Trouble Free Pool forum - Beware

womanownedAugust 5, 2013

Some of you know that I get on this forum occasionally to answer questions about pool building. Today I went on the Trouble Free pool forum and proceeded to offer my advice and suggestions to pool questions on there. Two of the posts were regarding sanitation types to which I offered my advice relating to chlorine only pools and ozone being an alternative. Next thing I know, I was kicked off the forum within an hour of joining! The reason I was given is that Trouble Free is a chlorine forum and the moderators do not believe in the usefulness of ozone. Very narrow thinking, I would say. Just be careful if you are looking for advice on that forum, you will only hear what the moderators want you to hear. I am so glad that Garden Web allows free discussions!

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just bought a home with a 40x20ft in ground pool need to drain it but a heard it would rise. What do I do to stop this

    Bookmark   August 5, 2013 at 4:02PM
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This post was edited by cbink on Thu, Aug 15, 13 at 15:51

    Bookmark   August 5, 2013 at 5:50PM
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Greghain: Congrats on your new home and pool!

I'd suggest you'd post this again under a new heading as it's going to get buried in this thread.

To do this, click: Post a Message (it's right above the "Pools and Spas" title). In the Subject of Posting field, type in something like: "To drain or not to drain an inground pool" or "About to drain my inground pool myself". That ought to get a lot of hits because it's definitely something you SHOULDN'T do by yourself unless you know what you're doing. Yes, it can pop. Hydrostatic pressure and all that.

Write your question in the Message box. Then you must click Preview and if it looks correct, click Submit.

Good luck!

    Bookmark   August 5, 2013 at 7:00PM
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Greghain...all you have to do is drill sizeable holes into the gunite floor in order to relieve the pressure that would cause it to lift out of the ground. I recommend you hire a professional, though, to do that.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 11:02AM
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@cbink...I agree with you. The activity on that site is much more brisk than here. Too bad they posture themselves as they do. I also posted multiple responses to people asking questions on subjects unrelated to sanitation.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 11:05AM
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My initial reaction as to the deletions on TFP was that if you registered then at the same time you posted on multiple threads about ozone, they might have taken you for an "ozone spammer-in-disguise".

But probably not if they told you the reason was because they are a "chlorine" forum.

I'd say a fairly common sense negative with ozone is that it only sanitizes as water actually passes through the ozone generator. If the pump isn't running, if water isn't flowing, if the ozone generator isn't powered, there is no sanitation occurring. So even with ozone you still need something else, and that something else is usually chlorine.

When doing my own pool, I was initially excited about ozone. As I educated myself I realized that even with ozone I'd need chlorine. For simplicity's sake I dropped the ozone and just use chlorine.

I will say where ozone could be viable is with the new low-flow pumps. If someone had a single speed pump the pump might only run for a portion of the day and something like ozone would be impractical. With the newer VS and VF pumps, some people are running at very low flows for 18-24 hours a day. With the longer running pump time other sanitation methods become more viable.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 12:37PM
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I am a moderator at the mentioned forum.

TFP is not a "chlorine forum". However, we will not allow opinions about ozone (or anything else for that matter) that conflict with the scientific facts to be posted without being challenged.

Womanowned was not banned because she mentioned ozone, she was banned because she continued to post disinformation about chlorine and ozone after she was warned not to do so. She also has a financial stake in the widespread acceptance of ozone systems, since she apparently works for a pool builder that pushes them on their clients.

At TFP we do not allow anyone to push products that they sell, be it ozone, chlorine, or anything else for that matter. We will gladly discuss anything pool-related, but that openness must extend both ways.

1 Like    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 6:24PM
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"At TFP we do not allow anyone to push products that they sell, be it ozone, chlorine, or anything else for that matter. We will gladly discuss anything pool-related, but that openness must extend both ways."

So pool builders who sell pools cannot talk about pool products and equipment, or pool related items? I'll remember to ask a chef and a painter for recommendations the next time I want to buy a new car.

    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 6:46PM
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I'm not sure whether you misunderstand me, or if that is merely an immature snarky retort. Let me give you the benefit of the doubt and clarify.

