elevation error require pool tear out??

shellipJune 19, 2011

Help Again please,

Have contract for $40K++ for pool only, no deck etc. PB accidently shot pool off wrong step, and built pool too far out of ground. Did not follow arch drawings. Now have 8"+ slope toward house with a span of 30' at the widest point. That puts the top of the pool, 8"+ higher than my living room windows and doors.Have had one rain of 15-20 minutes, so photos show how much water toward house and above door level, had to sump pump after 10 min of rain. Not good for south La. where hurricanes often give us days of rain at a time. See photos of roof line to see how much water we get off the roof.

Have had several drainage guys over to evaluate, and all recommend tearing pool out and drop to proper level.

Other mishap was the main line had a leak. Photo of them jack hammering it out to fix. PB said this does not damage integrity.

Like PB very much, but am extremely concerned about a substandard product. The deck area is about 2000 sq/ft. which adds another 60K, and then adding kitchen and fireplace. Concerned about the overall design, as nothing fits properly if we have to add multiple steps to compensate for pool elevation. Also, pool is so high from inside the house, can not see the infinity edge from sunken living area.

Approx. costs to change design and keep from tearing out pool is 20K in added arch., drainage, steps etc.

Am very concerned about impact on a million dollar property for elevations, looks, and function.

Any opinions? If has to be torn out will PB insurance cover? He does all his own forms, digging, pipes, so would have to pay for tear out, steel, gunite and replacing the tile. Don't know the price of steel, but he said gunite was 8K and tile 2K. Any additional advice would be very much appreciated!

POOL PLANS

HEIGHT OUT OF LIVING ROOM DOOR (SEE SKIMMER PIPE)

SLOPE TOWARD HOUSE

10 MINUTES OF RAIN

15 MIN. OF RAIN REQUIRED SUMP PUMP (SEE WATER LINE)

STEEP ROOF LINE DRAINING LOTS OF WATER

MAIN LINE LEAK/JACK HAMMERING

LOOKING FOR POOL LEAK

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womanowned

What are you using instead of decking between the pool and the house? If I was the PB, I would call in a pool engineer to devise the best correction. It might be possible to remove the top beam to lower the pool 8", but your desired depth could not be attained unless you tear everything out and start over. If you did not have a sunken living room, there could be solutions in modifying the deck and drainage between the house and the pool. Raising that area would make it more difficult to enjoy the infinity edge from your living room.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2011 at 4:54PM
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shellip

We are using travertine for the coping, porch, and deck areas.
We asked about removing the top of the pool to lower the pool and the response on this forum and from PB is the integrity would be compromised as it would remove all the bond beam. I was also told it would mess up the infinity gutter depth, and the splash deck would be only 4" deep.
To your knowledge is this info incorrect?
We have been trying to figure something out for 3 weeks, between landscapers, concrete & paver guys, and architect.
CROSS SECTION SECTION C, HE MEASURED FROM ONE STEP TOO HIGH

    Bookmark   June 19, 2011 at 5:43PM
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golfgeek

shellip,
It sounds like effort and dollars will be expended to over come the elevation problem.
Will you be willing to live with the results? Sounds like you wouldn't.

Since you have some detail drawings that were used but not followed, I would suggest that you ask the PB to provide a product that follows the plans. That's all you need to say.
Don't feel guilty or sorry for the PB. It's not your fault.

Insurance will most likely not cover this type of error for the PB. A shell that floats because of excess rain is coverable, but stupidity is not.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 11:17AM
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shellip

Golfgeek and Womanowned,
Thank you so much for your input. I talked to the PB's sub who placed the steel today, and he said he mentioned to PB that the elevation looked too high....I wish we had measured twice, cut once.
He said we could jack hammer out the top 2 feet of the pool, and expose the rebar, then he would re tie the bondbeam. Architect coming to look today so I will update you on what occurs. Many Many Thanks again!!!
shelli

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 3:15PM
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golfgeek

shellip,
Just remember that ALL vertical dimensions need to be addressed including: all steps and benches, pool light height below water to meet code, return line locations, weir depth and pool depths.
Is there a diving board or rock at the deep end?
You need to ask about all these items.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 7:02PM
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goyom

From your original post:
"Approx. costs to change design and keep from tearing out pool is 20K in added arch., drainage, steps etc."

Did your PB indicate this would be a cost you would pay ?
This is his problem, not yours, and do not let them tell you otherwise.

The PB should make this right. You have a contract, sadly chasing him down in court may be difficult.

Make sure you do not pay them another dime, stop all checks, until you find a resolution. The thought of adding a deck and kitchen and fireplace for 60k more on a pool you are not happy with makes me shudder.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2011 at 7:35PM
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banana_fanna

:-( The board has had some bad news lately. I hope your problems get resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.

