainless but can compromise with a stainless-like finish, go for it.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 2:47PM
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Awesome suggestions, thanks! Cate 1337, I never thought about NOT having stainless. Thanks. Keep those dislikes coming, please!

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 3:50PM
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cate1337, you don't really have a titanium fridge. It's probably just the finish that's called titanium. Also, titanium is not really magnetic. Your fridge is steel sheathed in something else. But, I can't comment on the fingerprint issue since I don't have any stainless appliances yet. Ask me again in a couple of weeks :)

As for something I'd recommend against it would be a Shaw sink unless you really know what you're getting yourself into, and you buy that sucker ahead of time enough to make sure any issues are ironed out. Right now I'm dealing with a sink that has at least 3 things wrong with it and the cabinets start going in tomorrow and granite templating is scheduled for Thursday. Time to formulate plan B :)

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 4:01PM
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You're right, Straw_bale_ln, the finish is called titanium. I actually had a line in there that I edited out listing some of the names for stainless-like finishes: titanium, platinum, brushed stainless, stainless-like, silver, pewter, and I'm sure many others.

Vwhippiechick, I agree with you about the fridge. My planning self didn't talk to my tax-rebate-now-I-can-get-that-fridge self, and I forgot that I planned the cabinets for a cabinet-depth fridge and got a full-depth fridge. It looks funny, like someone's wearing pants that are way too tight. I can't reach the cabinet above the fridge. I wish I'd just gotten deeper cabinets there. Funny thing is, I knew about all that in the planning stage and just had this big disconnect when purchasing. Fortunately, I love the refrigerator and am so pleased to have a new one that I don't mind that much.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 4:42PM
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Trash compactor. We have two trash/recycling pullouts in our new kitchen, & it's so much better.

Built-in small appliance center: our last home came with this. Sounds like a good idea, except that none of the attachments for blender, food processor, & mixer worked very well, and the base was installed in a very inconvenient place. Much better to have dedicated appliances that can be moved around, plus you can use more than one at the same time.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 5:01PM
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I have heard the stainless issue many times. I was trying to avoid it as much as possible. We are getting a stainless fridge and our Blue Star is being painted a creamy white to match the upper cabs so I only have to worry about the top. The rest of our appliances will have wood doors or like the oven will be part glass.

I am also avoiding the Shaw sink. With my luck I would get one that is way off spec.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 5:04PM
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Staw Bale mentioned a "Shaw" sink. I am very interested in hearing about specific brands that you would advise against.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 5:09PM
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- OTR microwave. The worst. Instead, get a proper hood, and an inexpensive countertop microwave. Put the MW on a shelf in the cabinetry, or in a pantry if you have one.

- 2-bowl sink with equal sides. Neither side will fit larger items. Instead get either a big single bowl, or a 2-bowl with one side large enough for roasting pans, cookie sheets, etc.

- 36" side-by-side fridge. It's what I have, and my biggest regret in my kitchen. While it does have vertical space, it won't fit anything wide, and is a particular pain at holiday times. I wish I'd either gotten a single-door fridge, or a wider side-by-side (48" if I could have afforded it!).

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 5:09PM
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I already made a lot of posts about my dissatifaction with my Cambria countertop. Unless orange is your favorite color, do not get Oxford in the quarry collection. The samples, no matter how large, do not match the actual product.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 5:13PM
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Absolutely HATE my side-by-side fridge. Worst decision ever. Neither side is adequate or easy to maintain, doesn't fit larger platters or bigger items. If I had the money I'd replace it, but alas I don't. I'll just keep hating it for a few more years.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 5:14PM
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Isn't it funny how things some people dislike, others like? Goes to show we're all different and you have to build your kitchen to suit YOUR needs. I love my Shaw sinks, my potfiller (heaven forbid!), actually, I can't think of one thing in my kitchen that I don't like.We had a trash compactor in our old kitchen, didn't like it that well and went with a trash pull-out this time. My neighbor swears by her compactor! One thing I've noted from a lot of these threads is that many are making product decisions as they go along, so then have to compromise when that doesn't work out. My recommendation would be to pick your sinks, appliances, etc. before getting too far along in the process. We used an architect because we knocked out walls, added space. One thing the architect did was have us pick out all our items, get the specs and then she incorporated those specs into our layout. Our contractor, in turn, used those same specs when we were ordering cabinets. I had my Shaw sink on hand before the cabinets were ordered because they advertise each sink is different.

So I would not recommend beginning a kitchen project without all your products chosen (including backorder issues) and specs considered.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 5:32PM
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My kitchen isn't done but I'm already thinking that the 36" side by side subzero is going to be too small. I debate daily if I should just get another freezer for the garage and put in a fridge only, but that stupid thing was so expensive....who knows what I'll do!

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 7:18PM
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Hmmmm.....looking at my kitchen, I can only think of one or two things that annoy me about it. But,unlike some here, I *do* like my OTR microwave and my side-by-side refrigerator (I kept mine from the old kitchen because it wasn't all that old!).

I really wish I'd planned a little better about the shelves inside my cabinets. I *can* change them now (the extra shelves and shelf pins are out in the garage), but it's such a pain in the you-know-what!

I also wish I'd realized that ceramic tile flooring is so darned COLD in the winter! (Even in SoCal!)


    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 7:42PM
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We haven't even sheetrocked yet, but I've lived for the last 2.5 years with the kitchen that came with the house, so I definitely have big dislikes.

Sink: Kitchen had pretty big sink with two bowls. I'm getting a large single bowl sink. I did not often find the need for two separate bowls, but was irritateted that the bowls were not as big as I wanted on either side. Had a large single bowl sink in my apartment kitchen, and liked it much better.

Fridge: In my old apt. had standard depth sink. Hated how it stuck out, so wanted definitely to have a built-in fridge. Kitchen that came with the house had a standard-depth side by side, standard width too, whatever that is. 30 inches? 36? I HATE this thing. The freezer is just way too small. It is too deep, everything in the back gets lost, and too narrow, nothing fits. Every time I open this thing up, something frozen thing falls on my foot.

I knew I wanted the widest fridge I could get, but we had huge wall space problems because I removed the one solid wall with no doors or windows to expand into the next room -- where to put a fridge?

We are getting separate Thermador freedom towers. A 30 inch fridge only and a 24 inch freezer only, so 54 inches all together. I think I will still think the freezer is too narrow, but it will be twice the size of what I have now, and taller, and well lit, etc. Those puppies cost a lot, but they saved us. Hope I like them.

I hope I don't have any big hates with my new kitchen. Can't wait to find out.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 7:43PM
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I had all my appliances selected before the cabinet plan was finalized. The cabinet man had my appliance specs but there was still the issue with the refrigerator sticking out. Maybe he didn't think it was a problem and I didn't realize it was going to be unattractive to me. It was my lack of forethought. I wanted a cabinet depth but DH thought we needed the space of the regular size. I should have checked the measurements but even if I had I'm not sure I could have visualized how it would look when installed. I saw a thread here that had pix of this very issue. Had I seen that first or thought to ask, it definitely would have made a difference. I think some things are difficult to predict/avoid.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 7:46PM
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Circus Peanut

I greatly dislike the expensive, high-end, cream-colored Italian tile floor in my rental kitchen. The grout is utterly impossible to keep clean -- try spilling hot espresso grinds! -- and my legs/feet are killing me after just an hour or two of cooking or kitchen work. I'm going for hardwood now for softness and ease of care in comparison.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 7:50PM
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This forum is great for some things, but for making me realize how I don't like that my fridge sticks out though, I cudda done without! Never, never, never would have given it a second thought, if I hadn't found out about counter depth fridges here, or recessing normal depth fridges. Only thing is it was a day too late and a dollar short as the saying goes!

So, in my next kitchen, I'll deal with it then- this one, it doesn't really bother me (well, not much...)

I soooo wish I had not listened to everyone (not here, but in my real life) who dissuaded me from having my greenhouse windows at counter height. That's probably my only real regret. Funny, not even having counter-height windows, I may be the biggest proponent for them here! :>)

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 8:11PM
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Two things I dislike in base cabinets: 1) shelves instead of drawers and 2) pull-outs behind cabinet doors.

Shelves in base cabinets make for very difficult access because a) they're 24" deep, b) you have to squat to see what's in the back and c) you have to pull out what's in the front to get what's in the back.

Pull-outs are a pain because a) you have to first open a cabinet door (usually two) and then pull out a drawer...two steps where one should be enough and b) unless both cabinet doors are fully open, you bang the inside of the doors when you pull out the drawer.

I can understand the argument for shelves in base's cheaper. But pull-outs cost about the same as drawers. And I don't get an aesthetic argument that a cabinet with doors is somehow more attractive than a bank of drawers. But there's no accounting for taste. My objection is really based on functionality.

We only installed shelves in base cabinets where it was impossible to put drawers. But the KD snuck pull-outs into my office credenza and I hate them!


    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 8:14PM
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I would NOT recommend:
GE Profile Dishwasher. We got the one with all the bells & whistles. Against my better judgement (hubby wanted to keep everything the same line, I wanted a Kitchen Aid) - I went with the GE. HATE IT! (dislike isn't harsh enough a word for how much I HATE it!) The bottom rack doesn't slide out properly, and the plates won't stay still in it. When I pull out or push in the rack, plates slide all over the place! Plus, for whatever reason - don't even THINK about opening it mid cycle to sneak in another dish. Water EVERYwhere! The cycles also take too long. Even the "Speed Cycle" takes 45 minutes. The one thing that I do like about it, is that is extra tall or something. I can fit really tall stuff in it, and there's a sprayer on the bottom as well as on the top.

