best deck preservative???

nuitjasmineSeptember 14, 2005

Hello--

I'm sorry if this is a very basic and possibly redundant question. I've tried to search the site for any previous threads, and done a lot of web based research, but I still need help.

We are in the midst of installing a redwood deck, and the wood is so beautiful, we have decided to keep the look, and go with a clear penetrating sealant. From looking online, I've read that the best products are 1.) penetrating 2.) have a high resin content 3.) UV protection 4.) mildewcide and 5.) no waxes or silicones to close the pores entirely and induce peeling and mold. We *do not* want to have to recoat the deck every year. I read that good products will last for 3-4 years. Can anyone recommend a good product that they have used with success?

Thanks in advance for your help!

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pressurepros

My first question is, do you like the look of grey wood? It's critical for me to know because it will chage my answer

    Bookmark   September 15, 2005 at 7:25AM
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nuitjasmine

NO! We really want to avoid the look of grey wood. We would like to keep the warm, rosy tone of the redwood. The look we would like to achieve would be similar to a piece of varnished or oiled wood, like hardwood flooring. Is it possible? Thanks for the help!

    Bookmark   September 15, 2005 at 12:14PM
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pressurepros

You cannot get your redwood deck to ever look like finished hardwood flooring. It's just an unrealistic expectation. Even if you could, it wouldn't last more than a couple of months.

You need to use a high quality, penetrating oil formulation from a paint store (not Home Depot or Lowes) Brand names would be TWP, Cabot's, Deckscapes, Sikkens (SRD formula) or maybe even Olympic Maximum (not plain Olympic which is junk) Do not, by any stretch, use CWF, Behr, or Thompsons. You also cannot use any type of tung oil or plain oil rub. The deck will covered in black and green mold in very short time, shortening the life of the deck.

When you are done building the deck, you will need to find a sodium percarbonate based cleaner (Wolman's makes one) Follow that with an oxalic based pH balance/brightener (Cabot's makes one).

Your desire to not have to seal every year is a long shot if you are sealing it yourself. It can be done every two years if your prep and cleaning is perfect, the wood is in the right pH balance range when applying the oil sealer, you use the right technique for proper sealer penetration, you use a very high quality product, and if you're enviroment isn't too harsh. If you get frequent rain/high sun cycles you can count on doing it every year for the type of aesthetic you are seeking.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2005 at 7:39AM
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nuitjasmine

Hmmmmmmm... I guess I was hoping that material scientists have created a miracle finish for decks! :) I've never seen a deck look like hardwood flooring, but anything close to that new wood look would be great. We will be having our contractor do the sealing for us, but we want to do the research, as he would probably slap on something from home depot.

What do the special cleaning and pH balancing step add to the process? (I am assuming they are necessary for a 'properly' sealed deck.) Also, which of the brands mentioned is the best deal for quality of product/price? Are there products that are better for certain climates? We are in W. Los Angeles, so the conditions are mild, the whole deck is shaded with pergola, and we have little rain, though marine influences from the beach give us a lot of nighttime dew. Thanks again for the great advice!!!

    Bookmark   September 17, 2005 at 12:18AM
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spiderwebkiss

What about applying a few coats of UV Resistant Marine Varnish as it is done for teak decks on boats. Those varnishes are made for uses in the arshest conditions such as sea water (salt), cold (ice & snow), extreme heat (like on the middle of the ocean), more water (typhoon, storms at sea)...
Of course it will add a slight golden/amber color to the original wood but I believe it would be much better than any other product and it would also give the wood a nice warm/rich aspect. Actually I think they now make clear varnish.

Also don't forget, varnishes and polyurethanes are two different products in quality and the difference in price is enormous:

- a gallon of UV resistant marine varnish cost around $100
- a gallon of polyurethane cost around $25

Here's a link to one of the best website specialized in marine products: http://www.jamestowndistributors.com

I hope this will help ...

Spiderwebkiss.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2005 at 12:09AM
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pressurepros

very very bad idea.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2005 at 7:05PM
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bhalper

Why?

    Bookmark   September 21, 2005 at 11:36PM
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pressurepros

Urethane finshes will crack and peel. Boats and decks are different beasts. The underside of a boat's deck is not exposed to constant moisture. Horizontal surfaces will not hold any type of urethane.