At TFP, a builder is free to talk about products they sell or service, if it is directly in response to a question asked by somebody interested in that product or service. We have many pool service pros, a few builders, and a handful of retail representatives that frequent our site and help people with equipment and construction questions. They are welcome to contribute (and their contributions are often invaluable) as long as they are not posting with the sole intent to sell their products.

1 Like    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 7:24PM
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I find it amusing that the moderator from TFP's comment above states that I was kicked off because my comments were contrary to scientific facts. I can provide a lot of science to suggest that ozone is an effective sanitizer. That's why the Olympics has used ozone for years and even city water systems in some areas have gone to this method. Next time you buy "purified drinking water" at the store, look at how it was purified...often it is via ozone. If you want to talk about scientific facts, then let's talk about the science of a strictly man made chlorine pool. Just Google it and you can see for yourself how harmful it can be.

I have no financial stake in using ozone, contrary to his accusation above. I build all types and actually make more money on salt water pools. My experience is that ozone with a back-up chlorinator is a low expense alternative to man made chlorine and less expensive and not corrosive to stone like salt water can be. I build all types, but consider my duty to inform my customers and others to consider ozone generated through UV light as an alternative.

My point is just that there is more than one view or approach to sanitation. I live in America where free discussion is allowed in most forums.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2013 at 9:51AM
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^ agree completely.

I wonder if you bought their test kits if they'd let you back on :)

    Bookmark   September 13, 2013 at 12:20PM
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quote" I wonder if you bought their test kits if they'd let you back on :) "quote


They're a great group over there and I feel bad I haven't peeked in or posted overe there in a long long time.

Kathy, I know you like ozone a lot and I love the fact that you use it as an additional oxidizer, it just can't be defined as the primary oxidizer because it doesn't generate enough grams even if you run the pool 24/7

When I build large natatorium competition pool and we place a very large commerciial ozonator we still put in an orp/ph controller with a bleach tank and acid drum and keep a much lower FC level.
One of these would do for a residential pool as a primary but would not be cost efficient due to high price.

And you are entirely correct as most forums allow free discussion as long as no spamming is occuring.

It's great to chat with you guys and girls again!!!
Been a long time, LOL!!!

See ya,

    Bookmark   September 14, 2013 at 10:01PM
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huskyridor...Disagree on whether it can be a primary oxidizer, but no need to debate that here.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 8:55PM
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Yes you should debate it on trouble free pool! :)

    Bookmark   September 17, 2013 at 8:17AM
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quote" Yes you should debate it on trouble free pool ! " quote


Kathy, it's OK to disagree, we all have our own thoughts about things that may be different than others when discussing the same subject.
The great thing about forums is that the readers get to see multiple takes on that subject.

I do think that they shouldn't have booted you off if you didn't spam the membership but that's the admins final decision.

Kind of like when I got booted here as Huskyrider 7 or 8 years ago for spamming and TRUST ME I didn't, just as I'm certain you didn't either.

See ya,

    Bookmark   September 18, 2013 at 8:52PM
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I told them cyanuric acid and Trichlor should not be used in indoor pools or in any spa.

I posted quotes from the Aquatic Facilities Operator Handbook, Certified Pool Operator Handbook, links to health department and other .gov websites such as CDC and links to studies on, .edu sites.

I proved a dozen different ways the advice they were giving was simply wrong. They booted me, blocked my IP address and permanently banned my account.

Several of my peers have speculated they probably make a lot of money selling unnecessary chemicals to their local customers and just spew the same misinformation on the Internet.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2013 at 2:26AM
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I enjoy both Forums, but TFP gets a lot more action. I find some of the posts above odd, first they only sell a test kit, nothing else so they do not kick anyone off because they want to sell stuff. As a matter a fact it seems to be the contrary, they want to save everyone money from what I have read.

