Please Help-Cambria Torquay Installation Disaster

Nicoleb1386April 10, 2013

I am new here, but have been following for a while. A little background, my husband and I are both in our mid 20s and we purchased a fixer-upper 3 years ago. We are not those young people that wanted to rip out a perfectly good kitchen. We inherited all original counters and cabinets in this home dating back to 1961. My husband is skilled and has done many DIY projects, but we knew that kitchen counters were not something we would DIY, although we considered butcher block, we really wanted to save for something amazing. I, like many others have been dreaming of marble but for certain reasons we avoided (etching, etc…) so after lurking on this forum I began to fall in love with Cambria Torquay, and even more recently some of the new Caesarstones. We finally had enough money saved to pay for our new counters, and my husband will be building shaker doors which we will paint. The cabinet bones were solid, and like I said we are DIYers. The counters were at the end of life as everything I put on them was absorbed, think wonder bread logo etched in your blue star formica. It was bad.
3 years ago we had a kitchen company that we knew a few people to use come to our home to provide an estimate so we would have an idea how much Cambria Quartz would cost, so we would know how much to save. Fast forward to a month ago we got a quote for the 2 new Caesarstones and Cambria Torquay. Cambria came in at right around 100/ft. and was the cheapest albeit very expensive including a free sink. We shopped around and ended up going with the initial company that came to us 3 years ago.
Here’s where it gets gritty. He allows us to pick our free under mount sink, we had about 20 choices, and he recommended a 60/40 split. Sounds good to me, I know people with that style and since a farm sink would have been very costly it was a good option, being free. The Rep tells us we can go out to Home Depot or Lowes or wherever and choose ANY faucet we desire, but that it is imperative we have it with us when the templator comes out to template. So I knew the style I was going for and wanted a faucet that looked old fashion/French country and chose a lovely 3 stem faucet online, and we would also have a hot water spout. When the Fabricator called to set up the apt. to template we told them we were awaiting our faucet’s arrival, and we better set the apt. at least a week out since our Kitchen Rep told us the templator would need to see it.
The Fabricator Office Manager tells us that as long as we have a model number and it is nothing exotic, they can look it up and we don’t need to have it in person. Great, so we set the apt for that week. The Templator arrives and I immediately offer him the model number and information for our faucet and hot water spot, I had it brought up on my smart phone as I spoke. He said he did not need the information and explained to me that the installers would drill the holes on the spot and I could just tell them when they arrive how many holes I needed. I told him I would need 4 because my faucet would use 3, and my hot water spout would use 1. He reiterated that he did not need that information, and went into further detail about how easy it is for them to drill the holes, etc… He had also told me had been working for the company for 15 years, so I assumed he of all people would know, and I didn’t think again.
Yesterday. Oh boy, here we go. The installers admitted they forgot about my apt, and someone had to meet them on the side of the interstate to drop off our pieces. Fine, whatever, glad I called to ask for a window as to when to expect (we have a 2 year old and I wanted an idea). They rip out my formica and exclaim how horrible my old plumbing is and my husband better prepare to pay a plumber. They were already cursing under their breaths as they ripped out the sink.
Then they go to prepare to drill the holes and I present my faucet and hot water spout. They go outside, come back in 20 minutes later and call to me there is a problem. I can’t have my faucet with a 60/40 sink, it won’t line up centered, I can only have a one hole faucet. I started to get very upset this was my whole design plan, I didn’t want a one stem faucet. I will not go into the nitty gritty details, but they sat on my porch and chain smoked while I fought with my kitchen rep and the Fabricator Manager back and forth for 2 hours. Then my husband also called them from work, and this went around and around, and basically the 2 Men decided not to take responsibility and blame me, that I didn’t do my homework. I was FLABERGASTED. Never in my life had I been belittled like the way I was by these men. The installers told me to give up because their boss NEVER loses a fight. So now I have paid ½ upfront and my choice is they leave and I lose the other ½ and have no counters because they ruined my formica, or I install it and they offer my a free faucet for the confusion. I wanted to scream. My husband and I were at a loss, my two year old is starving and it’s 7 at night. We didn’t know what to do, so we let them install them.
Well apparently they measured something wrong and began to chisel away at my wall, which they claimed is normal, I don’t know is it? And in the process they must have chipped my new counters, because when they ran out the door and my counters were covered in dust and I went to clean them I saw the 2 tiny chips.

So Now I need help. If you made it this far, seriously you are a saint, and I really appreciate advice because as I said my husband and I are young and we don’t have anyone to go to. At this point our idea is to withhold the remaining 50 percent until they replace the counters or do something. They are ignoring our calls and emails at this point, and we have not been able to make contact. My husband saw their vehicles in the parking lot of the kitchen shop but decided not to go it because we wanted contact to be documented from here on out. I am scared if we withhold payment ($1700) they can put a lien on our house, but we can’t see paying for damaged and unwanted goods. Also the chips are not on the edges they are on the middle to back of the counters where they were removing my wall, and we got eased edges specifically because of what we read about chips, so I know this is not normal. Please Help, thank you in advance.
Please know I have signed nothing, and have documented pictures, and we have already submitted a letter to the Better Business Bureau. I did not sign off on the counters, and we have put a stop payment on our debit card in the event they decide to pull the remaining portion. Also since it is over $1700, we assume this would be a case for small claims court? Should I call Cambria? What do you do when your Middle Man lets you down?

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I also want to add that the owner of the Fabrication company said that "they don't deal with faucets and that they would have never asked me for a model number since that is not their business" that is the customer's job, and I didn't do my homework, I chose a sink that did not work with a faucet I chose. To make it very clear what he specifically said to me. My Kitchen Rep's position was "I don't know why it won't work and I don't know what to say" and he just played dumb, and wouldn't answer any questions directly.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 12:16PM
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So sorry about what you are going through. All I can offer is that we also had Cambria installed. They had to cut out about 12 in from one side of the wall to the corner to install ours. They also had to cut a portion of the wall to the corner for our vanities too. I guess not all walls are perfectly straight!?

And we also had a chip on the back of ours too, about an inch long and 1/8 wide. I didn't notice it before they left. But our backsplash covered it. And this wasn't in the area that they had to cut the wall. They should be able to fill it if you won't be having a backsplash.

I wish you luck resolving this terrible ordeal.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 12:55PM
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Thank you for your reply, I suspected our walls were not even, but I do think because of the situation they might have been in a bit of a hurry to leave my house. The one installer kept saying he couldn't wait to get home to a beer, awesome. The other installer said he felt horrible for me and he agreed it was a mess. He mentioned that his old company he worked for in NJ would have never treated a customer this way. (I am in Florida)

The one chip will possibly be covered by a bp as it is closer to the wall, the other is about an inch above the edge (as in the front of the counter) so it is noticeable to me. If I would have done it, hey life happens, but to have something brand new with chips is not acceptable to me. I guess I came here to find out if we are justified in expecting perfection with our brand new Quartz, or if we had too high of expectations for being "hand held" and told what would and would not work from our "middle man." I think I thought we could have gone straight to a Fabrication Company I could have cut costs but I wanted a Middle Man to protect me. Perhaps they could fill it but since they are not returning our calls I don't think I should hold my breath. Now what to do about the remaining balance? Thank you all again.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 2:10PM
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That sounds just terrible. I would hope that the company would come and take a look at the area. I am no expert so I don't have any great advice for you. I would suggest that you take a picture to post here so that the 'experts' could better guide you on what you should do next. I truly hope it all works out for you.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 3:26PM
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Kristen Hallock

When I had my Cambria installed 8 years ago in my last house, they took my faucet with them when they came to template. They did not drill the faucet holes on site.

I guess it seems that you should have looked into the sink/faucet thing on your own, but at the same time why did they push your toward a 60/40 split sink and then not give you any guidelines on what faucet would work best?

I would absolutely want the chips fixed. Especially the one that you say is towards the front of the counter. I dont know if they can fix them so if they cant they should re-install it.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 3:59PM
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If you are expecting perfection, then yes, you are expecting too much. Many counters have chips in them that have already been filled at the shop, and you never ever notice or know the difference. A filled chip isn't a big deal. Neither is a bit of wall chiseling, especially if you are going to be doing a backsplash. Those are all easy things that wouldn't have even been a problem for you to deal with if the guys had been more professional and done a better job of communicating with you on the front end.

As far as the split sink and the faucet that you chose, there is no reason that the faucet has to be centered. It's NOT going to be centered with a sink choice like that. And, that's OK. You just have to figure out how you want the holes to line up. If the larger bowl goes all the way to the back of the cabinet, the only possible position for all of the "stuff" is behind the smaller bowl. Go online and download a pic of the sink that you chose and do the same with the faucet. Print it out and fiddle with it. Once you have things laid out how you like them, then you can call the owner of the shop to come back out and do the holes and fix the chip at the same time. And you can register your displeasure at the attitudes of the guys who did the installing.

In the meantime, go have a glass of wine and take a walk. Cool down. The problems are real, but they aren't as large as they are in your mind at the moment. Once you get through the initial anger and your emotions settle, you'll be able to deal with all of this much better.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 4:10PM
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Thank you all so much for the replies, as soon as I get a chance to post some pictures I definitely will do so. Just as a follow-up it is now almost closing time here for our Kitchen Company and I assume the Fabricator as well, and we have heard nothing. We have received no response to email or phone calls. Every time we called in the past we were phoned back within the hour, so I really think they are avoiding us.