On a deck you will have a disgusting, peeling, flaky mess, that you will not be able to remove. Or you will have to cal in a pro whom will charge you $$$$ to get it off. Most "pros" can't even get it off.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2005 at 6:34PM
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john_hyatt

Hey Ken,,, Life is Good, mabey we saved one more person from using Urethane,,,ghesssssssss, thanks for the mail, I still think building coats with twp 116 works the best but true to form the Powers That Be have outlawed it in a few states, so far I can get in in Cow Town,seeing as how they make it like a few miles from my house, but when the days come about when I cant get it,I am just going to quit biding finish at all on my projects. John

    Bookmark   September 22, 2005 at 7:43PM
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spiderwebkiss

I completly agree with you when you say that "You cannot get your deck to ever look like finished hardwood flooring" but does it mean you can't take care of it as well??? You surely understand what I am trying to convene here...

By saying "Marine Varnish" I meant something like "Circa 1850 Exterior Varnish". It is a polymerized tung oil formula that takes about 2 hours to dry/touch then you can recoat after 24hrs at least, has a very high durability compare to oils & waxes. It also has an excellent resistance to water (highly better than oils or waxes that I know of.) It is a clear, semi gloss, tough coating that protects all exterior wood surfaces. This provides a breathable water repellant surface. Rain and snow cannot penetrate the coating to damage the wood. That "Circa 1850 Exterior Varnish" contains transparent absorbers to screen out UV rays and inhibit the greying and fading effects of the sun. It also incorporates a superior fungicide and mildewcide to increase performance.

Also before applying the "Circa 1850" you can (if you want) apply a sanding sealer (which is as its name imply a sealer you can sand--slightly of course--) such as "Interlux 9297 Sanding sealer". It is a clear semi-gloss sealer that will eliminate high or low spots before the application of varnish. The light sanding will allow the "Circa 1850" to bond very efficiently to the sealer (itself deeply bond in the wood fibers.)

For the application - Polymerized Tung Oil is burnished into the wood using a buffing machine with a steel wool pad. Or wiped in by hand on your hands and knees. It is a very different application than a urethane system where the coating is applied with a brush or an applicator and left on the wood to cure.
There is a difference in the tactile quality of the surfaces. Oil will always feel softer, more like furniture. Urethane is a harder surface and feels that way.

Another thing, if you want to keep your deck looking good and beautiful; NEVER, NEVER, NEVER clean your deck with a lot of water (don't forget it's wood.) It receives enough of it on rainy days already, your deck should be taken care of as much as you take care of your wooden floors (why should it be any different???) Would you hose down your living room floor? Would you leave a spill of water and not attend to it? I guess not... Same thing here. Mop the excess water out of your deck after the rain, it will help a lot in the long run.

By the way, I am not posting anything on this forum to agree or disagree with anybody, I am just posting suggestions that may prove as helpful for some people as it has done for me. Now, I am all ears to any advice/suggestion that may help me to improve my trade. I believe in becoming who I am (Translation: You learn everyday.)

Sincerely,
Spiderwebkiss

    Bookmark   September 22, 2005 at 8:49PM
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nuitjasmine

Thank you for all the input thus far-- the marine varnish sounds great for outdoor furniture... for the deck, we'll probably do some sort of alkyd stain.

I've read about clear preservatives that contain epoxy-- Some advice column claimed that it also was longer wearing, kept wood from graying at all, and was easily reapplied when needed, in 3-4 years. Is this all just repeated from a salesman's mouth, or is there truth to these claims?

Also, there are 3 or 4 new gallons of CWF flood in the shed leftover from something--- I've read here and other places that this is *not* the thing to use... My boyfriend thinks it may be fine...he actually read something on a news group that said it was an ok preservative. What are the cold hard facts that I can tell him about this product?

Thanks again for the advice!

    Bookmark   September 22, 2005 at 11:42PM
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pressurepros

CWF or anything from home depot is junk. Cheap pigmentation, inadequate amounts of mildewcide. In one year your deck will look like a moldy science experiment and you will want to strip it.

If you like the idea of replacing your deck, shoot for the epoxy. Those long term sealers are rhetoric. I am stripping a "5 year" acrylic right now (for the past two days actually) from a deck. Two years old and it was peeling like you wouldn't believe. Chemical stripper that burns your skin on contact, sat on this deck for hours before it even budged.

No color = no pigmentation. No pigmentation means grey deck.