I was reading about the side by side fridges - I have the GE Profile side by side 36". I actually like it quite a bit. Love that instead of shelves in the freezer, there are slide out drawers. The fridge side is a little larger than the freezer side - it's 20" wide, the freezer is 15". But as far as very large holiday platters go, if they don't fit we have a 2nd (standard) fridge out in the garage.

Another thing I dislike - is that I didn't order slide out shelves in the cabinets over the fridge, oven and pantry. Didn't think I'd need them. Regardless, I'll need a stool to get anything out from the back of them, and I'm certain I'll knock the front stuff over doing it. Wish I'd gone ahead and got the slide outs. I have them in EVERY other cabinet! Maybe I can add them on later.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 8:33PM
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I hate not having enough room in my current kitchen for all my pots & pans & for any kitchen gadgets I may want. I hate that my pantry is so small. Oh well I have to live with this kitchen for now so trying to make it the best it can be on a limited budget.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 8:39PM
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We dislike two things about our fridge:
(1) It's a SubZero - we've just had the absolute worst luck with its breakdowns. Warranty is great, so the financial impact could have been a lot worst, but we'd much prefer reliability over warranty.
(2) It's a side-by-side. Each side is too narrow. The current offerings of French door models look appealing.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 8:44PM
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Montalvo: I agree with you about liking drawers better than pullouts behind doors. That said, we plan to put one such pullout cabinet beneath our range top. Drawers beneath the range top would not have aligned with the drawer banks on either side, and I felt like the lack of alignment would have looked like a "mistake" in construction.

The doors of the range top cabinet will echo those of the wall cabinet over the range hood above. I'm hoping the whole arrangement, which falls at the exact center of one wall, will pop out visually and become a sort of focal point.

Given the two-step process of accessing the pullouts, I plan to store in them some of the oddments of kitchenware I collected for no-longer-remembered reasons, such as a tortilla press and a microwave rice cooker--items I hardly ever use but don't seem able to give away.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 8:55PM
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How do people feel about having the cold/hot water dispenser on the sink? Is it useful?

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 10:14PM
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julie7549, I had everything in my kitchen spec'ed out to the last detail, but there was nothing I could do when the Shaws sink was delivered at the end of last week and the box contained a dud. Those sinks can be real beauties, but the QC leaves something to be desired. I wasn't implying that Shaws sinks aren't worth the trouble (I chose to use one, after all), just that it would be prudent to have the sink in hand well enough in advance to avoid any issues should you have to get a replacement.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 10:25PM
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I hate my GE smooth top range. It's impossible to turn the heat down low enough to maintain a simmer instead of a low boil. Furthermore, the solid black top shows every speck of dust, scratch, smudge and everything else that comes along. My old Whirlpool did a nice simmer and didn't show anything like this overpriced behemoth.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 10:37PM
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Double (equal) bowl sinks. I want a bowl large enough to handle the large items, plus be large enough to bathe a baby! Nice to have a second bowl for rinsing, but not necessary. An old fashioned tub can do the trick as well.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 10:37PM
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I recently installed a hot/room temp insinkerator dispensor in my kitchen and I think it has changed my life. No more tea kettle for me, I love it.

Regarding the stainless steel -- I clean the appliances with pledge in the brown can and I've had no issues whatsoever with fingerprints... but I do wish i would have sprung for the 48" width fridge. I have the 36" wide counter depth and I had to install a separate beverage refrigerator recently for the overflow, plus a cheap top/bottom in the basement, too.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 10:40PM
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To chime in on the instant-hot, this is one of my LOVE LOVE LOVE IT items. I'm living without one now and can't wait to get my new kitchen with an instant hot. It was more of a requirement when our children were babies (so easy to rinse a bottle out or rinse off a binky) but even now I love it for tea, coffee, soups, hot cocoa, just anything. I hate waiting for the kettle to boil.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 10:45PM
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Kraftmaid cabinets.

Hate them. We almost went local, custom cabinets. At the last minute we decided to shave some $$(about 2K) and went with birch cabinets w/ Kaffe finish from Kraftmaid. Our thinking was - we'll put our $ into the granite. Mistake. I could have lived w/ cheaper granite, less eye candy. But cabinet quality? Not something to go cheap on. BIG regret on my part. They look pretty...but just not as solid and well made.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 11:20PM
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DW insisted that I submit her singular disappointment with her dream kitchen: her Wolf cooktop. Works great but a HUGE job to clean, something that it requires frequently with the heavy use it gets. She seldom uses all six burners and rarely uses the griddle but it involves cleaning the entire cooktop nonetheless because every part gets splattered.

At our ages, there won't be a next time but if there were, she'd get an induction cooktop: the heat response of gas but a breeze to clean.


    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 11:24PM
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Oh my gosh, so far everything has been so helpful

With the hot water dispenser, is it hot enough where you can use it instead of the microwave? For instance, cooking instant oatmeal, hot chocolate? Thanks.

What's wrong with the Shaw sink?

Scwren; thanks for the advise on the Kraftmaid cabintes, we were considering them.

Insecure1: great tip on the Pledge. Maybe Cate 1337 could try that on her oven.

We don't have our new appliances yet, haven't even ordered them...listening to all of you, first! But it is nice to have tips on things. Thanks...appreciate anything and everything!

    Bookmark   April 27, 2008 at 11:55PM
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I really dislike my GE smooth top range..No matter what brands of frying pans I use it burns everything! I'm stuck with it now but I wish I had not of went with a smooth top..It takes daily cleaning with the special cream cleaner to get the marks of the top mine is black..Boil anything over and what a mess to clean up. I thought it would be easy to keep clean NOT..

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 12:12AM
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I also love my instant hot. It it definitely hot enough to make tea, hot chocolate, and instant oatmeal without a kettle or microwave. I also use it to soak a dish before washing. DH pours some in his coffee mug to warm it up, then pours out the water and pours in the coffee. Coffee stays hot longer that way.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 12:16AM
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Just got rid of the overmount sink. Hated it! Too hard to clean.
Last remaining pet peeve: the pantry is in the hall by the kitchen. It's a deep pantry (not a walk in) and there is no lighting in there. The hallway light is a few feet back, and the kitchen lights don't help. I can't see squat in there after sunset. Just had some under counter lights installed over the sink and can't believe how much I love those 2 little hockey pucks.
The jury is still out on the decorative concrete floors. Not so much the concept, but the contractor. Love the ease of cleaning and no grout lines, but we are having issues with the sealer.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 12:37AM
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Our insta-hot is decidedly NOT hot enough for tea, oatmeal, etc. It's coming out at its max which is 160, but we're at over 5,000 feet (elevation). Our Japanese hot-pot (yes, brought back by me from Tokyo) came out at 200 - 208, and that was perfect! Now, I'm dispensing the insta-hot into a large pyrex measuring cup and microwaving it for one minute. Disappointing but not the end of the world.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 12:59AM
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Regarding the cleaning problems with smooth-top ranges...

I use Windex to clean mine (I clean 90% of my house with Windex!). I let the stove top cool a bit, squirt on the Windex, and let it sit. For really tough spots, I use a rubber scrapper, similar to those sold by a spoiled chef company.

So far the Windex and rubber scrapper have worked wonders.

I still want a gas cooktop though!

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 1:00AM
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I do love some things about my Wolf rangetop...The size and number of burners, and it's a great performer...But I agree with Montalvo's DW...Pain in the backside to clean. At first it wasn't bad, but over time (a whole 2 months), the stuff is baked on, the whole thing gets spattered from using one burner, and I'm disappointed...Still pining after the induction I originally thought we'd have, but also knowing it wouldn't do as well with my 2 burner grill/griddle pan and my 15 1/2" skillet that we use a LOT. Oh, well. As I've said, the bad with the good... I heartily apologize to anyone on the appl forum who read anything I wrote too early on that said it wasn't 'too bad' to clean. I just got some Barkeepers Friend to try on it, and may change out my 1 3/4 type sink for a super single so I can soak the underpans to see if it helps.

Boxiebabe, I'm concerned about your idea for pullout shelves above the oven and refrigerator. I think you'll still knock things down, but they'll end up behind the pullout and will be in the way when you try to close it...THEN try to get them out with the pullout shelf in your way! But maybe you're better at these things, because I'm pretty certain that's the way it would work for me! ;-)

I wish I'd given up a bit of kitchen for more pantry, just as I wish I'd put more closets in the rest of the house.

I don't miss the gross, yuck-collecting trash compactor we had in our last house, and instead love the dbl trash pullout for garbage in front and recycle in back.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 1:01AM
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I have a white GE smoothtop. I use Bar Keepers Friend to clean it. Takes off everything easily.


    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 1:48AM
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Count me among the smoothtop haters. Had one growing up and have one now. Can't wait until it dies so I can switch to gas.

I'm also a bit retro I guess in that I have a double sink with equal bowls and LOVE it. Of course, my bowls are both rather huge. SIL has a single sink and it just doesn't work for me at all.

Oh yeah - I'm also looking forward to getting my OTR microwave.

My biggest piece of advice is to lay out / mock up *everything* before you make any final decisions. Pay attention to how well they will function. If I'd known how my faucet would fit with my sink I would have never bought it. The two just do not work well together at all.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 3:32AM
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I'd do without a microwave before I had an OTR again: it's just not a convenient spot, they don't perform well, cost too much, burn out too soon, and are hard to replace.