I still do not have my pool, but I utilize both Forums to do research, due to this one being so dead I rarely come on here and longer.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2013 at 8:10PM
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Trouble Free Pool is only interested in promoting their own BBB system and selling products that they get commission on through links or clicks from their sight. They are not interested in a true forum or an exchange of ideas. They are constantly putting down pool dealers and stores. They are only trying to make sure that pool owners do not use their local pool stores for service and supplies. (Because then they wouldn't make anything off of them.) They openly state that all pool companies are all out to lie to them, cheat them and only get their money. They are the only true way...the saviors of pool owners everywhere. lol Their system does keep the water clear...but clear is FAR from balanced or sanitized. They are a joke to anyone who really knows pools. Not because their ideas or methods are bad - they're tolerable -but because they are closed minded and not forthcoming about their own motives while spouting off about how bad their competition is. Do we make money off our customers? We sure do! Do we gouge them? No! Do we need to talk down anyone else to get a customer to work with us? Never!

    Bookmark   November 12, 2013 at 10:28PM
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The post above is pretty hokey. TFP promotes the use of bleach, borax, backing soda and Mule Team 20. That is pretty much it. I am not sure how you figure they get kickbacks for the sale of those chemicals that they recommend you buy from your local supermarket. They put down dealers and pool stores because pool stores will sell you baking soda and Mule Team 20 rebranded as ALK UP and PH UP and mark them up significantly. Pool stores also generally push chlorine tabs and have no clue that CYA will eventually max out in a pool sanitized by tabs and then be unmanageable. TFC's root argument about alternative sanitation methods is valid and is supported by posts in above in this same thread: "If alternate sanitation methods like ozone still require chlorine to work then why use them?. Save the money and just use chlorine." BTW the person who sells the TFC testing kit is not the same person who owns TFC. And if you see the price of the TFC test kit I can assure you he is not getting rich on them. Compare it to the K2006.

1 Like    Bookmark   November 14, 2013 at 10:43PM
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keithw I agree 100%, I just started looking into a pool last year, I plan to buy in the spring. I stopped posting here becuase it is so dead. They have never tried to sell me any product, the advice I have gotten at TFP has been tremendous. You hear story after story of Pool Stores ripping off customers, can you blame them for telling people to stay away? That forum has been unreal for me, I would have no idea what I was doing with-out it.

I also agree their test kits are a Great Value, no chance they are getting rich off it, and they even give you a coupon for it when you join to make it an even better deal.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2013 at 7:31PM
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Ketihw, I agree with your post 110%. Most of us belong to both forums. Lots of great info on both sides. Thumbs up....

    Bookmark   November 16, 2013 at 6:15AM
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Just an observation.

Trouble Free Pool forum is a terrific forum if you are manufacturing or selling chlorine and maybe cyanuric acid.

Just have a read of some of the regular posters and how many times they post on the forum.

The speed at which they pick up on anyone that dares post any information re alternatives to chlorine.

Within a matter of minutes there will be a reply from a member, which will include links to various convoluted previous posts, which hail the power of chlorine and dismiss anything else as pseudoscience and snake oil.

Unfortunately the majority of the evidence that they use is anecdotal, I have yet to see evidence posted on the Trouble Free Pool forum that shows chlorine in a laboratory test having anywhere the kill rates they claim.

Remembering a swimming pool is mainly in use in warm weather with high UV. This is the real test and as pool owners know there are many variables when maintaining a chlorine pool. Most of the evidence that has been used on Trouble Free pool forum to support chlorine as a sanitizer is far removed from the operating parameters in the average pool.

Chlorine best profits for the manufacturers is on a volume-based recurring sales that needs high maintenance and additional suspect chemicals to stabilize the chlorine in the pool, cyanuric acid, or a feel good name stabilizer.

Chlorine is a great product for the chemical companies, its a weak and inefficient sanitizer and requires loads of it. And its being promoted and protected vigilantly.

DDT and Asbestos were great products not so long ago?

    Bookmark   July 14, 2014 at 3:18AM
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Not sure what the point of your post is. Yes they recommend Chlorine as a pool sanitizing agent. It has been used successfully for a long, long time to maintain pools and overall is the most cost effective way to do so. What are you suggesting that someone should use instead???

    Bookmark   July 14, 2014 at 7:53AM
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Man made chlorine is very bad for skin, hair, allergies. Salt is an alternative as well as ozone.

    Bookmark   July 18, 2014 at 9:46PM
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