granite installed and i found a chip along the wall:(

ardcpApril 25, 2014

trebruchet are you around? can this be fixed or should it be redone? they are coming back because the piece that is seamed in is too short, the overhang is flush to the end of the cabinet. this is the fabricator that undermounted the sink i wanted top mounted and was going to charge for it until i called. when questioned they immediately said they would waive the cut out fee as the installer called them to tell them of our conversation.
if you can't see it very well it is about 1" in length and looks like a piece broke away so it has varying depth and is jagged. it is against the wall and may well be covered by a tile backsplash.
ps i hate the undermount reveal! is it a negative reveal when the granite is over the sink edge? it is exactly what i was trying to avoid by doing top mount. now any pans hitting the side will hit the granite, not the sink:(

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ardcp - we can't see it at all, looks like the photo didn't attach.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 11:21AM
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Sorry I will try again

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 11:30AM
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Is that along the wall that will eventually have a backsplash (I ask because in addition to the chip, the whole thing looks pretty jagged-edged, but that might be fine if it's going to be covered by the backsplash tile.

What reveal did you ask for for the undermounted sink? I specified that I wanted a "small positive reveal". Yes, a negative reveal is where the edge of the granite comes over the edge of the sink (I personally don't like that look, which is why I specified what I did).

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 11:34AM
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sjhockeyfan- yes it is along the wall and i am hoping it will be covered by the backsplash of subway tiles as yet to be bought. it looks pretty jagged to me too but what do i know? and i didn't get to ask for a kind of reveal since my sink was supposed to be top mounted not undermount but they showed up with the counter having a polished cutout for undermount (my silgranite sink that technically fits in a 33" sink base only when top mounted - 36" is needed for undermount per their website) so now i have a negative reveal which is my least favorite and is going to be whacked with any pans in the sink! i wanted to avoid any worry of chipping the sink edge by doing top mount.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 11:43AM
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So they made the cutout too big? Because if its too small, they could cut it out on-site to make it work with the sink as a dropin.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 11:46AM
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i am assuming it is too small, right? of course the installers probably think i am crazy since i wanted a drop in. i explained my concerns about seal failure, separation of sink and granite, etc and they assured me that it won't happen. they used silicone and some mechanical fastener(probably clips) and swear that it won't fail. i didn't know at the time that it was a negative reveal and i didn't discuss chipping at sink edge. i was surprised by the change as no one called to ask me before they did the cut out. my final bill states "customer changed to undermount" which i did not. clearly there was some miscommunication onsite.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 12:34PM
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The cutting for an undermount is possibly completely different than for a drop-in. Were they going to have to drill holes in the granite for the faucet? Or was the faucet installing to the sink itself?

My installation went smooth as silk and pretty quickly after ordering, and it still was a major inconvenience. If what had happened to you had happened to me I would have made them redo the whole thing according to my original specs.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 12:53PM
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ardcp, if you specified a top mount sink and they gave you an undermount sink with a negative reveal (I too hate negative reveals) there is no reason whatsoever that you have to accept their mistake. If you were inclined to go along with an undermount sink, you should insist that it have a positive reveal.

Am I reading this correctly that they installed your top mount sink as an undermount? Can you please post pictures so we can see what they left you with?

Frankly, I wouldn't have any problem telling these people to forget about giving me what they wanted, and to give me what I bought and paid for. You are the one that is going to be living with this. Stand up for what you want.

This post was edited by jellytoast on Fri, Apr 25, 14 at 13:15

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 1:13PM
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jellytoast- here is a pic of the sink. i think they did a good job with the cut out but it is not what i wanted. my husband thinks it looks great but i still have grave concerns about sink edge chips. i also dislike the loss of sink space with a negative reveal but they have waived the cut out fee so i feel like a jerk complaining

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 2:11PM
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Take a deep breath. Relax.

You are much better off with the undermount, especially if you're concerned about chipping. If you chip the edge of your stone, especially in that color/particulate/movement, it can be fixed very inconspicuously and relatively inexpensively. If you dropped the same pot onto that sink edge, you're going to look at the chip/scratch/gouge or the conspicuous repair until the day you replace the sink.

If you are going to install a splash that will cover the chip, I wouldn't worry about a repair. If not, they should easily be able to make an inconspicuous repair, especially in such a little used and relatively hard to see area.