I dislike floors that need to be pampered: tile for me, with dark grout.

I'm not a fan of single big sinks: many people that have them end up using a plastic tub inside the sink to get the practicallity of a double.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 4:46AM
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Two things that I really dislike in my current pre-remodel kitchen:

Face frame cab units that have a center stile between the doors.

And a refrigerator & range with only a corner lazy susan unit separating them. The countertop is stuck back in the corner hole and is just about useless.

Rhome--I keep a large griddle that spans two burners of my gas range 'stored' on top of my range. It's a lot easier to wipe down when using only a couple of burners on the rest of the stovetop.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 6:23AM
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Regarding the Kraftmaid cabinets: did you get the all plywood upgrade?

Ours are getting installed this week and they seem pretty sturdy.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 6:43AM
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I hate my KitchenAid slide in convection oven! I cringe anytime we have to use it. The oven has a cooling fan that stays on 30 to 45 mins after you turn off the oven. It's one of those noises that you don't realize is annoying until it shuts off and then you go ahhhhh.........thankyou......

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 7:50AM
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It is funny how different we all are. I love my smoothtop range. I HATE, HATE, HATE by OTR Microwave. Aside from all the reasons Oruboris stated above, it's just a bad idea for little kids who use the microwave. Ours also sounds like a jet plane taking off and it really doesn't vent well. We use our current one as a breadbox.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 8:15AM
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Thanks to this forum - not many things I hate, but a couple I wouldn't do again

Pull-out spice rack next to stove - not easy to see what's there and I've found (thanks to this forum) a better way of storing spices in a drawer.

Tray cabinet - lots of wasted space, would have preferred to buy a regular cabinet and add my own dividers.

LOVE my Shaw sink, Dacor cooktop, GE Monogram oven and advantium.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 9:40AM
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So far I don't think there is anything I dislike. Of course in my previous kitchen I don't think there was ANYTHING I liked! I am another lover of the double bowl sink. So many tried to talk me into a single bowl, but for my flow of life it just wasn't going to work. I drain my pots and dislike putting a draining board on the counter. I did choose a 36 inch sink with full 10inch deep bowls. They are very large and since I have a high faucet I don't have a problem even with my VERY large gumbo and jumbalaya pots. I chose the new part ceramic, part cast iron and just absolutely LOVE it. It's a breeze to clean and always looks nice. I previously had shallow stainless steel and hated them although I LOVE all of my stainless appliances. Go figure!

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 9:46AM
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We did our kitchen 5 years ago, and in that time I realized that I dislike the OTR microwave, just too much traffic in front of the range. We had room for a small (18" I think) pantry cabinet and would've redesigned for a larger one in retrospect.

Kraftmade cabinets have been great, although if I was to do it over again I'd go with IKEA (not available in our area at the time). Keep in mind that you will probably want to switch out your cabinets due to changing tastes/styles long before they actually wear out, regardless of the price point. The old crappy builder special cabinets that came with the house we purchased lasted around 30 years and are now serving as a nice workbench in the basement.

Our kitchen is mild retro, and the Formica counters and vinyl flooring have been great. I'm really glad we didn't spend the money for granite and regret going with granite in our more recent bathroom remodel.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 10:00AM
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things I hate in my current kitchen and what I am changing to in my new kitchen:

Hate side by side refrigerator. both sides are too narrow to find things and whenever I open the freezer something jumps out and lands on my foot. New kitchen will have french doors with bottom freezer.

Hate glass top stove. Does not get hot enough, takes too long to cool down, very hard to control the temperature. New kitchen will have a 36" Monogram gass cooktop.

Dislike (won't say hate) tile floor...cold and hard. I am putting hardwood in the new kitchen. the tile is pretty though.

dislike the corian countertops (again...won't say hate). they are so artificial looking and feeling. For almost the same money I can get the beauty of granite.

REALLY hate the noisy range hood!! The new house will have a roof-top blower so I'll only hear the sound of some moving air but not the motor when I am using the fan.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 10:10AM
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I just thought of another dislike. I have a Whirlpool Gold oven/gas stove and the top is black...big mistake!!!!!! It is so hard to keep clean as it shows everything! Wish it would have been a stainless steel stovetop.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 10:20AM
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I hate my porcelain tile floor - hate it, hate it, hate it. My legs and hips ache after standing on it for awhile. It gets cold in the winter. The grout is difficult to clean. It can't be swept with a broom because crumbs sit down in the gorut. The legs of the kitchen chairs get stuck in the grout lines. One tile has cracked and so has some of the grout. Did I say I hate it? I hate it.

I do like my OTR MW, though.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 11:00AM
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My list would not be things I dislike because I have had all of the elements listed below in prior kitchens and enjoyed them. The list is my recommendations and it is geared to those interested in a lower level of maintenance.

(1) stained wood cabinets, not painted cabinets

(2) no glass cabinet doors, love the look but not keeping the glass clean

(3) stainless steel sink, not a fireclay or a porcelain sink, because the sink needs to look good and hold up as long as the granite surrounding it; and

(4) a wood floor as opposed to a tile floor; never thought I'd say this about a wood floor in a kitchen as it was my toughest decision and I was apprehensive about it but it has proven to be easy to maintain and easy on the legs.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 11:03AM
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I hate OTR microwave. If you hate smooth top range and gas
cooktop, what's left? I had gas Kitchenaid cooktop in my last
house and yes grease splatters and things boil over occasionally. Every cooktop requires cleaning, not just a
certain brand. I have a smooth top at the moment, and yep, I
have to clean it also.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 11:07AM
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Thank you, this is really helping with my decisions of what NOT to get.

Soupgirl--- Ditto on the wood floor. We've had our floors for 14 years and love them and are just going to refinish them for the first time when we remodel.

CCoombs--- What brand is your range hood? I would definitely recommend the hardwood floors.

Luvnola--- Good for you! Sounds like you made great decisions for your kitchen, that's what I am hoping to do.
What kind of sink and faucet do you have?

Pbrisjar---this may be a stupid question, but how can you tell if the faucet will work in a sink, especially if you buy them at different places? Thanks.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 11:21AM
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I do like to read this list, and wonder if I'm in for an unpleasant surprise one day with my OTR MW! Compared to the honking big old brown Maytag MW that I had bought used at an auction for $8 12 years ago, My brilliant white Panasonic MW is such a joy! DH and I probably use the MW more than any other appliance- I must heat up a cup of coffee 4-5X a day, and that's pretty well the only way we cook veggies. I love the location, in my kitchen, I jealously guard all my counter space and I don't know what cupboard space I could sacrifice... So, I'll let you know in another 10 years if this baby is still ticking...

Now, I am seriously considering getting a new sink- since I get the redo with the double sink which I really like is a scant 1" too small to lay my gas stove grates flat- I think that would make life a little easier if I could soak them, but really I could buy a lot of BarKeeper's Friend for the price of a new sink...ummm decisions, decisions...

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 11:38AM
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Look at all the measurements - especially faucet reach vs. faucet hole placement. In our case the faucet we got (Danze Opulence) on our Blanco Silgranit Double Equal sink just doesn't have any reach at all. The water stream is waaay up in the far back - pretty much up against the sink wall. No way to set a bowl under it and it means you have to stretch to hold something under the water. May not seem like a big deal but when you hand wash most of your dishes that stretching adds up.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 11:44AM
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I wanted a glasstop even though we had gas which my husband loved so we did it and it was a pain to clean and those glasstop cleaners did nothing... but I took the suggestion thinking it would never work but I use the powered Barkeeper's on the top and it doesn't scratch and 90% of the time works great - when it doesn't we wait, use the stove and the next time everything comes off strange enough....that stuff really does work much to my surprise...

We are very happy with the choices we made... we took a hard look at our lifestyle and didn't always go with the popular choice but what fit us best (i.e. vinyl over tile due to grout). My only wish was we had more space for things like a pantry/broom closet but we have a small house and gratefully have a basement downstairs for storage so it's not a big deal.

One thing I'd be careful with was our Ikea faucet... our funny story was the top part came of from the base/knobs so I had water spewing everywhere for a second before I realized inbetween laughing to turn off the knobs (luckily they worked fine up top so I didn't need to go in the cabinet as we have shut of valves everywhere). My husband easily screwed it back on and it works great again so I will not replace it as it's cute... but that was a disappointment. If we weren't DIY and I had to call a plumber I'd be pissed... but it was funny and I was too busy laughing and saying oh sh@t to tell my husband what happened...holding half the faucet in my hand...I think it was from me rocking it side to side to much but you should be able to do that.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 12:28PM
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if you don't like the fridge sticking out you might still be able to pull it out and build a recess in the drywall behind. Our fridge stuck out more than what we expected. And even though all the cabinetry had been installed at the time we had our contractor pull out the fridge and cut a recess into the drywall behind. Took a couple of hours of work and the result is well worth it.

