Hayward pump trouble

tonys_2009December 19, 2010

I have a Hayward two speed pump that is a little over 2 years old. The pump sometimes won't switch to high speed. I can go to service mode on my Jandy controls and push the button and hear the relay click and I might get lucky and it switches over. Sometimes it won't and other days it works just fine. Any suggestions what to look at?

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poolguynj

Do you have the two speed relay in the controller?

When going to High speed, does the pump stop or does it stay in low speed?

Scott

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 6:34AM
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tonys_2009

Yes I have the 2 speed relay. I can hear it clicking. The pump just stays in low speed and then all of a sudden it will kick into high. This can take up to 30 seconds after the relay clicks.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 9:21AM
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poolguynj

Bad relay.

Scott

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 11:00AM
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tonys_2009

Is there a way to test it? They are pretty expensive.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 2:09PM
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poolguynj

Do you have an ohm meter? Kill the breaker supplying pump power, disconnect the power from the line side and see if you get 0 ohms when high speed is enabled between the line and load sides. Sounds like either a dirty or burnt contactor.

Replacements are between $120 and $150 on line. Not cheap but not that expensive either.

Scott

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 2:36PM
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tonys_2009

So does the relay default to low speed and once energized go over to high?

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 3:57PM
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poolguynj

This depends on how you have the controller configured. The controller sends a signal to one of the two relays in the unit at a time.

Scott

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 5:14PM
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trhought

tonys 2009....sounds like a bad 2 speed relay to me...the contacts are sticking causing the sluggish response.

Interestingly enough, I had this problem last week with my 4 year old Aqualink. With the Aqualink box open I tapped on the 2 speed relay and it switched to high speed instantly telling me it was the relay.

Once you have the relay out, there's a part number on it...google it and you can find a like-for-like replacement from online retailers for about $40-50.

If you want to save even more money and don't mind tinkering with this kind of stuff...check out Digikey. I found a relay with higher current capability than the Jandy OEM relay. The catch is it's a surface mount relay that must be modified to accept the existing flag connectors from the Aqualink...it also needs insulated as it does not have a cover.

At a price of ~$2 each, I bought 4 of them and the first one is working fine so far....and I have 3 spares for future use. I have two 2 speed pumps and the other original relay is working OK still.

Hope this helps.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 9:04PM
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tonys_2009

So you just replaced the relay and didn't buy the kit? I got home after dark tonight but I did notice that the motor is now making a ringing almost metallic sound when it does run on hi. Wasn't doing this in the past.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 9:08PM
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poolguynj

Bearings

Scott

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 9:26PM
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tonys_2009

Would the bearings cause it not to run on high or do you think I have multiple problems. The pump is under warranty but the controls aren't. Thanks for all of your help on this.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 9:30PM
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trhought

tonys 2009...not sure about the sound...I've never heard a bad pump bearing before but would imagine it sounds like you described.

Maybe listening to the pump with your ear close to it could help you determine where on the pump the noise is coming from and help with the diagnosis.

Regarding the relay, yes..I just replaced the relay and did not buy the kit. As far as I can tell, the kit just inlcudes a mounting bracket and wires that connect the relay to the main pump relay. You already have the mounting bracket and the wires, so all that needs replaced is the relay itself.

Hope this helps.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 10:48PM
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tonys_2009

Ok I thought I had this fixed. Back in the spring I bout a new relay from an electronics store. Same tyco part as the original. Worked great until today. Now the high speed won't come on. I'm still a little confused on how te motor works. The 2 speed relay sends power independently down the 2 load wires. If low always works even when the relay clicks its not the motor right? It's the relay? I noticed there are 2 sets of no and nc contacts on the relay. Can I use the other set if the contacts are bad on the first set?

    Bookmark   July 29, 2011 at 9:57PM
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tonys_2009

I swapped the high and low speed loads at the relay and it only works on high now. I can't believe how unreliable they are. Only lasted 2 months but for 30 bucks each i might buy 2 this time to have a spare.