They could reprofile and polish the sink edge to a larger radius, which would further lower the chances of chipping, without removing the top.

Go with your husband on this one.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 2:28PM
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Well, I understand your concerns, and definitely agree they should have done what you asked for, but I must say, it looks great!

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 2:34PM
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ardcp ... many of us here gave a lot of thought to how we wanted our sinks installed. Why do you think there are so many different sink options, and why do fabricators offer different reveals? It is because we all have our preferences. You contracted for a top mount sink. You should get it. Period.

While I do agree that the sink looks very nice, the fact that they had to install it with a negative reveal would have been the deal breaker for me. You are the one that uses your kitchen. You are the one that is paying them. Trust me, if you had a GC on your job and the granite people arrived with the wrong cut out for your sink, the GC would have insisted that it be corrected. If you are going to act as your own GC, you have to get over that "feeling like a jerk" for insisting on getting what you paid for.

Let me get this straight, they waived the cut out fee for a cut out that YOU DIDN'T WANT an you are supposed to feel grateful?? You are well within your rights to expect to get what you contracted for. Whether or not it looks great is irrelevant if it is not what you wanted. They already know that. And it doesn't bother them one bit that you "feel like a jerk" for thinking about asking them to correct it. If they did care, they would not have installed it.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 2:35PM
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thanks trebruchet and sjhockeyfan! i know long term i will love the under mount, i am just very picky and i tend to worry about everything that could possibly happen and try to plan accordingly.
trebruchet-i am doing a backsplash, so don't even bother filling the chip? also can i really ask them to re polish the sink edge now that it's installed? again i didn't ask for undermount and they waived the fee for it so i feel like a jerk asking for anything extra. although they do have to come back because they cut a piece too short and have to replace it so they would be here. photo is of the piece they are replacing because it has no overhang

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 2:43PM
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Personally, I think this is a happy accident! The sink and the granite look far more rich as an undermount. You did mention DH liked it as well. What a pretty combination. What kind of granite is that?

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 2:50PM
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jellytoast- literally lol! you are right of course but the way you said it made me laugh and thank you very much for that! i am very torn on the sink and i am irritated with myself for being so picky (super anal?!) i sometimes feel that i don't have a clue as to what the heck i am doing:) i am inclined to leave it be just so it is done but i have a niggling fear that i will regret it later. i am at the point where i really am questioning my thought processes on this kitchen!

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 2:52PM
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again i didn't ask for undermount and they waived the fee for it so i feel like a jerk asking for anything extra

I know jelly's and your last post discussed this, but why you "feel like a jerk" is beyond me - you're not asking them for anything extra - you're asking them to "fix what they broke" (including polishing the inside rim of the now-undermounted sink, which wouldn't have been necessary had they done it right in the first place).

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 3:08PM
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ardcp, you are making me laugh, too, especially with this statement ... "again i didn't ask for undermount and they waived the fee for it so i feel like a jerk asking for anything extra."

Come on now ... you surely must know that in asking them to correct their mistake that you are not asking for anything extra!! They "waived the fee" for their own mistake? That's mighty generous of them!

I don't blame you for questioning your thought process. There is something amiss if you are "irritated with yourself" and "feel like a jerk" for even thinking about standing up for yourself.

I've seen lots of sink installs that look great, but that doesn't mean I want them for myself in my kitchen. It's only a happy accident if it makes you happy. If it doesn't, you have nothing to lose by calling them up and telling them how you feel.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 3:15PM
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FWIW i agree with others that say it looks great...

i love undermount sinks, so i'm partial to them. had top-mount previously and hated it. couldn't push crumbs into sink and water around rim, just messy overall...undermount much cleaner and easier to maintain, IMHO

but i do understand u want what u want...

best of luck in whatever u choose do

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 3:18PM
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Listen to jellytoast. She's making great sense!

Looks like the chip will be covered by the tile. I wouldn't accept the negative reveal though.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 3:58PM
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ardcp, I understand how you feel.

There were two pretty significant mistakes in my custom kitchen cabinets. The cabinets were gorgeous, the install was fantastic, Dan the Cabinet Man had been nothing but wonderful through the whole process - but those cabinets were WRONG.

I felt terrible about calling Dan about the mistakes. Horrible. Guilty. I spent the whole evening trying to talk myself into settling for what I had. Luckily a friend came over to see - and she helped me see that I deserved to get what I had asked for.

