Experience with these vintage-y sinks? Bayview, Gilford etc?

marcoloMarch 19, 2012

So, if you've peeked at the Appliance forum, you've read all about my search for a vintage-looking range. Now I want to see if I can find a vintage-looking sink.

Does anybody have any personal experiences with any of the sinks below?

Things to know:

- Base cabinet sizes haven't been determined--I'm still waiting for a proposal from the architect! I'm just collecting a list of everything I want to consider so it can be designed around

- I am not a huge fan of apron sinks

- I am not a fan of huge sinks

- I cannot imagine that gigantic double baseboard reproduction sink would ever fit anywhere in any layout I would ever have

Kohler Gilford apron-front wall-mount kitchen sink

Is it crazy to use china as a kitchen sink material?

Vitreous china

30"L x 22"W

Basin depth: 8-5/8"

Wall-mount or self-rimming installation

Available 24"L x 22"W

Kohler Bayview self-rimming utility sink

Is this just too deep for a kitchen sink?

Cast iron

25-1/2"L x 24"W x 11"D

Sink models available with a two-hole faucet drilling in backsplash and with a three-hole faucet drilling on top of backsplash

For self-rimming countertop installation; sink model available with black painted underside for installation in optional wood sink stand

Kohler Cape Dory undercounter

Cast iron

Exterior dimensions: 33"L x 22"W

Interior dimensions: 29"L x 15"W

Basin depth: 9"

Single-basin design

Comes in tile-in version

Kohler Whitehaven

29-11/16" x 21-9/16"

Sized for perfect side-to-side fit to 30" industry standard base cabinetry

Short Integral Apron allows for retrofit to existing cabinetry (6-11/16" apron)

Basin Depth 9"

Single Basin

2" Basin Slope toward drain minimizes water pooling

Offset drain placement

KOHLER Cast Iron Material

At least 80% recycled content

Guaranteed not to chip, crack or burn

Riverby single bowl top-mount kitchen sink w/ bottom basin rack

Single bowl

9-inch bowl depth

One faucet hole

Offset drain placement

Includes custom-fit stainless steel bottom basin rack

Enameled Cast Iron

80% recycled material


Bakersfield undercounter sink with Installation kit

With its classic design, the Bakersfield sink coordinates beautifully with a full range of kitchen decors. The single bowl offers plenty of space for large pots and pans. Crafted from enameled cast iron, this sink resists scratching, burning, and staining for years of beauty and reliable performance.

Exterior dimensions: 31" x 22"

Interior dimensions: 27" x 15"

Basin depth: 8"

Undercounter installation with included undercounter installation kit

Five-hole oversized faucet drilling

Constructed of KOHLER Cast Iron material

Durable - Guaranteed* not to chip, crack or burn

Nothing is Easier to Clean**- Features a smooth, non-porous enamel surface

And finally, the most authentic choice possible for a '20s house:

Sandford Cast Iron Kitchen Sink with Drain Board and Apron - 42"

A first of its kind, this sink is a new reproduction of a classic drain board kitchen sink.

A first of its kind, this sink is a new reproduction of a classic drain board kitchen sink.

Made of heavy cast iron with a hard enamel coating.

Mounts to wall with included mounting brackets. (Bolts not included.)

Overall dimensions: 42.13" L x 20.87" W (front to back) x 16.14" H (+- 1/2").

Left hand drain board; right hand sink.

3-1/2" drain size.

Drain sold separately.

8" faucet centers.

Crated weight is 234 lbs.

Includes crate charge, shipping, and lift gate service within the contiguous 48 states.

Any firsthand experiences with these things would be great.

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Normally, I wouldn't post first, but I know you'll get many, many responses.

I just have to say PICK THE LAST ONE!!! It's perfect for your 1920s home :)

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 8:55PM
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The last one is like, wowzers. Serious sink. It certainly screams 'vintage' to me...as does the first one which is a more petite version, but I know nothing about how vitreous china will hold up in the kitchen....
I can say that I have the Bakersfield, and I love it. I have the grid, which brings the depth up about an inch - I'm going to have to get in touch with Kohler about the chipping/cracking thing...my sink definitely has some scratches from before I acquired the grid (which is almost my favorite thing in my kitchen).