    Bookmark   July 29, 2011 at 10:42PM
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trhought

tonys 2009...here's a link to the relays I have...the price has went up to $2.93 ea...very affordable.

I've had one of these is operation since December and no problems. These relays, even though smaller, have higher current capability than the OEM Jandy relay...must be the contact design. I bought 4 originally and haven't had to use any of the others yet.

Incidentally, I have two 2-speed pumps and the other OEM Jandy relay has been in operation for 5 years without any problems.

As I mentioned in my post above, the Digikey relays are surface mount relays but the legs interface nicely to the existing flag connectors on the existing Jandy wires. There is no box to isolate the relay from surroundings, so I used several layers of duct tape to build a box...very redneck, but the results have been fine. I've oriented the relay inside the Aqualink panel so that the bottom and top of the duct tape box is open to allow heat to dissipate.

Hope this helps.

Here is a link that might be useful: Relay

    Bookmark   July 30, 2011 at 1:21PM
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tonys_2009

Wow that's cheap. I'll order one Monday. Would you happen to have a picture of the way you set it up?

    Bookmark   July 30, 2011 at 11:16PM
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trhought

tonys 2009....it's noting fancy really....the relay is lightweight and is basically supported in mid air by the wires themselves. Orient the relay (bend the wires that are attached to it) so the legs of the relay are pointing down as it was designed to be oriented. I then wrapped duct tape horizontally around the outside of the relay to provide some insulation to surroundings. The duct tape is only about an inch in height...enough to protect the bottom of the relay which is where all the electrical connections are made. The top of the relay (where the coil is) is left open to allow heat to dissipate upwards. Leave the bottom of the relay open also to allow the air around the coil to move upwards. This is a surface mount relay that was designed to be horizontal with the legs down. Just keep the relay oriented this way and allow air to move freely upwards and it will operate just fine.

Fro the electrical connections...the female connectors on the existing Jandy wires will slide onto the legs on the bottom of the relay. I only used one side of the female connector and crimped it down slightly to make the sliding fit onto the legs tighter. I did it this way to make removal of the relay easier down the road. This is how it still is today and I haven't messed with it.

Once you get the relay, this should make more sense.

Hope this helps.

    Bookmark   July 31, 2011 at 11:17AM
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tonys_2009

I stopped by Grainger this morning and purchased a relay. It should work. I think I can make this one mount on the original bracket. Thanks for all of you help.

Here is a link that might be useful: Relay

    Bookmark   August 1, 2011 at 9:22AM
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trhought

tonys 2009...interesting choice. Hope this works OK.

I steered away from the totally enclosed relay designs like this one to keep the coil temperatures lower. High temperature is what reduces the life of the coil, which is what failed on my original Jandy relay.

Normally, relays fail due to contacts welding. The fact that the Jandy relay failed due to the coil was a clue that temperature plays a role in early failures.

The open relay design allows for air cooling. The Aqualink panel itself is totally enclosed so the only cooling the relay has is by air moving upwards when the coil gets hot. The Grainger enclosed design has no cooling allowance.

Plus, the open relay design I chose has a smaller coil that minimizes heat generation.

This was my thought process for what it's worth...hopefully this relay works OK...guess if it doesn't you're only out $15 bucks plus the hassle of replacing it again.

Hope this helps.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 1:53PM
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tonys_2009

It was close and that was the only one they had in stock. I'm still going to order the one you showed me. It's so hot I didn't want to keep the pump off waiting on the big brown truck.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 9:05PM
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trhought

tonys 2009...yeah...I checked locally also before finding the right one online...fortunately, I had another relay from our second 2 speed pump that I switched out until big brown showed up. It hit 105 here in Louisiana today...I guess a good test for the relays inside the Aqualink panel...so far so good.

Just curious...did your Jandy relay fail due to the coil also...mine had a visible burn mark on the coil when it failed.

Thanks.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 11:31PM
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tonys_2009

I assume the contacts welded. The NO were stuck closed. The coil did click.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2011 at 9:46AM
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trhought

tonys 2009....Thanks.

    Bookmark   August 4, 2011 at 10:00AM
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