In hindsight I wouldn't have chosen the black fridge we have right now. We were told it would come in a matte finisch but it is in fact high-gloss and shows fingerprints as badly as any ss fridge. Next time I would like around a bit harder to find a fridge with a titanium surface or whatever ss type finish might be available then that won't show dirt as easy.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 1:07PM
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momintheclub, my current hood is a broan, but it's one of the lower-end ones. It cost maybe $150. The one in my new house will also be a broan, but it is a high end one with the remote 900 cfm blower so noise won't be a problem. The blower houseing will be on the roof of my house. YAY! The new house has a really open floor plan and I didn't conversations in the livingroom to have to compete with the noise from the range hood.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 1:16PM
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Ci lantro, I do keep my 2 burner griddle on one end of the rangetop...Maybe with 8 burners, I need another one! ;-) Or need to move it around more... I will survive it...Maybe I'll be better when there's so much burnt on, no more 'shiny' is showing! I've actually thought of having the black pans painted with something matte at the auto body shop that's painting my refrigerator and freezer grills (that came WHITE on SS appliances), but with the heat the pans are exposed to, I don't think I'll start messing with Wolf's finish.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 1:19PM
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I read this forum religiously before we finalized out kitchen choices. Thanks to it, I love just about everything in our new kitchen . . . except I don't have a place for my dishtowel and it's always lying around looking messy. I WILL find a good place to hang it soon, though!
What I hated in my last kitchen:
* SS appliances (disliked the look and the fingerprints)
* sink in island with an eating area: it got everything wet (see pic below)
* too many things around my sink ( faucet w separate hot & cold knobs, air gap, insta hot faucet, filtered water faucet, sprayer) made it a bear to clean that area. That, I hated the most, I think. Here's a pic of that area along with the narrow eating area right behind the sink that the idiot builder thought was adequate!

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 1:42PM
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The one thing I dislike about my current kitchen is my white ceramic (or enamel - not quite sure since I didn't put it in) sink. I always thought I wanted this type of material for a sink, but living with it has changed my mind. It NEVER looks clean -- even putting bleach in there and letting it soak doesn't get out all the stains. For that reason I'm going with a stainless steel undermount instead.
The rest of the stuff I don't like in the kitchen is just that it is old, outdated and has a bad flow - all of which I hope to rectify in the remodel!

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 1:53PM
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I adore my OTR microwave, but not because its OTR, rather I adore it because its a fabulous appliance. Its a whirlpool velos- MW, convection oven and grill. I can back a lasagne and the pan will fully rotate, I can grill a t-bone, fry an egg, steam my broccoli and warm up my coffee.

That said, the OTR position does have its drawbacks and when we remodel we will probably relocate our MW, which will mean getting a different, less fabulous MW.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 1:55PM
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I dislike my Bosch diswasher. It is stainless, and the stainess is impossible to keep looking nice. My other appliances are stainless too and I have no trouble keeping them looking nice, so my complaint is really only about the Bosch dishwasher's stainless. If I had it to do over again, I would have gotten a cabinet panel for it. Also, I don't think think the Bosch cleans the dishes as well as my old dishwasher. I do like how quiet it is though.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 2:05PM
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I can see how you would hate cleaning around all of those fixtures on the sink AND having the sink on the island when the eating is so close. How do you get around having all those fixtures (if you want or need them)? Would the sink have to be bigger? I can see that you could just have an all in one faucet to alleviate the 3 for that part, but I don't know how you get around the others.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 2:34PM
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Dislike isn't quite enough and hate is too strong, so I'm going for loath.

I loath the all-gas ge profile convection range. In not quite three years, the oven sides have rust where the enamel chipped off from the oven racks, the base burner cover has developed this 12" funky round place where the finish isn't smooth, trapping more junk.

The large single flame burner diameter is too large - the only pan I could possible use it on high with would be a crab pot. I tried getting larger pans, but that only worked to make us larger!

The simmer burner is too high at low and its diameter is too small - I am getting a third party simmer plate to try. The small burners have flame spreaders have little knobby projections that are supposed to lock into the burner - whatever metal they are made of is really soft and showing extradinary wear.

The broiler just completely sucks.

The ceramic glass top is becoming scratched. The only positive thing I can say about it is that the self-cleaning works well. It will give me a great deal of satisfaction when its replaced. At the rate its going, I shouldn't have to wait long.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 4:04PM
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Do not like 36" SxS fridge -- even though deep, too many things get lost in back of shelves. Can't wait to get counter depth 48" one.

Also hate having to close my DW in order to get to my disposal switch when standing at sink. Must get air switch next time.

rhome -- Given the cleaning difficulties with the Wolf, if you could do it over, which rangetop would you get (if still getting a gas, not induction)?

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 12:27AM
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I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one obsessed with the fact that my fridge sticks out an inch and a half beyond the cabinetry. We built a recess for the fridge, but the architect mismeasured, and it has an oven behind it, so it is not possible to fix. Really irritates me, but if that's my biggest problem, I guess I'm doing pretty well.
Had a trash compactor in my last kitchen and am SO glad to be rid of that!
I obsessed about a dishrack and where I would put it in this kitchen, as the sink is on the island which is open to the dining/livingroom. We just spread out a dish towel and put the hand washed stuff there, give it a quick swipe at the end of clean up and put it away. The kitchen looks so much cleaner all of the time than my last kitchen did. I'm amazed that I wasted so much time worrying about that issue.
We love our Instahot. It isn't quite hot enough for my taste for tea, unless I fill the cup first with the Instahot water to warm the cup, and then make the tea. That works great.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 12:40AM
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Can not STAND our Viking glass top range. There's no way to simmer anything. Now if you want to boil everything, this is the range for you, but otherwise forget it. I realize it's a "professional" brand, and that "professionals" cook nearly everything on high heat because they need to get dinner out of the restaurant kitchen FAST, but at home? Unh-unh...pain in the batooshka. And what a pain to clean..rubber scrapers, special cleansers, etc., but yea.. all stoves are a pain to clean I guess.

Our black (granite looking) Corian counters. After just a year they look dull and boring.

Another double sink hater here. We now have a stainless deep farm type sink and I LOVE that!

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 4:04AM
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My bisque side by side fridge is a monster.

Sort of like buying a Christmas tree in a field, I bought this without a clear size reference of how big it would be in my house. I should have know it was going to be a problem when the delivery crew
1. couldn't get it through the front door,
2. said even if it could get through the door, would never make the turn into the kitchen, and
3. had to remove my sliders to shimmy it into the house.

I'm trying to be grateful that it's very nice looking, holds a ton of stuff and works great. But secretly, I wish I could trade it for a smaller model.

On the upside, I can show movies on it if I have to.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 6:38AM
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dian57...that's funny....I was just thinking about refrigerator sizes the other day as I was looking at them. For some reason, my first instince is to get the biggest one they have. But why?? The kids are grown and gone, and it's just DH and I. So I made a decision...I am getting a smaller GE Profile fridge with the hidden hinges. It's still full-sized, but a couple inches shorter and a couple inches narrower. I think it will be perfect.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 8:02AM
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I hate the performance of my built-in KitchenAid SxS refrigerator. The temperature reliability is awful. The produce drawers are always 42-45 degrees, even though the fridge is set to 36 degrees (and actually measures at 32 degrees in the upper shelves). It was replaced once (the original had crisper temps at 50 degrees) after a year-long fight with KA, during which I discarded hundreds of dollars of spoiled food. The replacement model is marginally better. KA has always enjoyed good ratings in Consumer Reports and elsewhere, but the newest report rates the temperature performance of this model as "good" -- which is actually the worst of the models they tested (all others were "very good" or "excellent.") Seems to me that this is the most important feature in a fridge -- the ability to keep food at the proper cold temperatures -- and any fridge that can't do this well should NOT be recommended. Every time I pull out more rotten food from the crisper drawers, I get mad all over again.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 10:24AM
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Oh, Coolbeams, I feel horrible for you! I can only imagine how frustrating that must be for you, not to mention expensive. I am still trying to decide on a refrigerator and ovens, sooooooooo I think maybe the Kitchenaid just got put in my "no" pile. Thanks. But, of course we know we can't please all the people all the time! I am just hoping I can find, with the help of GW, the best possible dbl. ovens and refrigerator to buy.

Ccoombs, what GE did you decide on?

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 11:35AM
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There are a number of niggling things I wish I'd done differently, but given the size of our kitchen and the price limit most don't bother me that much. That said, if I could change *one* thing it would be the depth of the upper cabinets. Instead of regular depth if I had made them just a few inches deeper larger items like chargers would have fit easily.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 11:38AM
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I have to give a shout out to the POs of our house, who did the kitchen remodel 8 years ago. Yes, we are "tweaking" it soon, but it will be more a matter of style and expanding size for our 3 kids than layout/performance. Reading this thread I realize how lucky I am to have--

--Thermador SS sealed-burner cooktop. I am thinking of replacing it just because simmer burners have come a long way in 8 years, but cleaning has never been an issue. Unless I have lower standards than some here...a distinct possibility, LOL...
we have the same cooktop at the family Cape house in shiny black and that one is awful. Shows every crumb and smudge.

--42'' side by side built-in (counter depth) Monogram fridge. I really wish it had water and ice in the door, but we have never had any other problems (after working out kinks with the icemaker years ago). There is room for everything and nothing gets lost. I would recommend this size to anyone.


    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 12:25PM
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Starfish...Good question. It's so hard to know without having experience with any others, or even personally knowing anyone with any of the others. I really went into this pretty blind, except for the wonderful counsel here and on the appliance forum. I'm not sure there's a better gas choice for me, just different trade-offs. I think now that in a dream, price-is-no-object kitchen, I'd go with a combination of gas and induction, but since you've said no induction, these are my thoughts:

I would look more at BlueStar, which was on my list, but scared me a bit...I am not a take everything apart and clean it type of person, so thought the Wolf would be a happy medium between sealed and the so many parts and pieces that the BlueStar has. I also thought the gaps under the BlueStar meant too many things would fall through...Now I know that this would keep things from burning onto the underpans. I also thought its cast iron parts would be harder to clean, but now, with having the cast iron grates and porcelain enamel covered underpans, I see that the cast iron will eventually season and get 'patina' (get darker as any stains blend together) and never really look any worse. I would still worry more about boil overs in a BlueStar. Sticky rice or bean water dripping all the way down into the stove was the thought that confirmed my decision to go with Wolf when I did. The drip pan on either will catch things, but after it drips through and over the wires and other inner workings. Yuck. Still, I would give BlueStar many more points in the decision than I did before, because of the cast iron parts.