I really wish I would have researched the sink situation more but I did say "Can I pick anything I want?" and the Rep said "Of course, but I rec. a delta faucet with a magnet since they hold up so well" Well I told him that I had a specific style in mind to which I was told that was fine, just make sure I have it for the template. Now if they would have said to me you can only do that faucet with a 50/50 and explained why I would have chose that sink in a second or I would have forked out the money for the farm sink or something, but I would not have sacrificed the faucet. Also when I found the faucet I liked online I called to ask my kitchen Rep if extra holes would cost extra money, because I saw someone in an old thread on here mention that as a hidden cost. So after thinking this over I mentioned my faucet style and configuration multiple times and was never given a second look.

I am scared at this point they are walking away from me but my husband thinks that we at least have the ball in our court because at least we have a counter and haven't paid in full, as opposed to if we would have let them leave yesterday and we would have had nothing.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 4:23PM
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Have they returned your calls yet? What a mess. Hopefully you can get this sorted out but I wouldn't make the final payment until I was happy.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 4:28PM
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Thank you Live Wire Oak, I appreciate that I do understand these are "first world problems" if you will. I think I am so upset because my expectations were so high. I didn't even know until today that the chips could be filled easily. You would think they would have called me back and said, ok we can schedule to come fill them? Maybe they will call me tomorrow. I will update everyone once something develops. The chips are definitely not horrific and the counters are light so probably only I would notice.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 4:29PM
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I doubt you did, but if you paid with a credit card, have you contacted them and started a formal complaint?

As l_w_o said, you can have the faucet, but it will be offset. That's ok, that's what happens with 60/40 sinks when multiple holes are involved.

Here's a crazy question (I may have missed it in your story), but can you go back and choose a sink exactly the same dimensions but a single bowl? Maybe that would take care of it.

Of course, none of these are real options if they won't answer your calls. Looks like you and your dh are going to be making a surprise visit to the shop. ;-)

Good luck. I hate scummy people. Sorry this is happening to you.


    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 4:39PM
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Holly- Kay

Oh my heavens. I am so sorry to hear this nightmare. The BBB will really lean on this company to make things right. With that being said they may not care what the BBB has to say in regards to this issue. Did you check to see if there are any negative reports registered with the BBB against this company?

It is too bad that you didn't put the whole thing on a credit card because you could have filed a complaint with them. I know that is an amount that you wouldn't necessarily want on your cc but you would have paid the amount off upon acceptable installation of your counters.

I sure hope that you get this resolved. I own a business and if I had employees like those installers they wouldn't be in my employ!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 4:46PM
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I don't think Cambria would be happy with this level of communication. They (or so I've heard) hold their fabricators' feet to the fire. You are not allowed (or so I've heard) to install Cambria without Cambria's training.

Yes, these are first world problems. Yes, chips happen and they can be fixed. Yes, this will all look less dire in the morning. But these folks don't seem to have a design and installation system that meets Cambria's standards. To not get clear instructions--or even a consistent story--on your sink and faucet configurations early in the process smacks of jackleg-itis. Very sorry.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 5:46PM
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I didn't mention above that one of my vanity tops came with a crack along the front edge that I didn't notice until that night. Who knows when it happened, somewhere from the time it was fabricated to during initial delivery to the kitchen store or to my house. I actually didn't even inspect it when my kitchen guy put it in (the fabrication place didn't install the vanity tops because I wanted my kitchen guy to do the faucets also). That was the last thing to be done weeks after my kitchen was completed. And it was a remnant piece so I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get the same one or if I'd have to pick out a new one. It did take a few days if not a week to hear back from the fab place. They did end up ordering a new slab and replacing it. You may be lucky and they might just be trying to figure out what to do. I'll tell you, at the time it seems like the worst thing, but once your kitchen is done and hopefully they will do the right thing, you'll forget all about it.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 5:53PM
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Make sure you document EVERYTHING. Take photos of the chips. Write a thorough timeline - keep it factual.

This means when you talk to the owner, you have a notepad with you and are writing things down as you two speak. And you go over important points to ensure clarification.

And you also inform them, very politely in a nice tone of voice, that you will be writing a letter to Cambria USA to alert them that there was a troublesome breakdown in communication between you the customer and the factory-authorized installers, because this is preventing you from being a 100% satisfied customer of Cambria's product.

It's a good lesson in not believing everything a rep tells you (often they're just salespeople) and getting everything in writing. It's okay, it's happened to just about everybody at some point.

The other lesson in remodeling is that much as we obsess about materials, installation is much more crucial and expensive to fix if something doesn't go right.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 6:15PM
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Phone number


Here is a link that might be useful: Cambria Customer Service

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 6:16PM
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Thank you all for your time. To answer a few questions...We don't use credit cards, we pay cash for everything so we paid the first half on our debit card, and today my husband called and cancelled our debit card after he spoke with the rep at BB&T. She advised that would be best in case they charge it again it could be messy to dispute.
From looking at the BBB they had two complaints filed that both show to be resolved and closed, so I can't see what they were for.
To answer the question about whether or not we have made contact, we still have not. My husband tried to call them again 20 minutes before they close and they did not pick up. Because we both work and have had to call/visit a couple of times at the end of the day we know they stay until at least 5 if not later, so we assume they are still ignoring us. We also received an automated email receipt that they received our email, but there was no response to that or other phone messages as of now. Perhaps tomorrow?
As far as the sink goes I was told there was nothing that could be done, that I should have chose a 50/50 sink. I will post pictures as soon as possible and perhaps someone can weigh in.
The chips are small but were the frosting on the cake. I am sure when I post pictures you all might think I am being silly.

Ultimately I am most upset by my Kitchen Rep because he should have stood up for us to help resolve this. There is no reason why I should have had to be begging for a resolution with these fabricators.

To the person who suggested I have a drink, I would love to but we just found out we are expecting our second child :) I need to remain calm :)

Hopefully uploading the pictures soon they are loading!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 6:17PM
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Who is your contract with? Is it with the kitchen company or the fabricator?

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 6:31PM
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A bit off topic, but debit cards are a VERY bad idea. Unless you really can't control your spending, credit cards provide much more protection in situations like this. With a credit card, you haven't paid out any money until you pay the bill and even then you can dispute the charge. With a debit card, as you're aware, they take the money up front out of your account and you have to fight to get it back. The laws on debit cards have changed over the years and you do have more consumer protection than you used to - you can dispute charges but they still have your money until the dispute is resolved. I've never had a debit card - I insist that my ATM card from bank does not have debit card capability. I always use credit cards and pay them off in full every month.,

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 6:42PM
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Something that many people don't know is that if you lose your debit card or it is stolen, the person who has the card can use it WITHOUT a pin. When you use a debit card, you have the option of "debit" or "credit" and if you choose credit, no pin is required and the money comes right out of your account.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 6:45PM
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My debit card is only a debit card. It cannot be used as a credit card, and must be used with a PIN.


    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 6:55PM
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I will consider that for the future. I got into credit card debt in college, small but still, and so after I got it taken care of and read Dave Ramsey's books I vowed not to get one for many years until I was confident in myself. My husband never had taken one out when we met and so we kind of just never took one. I have considered them on occasion to earn rewards and such but never for protection, but now you have shed light on the situation. To be honest I don't know if I trust my self. We live debt free (except our Mortgage) but if I told you that I never considered getting one to do this kitchen many times, I would be a liar. Many times we thought about replacing our Refrigerator, it is missing drawers and is just all around hanging on by a string, and if I had a Credit Card I know I would have replaced it the day we moved in but three years later it is still running. We will be replacing it soon though and I will feel good about it because I know I ran it into the ground and saved for it. Alot of people our age are very entitled and think they deserve Stainless because their white appliances are just horrid. We are just blessed they work :) So for now I think I will risk the fraud against myself but I can see where the protection could really be beneficial. Question though if I put the half on my card and my counters were installed after I got my C.C. bill and paid it on time would it be better than on my debit card?
Here is a picture of the faucet I chose and the sink, you can see the one hole they drilled, and the one on the left is for my hot water spout. They said this faucet would only work if they put it on the left side (smaller side of the sink)

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:17PM
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Here is a picture of the chip closest to the front of the counters, ignore the coloring, I had to turn off the flash and I am not good with photography but this gives you an idea.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:20PM
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If you put a charge on your credit card you have so many days to dispute the charge (at least 30, but it may be more) whether or not you've already paid the bill.

I understand that many people are not disciplined, buy things they cannot afford and run up huge debt. I almost always pay by credit card- I've actually been burned a few times in the past when paying cash or check, so I really prefer the protection afforded by credit cards.

The other advantage of using credit cards is that you build up a credit rating which will help you when you really do need to take out a loan, like for a mortgage.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:28PM
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So why not get a new faucet that will fit?

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:30PM
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Holly- Kay

Nicole, I am so proud of you for your commitment to paying cash! I love Dave Ramsey. I have lived basically debt free for close to 20 years. It is one of the reasons we can now do a total kitchen renovation and pay cash for it and not have to budget. It is wonderful that you got on the band wagon of debt free living at such a young age. I do have a few credit cards but pay the balance in full each month. If you know you wouldn't be tempted to overspend a cc is good protection for cases such as what you are dealing with now.

Dave's words of "live like no one else now, so you can live like no one else in the future" is good advice. Keep up the good work! We have three homes now and bought them all paid in full!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:40PM
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Ahh yes, I have heard that it helps for loans and such but luckily because we have had history from car loans, cell phone bills, rental history we had no issues with getting a mortgage. We were approved for far more than we could afford (suprise :)) and we only applied with my husband's income in case I decide to Stay Home Full Time with the children at some point :). Since we live debt free and have a large e-fund as well as 2 paid off cars that both have a large amount of equity in them (if that's even possible but we do :)) it has never been an issue. We feel confident we can handle most "emergencies" and so far we have! I do see the protection benefit though and is something to consider! Thank you. Yes we likely will be just getting a one stem faucet, despite this one making my hear sing as I have heard yall put it :)

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:40PM
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going with Karen's suggestion...