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 9:08PM
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No experience here but I say the last one - yes, the last one.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 9:08PM
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Marcolo, my grandmother had a white drain board style kitchen sink with the wall mounted faucet and soap/sponge holder very similar to the last sink in your post in her home which also had beautiful inlaid parquet wood floors and plaster ceilings with all the artisan detail and cove molding but no fireplace. . oh the memories of spending time with her in that kitchen. She was both a great cook and a wonderful baker and had every holiday and no DW so that sink got a workout! That kitchen also had a big built in dish closet with hooks that she hung her coffee cups from. She loved that sink set up and I know missed it when she moved into a more modern home.

Do you have a preference for a wall mounted faucet?

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 9:28PM
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Well I have a vintage rather than vintagey sink - at least for the moment. It looks like the last one except no drainboard - just a 36" shallow single bowl with huge backsplash thingey and a rounded rim. Unfortunately the B/S means it won't fit into standard cabinetry under the existing window so I thinks it's off to a potting shed in the near future. Anyway I have another issue with the B/S - which is the pipes behind the B/S are inaccessible and the sink is ummm very very heavy. On the other hand - I like that there isn't that bit of counter between the sink and B/S where puddles can sit. I also find the large single bowl very adaptable for different needs - I will miss it. FWIW I'm thinking of the Riverby as a replacement.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 9:33PM
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Circus Peanut

M --

Much as the Sandford is gorgeous, having used many vintage sinks in my life, I prefer the Gilford for its depth.

But you do strike me as an enameled castiron kinda guy: I know you've been vocal about your disapproval of the perceived fragility of fireclay sinks, and vitreous china has an even lower heat tolerance than fireclay. Just fyi.

(That said, I love my fireclay sink and we abuse it with impunity. Gallons and gallons of boiled impunity.)

Whichever you choose, stick with a wallmounted faucet. They're brill for not collecting drips and gunk.

Don't throw anything at me, I haven't been keeping up -- have you explicitly ruled out an actual (smaller, non-dual-drainboarded) vintage sink? I know some very good sources up here, north of you.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 9:39PM
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I haven't ruled out a real vintage sink, but until I really buy one I can't pass along the specs to an architect. I like ones that are similar to the Sandford but have two bowls, one deep. But I think there are problems using a GD with those.

No question the Sandford looks best, and as a reproduction I think it's deeper than the originals. But whether or not I expand my kitchen the sink wall will still be relatively short, so losing the top drawer for that stretch may not be worth it.

The advantage of something like the Bayview is that it's self rimming. That isn't so convenient for sweeping in water and crumbs, but it gives me more confidence that if it scratches all to bloody heck I can swap it out for a new one.

Yeah the whole vitreous china thing is bizarre to me. It's like using a bathroom sink in the kitchen.

    Bookmark   March 19, 2012 at 10:20PM
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Circus Peanut

What are your actual preferences, given all the space in the world?

Drainboard/no drainboard?
Single or double bowl?

I rather like this type and considered them seriously (click image for page link):

Nevan drop-in Fireclay:

Whitehaus quatro alcove:

Then there's Real Vintage in your beloved pale yellow; I'm a frequent searcher and this one appears to be a good deal on a sink in absolutely excellent vintage condition. Bonus: reputable seller right down there by you in MA.

Of course if you had the dosh, I'd steer you towards a remake of the classic German Silver sink in the original and undeniable sexy slinky design:

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 9:03AM
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Who's the local vintage sink supplier? We could take a look.

As I said, the sink wall may not get much larger even if I expand. Currently I have a 30" cabinet with a D-shaped sink around 25" (too lazy to go measure right now). The look of the sink is quite wrong but it is a very efficient use of space, almost a bit too deep. I think apron sinks and large sinks can be overwhelming in a space, so I don't want anything enormous. Honestly the drainboard sink is cute but seems like a waste of space to me, especially since the drainboard eliminates a cabinet needed for the DW. I'd have to have a cabinet custom built to reclaim some storage below it.