Then there are sealed burner types. On researching cleanability I read varying opinions...Either glowing or VERY against them. I was afraid to get something I might hate. In brands, I was limited because of wanting 8 burners, and few offer this configuration. I think Capital was my only choice. I also have LP, and many of the other brands offer less power when converted to LP, while BlueStar, Wolf, and Capital make theirs specifically for each type of gas, so there is no power difference between the 2. I see now that Monogram does this, so maybe DCS does, too. Someone told me recently that Dacor has an especially easy to clean stainless surface, so that might have been worth a look, although they don't have that many fans on the appliance forum. It looks like the porcelain covered cast iron underpans on the Monogram come out. I might look at that, even though I'd have to give up having 8 burners.

I still believe in the dual ring, open burners on the Wolf, and really like that each burner offers me the same power, so I can choose burners by how it's best for me and what pots I'm using at the time, and not be limited by what power they offer. It is a wonderful appliance...except for the dumb, shiny black pans. I hated those in electric coil ranges, but at least they were cheap to replace.

Sorry this got so long.

When I...

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 1:19PM
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Hollylh, I too must give a shout out to our PO. Our kitchen has been great for us for 18 years. But, I think this is what is so frustrating for me. Now that we have decided to redo our kitchen after 18 years and altough all appliances have worked well, I have the opportunity to get all new and... I can't make up my mind! UGH! I just want someone to tell me what to do!

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 1:36PM
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This type of towel rack... grrr

Looks great, comes off in your hand!

Does not glide it judders.


Here is a link that might be useful: Towel Rack

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 2:06PM
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mominthedubc: what do you have now and why do you like them? can you get basically the same stuff, only 2008 versions? not companies, but style/size/etc. Manufacturers and who owns what have changed so much in the last 18 years (eg apparently Maytag is now terrible)...too bad you can't just get the same things. It would be interesting to hear what has worked for you for so long! (although I know this thread is supposed to be about things we hate...)

just to stick to topic, BTW, there was an Asko dishwasher here when we moved in, and it was awful. Quiet and efficient, but when it broke it really broke (the third and final time, the SS tub does that happen?) and there was no fixing it. Now we have a basic Bosch and I am very happy.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 2:13PM
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I disagree about the insta-hot being hot enough for tea and coffee. The In-sink-erator one I had only got up to 190 degrees, and none of them get up to the boiling point. 190 IMHO is not hot enough for tea, bagged or loose.

OK, so I'm a tea and coffee snob. I did not like the flavor at all. I bought an electric water kettle that boils 1 cup of water in 70 seconds, faster than most MWs.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 2:30PM
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I'm so sorry to hear you say your Hafele Oval Towel Rack [i.e., bars] is not working for you. That's the one I was intending to use in my open (doorless) towel cabinet. Since it cost more than some other brands, I assumed it would work better.

You said it "comes off in your hand" -- do you mean there is nothing to prevent the bar from pulling out all the way until it falls off? Can you somehow add a set screw to prevent this? Would some lubricant or bee's wax help to make it glide smoother (sounds like it needs ball bearings)? Is yours mounted on the top or the side?

Does anyone have, or know of, a sliding towel bar that works better than the Hafele that Whooooooosh bought?

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 3:42PM
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whoooooooooosh, thanks for sending a picture of the towel rack. Much easier to know what NOT to get.

muccia, I don't know much about the Insta-hot or anything else for that matter. Are there other models out there that would be hot enough for tea? I just thought I would like to have the water and hot dispenser.

hollylh, we have:
GE spacemaker mw, which we will get again.
Whirlpool slide in range and cooktop. But now we are getting Dbl ovens and separate cooktop; either Ge Monogram or Electrolux for ovens and Dacor cooktop.
GE refrigerator
Kenmore DW
Basically, a little of everything. And like you said, products & reliabilty have changed in 18 years.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 3:51PM
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I won't speak of my current kitchen b/c it is just awful all the way around and soon to be ripped out (hopefully)!!! But I will speak of my previous kitchen that was in a somewhat "custom-built" house in an upscale neigborhood.

I pretty much hated everything about this kitchen. Nice to look at....PITA to use!!!

First...the brick pavered floor. I have always thought I wanted brick flooring in the kitchen and full bricks may be different, but these pavers were awful. My knees and feet always hurt esp. around the holidays. Could not keep clean. I like to walk barefoot on clean floors and these floors never felt clean (the grout) and the grout stained easily.

Second....the smooth top cooking surface. Easy to clean - M* A#@!!

Third...the WHITE SXS refrigerator! It was not easy to keep clean either even being white b/c the handles were always dirty from little boys hands. Finally, the magic eraser was invented and that worked on the handles. SxS..nothing fit. It too stuck out from the CTs and was not quite even in its space b/c of the UNEVEN BRICK PAVERS :)

The white ceramic sink (always having to bleach) and the very noisy GE Profile oven fan that ran forever after the oven was off.

The tile countertops that weren't properly sealed (grout stains)...

OTOH, the GE Profile DW in that house did work really well (didn't even have to dry plastic!!!)

Off to baseball practice, hope this helps!!!


    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 6:11PM
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I bought a 3 bar sliding towel holder from Ikea for, I think, about $10 and it works just fine. Slides in and out smoothly and there's a stop so it doesn't come out all the way and fall out in your hand. FWIW

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 6:36PM
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In my previous kitchen I had a continuous-feed disposal for which the switch was installed next to the light switch for the undercounter lights. I flicked the wrong switch about a million times, particularly at night (tired) or in the morning (pre-coffee). I now have a batch-feed disposal for which no switch is needed whatsoever. Aaaah. So, when thinking about disposal installation, I recommend either a batch feed style with no switch, or a continuous feed style with an air switch in the counter. No disposal switch in the backsplash if you can avoid it!

Also, while I do dislike my SxS fridge configuration cause of its narrowness, I have to mention that it is a Kitchenaid, and performance-wise, has never given a bit of trouble, and has been dead-on accurate in temperature. I know a few people on this thread have had trouble with their Kitchenaids, so I don't know what to say. Mine's been excellent. I wonder if Kitchenaid (actually Whirlpool) has different factories for their SxS fridges, and the performance depends on where it was made?

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 7:00PM
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Thanks o much. The suggestion about the garbage disposal is a good one. Although I don't know what a"batch-feed" is, I will research that and find out.

I am confused about the Kitchen Aid fridge. Some people love it, like you and some hate it. The person at the appliance store has been pointing me in the direction of GE or Electrolux over the KA. Don't know what to do...

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 8:09PM
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Mominthedubc - I think the differences between the two styles of disposals have been discussed a lot on the Appliances Forum, so search there as well as this forum. But warning, LOL, those Appliance Forum people get very heated about their disposal choices!

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 8:39PM
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I could of used a cheaper dishwasher, but instead I bought a LG that was over $600. I got the one with the controls on the door. Bad Idea. I should of got the hidden controls because of the kids.

I don't like the brown tile look vinyl floor I picked out. Blah

I wish I would of made my drawers deeper then they are. I can't store any big stuff in them.

I LOVE my tapmaster, but I could of done without it. I find myself adjusting the water all the time.

I would of skipped the extra money on the pull out in the cabinet above the fridge. I still need a chair to get something out of it.
I wish I had put a trashcan in the cabinet. I'm having the hardest time picking out a free standing one.

I still have the backsplash to do, so hopefully I make some good choices on that.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 9:36PM
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- My old stainless sink, which has the disposal in a tiny shallow sink so that every time I run it, dirty water and food fly out.

- My hideous old pantry which is one of those with a rotating unit in the center. This 36" can't hold anything wider than a can of beans! The shelves on the doors - can depth. The rotating dealy-bobby in the middle? Can depth. And the shelves along the back wall - can depth! ARGG! No place for a cereal box, a bag of flour, nothing.

- I wouldn't say hate, but I have little affection for my tiny island.

- I do hate having to go around the tiny island to get from the sink to the fridge or oven or micro.

However, unlike many posters, I love my compactor. So much so, I put a 2nd one in my walk in pantry for recyclables. LOVE IT! All the cans and cardboard boxes get crushed and take up much less space so the week's worth of recycling doesn't fill up the whole house :)

I also love my sxs cd fridge.


    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 9:55PM
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mominthe--sounds like you are making good choices. I am not one of those fridge performance people, but maybe that is because I have had a good one for a while. Unless it freezes the produce I'm happy. To me it's more the size and setup.

I am now a huge fan of batch disposals--which, I don't know, might now be code here in MA. That's because I am the one with skinny hands who is always fishing the teaspoon out, and I am VERY happy there is no switch anywhere that could be turned on while my hand is submerged!! Can't think about it too much...too gross...but it's one paranoia I can put to rest now :)

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 11:18PM
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Mom2twinsandtriplets (Wow, by the way!) How deep are your drawers?