Here is a Moen, 3 separate pieces, don't use the spray

Here is a link that might be useful: Moen Waterhill

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:41PM
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and another from Danze

Here is a link that might be useful: Danze Opulence

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:42PM
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Amen thank you for the confidence, and yes we love that quote and it is our mantra :) And I have a very retro very blue kitchen and non matching white/bisque appliances, stained terrazzo floors, and I go to bed every night knowing there is no collection agency calling me in the morning. It is truly the best!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:42PM
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I do like both of those but unless I am missing something they would require three holes as well (not including sprayer)

I was told I could only have one hole, so I would need an all in one with the handle on it the faucet. They said a 60/40 sink can only accomodate a one hole faucet with another hole off to the side, for my hot water spout (or I suppose a sprayer or anything else).

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:54PM
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I am a fabricator.

re: the chips. - not a big deal. A competent Cambria installer can repair it so you don't know they're there. If not then you should demand replacements.

re: the faucets: this is often a difficult issue since there are many many sink/faucet combo's that don't work together. Even kitchen designers, who should know better and get paid to know better will sometimes pick a mismatch.

The short answer to your faucet problem is that the fabricator did a poor job and MADE A MISTAKE by not rescheduling the measure to a date when you'd have the faucet. If they are honest they will admit that mistake was the root cause of your problem since anyone familiar with sink and faucet issues would know immediately that the sink/faucet combo you picked wouldn't work together. If the problem had been identified at the measure you could easily have picked a different sink.

An experienced shop should know better and stand behind their work. Good luck with that as they already sound like a schlock operation based on faiilure to communicate.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:58PM
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I think I have been using poor verbage by saying one stem or 3 stem, I apologize I now see where that might have been confusing. I chose something that required 3 holes, and day of install I was told I could only have 1 hole for a faucet, period.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 7:59PM
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I agree with live_wire_oak's words of wisdom. These things can be so upsetting, especially when we're treated unfairly or disrespectfully by unprofessional installers or contractors.

That said, it's great news that the counters can be repaired so easily (I've had chips in granite and now marble that I never actually had repaired--they're a big deal when they first happen, but with time you don't even notice them :)

...and my understanding is that it's not uncommon to have to chisel out a bit of drywall to make a countertop fit. My previous granite was installed that way.

All that said, I'd hold off on paying the second 50% until they fix the chips, as that's your only leverage. They'll be much less inclined to fix them if you no longer owe them money.

Have you looked at the Delta Addison? It's a popular and well-priced single spout/handle in one model:

Here is a link that might be useful: Delta Addison

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 8:06PM
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I can't thank you all enough for your replies, Oldryder that is exactly what I needed to know. I feel confident now in witholding payment until resolution is made. I was really starting to wonder if this was my fault, and how could I have made such a large mistake on something so expensive. I have learned a large lesson about trusting people regardless of how long they have been in an industry and no matter how many multi-million dollar homes are in their portfolio. thank you for your advice on the chips as well, although I am not sure these people are qualified.
Oldryder do you think calling Cambria would be of any importance. I see someone else suggested that, and I was thinking about it myself. Not to help me, or mediate but to report the incidence?

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 8:11PM
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Oldryder-The fabrication owner told me that this was the very first time in 15 years that he ever had a customer choose a sink that did not work with a faucet. I told him I could not possibly believe that and he said believe it or not, he assured me he would bring it up in a staff meeting promptly so that in the rare event that this comes up again they will be prepared. Thank you for assuring me that this guy was a snake and this does happen and not all sinks and faucets work together.

The Delta Addison looks like it might be a good option I have to make a decision soon as I am working out of our bathroom sinks :)

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 8:21PM
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...the Addison comes in a variety of finishes, and also, I believe, Witt the Touch2o (touchless) technology.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 8:25PM
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We did the Danze Opulence in copper in my new showroom in a prep sink display. It's a single hole, plus the spray. Looks like you could use that and add a third hole to the left for the instant hot. We also used the potfiller. Both of them were HEAVY! Good quality.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 8:26PM
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I can't comment on the counter issue beyond what has already been said. I think if they handled things differently you'd be a happy customer, but they chose this path.

We listen to Dave Ramsey too! Great job getting free so early! I do disagree with him about credit cards though, mostly for the reasons above. We pay ours in full each month. Even if you kept one only for major purchases for the added protection, it would be worth it. I have an Amazon points card, and I can use my points during checkout for money off. Free money!

Really think about a credit card for select items. Why not just subtract each purchase out if your check book to "allocate" that money for the bill? Use a pencil or highlight it, then you should be able to add up those entries and match the amount on your bill, plus you already "spent it" in your tally book so it's still in the account waiting to move out, like a check that hasn't yet been cashed.

We're almost debt free, got one car left after paying my huge student loans. But we are not borrowing for the kitchen (other than our normal credit card which will be paid each month). Certainly not a common lifestyle among our age bracket, but you're right, sure does feel good!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 8:36PM
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Live Wire Oak you have a beautiful kitchen, if they ever call me back maybe they can drill another hole and that could be an option for me. I love your faucet.

Williamsem-yes I think some of Dave's stuff is very militant but I think it keeps people out of debt. I think some day when I am confident in myself I might consider, or for situations like this for protection, or points. I work with a woman who is debt free, paid her house off in 5 years and never moved, and she uses c.c.s for everything and has never once paid interest or a late fee. She has been doing this for over 30 years, I don't think I trust myself yet though :) I know I am missing out on benefits but I also know I never pay more than I have. The protection factor is a consideration though...The Amazon points sound awesome!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 9:01PM
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If you're smart enough to know your limits, you are far ahead of many. And you will be able to pick out the time when the benefits will outweight the risks for you. If you understand how to use cc's as a tool and not a magic way to get everything, they will be an asset. And I think you already know most of what you need to to do it right! Stick with what's working for you, and evaluate what you learn from this current mess to see if you need a change.

I hope this gets resolved easily and doesn't end up costing you much. It's still early, there's hope!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 9:16PM
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Ah, the pitfalls of credit cards. What happened to you in college, Nicoleb1386, is the exact reason we made sure our kids were exposed to their usage during high school. It actually worked well, so I'll pass this along. When each child got a driver's license at 16, they also got a AAA card and a credit card (ours, not theirs). The purpose of both cards was to handle emergencies and they knew that anything that appeared on our bill we would know about. They knew that family finances were tight, that the credit card bill was paid in full each month, and they were an active part of the family finances. We also instructed them in how to make purchasing decisions with this in mind. For instance, if our daughter needed back to school clothes, we discussed what she needed, but let her go to the mall and choose what she wanted. I swear she agonized about her purchases more than I would have. They all made good decisions on this sort of purchase and never put us in the position of asking them to return something because it was outside the budget. When they went off to college, the same arrangement worked for books and needed supplies. They learned to consider the big picture and knew that you couldn't spend money you didn't have. It was much better to have almost two years of practice at home with credit before they were on their own at school making the money decisions at the same time they were being called on to make all the other "Mom and Dad aren't here and will never know" decisions. Money management takes practice and is best addressed in the natural course of growing up.

Congrats on the new baby!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 9:29PM
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"Oldryder do you think calling Cambria would be of any importance. I see someone else suggested that, and I was thinking about it myself. Not to help me, or mediate but to report the incidence?"

in my experience contacting cambria regarding an installation issue won't gain you anything except additional frustration. they have been quite responsive on material issues like fading and inclusions popping out but thats little help in your case. If a fabricator gets enough complaints Cambria will decertify him but again no immediate help for you.

I also don't believe 15 years and no faucet/sink issues. It occurs often enough that my shop has very specific procedures to prevent possible problems.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 9:38PM
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Nicoleb, I just finished reading all these posts and I have to say I am impressed by your attitude,your maturity and your good sense. My daughter and her husband are both twenty something and expecting their first child. They bought a house 2 years ago and are struggling because my SIL was layed off last year. He has picked up side jobs here and there and will be starting a new career next month. Like you, they watch their pennies very carefully. They do have a major credit card but pay it off in full each month. They have definitely learned to distinguish between wants and needs. They are also making do with older, "uncool" appliances.
I'm sorry to hear how you were treated by the countertop installers but just know that you are now a stronger, wiser person because of that experience.
All that being said I thought I would offer you one more faucet possibility. My neighbor recently installed the faucet pictured below and it is a nice single hole but more traditional style faucet that is priced below $200 at the big box stores.It is Delta's Leland Faucet. She says that it is a great faucet.
Wishing you a satisfactory solution to your countertop issue.

Here is a link that might be useful: Leland Faucet

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 10:30PM
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I thought the holes were all drilled and your center part of the bridge didn't line up. Sorry, I was trying to find a faucet with 2 handles (3 independent pieces) to fill the existing holes. I have to look closer at the pics. Whoops.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 10:35PM
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Thank you Badgergal, you are very kind. I am sorry to hear about your daughter and son-in-law, I hope things improve for them soon, it is a tough time and we definitely have to count our blessings. I know that chips in my counters are NOTHING in the grande scheme of things.

I am glad to hear a good review of the Leland Faucet, I will definitely consider it once I know if one hole is my final option. I think if we hear nothing tomorrow we will assume they are not planning to take action. I plan to post an update as soon as I have something new to share!

Thank you again Oldryder for your response, this forum is very lucky to have someone like you willing to share information!