I'm sure Dan wasn't thrilled about having to fix my cabinets, but he checked the plans and saw that I was right. He quickly, willingly, and cheerfully fixed the mistakes, and reassured me that his primary goal was for me to be happy.

We live in a small town, and Dan doesn't advertise - word of mouth is sufficient to keep him very busy. That may play a part, but I think a bigger part was that he truly DID want me to be happy.

Hopefully your granite fabricator will feel the same way, and give you exactly what you want.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 5:46PM
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You are taking this personally, believe me, your fabricator is not. To him this is all business.

He has to get a certain amount of jobs completed without mistakes to stay in business. He was probably about due. This is nothing more to him than his light bill or the piece Jimmy dropped and broke; all a cost of doing business.

Change your perspective to his and all will be well.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 7:37PM
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annalyn123-the granite is crema antartida. i hadn't heard of it but it could be called something else too

    Bookmark   April 25, 2014 at 9:52PM
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anyone who has install knowledge please let me know what you think. i was antiundermount for 3 reasons, sink failure, 33" base cab is too small for a good size sink and would have to be cut into to make the sink fit and concern about chipping the sink edge. trebruchet has advised that chips are fixable so i guess i am ok with that hot button. however when i discussed undermount failure with the installers, they assured me that they use silicone and a mechanical support to ensure the sink won't fall. i looked under the sink today with a flashlight(after the plumber hooked upmthe faucet) and the flange to the right of the sink is resting on the sides of the sink base and possibly the adjacent cab but on the other side i only see 2 shims on either end of the sink. is that sufficient to support that side? it is possible there is some other support i can't see but i am doubtful as the sink is too large for the base and the bowls are very close to each side of the cabinet.
thanks all!
ps the sales rep said the owner would call me yesterday and no call yet. not feeling like customer service is a priority.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 10:42AM
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What supports the two shims? Cabinet? Adhesive?

Pictures, please.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 10:47AM
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the other thing that i find irritating is the way the sink is braced between the counter and the cabinet sides, there is no way that in event of a sink crack or leak, the sink can be removed without removing the counter as well. which was another huge concern for me since removing the granite to replace a sink would be costly, i am assuming,

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 10:48AM
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oops sorry i wasn't clear. it looks like the sink flange on the left side is being supported by a shim balanced between the cab side and the bottom of the sink. so when looking up under the sink, i see a shim, then part of the sink? and the granite on top of that. it is hard to see on that side because the dishwasher is on that side. on the other side there are no shims and i can see the edge of the sink resting on the side of the cabinet. the sink base is 33" and the sink is 34.5? but the sink is not centered inside the cabinet so there is more space between the cab wall and the sink bowl on the left side than the right.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 11:24AM
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Sophie Wheeler

Functionally, undermount sinks trump topmounted ones every day of the week and twice on Sundays. You lucked out and got a great upgrade as long as they mounted it properly. You need to provide pictures to see if that is the case. The chip is no big deal and will be covered by the backsplash. Overall, overthinking is ruining your renovation experience here.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 11:39AM
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I took some pics but it is hard for me to tell what is going on for support. It looks to me like they cut the sink down as well but as I said I really don't know what I am looking at

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 12:02PM
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Another pic of the dishwasher side where I can see shims

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 12:03PM
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You worry too much. I have had undermounted sinks for years and years - never had a chip (ok, mine were positive reveal, but still, never had a chip in the granite anywhere) and never had a sink failure (really, how big of an issue is this?). My sink cabinet is 33" and the sink is very large (30", but its a very large single bowl).

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 12:10PM
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sjhockeyfan- " you worry too much" i have to agree:) i will worry this thing to death until i am convinced it was done properly - unfortunately a huge personality flaw:( i figure trebruchet repairs sinks that fail so it happens to someone. to further freak me out i just saw a post from a gw er that has a crack in their moen granite composite sink which is under mounted with a funky cut out so not super easy to swap out. my sink base is 33" like yours but the silgranite sink is also 33" so one side of the sink is wedged between the adjacent cab and the granite so it can't be removed without taking the counter off. blanco recommends 35" cabinet for under mount but only 33" for top mount which is why i bought it.
sincerely hope you are right and it is fine because it will be costly to remove

    Bookmark   April 26, 2014 at 2:14PM
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