Nomorebluekitchen...I, too like our trash compactor but from this forum I was thinking I would switch to a pull out with a trash and recycling, ugh don't tell me I am going to have to make this decision, too! lol

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 1:52AM
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momintheclub, the model number of the profile refrig I am getting is PFSS2MIXSS. This is so cool...the door panel is a little higher, so you can't see the hinges from the front! I love the look. It's 22.2 cu ft which is more than enough for just the two of us. Besides...I am putting an dorm refrigerator in the sunroom for beverages.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 7:33AM
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I dislike the evolution of my current kitchen. It was 'updated' in the 1950s with the addition of a lowered ceiling and cosmetic changes. We updated it in 1986 by adding an island where there was barely room to fit. There is 31'' between the island and the sink, which is bad enough. But, the DW is directly behind the sink. All the admonishments to consider location when cabinet and appliance doors are open is very wise.

nuccia, I am a tea snob, too. I hang a timer around my neck to be sure it steeps exactly 4 minutes. Not all insta-hot type systems supply water too cool for tea; some do heat water close to boiling. I use a Zo hot pot that keeps water at 208, and reboils really fast.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 8:09AM
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The only thing I really don't like is not having enough shallow drawers. I have tons of utensils and gadgets and could use more shallow drawers in which to store them. I have plenty of deep drawers, so I wish I had thought through more carefully where I would store every little thing.

I have a Kitchen Aid side-by-side counter-depth fridge and I love it. The temperatures have been just perfect so far (I've only had it since January). I have a back-up, full-width fridge, so on the extremely rare occasion that something is too big for the side-by-side, I have a place to put it. So far, even the largest pizza box we have tried has fit in fine. A freezer drawer simply would not work for the way I use my freezer. I do a lot of cooking ahead and have tons of single-serving containers stacked in the freezer.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 9:07AM
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The assertions from two self-proclaimed tea snobs force me to put my oar in also. (British tea drinkers may wish to skip this message, as the level of tannin they like and the necessity for milk or cream to cancel its carcinogenic properties makes the effect of boiling water on the tea leaf moot.)

Notwithstanding the obvious fact that tea likes and dislikes are a matter of personal choice, the basic purpose of using boiling water to make tea is water sterilization. Wannabe tea affectionados may wish to spend time at the tea usegroup (, or visiting quality tea vendors, such as Uptons and Specialteas, for more information about tea, steeping temperatures, and time.

From sources such as these they will find that the optimal temperature and time for brewing is a function of the tea source and the tea leaf's level of enzymatic reaction, commonly called fermentation (although technically no fermentation is involved) or oxidation.

When tea leaves are picked and rolled, a reaction takes place in the leaf at a rate proportional to temperature, so the level of "fermentation" is a function of temperature and time between picking and firing (heating) of the leaf to stop the reaction. These variables along with the differences in picking time, climate, and soils, lead to different teas and different optimal times and temperatures for steeping.

My opinion on approximate steeping temperature ranges for representative tea types follows, although I believe it to generally coincide with the consensus view for high quality teas. Steeping time is a matter of taste, but for maximum bioflavinoids and minimal tannin, the times should be reduced as the oxidation level increases. Caffein is released in the first 30 seconds or so, so it is not a criterion for steeping time.

Chinese white teas 145 - 155F
Chinese and Japanese green teas 155 - 165F
lightly fermented teas such as Lake Tung Ting oolongs and 1st flush Darjeelings 165 - 175F
more heavily fermented oolongs and 2nd flush Darjeelings 175 - 185F
Chinese black teas 185 - 195F
Tea fannings from Ceylon found in diner tea bags - go ahead an blast them with boiling water, it won't make them any worse.

The point is that if one is making tea from quality loose tea leaf, a hot water source that doesn't supply boiling water is not inappropriate in most cases, and may need tempering with some colder water to achieve the proper temperature for the intended tea. I also recommend a reverse osmosis system if one's water supply affects the tea's taste.

Written with a cup of Puttabong Estate 2nd Flush Darjeeling steeped at ~ 175F for 2 minutes


Here is a link that might be useful: Upton Tea Imports

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 11:36AM
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How one makes tea, as well as coffee, is a personal choice. I prefer the method I've used for 15 years because it makes a cup of tea to my liking. I do not dispute the recitation, nor is it new information to me. I drink tea because I enjoy it. Health benefits may or may not be valid; my tea has milk and sugar added.

Do enjoy your Puttabong Estate 2nd Flush Darjeeling.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 12:00PM
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I hate the fact that I am STUCK in my kitchen remodel because I can't make a backsplash decision.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 12:25PM
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Iwantakitchen, at least you have gotten as far as a backsplash. I am still stuck on appliances!

Holligator, what is the model # of your KA CD? How long have you had it? I keep going back and forth among, KA, Profile and Monogram.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 12:59PM
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The only thing I really dislike is my black dishwasher and wall oven. I think they clash with the soapstone (which we have kept in its natural dark grey color). I have been planning to change these out to stainless in the future, but hearing everyone else complain about stainless has me rethinking. My good friend is getting stainless in her new kitchen. I will have to see how she likes it/how it looks in use.

Said in a really small whisper: I really like (love) everything else about my kitchen. I wouldn't change anything.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 1:06PM
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Insecure1, the brown pledge worked! Thank you thank you thank you. You should have seen 5'2" me up on a step-stool, then with a microfiber cloth, soaked in Pledge, fastened on my Swiffer, swiping away at the vent hood chimney.

Btw, I found a delightful gardenia-scented natural countertop cleaner at Whole Foods. It works just fine, but the smell... I have to confess that I made DH sniff my hands an hour later just because it smells so good.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 1:15PM
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Holligator, what is the model # of your KA CD? How long have you had it?

Mine is the KSCS25FTSS, and we've had it since January. Normally, I can't stand Best Buy for appliances, but when I just Googled to get the model number, it came up with a fantastic deal on this fridge from Best Buy! Only $1,799.99--about $600 less than what we paid on sale at Lowe's.

Here is a link that might be useful: Great deal on this fridge from Best Buy

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 1:22PM
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is this pledge in a brown can furniture polish? the aresol spray can?

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 2:26PM
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I just love it when people share and we all benefit. Hopefully more people will read about Insecure1's suggestion about the Pledge on SS, such an easy fix! Thanks so much. Now if I can just decide on the appliances so I can USE the Pledge!

Holligator, thanks for the info on the Fridge.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 3:05PM
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Yup, brown-colored-can aerosol furniture polish Pledge. Moisturizing, I think. I picked some up at Kroger last night. It was between the yellow, lemony and white, anti-allergen options.

Here is a link that might be useful: I think I could have lived without it

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 3:22PM
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RE: KA fridges, I haven't read complaints about their freestanding, counter-depth, and/or french door models. The poor temperature regulation seems to be in the side-by-side built-in models.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 3:40PM
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I really, really dislike my Dacor ss gas cook top. I'm happy to be moving and leaving it behind! So long dirty, staining POS cooktop! I have a friend w/ the same cooktop, manufactured about 8 years ago and they stain - brown, high heat burn marks. Also, bye bye Dacor downdraft vent. I've set the fire alarm off countless times in this house b/c the vent is not powerfull enough for searing meats.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 3:53PM
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I just love it when people share and we all benefit. Hopefully more people will read about Insecure1's suggestion about the Pledge on SS, such an easy fix! Thanks so much. Now if I can just decide on the appliances so I can USE the Pledge!

I was told to avoid using any products on SS for as long as possible. I have used nothing on my SS fridge and DW except a damp microfiber cloth, followed by a dry microfiber cloth (the range needs a cleaner to get greasy messes). Four months later and still no finger prints. Then again, I don't have little people here on a regular basis, but I do have several grown and not-careful males who do their best to make a mess.

Holligator, thanks for the info on the Fridge.

You're welcome--I hope you can take advantage of that incredible deal!

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 4:02PM
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Mistake in planning: hydronic toekick heater (fantastic) right next to pull out trash cabinet. Gently warms the trash...

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 4:59PM
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To Coolbeans: Thank you. It is always so confusing, wondering if these complaints apply to the whole brand or not. I have heard of problems with the ice maker with the CD. So, now I am trying to decide on Monogram, Profile or KA sxs w/ ice and water in door. Thought it would be easier!

To Holligator:
"I was told to avoid using any products on SS for as long as possible. I have used nothing on my SS fridge and DW except a damp microfiber cloth, followed by a dry microfiber cloth (the range needs a cleaner to get greasy messes). Four months later and still no finger prints. Then again, I don't have little people here on a regular basis, but I do have several grown and not-careful males who do their best to make a mess."

Oops, guess I had better ask the Dealer before using the Pledge. I'll try the microfiber first. Thanks

To: NE flyingdiver, LOL about the Dacor hood!

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 5:09PM
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I love the kitchen forum because it is a wonderful source of real life experience as well as many opinions, pros and cons, about whatever the product du jour happens to be. Occasionally, an "expert" will join in and give background information as a matter of clarification. This is what I assumed kaseki attempted to do with his/her discourse on the "proper brewing temperatures" of various teas.

I love a good, strong (but not bitter) cup of tea with milk (gasp!) or occasionally lemon and honey. My personal experience has been that when the water temperature is not boiling or close to boiling, the tea (in my opinion) has a muddied flavor. When using tea bags (double gasp!), the tea tastes like paper. I am aware that white and green teas are brewed at lower temperatures, but I do not care for them. Darjeeling is one of my favorite teas, so when kaseki said she/he brewed it at 175F for 2 minutes, I was genuinely intrigued and followed the link he/she so helpfully provided to Upton Tea Imports.

