attn: Jakuvall or anyone- Please help, inset drawer framing ?

deedlesApril 11, 2013

Hoping someone knows the answer to this. I have read the 'everything you want to know about drawers' thread a couple times and mucho internet searching, but still have some questions that I hope someone can answer for me.

I'm strongly considering going with the Amish folks that made Badgergals cabs, but alas, no frameless= loss of space. I was thinking that as long as I'd be going framed, I might as well go inset which I love the look of, but: how can inset be tweaked to get as much space as possible?

Can anyone advise if my thoughts are correct/incorrect?

1. Either drop the toekick to 3" high (or no toekick?) allowing for more vertical room. Would this offset the height lost to the undermount glides?

2. Lose the intermediate rails, except for the one under the top drawer. Guessing this would mean that all top drawers would be the same height or look wonky?

3.Ask the cab maker to shave the frame frame down to... what? The cabs I have now have 2" face frames! My 17" wide cab has 12" usable drawer space. I think that is crappy, so how small or narrow I guess is the right word can the face frame pieces be and still be strong and not look toothpicky?

4. Would it be better to have lower (or no) toekicks and the corresponding deeper drawer height or have standard tk's and get tk drawers? I can think of one perfect use for a tk drawer but if I could drop all the tk's and get more depth on each base, that might offset the one perfect use for one tk drawer.

Am I trying to get 10# out of a 5# bag here or is it possible to squeeze a bit more out of inset? Is there another way that I haven't thought of?

final question: would framed full overlay help with gaining inches vs. inset or is that nonsense?

The 8 base cabs save for three will be drawers so I really need to get every inch that I can. Sizes are: 37, 18, 36 LS, 18, 30 (sink), 24 (top is DWD, bottom will be whatever is left over for a drawer) and a 30". Drawer heights/config TBD.

I'll also have a 27" w x 15 d base cab with doors for appliances and a 60" x 12" x 84" pantry for food and other storage. Plus mondo open shelves and two uppers.

I am still going to get an estimate from Shiloh on frameless but my gut tells me that the Amish place will be significantly less $$ which does matter at some price point that I haven't figured out yet. 1k might not matter, 3k probably will.

Drawers are giving me a headache so I'd really appreciate any help, advice, etc. Thank you.

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live_wire_oak

Do inset uppers, and then do framed for the lowers with a 3/4" face frame. It's the same effect as frameless as far as availability of volume for the drawers. That will give you the look of inset where you see it the most (the uppers) but give you the storage of frameless.

Or just find a good quality frameless line and enjoy the much higher quality finishes and better all around storage that they can provide for you. No shop finish will ever stand up like a factory finish will do.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 2:15PM
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jakuvall

I rarely drop toe below 4", looks better, works better, allows for toe drawer here and there (one or two after that the bang for the buck goes- if you think you need more than then move or throw stuff out:)

Almost always delete intermediate rail- yes top drawers all the same height (except for 2 drawer cabs) but I do that anyway. Gains vertical clearance and I like the look.

Rails and stiles- 1-1/2". They can be shortened BUT: I rarely do, usually for a specific reason on a single cabinet, and then only if the cabinets are at the very least dowel frame construction NEVER on pocket hole frames.
Most often I do this on overlays though so it doesn't show, and watch out for counter support and span length. IOW don't go under 1-1/2"
Edited to add- can make both rails and stiles narrow if your using 1" frames that are M & T but doesn't sound like your budget.

Combining inset cabinets and using a 1-1/2"intermediate stile makes up in part for the frame.
Combine a 15 and a 30 that way and it becomes 43 1/2" On frameless you lose 1-1/2" per cabinet- framed you lose 3 in width; combine 4 cabinets and you lose 7 1/2 instead of 12.
You have to specify openings.
With doweled or mortise and tenon cabinets I've combined as much as 114" to make a single cabinet- pocket holes stay below 84"

Tip if you can get it to look right a 2 drawer for pot and pan with an internal roll out in one drawer helps.

I almost never order extra depth bases to get extra depth in the drawers- maybe one a kitchen- waste of money IMO. (again throw stuff out or pay more attention to internal organization)

Overlay gain nothing over insets when framed- combining doesn't work as well with overlay.

This post was edited by jakuvall on Thu, Apr 11, 13 at 14:47

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 2:25PM
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deedles

live wire oak: If I go with the Amish guys, frameless isn't an option. Will all depend on the estimate, all other things being the same. I saw some 13 year old cabs that the same guys made for a co-worker of mine and thought the finish looked really nice.
jakuvall: thanks for the input. Combining the frames between two cabs sounds like a good idea. I'll ask them if they'll do that.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 9:47PM
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