The sink you posted seems to have two sinks with a drainboard over one, and if the DW issue could be resolved that could work. The right side (I'm assuming) would mostly function as my prep sink while the other would be for cleanup, except after meals when we'd probably use both. Not sure I'd do yellow, though; probably saving that for the cabs.

What I do want to avoid is a super-shallow vintage sink. Friend of mine badly burned her foot pouring pasta water into a shallow '20s sink--it all splashed back out again. The reproductions are a bit deeper, and some of the two-sink versions have one nice deep bowl.

If I do an undermount I can make it vintage enough by using a front panel slotted for ventilation, and then that panel could disguise one of those cool Blum drawers with room for cleanup junk. However, the issue is finding something I like to fit into a smaller sink cabinet if that's what I end up with again. The side-drain undermounts are too big.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 9:37AM
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I know you are not a fan of apron sinks, but I love my Kohler Dickenson because it is 8" deep. I think it is the perfect depth for using and not having to bend over.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 10:45AM
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The Dickenson is a good sink.

Belfast sinks don't really fit the era. I was trying to figure out whether I could get half-legs (pilasters) on the front to suggest twenties sinks, or even do some kind of backsplash treatment to suggest the integrated kind, but couldn't think of anything that wouldn't look too retrofit or require too much $$$ labor.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 10:55AM
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Marcolo, I have the Kohler Cape Dory in the drop-in self-rimming style (the size is the Cape Dory, but the style is what you show for the Bakersfield). It's been in and in use for about 15 months now. It is our clean-up sink, so I don't pour hot pasta water in, but I do bang big pots around in it. It's roomy, just deep enough to wash dang near anything but not so deep as to require bending (I'm 5'4.5" on a good day). It's set in a soapstone counter and so far, I don't find any real accumulation of gunk around the rim and find it easy enough to wipe around.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 11:22AM
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Thanks! Good to know. My only issue is the center drain, which wastes some space underneath.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 11:36AM
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That makes sense. One of my favorite sinks (and kitchens) on Gardenweb has always been Arlosmom. I love that curved cabinet below it, too!

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 12:03PM
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Yes, the center drain is a space waster. But FWIW I have found that using drawers under the sink cabinet seems to give me a whole lot more accessible space than any other arrangement. And by placing short items in the drawers where the drain and disposal drop down, I can still fit a lot in there. A pic, in case it's helpful:

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 12:35PM
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Would trash fit under there, or would it hit the GD?

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 12:49PM
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DOn't know, Marcolo. I'll give it a try tonight and let you know.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 1:19PM
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Circus Peanut

M, what are your thoughts on using a corner sink? My neighbor's still got hers in her 1921 bungalow and it works very nicely & is actually quite a space-saver on a short wall.

Something like this puppy only has one leg and would still provide space for trash underneath, no?

(click image for auction link)

For that matter, you could easily use one of the smaller sinks meant to go on top of metal cabinetry:

Or, omg, a copper version:

I'll stop now. Will email with names of various good salvage places if you ever do desire to make a run up this way.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 2:11PM
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Probably no layout I'd have would put a sink in the corner. You're just looking for an excuse to post more copper!

I know somebody here has the Bayview, but I forget who that is. It's not quite curvy enough to be 20s fabulous but might do the trick. But that sucker is deep!

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 3:05PM
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Circuspeanut- That pale yellow sink is beautiful!

I really like Laura Calder's sink...I wish they would make something like this, in a reproduction. From Fairy tale cottage

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 4:05PM
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Marcolo - the Sanford drainboard sink was top on my list until I realized that the bowl size was 16"x19", and that wasn't going to be enough for me. The Clarion double drainboard sink has a larger sized bowl, but I don't think I can give up that much counter space (5ft wide). So, personally, I'm leaning toward one of the Kohler's --> Cape Dory or Bakersfield.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 5:43PM
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Just found the specs online--it is also only 7" deep.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 5:51PM
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FWIW, I just installed an aftermarket rev-a-shelf two 27 qt. trash pull out under my Bakersfield (and that's just the right side). Fits perfectly. I am so excited about the pull out trash, I can't even tell you. I have plenty of room on the left side of the almost centered disposal (pipe is more on the left) for another pull out. Just haven't figured out which one yet.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 7:18PM
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Marcolo... single trash can would fit easily on either side of the disposal with Cape Dory. I have a fairly small GD...Insinkerator Evo Compact, I think it was called. With it, there is 14" of space from the edge of the GD to the side wall of the cabinet.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 9:26PM
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Awesome info. Thanks so much, melissastar.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 9:33PM
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I noticed a photo of the Bayview with faucets installed in the traditional position, rather than as a periscope. Much better.