Interestingly though, the site stated that most teas are brewed at 212F. I then followed the links to the Puttabong Estate 2nd Flush Darjeeling and was pleasantly surprised to find the following:

"From a first-rate estate, this is a full-flavored selection with hints of chestnuts and pleasing muscatel notes. The cup is rich enough to support a touch of milk or cream but is also excellent plain. Steeping Suggestions: Leaf Quantity: 2¼ g/cup; Water Temp: 212° (boiling); Steep Time: 3 min."

It sounds that while kaseki has excellent taste in tea, he/she doesn't practice what his/her own experts teach and implies that his/her personal preference is the "correct" brewing method!

cotehele and I like tea brewed with boiling water, and kaseki doesn't--it's that simple!

I'm apologize for going off on a rant--I should have let the comments slide, but I'm a Taurus...

Here is a link that might be useful: Puttabong Estate 2nd Flush Darjeeling Info from Upton Tea Imports

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 11:58PM
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MLS 99, I meant to say LOL to you regarding the warm trash. :)

NE Flyingdiver, sorry...there's nothing funny about setting off the fire alarm, I know because it happens to us all the time.

Does anyone have any experience with Electrolux appliances where you would NOT recommend them?

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 12:19AM
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Now this is called as an active post.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 6:53AM
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Holligator, you said, "The only thing I really don't like is not having enough shallow drawers. I have tons of utensils and gadgets and could use more shallow drawers in which to store them. I have plenty of deep drawers..."

For organizing I am thinking about "double decker drawers" in my deeper drawers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Double decker drawers

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 7:26AM
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I have the Frigidaire Duel Fuel Slide In Range (Electrolux is the company I have to deal with for repairs). After a couple of uses, the enamel started chipping off the grates. When I phoned the service company they said they'd just rec'd an email from Electrolux saying that the grates were NOT covered under the warranty! What???

I was prepared to take my range back and get a different one. But when I phoned Electrolux head office, they said they'd replace them ONE TIME as a customer service gesture. Took several months, several phone calls and emails, and they finally arrived last week. They look like they are much more heavily coated than the ones that came with the stove- though they didn't send a middle grate (no burner under the middle one). Knowing this, I might avoid Electrolux for any more purchases. I mean how would you know what is and isn't covered when you buy an extended warranty (that costs $$$$) you expect everything is!

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 2:47PM
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I did lubricate it with silcon spray... no improvement

2 of the towel bars, when pulled, came out and off in my hand.

I mounted it to the side of my cabinet, because my cabinets were too deep to mount from the rear. The bars would not have extended far enough had I rear mounted.

You know, these towel rack posts are rather explicit... winks

Anyone had any luck with another towel rack of a similar design?

Oh... I'm english, I like my tea made with boiling water, with 1% milk and NO sugar. The milk is not to mask the tannin as I don't let mine 'steep' long enough to get that thickish, heavy tannin depth. Just enough to infuse the flavour and NOT tast hot water. Okay?

Kettle's boiling!

The design is flawed.


    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 3:28PM
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To raehelen: Thanks. I was considering Electrolux but I think you've helped me decide not to. However, I know there are problems with every manufacturer. Wouldn't it be nice if there was one where we could say they handled everything brilliantly?

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 4:43PM
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Our Electrolux freezer came with a dent on the back. I really think it was due to storage or transport, but Electrolux replaced it. I contacted our appliance salesman about the damage, and he did the communicating with Electrolux on this, so maybe that's why we got good service?-- Not sure, but in this case I have no complaints about their speed or their taking responsibility for the appliance. I'm sorry to hear that others aren't able to say the same.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 5:33PM
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Holligator, went and checked out the KA CD today and decided this was it, thank you! But then when I checked the specs and actually measured it at Best Buy, it seems pretty deep; 33 1/4" with handles. So, how does yours work in your kitchen? We do not want a fridge to stick out like ours does now, but this KA seems like it will stick out a lot. I don't get it. Thanks.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 8:43PM
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I really dislike that in my current kitchen I can not simmer on my gas cooktop.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 9:21PM
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My fridge is sky blue in color and it is loosing its color its getting black in color I tried almost all the cleaners but no use I am afraid it will loose its looks soon.Now I am thinking of using some strong cleaners acid based but am afraid that it will make the condition more worst.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 2:25AM
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Just have to comment on the pull out shelves in lower cabinets. If you can't have drawers, they are the best! It cracks me up that having to do 2 simple motions bothers some people. Would I rather simply open the door and pull out the shelf where I can easily access things in the back of the cab or would I rather take a bunch of stuff out first and kill my back and knees (neither of which are the greatest) to see back in there in the first place and then to FINALLY get the big pot or cans of cranberry sauce or whatever? And then to put all the front stuff back in. (Not to mention, having to take it all out again to replace the pot!!) No question!!! I bought a couple of these on ebay and installed them in lower cabs and it was a great move.

As for fridges, I got my side by side a long while ago and am looking forward to replacing it. I wanted it so much at the time, thinking it would be great not having to reach down just to get some milk or juice. But the lack of horizontal space drives me crazy. Same with the freezer....won't even hold a frozen pizza. I hate it.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 9:51AM
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jessie21, your decision to install pull-outs in existing cabinets is definitely an improvement over shelves in most cases. But if you're building/remodeling a kitchen, drawers are still a more convenient solution.

Making a kitchen as user-friendly and efficient as possible really can increase your enjoyment while working in the kitchen. IMHO, replacing "two simple motions" with one is only common sense when there's a negligible difference in cost between pull-outs and drawers.


    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 10:54AM
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Montalvo is right about "replacing two simple motions with one." In fact, this is one of the basics of good design. Another thing I remember reading is that when you nest items such as bowls, you should only nest as many as you can remove in one easy motion. As an example, if you nest 4-5 heavy mixing bowls, you may need to drag the entire bunch out to your counter to get to one of them, whereas if you only nest 2, you can get either one easily.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 11:10AM
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I was told pull out height is adjustable. Drawers are not. Two motions are worth the flexibility for me; I change things quite often.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 11:16AM
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Yes, Bob and nuccia, as I said, "If you can't have drawers..." which means drawers are even better in many situations. I recently had a nice, wide bank of drawers built, which I love. But in my existing cabinets, the pull outs are fantastic, super easy, and save my body from unnecessary strain and pain.

Also, I personally prefer the look of the mix...both drawers and regular cabs...more varried and interesting imo. I'm not putting having all drawers down....I just like the look of both together better. Even if I were building from scratch, I would include more drawers, but would want cabinets with pull outs too. They are great and look nice.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 11:32AM
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We've had a Frigidaire DF slide in for about 5 years now, and we like it. The top is black, so it is relatively difficult to keep spotless, but the grates and surfaces have held up really well. Plus, with the warming drawer it is certainly versatile.

Having said that, in retrospect, I'd prefer having a range top/cooktop and double wall ovens. This is only based on how our usage has been over these last 5 years and not an idictment of the Frigidaire.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 11:57AM
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cotehele, I'm unaware of any pull-outs that are "adjustable". Perhaps what you're referring to is that you can unscrew the pull-out tracks and re-mount them at higher or lower levels. While that may sound equivalent to "adjustable", it's unlikely that most folks would invest the time and labor to do that each time they've bought a new kitchen gadget. Instead, they'll simply re-jigger their storage plan to fit the existing configuration or purchase add-ons which provide a second level within an existing other words, the same thing you'd do if you had drawers.

jessie12's point about aesthetics is valid. Taste is taste and if you like the look of cabinet doors, then that's what you should get.


    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 1:01PM
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Absolutely do not recommend stainless steel counters or anywhere horizontal 'cause it scratches so easily. Love over the range microwave/fan combo for smallish kitchens as well as hanging pots and pans on a frame over an island. So great for frequent use items! One last clutter-buster is a 'knife rack' for kitchen knives which fits on the INSIDE panel of a lower kitchen cabinet door which was recommended by a friend. What a space-saver(and safer too) and so simple; I've been able to get rid of my knife-block which was sitting on my counter forever. I got mine really fast from

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 1:43PM
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whooooooosh, Thanks for the follow-up on the Hafele towel rack. After looking at the PDF detailed specifications (linked below), I realize that the 2 bars didn't slide off their track, but must have pulled loose from the "traveling mechanism". Could you not glue them back in? The other problem you had with the rack not gliding smoothly may be the result of the short length (3-4"?) of the sliding mechanism. Other cheaper brands seem to have a longer bar (which also prevents them from extending as far as the Hafele. Did you contact Hafele Customer Service - there tel # is in the link below.

Did you see the post on 4-29 from billip who recommended the
Ikea Towel Rail
, and said it worked fine?

Its hard to believe that the $10 Ikea works better than the $60-$72 Hafele!

Here is a link that might be useful: Hafele Towel Rack Specifications

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 3:52PM
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If I could change something I would probably have a KA DW drawer on each side of the sink instead of the two stacked like I currently have. I tend to not use the bottom one and then curse because I can't fit everything in the top one. My VAH is a little louder than I expected, too, but after 18 mos. I'm about over it.