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 10:50PM
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A similar thing happened to me when I had my Cambria installed (though it doesn't matter if it's Cambria or granite)... I had originally told them I was going to do a 60/40. Then I went in and told them I decided to do a 50/50. So they came and templated, and i thought it was already in the notes that I was doing a 50/50 (They were providing a "free" sink, so those were my two choices, no need to have sink on site since they had the sinks at the shop).

So the day comes when they install the Cambria, and I see that the sink cut out is for a 60/40. The message never got put in my file from the sales rep to the template guy to the fabricator to the installer. They would have taken it back, but I said, no, that's fine. The sink was no big deal. BUT... turned out the faucet I got (single hole with a separate handle and a separate sprayer) was all I could put in there... I could not use my soap dispenser, as there was no more room and no room behind the large sink. 8 years and one house later, I still have that soap dispenser in the box it came in. It all worked out fine.

While they might have warned you about that, it certainly isn't something that I would have expected them to analyze. In my case, it was a miscommunication, but I was okay with it. Since most faucets used these days are single hole with handle and sprayer all in one, I can see why it wouldn't have dawned on them.

Hard to tell in this picture, but there is definitely no room behind the big sink. It happens. I didn't think of it either.

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 10:53PM
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Just wanted to suggest our single-hole faucet. We wanted a slightly more 'traditional' look that it seems you are also going for. We used Anabelle by Moen.

Here is a link that might be useful: Anabelle

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 11:25PM
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Have you looked at two handle single hole faucets? Some have a look very similar to your dream faucet. You could get the feel you want, move on from this mess, AND have an easier time cleaning :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Two handle single hole faucets

    Bookmark   April 10, 2013 at 11:48PM
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People who are too afraid of credit cards to get one are in my humble opinion making the worst financial decision possible by avoiding them. If you are smart enough to live debt free then you can probably handle having a credit card in your wallet without going on a spending spree.

As has been mentioned credit cards offer consumer protections and help you build a good credit score. Sure your score may be ok as a result of your other loans (student debt, car debt), but one of the factors in a credit score is the variety in kinds of debt you have. Having a credit card that is paid off each month would have raised your score even higher. It isn't whether you got approved for the mortgage in the past or how much you were approved for. The increased credit score as a result of the credit card could have helped you get a lower interest rate which would save you tens of thousands over the life of the mortgage.

I put everything I buy on a credit card and I mean everything, whether it costs $1 or $1000. The key is to know what you are able to afford to purchase in the first place. I monitor my bank accounts and credit card bill religiously and I have good discipline. As a result of my habits I have an incredible credit score, rock bottom interest rates on all my debt, and have traveled the world using the points I have accumulated. Without credit cards none of that would be possible. I think given your discipline you could achieve this too.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 6:59AM
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So sorry to hear. First, everyone who makes a mistake like this says that this is the first time yada yada.

You first need to decide if you want them to try to fix the chips, and if you can live with and love a single faucet. Highly recommend you get one with a sprayer, since you really can't fit a separate sprayer.

then, write the fabricator with your decision. You may get attention if you tell them in writing that you are not sure you will accept the counters as provided and installed but that you will let them know. You have every right to refuse defective product.

You're definitely in small claims category if it gets to that. You would file a claim for your 1700 back plus any cost to have the counters removed and disposed of (but you could probably donate it and pay a small fee to have them picked up - that may be your cheapest means of removal). You would have to advise them first so they can take the counters and sink back and use them elsewhere, in a showroom, as remnant pieces, etc. If they try to place a lien, they have to first win in court I believe, then try to collect and if they cannot, then they can place a lien,

I would advise them at this point that your'e not happy, and that you're considering your options. Perhaps they will buck up and help be part of the solution.

Good luck!

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 7:57AM
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I like the 2 handle single hole faucets thank you for the tip! I am not set on having a sprayer, I have never had one in my life and made it this far, so I could probably get away without it :)

As far as the credit card topic goes, I have never had a situation come up where we were denied something on behalf of our credit or lack thereof.

We have two vehicles that we financed and paid off, one through my credit union who I used several times for cars before trying to be debt free, the other car was dealer financed at a decent rate.

We were offered far more than we could ever afford for a home loan, I guess they figure young people don't save for retirement or buy groceries. Like I said before that didn't even include my income, as we applied only off my husbands.

I have rented cars before, and we have cell phones. All things that people say you need credit cards to do and my only experience with them was horrible as I was not responsible and I assure you they did not help my credit history, and my husband has never once had one. I will say the very first car loan my husband ever had wasn't the best rate, but I don't know that if he had a credit card it would have been much better since he was 18, needed a car and didn't have a credit card before that so it is not like he could have built some long history.

I agree that if you are responsible and pay things off on time or before your introductory rate changes, you can most certainly aquire benefits, but other than points/cash back or protection, which I have yet to need, I have found no need for them.

Now when I rented a car last time they required me to put almost $1000. cash on hold from my checking account, because I didn't have a c.c. and when I told someone that they were shocked, and they said they would not have had $1000 to have locked up on vacation. Well to me if I don't have $1000 cash to have locked for a few days I probably don't need to be going on vacation, know what I mean?

I kind of equate credit cards to being an addict. If you haven't had a drink in 7 years and you quit drinking when you were 16, because your parents shipped you off to rehab you will always wonder if maybe you were a young kid who just took partying to far, and now your older and you can drink socially, but then again if you are indeed an alcoholic than you really can't have that drink. My husband is not even 24 and he celebrated his 7th year of sobriety with AA last month. Similarly I haven't had a credit card for about 9 years, so maybe I am responsible enough but then again maybe I am not. Maybe my husband was just a teenage boy who drank to much. Today we are not ready to chance it :)

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 10:45AM
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You are really missing out. Test out the waters with a credit card with a low limit that way you can't get in too far over your head. Like I said before an improved credit card won't necessarily mean you have a better chance of getting credit (unless your score was abominable before), but it definitely improves your loan terms. I read an articles today about car loan rates. It said that people with poor credit were paying rates of about 9% whereas those with good credit pay 3-4%. Personally my car loan is at 1.99%. Having a good credit score is one of the best assets you can have.

As for not needing the other benefits of a credit card, you don't realize you need consumer protections until a situation like this arises. If you had put the counters on a credit card (with the money for the counters already saved up) you might be a lot less stressed right now because the credit card company would be doing a lot of work for you. Also points and cash back cannot be brushed off so easily. When spending so much on a kitchen you can get hundreds if not thousands back or be able to take a very nice vacation for free.

Just as an aside, many credit cards also increase the warranties on products. This is a very useful benefit when buying appliances!

You seem like a very responsible person. If you can handle being debt free without being tempted then I think you can handle a credit card. If you don't trust yourself then don't keep it in your wallet. Put it in a place where you wont think about it and just use it for big purchases where the protections of a credit card are useful. But only after you have already saved the money!

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 11:29AM
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Circus Peanut

For what it's worth if you really have to find a one-hole faucet, I can highly recommend the Kohler Essex, we loved it so much we're putting in another one. We have a very vintage kitchen and it's got just the right vibe. Check it out?

That said, I don't see why you can't make your chosen faucet work with your sink as long as you understand it will be off-center. I really loathe contractors who insist there is only ONE way to do things -- and belittle you to boot. Curses on them, and stay strong!

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 11:38AM
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I think you have plenty of options for a different faucet and hopefully the chip issue can be resolved. I'd withhold further payment, but put the reason in writing to the company, certified mail.

We were once young and tried to do what we thought was the right thing. We put down a cash deposit on new kitchen flooring after ours was ruined by rain coming under the door. We got the insurance money and figured we should not put it on the cc since we had the cash. All was fine until the company went bankrupt and snuck out in the middle of the night just days before our scheduled install. We believe our new floor was one of those sold out of the the back door to the installers on the cheap. We filed small claims along with other people. We got a judgement, but couldn't get blood from a stone. If we had put it on a credit card we could have gotten our $ back. Lesson learned....never pay deposits or for any work that is to be completed in cash...unless and until it has been completed to your satisfaction.

Also, many credit cards offer double mfg warranty, up to a year, on things you purchase.Wise choice for electronics. AND, it is better protection if you buy online in case you never receive the item. AND if someone gets your cc number they can't drain your bacnk account causing checks to bouncy bouncy bounce. Many good reasons to have a CC for major purchases. Just remember they are not GIFT cards for goodies and you will be fine. Good Luck. I'm sure it will all work out for you .

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 12:01PM
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Update-Rep from Kitchen store calls my husband back to ask how we are enjoying our counters. Pretends he didn't get our messages or emails. Fine. My husband reiterated we are not happy with the faucet situation and there are chips. He tells us we need to talk to the Fabrication Owner. My husband asks him who we are paying, him, or his sub contractor, the fabricator? He says you are paying me. My husband says then my problem is with YOU. You work for me, you call your Fabricator, I have no contract with him and I will not work through him. Kitchen Store Owner says he will have Fabricator call us and hangs up the phone.

Through this whole mess he continued to tell us we needed to talk to the fabricator. He has not helped us at all, and my husband said he thinks the rep is starting to sweat, because we are of the understanding that this fabricator is one of the main ones in a 90 mile radius that is certified to do Cambria, and so he needs the fabricator.

That's where we are at for now...

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 12:18PM
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Wow Cindy, that is really interesting, thanks for the story. I think I am starting to see where if we had put the first half on a Credit Card, I could have rejected the pieces and then disputed the claim and got my money back, whereas we thought we had no choice since we were scared if they left we would be out our first half and our formica, and have to start all over with less money.