    Bookmark   March 20, 2012 at 10:33PM
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I also dislike apron sinks and, while I love the look of vintage, it wasn't going to work for my everyday needs.

I installed the Bakersfield overmount in a very small condo kitchen and it was great. I could wash my 13 lb Schnauzer in it, but it still didn't take up too much space. Yes, washing dogs in my kitchen sink might be crude to some but haven't you ever found something in tupperware in the back of your fridge.....

I digress. This time around I have more room and was looking at the Cape Dory. I found Ceco sinks locally and ended up with one of these instead. It's the same dimensions as the Cape Dory without predrilled holes (for undermount). Also the drain is in the center, but towards the back. Finally Ceco (UM 74, I think) started making sinks in the 1920's so I figure at least the company is in the right ballpark. Oh, and my 6 1/2 lb Yorkie could have a pool party in there!

Check them out...they have a bunch of different sizes and styles.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ceco Sinks

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 10:42AM
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oops, marcolo, I missspoke (miswrote?). There is 14" to the right of the GD, but only 10" on the left of the trap. Forgot that the GD wasn't the only thing dangling under the sink. Still room enough, I think for one waste can on either side, if needed.

    Bookmark   March 21, 2012 at 10:58AM
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So, was the concensus that it would be dumb to use the vitreous china Gilford as a kitchen sink (especially if one wants a disposal)? Is this material similar to the fireclay so many people seem to have issues with?

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 7:24PM
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I love the Sanford sink and Arlosmom's sink! Unfortunately I cannot fit that style into my kitchen or I would be on the hunt for one! If you can work it in, I would go for the Sanford. I do have a vintage sink in my laundry room, but don't know if the style fits the era you are trying to capture. (Picture below) It is a Kohler cast iron sink. It sits on the cabinet tops, so you could still have it go over your dishwasher or whatever cabinet you wanted. I find these old sinks with drainboards so practical and utilitarian! I love it!

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 9:12PM
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Marcolo- did you decide on the faucet. Some of these demand a specific typed faucet like wall mounted or deck mounted.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 11:17PM
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What do you want to be the focal point in your kitchen? I've not read your post on a vintage stove but most of them are large and dominant. If you don't like apron sinks and won't use a drain board then consider a simple undermount sink. I would go with function for my sink. A single or double undermount would be less $$. There are lots of ways to get the vintage feel without making everything authentic. Here are some vintage sink cabinets, note the front of the cabinet doors. They give a vintage look but could be used with any kind of sink.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 4:55PM
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Thanks for asking.

I ended up snagging a Kohler Riverby. I was afraid it would look too mod with the off center drain and the sloping bottom, but it looks fine and it's square enough to echo the old sinks like in the photos above.

Wouldn't you know it, immediately afterward I found a vintage sink online that would've fit just fine on my short sink run. However, I console myself that the old sink was only 5.5" deep, and I remember a friend burning her foot from dumping out pasta in one of those.

needinfo1, porcelain is like a bathroom sink or toilet bowl. It's even more delicate than fireclay. I can't fathom why Kohler doesn't produce this sink in cast iron. I suppose if somebody had a kitchen layout where the Gilford could be used as a prep sink--with no heavy pots in it--and an undermount sink somewhere else for cleanup, it might work. Some people have more guts than I do.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 10:36AM
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Even more delicate thtn fireclay! That definitely eliminates this idea then. Too bad too because I like the look and probably would have bitten if it weren't for the material. And, I just found a very similar American Standard kitchen sink. It too is in vitreous china. The search continues.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2013 at 10:44AM
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