I'm sorry for your troubles.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 4:38PM
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natural_one

Mistakes happen, but this is careless. You have the right to make him fix it, or have him offer a settlement for you to live with it.

If you live with it, I would intentionally have it raised out of the ground with a 12" wide step up....get creative with the riser up to the band of coping. You may be able to make it look gorgeous, along with a payout for him to not have to fix it the big bad expensive way. Good luck.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 7:15PM
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shellip

Thank you again to everyone for the great comments!!!

Talked to the steel sub last week, and he said he mentioned to PB at the steel stage that the pool looked too high! Wish he had reshot elevations at that time.
After additional consultation with two architects, and multiple drainage and landscape experts we have asked the PB to tear out the pool and re build according to the architectural drawings.

He is going to contact his insurance and get back to us. Right now we have dug a trench and are running a sump pump!
Can't thank all of you enough for answering not only my questions but also the info. you post on other posts.
shellip

    Bookmark   June 23, 2011 at 6:40PM
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poolguynj

His insurance company will likely tell him there is no such thing a stupidity insurance. He isn't likely to be too keen on a rip out at his expense. You shouldn't give a rats patui about what or when his insurance company says. Not your problem.

Get some council. I sense this is not going to go well in the near future. Your council will likely suggest you keep quiet on the boards about this going forward until it's resolved.

Scott

    Bookmark   June 23, 2011 at 7:53PM
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shellip

Update!
Thanks again everyone for all your info. PB has taken responsibility and is in the process of tearing out new pool.

He has taken out the gutter for the infinity edge, the walls of the shallow end, weir wall and the splash deck.
PB is requesting to leave the walls that are pictured below, and frame around or inside of them. He said he wants to do this so he can reuse the plumbing. The walls he wants to keep are the wall with the light in the deep end and the wall where the skimmer was placed.

This will change the size and design a bit which is not huge for us, but it pushes it to with in 6' of the trunk of a 100+ year old live oak. We are concerned with the gutter/catch basin being so close to a tree who is notorious for root invasion, especially since the basin will be in the ground, with the coping just above yard level.

Any thoughts on if it is ok to keep those walls and plumbing, and if you would be concerned about a catch basin that close to the tree. The original design has the pool a little over 10' from the trunk.

To save $ on the rebuild, we offered to omit the 10x10 splash deck and instead integrate it into the shallow end of the pool. Would this in fact be a cost saving for him?

Thank you!!!!
shellip

    Bookmark   July 10, 2011 at 1:19PM
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shellip

Update!
Thanks again everyone for all your info. PB has taken responsibility and is in the process of tearing out new pool.

pool demo from shallow end

He has taken out the gutter for the infinity edge, the walls of the shallow end, weir wall and the splash deck.
PB is requesting to leave the walls that are pictured below, and frame around or inside of them. He said he wants to do this so he can reuse the plumbing. The walls he wants to keep are the wall with the light in the deep end and the wall where the skimmer was placed.

skimmer wall & light wall

This will change the size and design a bit which is not huge for us, but it pushes it to with in 6' of the trunk of a 100+ year old live oak. We are concerned with the gutter/catch basin being so close to a tree who is notorious for root invasion, especially since the basin will be in the ground, with the coping just above yard level.

Any thoughts on if it is ok to keep those walls and plumbing, and if you would be concerned about a catch basin that close to the tree. The original design has the pool a little over 10' from the trunk.

To save $ on the rebuild, we offered to omit the 10x10 splash deck and instead integrate it into the shallow end of the pool. Would this in fact be a cost saving for him?

Thank you!!!!
shellip

    Bookmark   July 10, 2011 at 5:22PM
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golfgeek

shellip,
Why save a couple walls? The light niche still needs to be taken out and moved down to meet code(18" from top of the light ring to the water line). $50 worth of plumbing might be saved, but the pool will still be 6-8" shallow if the floor isn't removed.
I wouldn't change the plan at this point. You contracted for a specific pool and all the PB has to do is make it right per the elevation change. If he wants to leave walls in place, that's fine as long as all the dimensions are correct.

100 year old oaks tend to have a deep tap root and shouldn't affect the pool structure. The roots can affect the deck as they displace the soil over time.

Thumbs up to your PB for making it right. Every industry needs people who own up to their errors. Good luck.

    Bookmark   July 10, 2011 at 5:45PM
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renovxpt

Live oaks actually have very shallow root systems under most soil conditions. IMO 10 feet is too close.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2011 at 9:39AM
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shellip

Thanks golfgeek and renovxpt,

Yea,Live Oaks have very shallow root system and they can be destructive to sidewalks etc. That is why we are concerned about moving w/in 6' of the trunk.

Suggested to PB that we tear out skimmer wall and I would supply the new pipe. Hope he agrees.

All you guys have been a HUGE HELP!!!

shellip

    Bookmark   July 11, 2011 at 5:18PM
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