I am so glad I came here I have learned alot in the last 2 days. Thank you all so much.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 12:26PM
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First off, I am sorry that your installation went awry. It sounds like you've learned some very painful and valuable lessons in the process; but now you need to make some difficult decisions how best to salvage this less than ideal outcome. Most likely, the chip can be fixed to your satisfaction; these things do happen in installations; unfortunate, but that is life sometimes. You have received some very nice suggestions for single hole faucets to work with your existing sink. While not the look you were dreaming of, do you think you can settle for one of these? At this point, is there anything that the KD/fabricator can do to make it financially worth your while to reach a mutually agreeable outcome? What you should not settle for is to be out any more money than you already are. While I think the faucet you selected could be mounted off center, I don't think it will function as effectively as it is intended, so I would advise to choose one that would. Minimum, the KD/fabricator should pay for this faucet complete the installation and chip repair to your satisfaction as well as give you some sort of price break to compensate you for their mistakes. It is really between the KD and fabricator to decide who eats this cost, but as such is case with the middle man, there is finger pointing and not fixing the problem. I'd be very clear what you will settle for and will not settle for, put it all in writing and then state what your next step would be if it is not resolved (BBB). I feel your first step needs to be try to work it out with them before rushing off to the BBB.

Then think, with the money you saved is there any other bling you can put into your kitchen to make your "heart sing" as I do agree at then end of the day there needs to be that special something to make your heart sing....unfortunately it's not going to be the faucet you set your heart on.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 1:23PM
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Well I think it's good news that the KD hired the fabricator. He will carry much more weight than the end customer.

I would draft a nice email to the KD stating that you're not satisfied with the installation and ask him to propose a few solutions for your consideration.

Meanwhile here's a faucet that seems to have the same vibe as the one you were going to use (below).

I can't see using your original faucet off-center, esp. since the hole has already been drilled center.

I would hope that they would come and try to first fix the chips to your satisfaction, and if that goes well, buy a new faucet of your choosing. Are you by chance able to return the original, with a restocking fee?

How much more money do you owe KD for the whole project, not just the counters, and how much work is left for them to do? This will tell you and us if it's worth KD's while to fix it...If you owe a lot for the kitchen installation then you have a leg to stand on.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kohler Vinatta

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 1:59PM
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Holly- Kay

Nicole, I would never worry about building your credit because you won't need credit. You will pay everything in cash. You have your emergency fund, you have your current mortagage already and I believe with your wonderful common sense attitude it will probably be the first and only mortgage you ever have. I would bet you and your DH really start to dig in and pay the mortgage off and when that is accomplished you can save that much more each month until you have enough for your next step up!!!

I am so very impressed with your maturity and it ticks me off that this company has pulled such a stinky move on you!

If you do get a cc please only put on it what you will pay off because even the added consumer protection of a cc is not worth it if you put more on it than you can pay off!

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 2:01PM
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The chips are an easy repair. Like livewireoak said, maybe the installers did it, maybe the fabricators did it, maybe it came from Cambria that way.(although highly unlikely after going thru their quality control at their slab manufacturing facility). Whats done is done, regarding the chips. Rest assured that they can be repaired, even if I have to tell/show you how to do it..

Regarding the sink/faucet situation, stuff like that happens. It happens because you, the homeowner dont do this stuff every day, and it also happens because the salesperson/ fabricators do this too often, and we take for granted that someone choosing a faucet, is either going to select a single hole, or at least individual pieces. (sorry, none of the pictures are showing up on my computer for some reason, so I dont know the exact problems)

I try not to steer my customers into any particular style of sink, and while I like the 60/40 sinks, there is always a question I have to answer when driling the faucet about the faucet not lining up with the center of the kitchen window (if applicable). Its the nature of the beast, so to speak. I have had customers that have been disappointed with the final install because of this, and I have had customers that understand the situation and move along without any regrets, but, things like this pop up occasionally in the real world, irregardless of how much research you think you and the client put into the application..

I hope you come up with a acceptable resolution to your situation and are able to move on and enjoy your Torquay for what it is.. Beautiful...


This post was edited by rollie on Sat, Apr 20, 13 at 11:03

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 3:04PM
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Hello everyone, I wanted to give an update.

Today I called Cambria and began to involve them. The girl was VERY concerned and apologetic. After she told me she was starting a claim and to call if any communication was made to us, my doorbell began to ring, I ignored it as I was not expected anyone and I was alone with our daughter and people we know and love don't come over without calling, and I was not expecting a package. I continued talking to her and I heard banging on the door and repeated bell ringing. Well I looked out the window and saw a white panel van, and chose not to answer.
After we hung up and she instructed me to send her pictures of the crooked counter (will explain in a minute) chips, and faucet holes.

The bell is still ringing. I go to the door and look out the hole, and it is the Installer man with his assistant and he looks furious. I open the door and he begins to yell at me "WHERE THE H*LL HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST 10 MINUTES"

Excuse Me. You come to my house unannounced and are screaming at me in front of my child. He claimed I was wasting their time and they were there to look at the chips. Well I told him he could look but that I just filed a claim with Cambria and I am now under instruction not to accept anything until I speak with them because I am still not sure if my counters are even (more on that again) and Cambria agrees that this is worth investigation becasue of the way I was treated with the faucet. I got the very distinct feeling this was not the first time this company was reported, she seemed to know exactly who they were.

He began to yell at me again, while his assistant tried to calm him down, he said "ARE YOU STILL ON THAT CRAP WITH THE DRILL HOLES" and I replied yes I am, and I need to call my REP at Cambria now to report this situation, and he began demanding I sign a piece of paper so he could say I refused his service.

I told him I did not agree to be harrassed in my home for any type of service and no way was I signing anything.

I called Cambria back and began to cry, I felt so out of control and I couldn't get ahold of my husband. I spoke with another Man and I told him I was scared and these people were parked outside my house and went through the whole saga. He also agreed this was not how things should be handled and began documenting the incident. The men finally left, and I called my Kitchen Company and told them that Cambria is now involved and if any men show up at my house uninvited again and threaten me I will be calling the police and this will most definitely be going in front of a jude.

As soon as I said Cambria was involved, they immediately changed their tune, and are now concerned. More on this later, but I feel like I am taking a step in the right direction.

I am going to post some pictures soon of some gaps in my counters surrounding the perimeter of one of the pieces so you all can see. I didn't dive into too much detail before because I wasn't sure if it was a problem, but we are now confident after talking with Cambria that the piece that was being cursed at to install was put it in crooked. Our kitchen was measured by us and the "pros" and we were told their was a slight SLIGHT variation in the wall, but nothing a BP would not cover. Well we got so wrapped up and emotional with the faucet and chips that it just set in that the counter is very crooked and we are confident this was not due to our wall, as measurements were taken multiple times, and they had to cut out a sizeable corner chunk to get the piece in.

We were told we would probably not be happy with just a painted wall but any type of mosaic or tile BP would easily cover the SLIGHT variation, and that it was completely normal.

We of course wanted a BP so we were in agreement and we took our own measurements of the walls and I don't have exact "numbers but it was the difference in like a fingernail in certain spots around the kitchen. Well it is still like that around the perimeter of the large piece, but the piece that they couldn't get in and had to chunk out the wall I can get my fingers all the way in most of the way around.

Please bear with me, I know sometimes I don't communicate things properly so if this does not make sense I am happy to clarify. I am very emotional right now as I feel like I was attacked in my home, and my two year old was crying hysterically because she has never seen a man yell at Mommy the way that this man did.

I am also writing all of this out now even though I am not completely calm for documentation as I don't want to forget, and my baby is sleeping now after this whole ordeal.

I have sent pictures, and documents to cambria as of now. Pictures of the walls are coming...

Here is the first one this is in the corner where they cut out. I can run my hand down multiple areas on this piece and looking straight at it, it looks crooked. Once you get to the seam which shares a wall with the other piece, it is almost perfectly straight all the way. Does that make sense? In other words we don't think that it is a coincidence that a the only parts of the wall that are vastly uneven happen to be exactly where the piece lies, in addition to the fact that my husband's measurements confirm our theory.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 6:02PM
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If you can see the black rectangle I placed to indicate where the seam is you will see that everything to the right of the black is one piece and I can stick my hand down several places. Including the area under the outlet next to the sink, so it is not just one wall. It is only where that piece borders.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 6:15PM
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The rest of the kitchen to the left of the sink and around to the stove has a variance of my fingernail to where I can't even get my nail in at all.

So sorry I am not loading pics all at once but I am having a hard time figuring it out with Picasa.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 6:25PM
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I am so sorry for you, Nicole. That sounds scary. I am glad to hear Cambria is being responsive. My Cambria order is going on hold until this resolves. I think they are going to stand behind their product and installation process. I hope so.

Regarding credit cards, if you wish the security of a card without the credit line, apply for one of American Express's many CHARGE cards. Now, a lot of small businesses won't take them because the fees are high. (That's where AmEx makes their money.) But most of the time, when a dispute arises, AmEx yanks the charge and makes the vendor prove they are owed the money. They have done this for me many, many times. You must pay the card in full at the end of the month, but it lifts your credit rating fast. They do offer some credit cards nowadays, so chose carefully if you go that route.

Good luck to you.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 6:30PM
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Well it sounds like you have learned a couple of lessons. Please never open a door if you are uncomfortable. Call a relative, neighbor, or the police. The police will tell you 'when in doubt-call.'

I tagged along a lot as a kid to my mom's work. She was a secretary at the police department in Violent Crimes and then Sex Crimes. I learned a lot from sitting with those detectives all day. Just because you are a young female you don't have to be nice and make yourself vulnerable especially with your young kiddo around.