As for cleaning the Wolf, maybe try avoiding the mess in the first place. I rarely use more than two burners at a time so I cover any areas that might get dirty with a dish towel. I'm careful to keep it away from those blazing flames. Afterward I just toss the towel in the laundry basket that holds the other soiled towels.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 4:42PM
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savvy50: "Absolutely do not recommend stainless steel counters or anywhere horizontal 'cause it scratches so easily."
Could you elaborate more on this? Do you have stainless steel counters?
I'm so set on getting stainless steel counters for so many reasons:
- seamless sink
- seamless backsplash
- resists heat/damage

I'm thinking of getting stainless steel that is already BRUSHED so that when I add more scratches to it, you won't know because all the scratches will blend in.

thanks for your help.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 4:46PM
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huango, I do not have, or have ever had stainless counters, because I was told they are very noisy. I don't know if you can muffle them somehow--perhaps savvy50 knows.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 5:17PM
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nuccia: okay, that's one I haven't heard of. hmmm...what do you mean by noisy? When you put down a plate, or when you bang on it? oh, maybe when you slide things across the counter? Right now I have 2 toddlers, who will grow up to be teenagers (who brings home teenage friends with them): will I even notice the noise?
I did think it was rather loud when I smashed the garlic (on Corian counters) this morning. Would it be much louder than that?

I've worked many years in my parents' restaurant which had stainless steel counters everywhere. I don't remember hearing noise...

Appreciate any more info you can share.
thank you.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 5:50PM
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As I said huango, I do not have first hand experience with this, but I remember reading this from one of the many kitchen design books I consulted. I imagined it akin to the sound made when you bang a pot with a metal utensil.

You obviously have first hand experience with stainless counters and have been pleased. I'd look at your parents' restaurant counters closely and try to figure out what gauge of stainless was used as well as the material used as a base for the platform. I'm sure some materials would have better sound dampening properties than others. Also, if the stainless was wrapped around a frame without a solid core, I could definitely see how any noise would resonate loudly.

Scratches are unavoidable, though. Again, I'd look at your parents' counters and make the determination as to how that specific "patina" would look in your kitchen.

Good Luck!

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 6:28PM
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Savvy50 - My apologies in advance if I offend you, but are you connected with

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 6:30PM
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We love our stainless steel counters! Yes, they show scratches, but we never have to worry about putting hot pans on them. The stainless is in the "working" part of our kitchen: hot & cleanup zones. We put granite on our island.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 6:42PM
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We also LOVE our stainless counters. We expected them to scratch, so just laughed when we got the first one in short order after installing them. In a past thread about stainless counters, people said they actually look best after they are all scratched, and the patina results in kind of a glowing, soft sheen, rather than the more shiny surface (even for satin finish ones) they start with...The scratches eventually all blend together.

Ours are not noisy. They are wrapped over/around 3 layers of particle board, so it's not like they're hollow...I don't know how everyone's are done, of course. It's been different to get used to the idea that we can just plop hot pans on them, but it's great!

Boy, I appreciate the suggestion, but I could/would never teach my kids to put towels anywhere near my Wolf rangetop...and when I'm cooking for 10 and have cooking helpers, it's rarely possible to save any parts of it from mess, since so many of the 8 burners are in use. It'll just have to look well-used and messy, and I'll have to do the best I can to scrub it. It looks great from a distance (thank goodness), just not so much when you're looking right into it.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 7:47PM
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Can't deal with double-handle faucets - the process of getting the temperature correct and the water pressure by futzing with 2 separate knobs drives me wacky. I know some people love the look - but NOT for me.

Also, don't like tile in the kitchen - it killed my back.

Wouldn't recommend base cabinets with fixes shelves - pullouts or drawers are so much better.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 9:57PM
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Yes, shelves that can be repositioned is exactly what I had in mind. I am the kind of person who would reposition the shelves rather than buying a second level add-on. I know I am going against the prevailing trend, but drawers just don't have much appeal.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 10:36PM
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Rhome410...why are you cleaning up?!! :-)
With 8 children I'd think one of them would be cleaning up! I'm the oldest of 6 and when I was growing up we kids rotated having dish duty for a week each. My mom did all the cooking until she started working outside the home when I was in 6th grade or so (my youngest sister was in Kindergarten). Come to think of it, most of the chores were done by us kids...they were broken down into 6 sets of chores & we each had a particular chore set for a week. of the advantages of drawers, IMHO, is that they have higher sides that help keep things from falling off when pulling them out. However, to each his own! We have almost all drawer bases in our new kitchen with the exception of the "Pet Center" that has 2 FE pullouts + drawer--we'll be removing the pullouts (was supposed to be full-height/no shelves or drawer, but KD ordered incorrectly), sink bases, and two 6" filler pullouts. I do think Jessie21 has a point though...I think the two pullouts flanking our cooktop do look better than if I had had all drawers on that side. (The other side is broken up w/DW, sink base, & trash pullout)

Things I do not recommend:

  • regular shelves (adjustable or not!) in base cabinets (obvious, I know!)

  • shallow cabinet above refrigerator...even if you have to pull a 12" deep one out to make it flush w/your refrigerator, do it!

  • not having a utility cabinet for broom/mop/dustpan/etc. We tried to fit one in, but couldn't so now I'm trying to figure out how best to put them in our step-in pantry. We had them in our previous pantry but they were always in the way. I'm trying to figure out a better method for handling them this time other than just mounting them on the wall next to the shelves or on the door (our door has a frosted glass inset so there's no place to hang them there.)

    Bookmark   May 3, 2008 at 4:58AM
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Buehl :-) ...I honestly don't do much cleanup in the kitchen, except 'catch-up' when things get bad around the edges (you know, the things kids never see)...But I have taken on the rangetop while we are all getting used to it. 3 reasons for that:
1) It's kind of like when you get a new car and want to baby it yourself for awhile ;-)

2) I don't think my 11 and under dish-doers are up to the task with the heavy grates and getting out the underpans. The oldest 2 have school and full-time jobs, the younger teens are in spring sports right now and aren't around on a consistent basis...Our busy time of year. They each get to choose one sport, and they all seem to be in the spring!

And #3, which is the biggest reason: I want to learn how to do it best and most efficiently myself, so then I can show them. Our whole kitchen is different than any we've ever had, with plenty of jobs for everyone, so I didn't dump the rangetop and its particular challenges on top of it all. We're still working out the cleaning assignments and schedule just for the 'normal' stuff. Next year at this time, I expect it will be a whole different story, and we will have an established cleanup routine that also handles the stove. I hope, anyway!

    Bookmark   May 3, 2008 at 1:32PM
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I hate big, deep microwaves, especially when they're installed with ugly trim kits. A mid-size micro that's only about 12" deep is fine. It does popcorn, heats water, melts butter, warms a plate. What else do you need a microwave to do?

    Bookmark   May 3, 2008 at 2:50PM
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Tile countertops.

I think I was happier the day the sledgehammer hit those 4" tiles than any other day in the remodel process, including the day it was done. Those grout lines were evil.

You could probably be happy with 24" tiles for counters, but anything smaller than that is NOT worth the savings.

    Bookmark   May 3, 2008 at 3:01PM
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Nappa and Billip

Thanks so much for your postings and findings. I'm going to try the Ikea. Nappa, I think you may have something regarding the mechanism. I didn't want to mess with glue and yest I contacted Customer Service... they just arranged pick-up... they didn't seem to know anything about the product!

    Bookmark   May 5, 2008 at 1:34PM
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Things I dislike in my kitchen:

white linoleum; changed to hardwood
Loud dishwasher

    Bookmark   May 6, 2008 at 1:19AM
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I've done 2 kitchen remodels in 3 years. (Some people golf, some people read.......)

Things I *hated* about my last kitchen:

-Drawers instead of pull-outs. I know everyone says they're better b/c of the one motion thing, but I had both drawers and pull outs behind doors, and I hated the drawers. With pull outs, you have a shallow base or tray that things sit on. So if you have big bulky items, the items can sit on the pullout tray bottom, but the handles, lids, etc can overhang into the dead space on the sides of the pullout (inside the cabinet). With drawers, the sides of the drawers go all the way to the top, so everything is confined. I put drawers in my last kitchen based *solely* upon reading these boards. It was one of the worst decisions I made. That "dead space" within a pullout cabinet is great for large bulky items, and it makes it to where things don't have to be arranged just so to fit within the drawer.

-pull out trash I got rid of my compactor and did 2 pull out trash cans instead. Big mistake. I missed my compactor instantly.

-Smooth top downdraft range. When we moved that range was "like new". Because I hated it, and never used it.

-Open kitchen. I know I'm a minority, but I hated it. We specifically opened the kitchen in the remodel. We started the remodel when the kids were younger, and finished as they started getting older and having later and sporadic schedules. There was nothing worse than DH and I trying to sit down and quietly watch Seinfeld and having a group of sweaty, hungry loud kids come home from practice and want to fix themselves a snack. The ice maker, the microwave, trash cabinet opening and closing, etc. I couldn't wait to get rid of that dang open kitchen!

    Bookmark   May 6, 2008 at 7:49AM
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Reno fan- that is funny that you mention disliking the open floor plan. We have it (at least re the kitchen and family room)... I don't really mind it, but DH is always talking about the NEXT house NOT having that. It's true, when you are trying to sit and eat and the tv is blaring or you are trying to watch tv and the conversations in the kitchen interfere.
I know most people prefer it, and does look nice, but it doesnt necessarily work great for us either.

    Bookmark   May 6, 2008 at 8:38AM
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You're very welcome. I just have to add, instead of wondering how a $10 thing could be as good as a $60 thing, my thought was why would a simple sliding towel rack even need to be $65?? $10 seems to be all that it's worth, and a fair price, like most Ikea stuff. I assure you, the Ikea product works perfectly well, going on about 8 months now.


    Bookmark   May 6, 2008 at 1:30PM
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