I have been following your saga, and it sounds like with Cambria on board things may get better. Good luck.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 6:32PM
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I'm so sorry sugar, I hope ya'll get it taken care of. It's upsetting when things like this happen. This too shall pass ~sending a little prayer for you and DH. : )

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 6:48PM
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Oh thank you MizLizzie, I think if we ever decide to sign up for a card that type of AMEX would absolutely be the only way for us to go.

I hope I don't discourage anyone from Cambria as a product, it is beautiful but I am having a hard time seeing the dream counter I have been waiting for amongst the mess I am in.

I promise I will continue to update so everyone knows how Cambria follows through, and I did tell them that I was documenting all of this on a well know internet forum, and I shared several of your stories on how your fabrication and Cambria installations went in comparison to mine, so I know it is not what I should have expected.

I also let them know that for me I considered a couple of Silestone and Zodiac choices because I would have the backing of HD or Lowes but ultimately I knew Cambria Torquay was for me but now I am starting to wish I would have gone with one of my lesser favorites because at least they would have been significantly less and I would have had more pressure from a big box store on this fabricator.

I can't look back now, or at least yet. In my dream world I would have them come pull everything out and refund me my money and I could start all over again with someone else but I know that is not likely going to happen. I just can't even bear to have this man come in my home again after the way he treated me.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 7:00PM
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It is truly alarming that Cambria would certify someone so unprofessional, to the point of his losing control and swearing at you in raised voices in front of your child! We have to let these people into our homes, and Cambria has some responsibility to certify only those fabricators with whom it is SAFE to do business. I applaud you for handling yourself so well in such an awful situation. When you feel like it, I hope you'll consider posting online reviews of the KD, Contractors, Fabricators, and Cambria's final solutions. You can help others avoid them! Certainly Cambria just got crossed off my list until they show they can be better trusted with family safety!!

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 7:04PM
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Thank you all and you all are right I should not have opened that door, and I knew better than that. I have learned so much from this whole experience. DIYing things involves alot of time on you tube, reading books, learning as you go and visiting hardware stores.

We were really joking about how spoiled we would be by not having to do a project ourselves and how it would be "perfect" the first time ha!

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 7:10PM
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OT, but I have to say how much I LOVE your cabinet doors! The line detail is awesome, and I am currently having a serious love affair with teal/turquoise so that color is dreamy!

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 7:22PM
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Aww thanks I have to say I have a love/hate relationship with the doors. Some days I love them since they are original, not sure if you can see the plaque below the sink but it says "Union Made" in our area of Florida. Pretty cool to me :) Unfortunately I have heard so many people come in my house that make polite, but joking like comments about how they could never live with all that blue, so I think over time I have become convinced they had to go. I always knew the counters were a gonner because of their porous nature after 60 years, but I will say in 60 years my Formica only had one chip :)

I am about to load some pictures we took to try and give an idea about how uneven the counter is, and perhaps an expert can tell us if there is a better way to document the difference. There is no uniform overhang...

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 8:28PM
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Picture of a clamp holding a pen, the clamp remains stationary and the pen will represent the variation. There is a 1/2 inch difference in the overhang from one end to the other.

This end is near the corner close to the seam.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 10:02PM
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This would be the other end...You can't really see in the photograph but the clamp is up right against the counter.

We sent the photographs to Cambria tonight to add to our other photographs and documentation for our claim. Hopefully we will get some kind of response from them tomorrow, and I will update if and when I do.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 10:09PM
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So someone is knocking at your door and you choose to ignore it for 10 minutes when you could have taken two seconds to look out the peephole? Sounds like the whole situation and your melodrama could have been easily avoided. Not saying the situation isn't how you described but there seems to be a bit of hyperbole here.

    Bookmark   April 11, 2013 at 11:31PM
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Check it with a tape measure on the left side of the dishwasher. the right side of the dishwasher and the right end of the cabinets for variance. It is not all that uncommon for the corner filler (where you are measuring in the first picture) to not be properly placed on that vintage of cabinetry. I'm not saying thats what it is, but with that much variance, its hard to believe they couldve even fabricated it without haveing a red flag show up.

Also, give me the actual measurement of the top itself at the two places you have shown in the last two pictures.

Depending on what your choice of a backsplash was going to be. ( I couldnt tell from the previous posts.... BP?) whether you should be able to stick your fingers down the gap. Ive never had one that large, but... if you were using a 3cm Cambria backsplash, then that would easily cover the gap. Tile could, depending on how thick it was, but it would be doubtful that with Torquay you would be installing a thick clay tile, so Im saying without backfilling the wall, or adding 1/4" backerboard it wont cover..

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 7:32AM
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I have taken some measurements...

To the left of the dishwasher- 1.4in overhang
To the right of the dishwasher-1.10in overhang
End of the piece (left of fridge)-2.1in overhang

In the picture you see here I have put up some Post-Its as a quick way to give a visual.

Everwhere you see a yellow star the piece is pretty close to the wall (ie slight variance, BP will cover)

Everywhere you see an orange star I can put my hand down, and as I described we don't think a BP will cover.

The piece itself measures 87.5 inches x 25.5 inches.

The two places with the hands before were to the left of the dishwasher (one end) and to the left of the fridge (other end).

Both places are coming in at 25.5 inches deep for the piece itself.

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 8:45AM
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Also I don't know if this gives a better visual of how "off it looks"

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 8:47AM
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Did they actually make a template with cardboard? If they did, it would have laid on your bases just how this piece does. I'm wondering if they just took a measurement....

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 9:12AM
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I'm wondering whether the cabinets may have something to do with this. I mean they are over 50 years old. You say they are in good condition, but it doesn't mean they are completely straight. Not sure if I would have sprung for an expensive counter on such antiquated cabinets. As you said the house was a fixer upper so who knows how those cabinets were treated. Who knows how much longer they are going to last.

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 9:13AM
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A good quality installation will have a max variation in overhang of 1/8" (+ or - a 1/16")

the gaps back by the wall are unimportant if they are going to be covered by splash. if no splash the the 1/8" gap rule applies again.

I'm pleased for you to hear Cambria is responding. Seems very likely they knew that had a partner that was incapable or unwilling to handlle customer issues properly.

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 9:20AM
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Oh wow I am sorry I really hope you can get this worked out.

I too am a stay at home mom with 2 little ones, I have been known to not answer the door if I do not recognize the vehicle. If some one was still pounding on the door after 10 minutes not sure what I would do.

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 9:50AM
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converting your numbers

Left of dishwasher 1.4= approx 1 7/16.

Right of dishwasher 1.1 is slightly under 1 1/8 inches

Assuming the front edge of the Cambria is straight..there is no way that there is a 3/8 inch difference in the Cambria edge in 24 inches of the dishwasher, nor would you want that. There is something going on with the face of the cabinets, for this section, like I mentioned before..

one the right end, you have approx a 2 1/8 inch overhang there, correct?

Most of the time, there are concessions made for actual conditions, where a template needs to "average out" the discrepancies. Yours certainly sounds like it is outside of the realm of what could have been done within averaging of conditions..

Along with the proper clearances at walls, and overhangs, the seam has to match in the field, as it was fabricated in the shop. It looks to me like this is part of the problem, that in order for the seam to match up as fabricated, that they had to cut it into the wall on the right corner slightly, and pull it away from the wall on the far right, in order to make it come together. Does that sound feasible, as to what may have happened?

If the seam did not match up and they had to make concessions, then, when the pieces of stone were pushed tight to both wals, it appears like the seam wouldve been open at the front, according to what you have described.I believe that the gappage that you have to the right of the sink, may be in your wall. I believe the gappage you have on the right piece, is a function of squaring the seam, and it is not within my tolerances... I dont know what tolerances the fabrication shop has.

Was there ever a "square" measurement taken by your husband or the templaters, assuming that they are only going off measurements? (electronic tempating would have taken the square/out of square into consideration automatically)
While your installers seem less than desireable, they probably have nothing to do with templating or fabricating. They probably are employees of the fabrication facility, and can only do their best with the fabricated product as they deliver it, and ultimately, its up to them how to make the proper adjustments to the fabricated pieces to fit within the tolerances of all the provided information. Often times, they do not know the reason why something doesnt fit, because they know nothing about the job, until they load it on the truck. All of the decisions have been made, prior , and they are not privy to that information, or how it was derived.
I am not trying to protect them, and think they were wrong with their approach, both from the start, and particularly at the end.. What I have written, applies to every installer everywhere, no matter the product.. The installation can only be as good as the fabrication allows.

How did they "template" your job? was it actual cutout pieces to go by? Did they use some sort of electrical/digital templating system, or was it simply a series of measurements? Am I correct in my understanding that your husband also took measurements? Was this required for this company, or just for his own records?

Can you fill in the letters that you mean by "BP", just for clarification? I have an idea what you are meaning, but just need to clarify..

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 10:09AM
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A large portion of the problem is the cabinets. I would never have chosen such an expensive and permanant counter for cabinets that have that many out of level issues. Despite your belief that they are in good condition, they aren't. They should have been replaced first.

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 10:43AM
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Thanks everyone I am at work so I can't recheck the measurements now but they did template using pieces of wood, and the guy told me that he would be adding 1.5 inches (I believe it was 1.5) to accommodate for the Formica backsplash since he couldn't get up to the wall with his wood. There was no electronic device used.

I agree with you that the installers could only work with what they have. I can't say much but I know that I heard them disagreeing as to which piece should go in first. I then heard the one remark to the other quietly There is no way this is "this off" I then came out of the playroom with my daughter I could kind of hear and see them. I asked what was wrong now, and they said nothing this is normal don't worry. I watched them fight with the piece for a long time, and the one guy was yelling at the other one that he was doing it wrong, and before I could say anything they called out not to be concerned, well I know how young men talk to each other so that's ok. But then they started cutting into my walls and finally got it in. Then the one couldn't get the seam to work and said it was his new machine, and again don't worry.

They left and put a tube of calk on the counter, and said my husband could use that to fill in the gaps if he desired.

As far as the remarks on the cabinets, I don't know what to say other than we could just be young kids who don't know anything and they could be uneven but as far as how long they will last I think they would last another 50 years and both the KD and the templator commented that
nothing is made this strong anymore.

I think our problem was we trusted the KD and if there was any problem and the counters wouldn't work we would have thought someone would have told us.

Looks like we might be partially responsible for not doing our homework after all.

If we would have went into HD and bought Formica off the shelf my husband would have probably figured this out, but we trusted the person we were paying to alert us to any issues, if there were any.

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 11:14AM
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I am so sorry about your situation. You must be so frustrated. They left you caulk to finish the job? Unless you planned this as a DIY - that is very strange...
Hang in there and let us know what Cambria says..

Ours went well and the seams are almost perfect. No gap, no chips...

Love you cabinets and that you used the old cabinets - it probably made it harder but not impossible..

FYI - We always pay off our credit cards each month - so have to plan what we buy - but our kitchen afforded me a few free trips to visit DM, so was worth it - the credit card companies aren't too impressed that we pay it off as they make $$ on those who don't (as you know)

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 11:39AM
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Whats done, is done. No sense piling on..

I have installed Cambria (and other stones) over new cabinets that probably werent as structurally sound as these.

I think this can be salvaged, if everyone comes together with a plan of attack. (and a different set of installers)

If my suspicions are true, I'm thinking that both pieces have to go back to the fab shop for the seam to be square with the walls in order for this to all work out..

Other than the potential of the left side DW filler not being in plane with the right side of the cabinet, I see no problems with the cabinetry involved. Not my taste, for sure, but, Im not living there, and I believe they will be changing out the fronts..

This post was edited by rollie on Fri, Apr 12, 13 at 11:46

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 11:42AM
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Yes we are changing out the fronts. I have done a lot of research on color undertones and whatnot, and we didn't want to paint before we got the counters in to see how different paints would look with the counters in our lighting.

Might not be the order others would have done things in but I knew I wanted Torquay and I was flexible on paint, so it made sense for us.

We just got a call from the KD and they are going to be sending out someone from a different company to review the situation next week! I will update accordingly.

Thank you so much Rollie!

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 12:14PM
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Sounds like youre moving forward. Thats good, and its just a little bump in the road, that will soon be forgetten, if everyone works together to make it happen.

Templating with plywood, or cardboard or anything else, when there are existing countertops in place is risky at best, primarily because you dont know how much fitting was to to the integral laminate backsplash to begin with. You kind of just have to have a "fudge factor" which is alot harder to deal with in stone, than laminate. Factor in the cost factor, and the fact that "Im paying X amount of dollars for this high priced countertop.... I want it perfect" isnt always able to be achieved, if you are handcuffed with a templating situation that doesnt allow accurate templating.

Now, with that said, they couldve possibly done a better, more accurate job with straightedges on the wall, above the existing backsplashes. for thier final measurments, because ultimately, this is whats important, not how the existing laminate fit the wall..

Good luck, Nicole..

I dont check in very often, and its actually quite rare that I looked this morning.. I hope I shed some light on the intricasies of an installation..

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 2:38PM
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Best of luck to you for a satisfactory resolution to this unfortunate situation. They certainly sound very unprofessional; not all customers are courteous, but at end of the day, they are the customer so even if you were less than polite, their response is still unacceptable.

On the credit card note, I've also found that companies will approve us (or my teenaged children) for amounts that are significantly higher than we need; esp. my kids. Keep in mind, it is also possible to lower your credit limit to what you and your DH feel comfortable with. I recently got a joint card with my 17-year-old DD more for convenience when she goes out shopping, etc. and give her some training in how to use and manage her credit. My DH and I decided that she could only have a limit of $600 so I requested her limit be lowered to that amount. That way she is also not tempted to overspend beyond what she had in her savings account.

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 2:57PM
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In regards to the comment about my melodrama,

When the bell first rang I initially thought it was the Jehovia Witness' because they have come a couple of times in the last month, as they are having a big event soon. I didn't need to add that information in before but FYI that is why I ignored it.

As I said we do not have any family or friends that would just show up on a weekday when I normally would not have been home (but I was because we were having our washer delivered before all of this happened) Anyone I know that lives near me would have called me. So thats that. Our mailman rings once and leaves if something doesn't fit in our box.

I have never had someone come to my door and repeatedly bang and press the bell repeatedly, and when I saw the white panel van out the window with no markings you bet your life I didn't go near my door to look out the peephole. I am sorry but that is not normal period. GE delivered my washer in a huge Semi Truck. My husband drives a box truck for work, the mailman drives a mail truck, my mom friends drive minivans. My point is I don't know anyone who drives a white panel van-unmarked. The day they installed my counters they drove a truck with their logo on the side with a trailer behind.

Now to add some more information for anyone wondering about the measurements.

We have now made a major discovery and it is now obvious why the overhang is so great, and it has nothing to do with our cabinets.

My husband spent some time taking some measurements of the entire kitchen, and guess what?

The piece that is in front of the window, that has the sink measures a depth of 26th and 1/8th inches.

The piece that we believe was put in cock eyed that I have been talking about has a depth of 25 and 3/8th inches. (I was off by 1/10th of an inch when I said this morning it was 25.5)

THIS IS ONLY THE DEPTH OF THE STONE, as in we took the tape measurer and got it in the space between the wall and the front and never touched the wall, this is just the stone.

We never measured the other piece because we were fixated on the piece being rolled in crooked.

One of our cabinets differentiates the rest by 1/16th of an inch for those concerned they might be part of the problem.

I began this thread concerned about my faucet and chips and now I realize that was truly nothing compared to this.

Thank you all for all of your kind advice and patience, I am so appreciative.

I will probably not add any more information until after Tuesday when the inspector comes as I don't want to clutter this forum with my melodrama :) I do want to update for those that are following this and are curious.
Have a wonderful weekend to you all :)

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 9:37PM
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Holly- Kay

Nicole, you don't have to justify yourself to realism. I don't blame you at all for not answering the door!

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 10:22PM
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"Now to add some more information for anyone wondering about the measurements.

We have now made a major discovery and it is now obvious why the overhang is so great, and it has nothing to do with our cabinets. "

"One of our cabinets differentiates the rest by 1/16th of an inch for those concerned they might be part of the problem."

One would have to assume that this is pointed at me, as I have questioned this a couple times...

You have the benefit of being able to measure everything there.

We, as onlookers, trying to help can only process the information you give us, and the 1/10" does not concern me, or probably anyone else.

The width of the sink piece doesnt really matter, what ultimately matters is the distance away from the wall(which you have indicated as being tight) and the amount of overhang from the front of the cabinets on that piece, which you havent said. IIf its 26 1/8, and tight to the wall, then there should be approx 2 1/8 inchers of overhang on that piece..if everything about that wall is "standard". That would be unacceptable for me, and im sure probably you..

a 24 inch base cabinet should have a top that measures somewhere between 25 1/4 and 25 1/2 inches for a standard overlay door. It appears your doors are a lipped overlay, so the actual amount of overhang is up for discussion at the time of measuring.. Just like an inset door application can have a top that measures anywhere from 24 3/4, to 25 1/2, depending on the edge selected, or the owners wishes..

I hope you get this resolved..

    Bookmark   April 13, 2013 at 2:56AM
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Video Link at Bottom...

Hi everyone, I have some updates. On Tuesday of this week our Kitchen Company sent out their site surveyor to inspect the job. He agreed that there was no reason there should be varying depths in the counters, and that our cabinets and walls would not have impacted that. He said very little, but also agreed that it was not our fault we did not get the faucet configuration that we wanted. He left and assured me he would deal with the owner of the Fabrication Company himself.

Later that day my door bell rang, and it was a certified letter from the Fabrication Company announcing they were starting the Lien Process, and they had the right as a subcontractor to put a a Lien on our home regardless if we pay our Kitchen Company in Full. Great, exactly what I was afraid of.

My husband called my kitchen company back and they also got the certfied letter, but said no more other than they were working on this and would call us in the morning.

My husband speaks with the Site Surveyor, we are now told we are to work with him. He is still going around about the fact that we can pick another faucet, yadayada, but our biggest concern right now is the counters and their depth and "Crookedness" if you will. He says they could possibly removed and refabricated.

We are then told that the owner of the Fabrication store himself wants to drive 70 miles to our house to inspect this work. We knew this was an intimidation tactic because the site surveyor took pictures, measurements, etc...why would he want to come to our house. Also we had done some research on him in the meantime, and we got the feeling this was his M/O.

My husband told the site surveyor that we would need a rep. from the kitchen company present, and that they should only come if they are under the understanding the entire thing will be videotaped, as we are not playing any games. If he is only coming to measure and offer to fix the pieces, this should not be an issue.

He told us that was fine. If you follow this link you can see the video/hear audio, sorry it cuts out for a couple seconds at the end. I was not in the house with our daughter, my husband dealt with this himself.

Also Cambria is VERY interested in the fact that this joker is mis-representing himself as a Cambria Lexus Partner, when in fact he is not. There are only 16 in North America, none in Florida, and they are very elite companies from what we undertstand, and Cambria has assured us we will be getting a call from the Regional Manager on Monday.

You will see in the video he lies repeatedly and makes excuses. When he claims at the end we have made false statements against his company he is referring to the letter we sent to the BBB and our complaints to Cambria. We have only spoken truthful statements about him and his company, unfortunately he is just a lying crook.

For those interested in Cambria and how they have helped us so far, it's hard to say. They definitely made contact with these companies, and offered us sympathy and continued support via phone, if you will but as you will see at the end of the video the owner says he will not help us and walks out the door...we never even talked about the varying depths of the counters, etc...

The only thing he is telling the truth about is, I did accept the counters but I never signed anything and that was only after they said they had 1/2 my money, and my formica was ruined. I did try to reject the counters....

So for now we wait until Monday. The site surveyor said he would talk to his boss on Monday. I swear it's like buying a car, when they keep going in the back to talk with the boss, but for now we wait some more....

Thanks again everyone!

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 8:47AM
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If the "Kitchen Company" is in agreement with you, then there should be no reason to fear the mechanics lien. Technically, the lien can be removed if the Cabinet company pays the fabrication facility their unpaid portion of the invoice, assuming you paid the cabinet company the deposit.

Ultimately, the cabinet company hired the fabricator, its their problem to take care of the fabrication invoice. If they are in agreement with you that the fabrication/installation is defective its up to them to work out the details. If both the fabrication company and the kitchen company are in agreement that the final job is acceptable, then you are probably in trouble, but it doesnt sound that way to me. Correct?

I cannot imagine, in this day and age, that there is anyone certified to fabricate and install Cambria that isnt equipped with digital templating equipment...

"Cambria has assured us we will be getting a call from the Regional Manager on Monday."

Keep us informed on how this goes..

I gotta ask, If, the Cambria fit the wall perfectly, and the overhangs on the cabinets were good, what would you do with the sink/faucet situation. Do you like the sink well enough to use an alternative faucet, or do you want the faucet chosen, and would like a different sink/countertop, because ultimately, you have an incompatible combination with the two right now and you will have to make a decision on how to proceed..


    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 9:22AM
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I'm sorry you're having this problem.

Because it's an active situation, my advice would be to keep the video and other evidence private unless otherwise professionally advised.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 9:52AM
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Hi Rollie,

I am not sure about the Lien. In Florida, there is a statue that states a subcontractor can place a lien upon your house even if you have paid your contractor in full...

Well our company was in agreement that it was incorrect...but we are thinking that the Kitchen Company needs the fabricator and that is why they are on their side. Our Kitchen rep acted completely different with the Fabricator then he did when he came out on Tuesday.

When my husband turned the camera off after the Fabrication Owner left, he asked the Site Surveyor to be real, and he again admitted that they messsed up and he would talk to the boss on Monday.

I mean this is tough, because I think the Kitchen Company knows the Fabricators screwed up but neither of them is willing to take the loss. The Fabrication company are complete crooks, and the Kitchen Company needs them to full fill jobs so they can stay in business. We think they do all of their Silestone, Cambria, etc...

We were starting to get over the faucet, and were just looking for them to fix the depth mistakes, and fill the chips, but when the Site Surveyor came out Tuesday he was really on our side that while we were in the small percent of those who wanted that style of faucet, we paid for that look and it was wrong that we didn't get it. He wasn't emotional about it or anything he just said, we told you to have the faucet information for templating, you had it, they rejected it, it's not your fault.

Now that the Fabricator is unwilling to fix the depth issues, we don't know where we stand.

The only thing I can think of is if we meet somewhere in the middle on the cost, and then we take the money we saved and pay another fabricator to fix the depth issues, and obviously understand we are doing the one hole faucet.

We would only do that though after we could see if another Fabricator could fix the depth issues, how much it would cost, etc...

Does that seem possible Rollie? Are Fabricators willing to fix other people's messes?

Thank you so much for you response.


    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 9:54AM
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Ahh yes, Cambria is aware of the video and they know it is on Youtube...

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 10:17AM
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Oh man, your husband has guts! I'm certainly not trying to make light of the situation, but he was cracking me up with his chipper attitude. Can I hire him the next time I need something done? I'm always such a coward when it comes to that kind of thing.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 10:23AM
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I meant you might need the advice of an attorney and I'm not sure that they would suggest it was wise to put that out in the public domain.

I was thinking this: Do you have his permission on the video or in writing to record and publish the video that could potentially become evidence should you need to pursue legal action?

My approach to these kinds of matters is different than others on this board, but your situation now includes legal action which seems to me more serious.

Just my perspective.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 10:29AM
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Subcontractor can lien your property. Most times this happens when the owner pays the contractor,(Kitchen Company) and the contractor doesnt pay the subcontractor.

Yours is different because it sounds like the kitchen company is on your side.

Who did you write the deposit check out to? Kitchen company, or fabrication facility?

Since you have 26 some inches on the sink piece over all, I do think that there it can be refabricated to work, although I havent seen close up pictures of the far left, or the far right to see how it all goes together. I guess there are pictures of the far right, and it looks like it is just a standard end overhang into a refrigerator opening? Or does it butt into something? (panel). What about to the left of the sink? Is that open ended, or does it butt into a wall?

I dont know it the relationship with the fabrication facility is terminal with you (as owners) or not.

Ultimately, the kitchen company hired them... and needs them, evidently.

If you are to move forward

Kitchen company needs to pay the fabrication company for the defective work performed so far, in good faith that they will be allowed to come back, remove the pieces and refabricate them to proper specifications and install with different installation technicians, at no charge to you. The cost associated with this approach are between the cabinet company and the fabrication company.. I would think that the fab co. knows that they have the kitchen co over a barrel, because they need them, if there isnt any other certified fabs around. They need to work together. This isnt your problem..

Ultimately, I'm of the opinion that the seam needs to be reworked in order for all the pieces to come together the way they shouldve to begin with, but like I said earlier, Im not there, so im just taking a shot in the dark..Assuming you are willing to integrate a different faucet, or live with your faucet being off center. or, a new sink piece is in the works.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 11:00AM
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Get your lawyer to write the fabricator a letter about how they didn't template correctly for the faucet, etc. Sometimes that's all it takes for them to admit their mistakes to themselves and move on.

Be brief with your lawyer! They charge by the hour, lol. Just state the simple, basic facts, some pictures, and let him inquire any other information if he needs it.

P.S. I would remove the video from the internet.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sat, Apr 20, 13 at 13:17

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 12:58PM
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So sorry to hear this isn't getting resolved.

I do agree with the posts advising to keep the detailed info off public places for now as this is ongoing and maybe headed for lawyer involvement. As much as I'd love to see how this unfolds as my own countertop templating will be in about a month, it may hurt your legal position.

If there is someone that wants an update to help with their own situation, they can always contact you via email vs an open forum.

Do let us know how this ends though. It helps people going through someone similar see what might happen.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 1:48PM
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Yes, go dark until this is resolved and definitely talk to a lawyer. Lien laws vary by state but generally the person putting on the lien has a short time to prove their case to a judge or the lien will expire and you clearly have evidence that the fabricator didn't meet their obligation. Good luck. The KD shouldn't be dependent on the fabricator - if they're not licensed to install Cambria, the KD shouldn't sell it.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 1:57PM
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Just watched it. This guy is an idiot. I wonder if he believes what he is saying. A normal person or contractor worries about making a mistake drilling into expensive cabinets and counters when they have the specs. They have to eat their mistakes. They certainly don't proceed without the information, guessing at fixtures and locations. He doesn't have a leg to stand on with these things he is trying to pull over on his customer (incomplete information, wrong faucet for the sink you chose ... ). He is the so-called professional here.

"Why are you shaaakkiing?" Come on, lol.

Don't deal with them anymore or respond to their threats. Let your lawyer handle them.

Strive for a full refund so you can start over with a professional. I wouldn't let them back in my house. They can pick up the (carefully padded/stored) removed counter outside or it can be delivered back to them.

This post was edited by snookums2 on Sat, Apr 20, 13 at 14:17

    Bookmark   April 20, 2013 at 2:15PM
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I found this brochure that explains lien law in Florida.

Here is a link that might be useful: Florida Liens

    Bookmark   April 21, 2013 at 6:27PM
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edited to delete duplicate post

This post was edited by jerzeegirl on Sun, Apr 21, 13 at 20:17

    Bookmark   April 21, 2013 at 8:15PM
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Lien laws vary by state, but my general rule is that you should not give final payment to the GC until he provides you with signed lien release forms from all subs, precisely because the subs can file liens against your house even if you pay the GC in full but he fails to pay the subs. You contracted with the kitchen company, and they hired the sub that did the faulty work, so the kitchen company is ultimately responsible for the quality of the work. Assuming you have not already paid the kitchen company in full for whatever you owe them, I would inform them that you are withholding payment in an amount equal to the full cost of the counters until they provide you with a signed lien release from their sub (it is between them and the fabricator what financial arrangement they come to to get the release signed) as well as properly installed counters. In other words, don't pay until you get exactly what you are paying for plus a lien release from everyone.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 1:44PM
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Wow, what a situation! I have little to add except to say that I have had to deal with a few people who assumed that they could intimidate, bully, patronize or embarrass me into accepting a wrong situation and that a letter from an attorney works wonders. Don't forget that although he can (attempt to) place a lien, you can sue as well. He has to prove that his work met his obligations.

Your phone and email records will be important to show that you did NOT accept the workmanship, since you were calling to complain as the install was happening.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2013 at 2:45PM
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what happened? i was searching for something else and came across your post. after reading it for 30+ minutes i want to know the outcome :)

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 2:58AM
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Maybe they got it from fixed but had to go silent.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 8:30AM
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