Spiderwebkiss, I say this tentatively and I mean no disrespect but I believe the source from which you recieved your information was referring to indoor hardwood floors. Film forming finishes in an outdoor enviroment will fail. I have been maintaining decks for a few minutes now and the thought of comparing a deck to an interior floor seems a bit far fetched. The reason one would apply a penetrating oil sealer would be to slow down damage occuring from the elements. Of course you have to maintain it, but the facts are, no matter what you use to clean or seal, and from what type of wood you build a deck, it will eventually warp, crack, cup, splinter and need to be replaced. I'm curious to hear how you clean decks if not with water?

    Bookmark   September 23, 2005 at 1:21AM
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calico91

Speaking from experience: Do not use CWF. I live in Southern California (San Diego) and years ago used CWF with UV protection on the cedar siding on my house.......what did I know. It looked nice when it first went on but it did not protect the siding from the elements (sun/rain) and the side that got the most sun dried out really bad. The stuff had to be applied every year or sooner. I said forget this and ended up painting the house. A deck, being horizontal, is going to take more of a beating than the vertical structure of a house. I also had a redwood deck that I just recently tore down to replace with Ipe. My fault there......I didn't maintain it annually and after 15 years it was in worse shape than the house. No matter what you use, there will still be maintenance, maintenance, maintenance......so at least start out with a good quality product. With the Southern California climate, I still see myself reapplying the finish to my deck every 12-18 months but at least it will be easier and less time-consuming doing a deck than it was a tri-level house. Good Luck!

    Bookmark   September 23, 2005 at 2:00AM
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spiderwebkiss

Forget about CWF, it's crap.

Hi pressurepros, no offense taken, it's a forum and we should be able to debate differences in opinions. The best way to progress in any trade is to exchange experiences. If not, what's the use?

Again I agree with you that eventually a deck will need to be refinished or replaced sooner or later and that "Film forming finishes in an outdoor enviroment will fail". That "Circa 1850 Exterior Varnish" is not an urethane, it is a penetrating polymerized tung oil formula especially for the outdoors--BTW, I get my information thru research, study, practice, and trial & error as well as by talking and exchanging ideas with other professionals from all age & trades (same as you do I'm sure). Also you're right on it when you say "No matter what you use, there will still be maintenance, maintenance, maintenance......so at least start out with a good quality product". The thing is, a lot of folks out there who want to do it themselves (which I respect) buy cheap products from "Lowe's" or "The Home Depot". They follow the advices of unknowledgeable store' associates and end up with disasters.

Ok, I may have push it a bit comparing a deck with a wooden floor but that was just to make sure people understand that a wooden deck will never be 100% waterproof. You know what damages unattended water (leak, busted pipe...) could inflict to your wooden floor no matter how well it's been done. BTW, I didn't say not to use water to clean a deck, I said not to use too much water ("NEVER, NEVER, NEVER clean your deck with a lot of water".) Of course you need some water to clean a deck but not too much. I think the best way and time to clean a deck is just after the rain that way since it's been watered already you just have to mop it out, thus removing the unattended water that would otherwise take much longer to evaporate--less stress on the deck.

Sincerely,
Spiderwebkiss...

    Bookmark   September 24, 2005 at 5:32AM
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bob_cville

I actually have good things to say about CWF. I put it on a newly built Ipe deck a year and a half ago, and after a year it had failed so completely, that it was very easy to completely clean what little of that crap remained using the Sodium percarb stuff recommended here.

On the other had, my brother has a deck on which the contractor-applied coating has also completely failed, but it was some form of film-former, and he is likely going to have to use the nasty lye-based stuff to clean that mess off.

So I guess my point is if you ignore all advice you receive (like I did) and use a crappy product that will fail in relatively short order, hope that you've chosen a crappy product that is easy to remove. :-)

BTW After cleaning with the Sodium percarb followed by Oxalic acid deck cleaner, I put down Mahogany flame ATO, and the deck looks as good as new.

Thanks for the wonderful advice.
-Bob

    Bookmark   September 30, 2005 at 12:07PM
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deckman22

For redwood decks I like to use cabots ATO.

Al

    Bookmark   September 30, 2005 at 5:03PM
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nra4usa

Hello nuitjasmine,

I lurk here once in a while and over time I have read many posts by posters pressurepros and John Hyatt. Listen to them because they know what thay are talking about.

You can never have an outdoor wood deck that looks like an indoor floor. The sun will not allow this!

The best desck preservative I have found so far is a product called OneTime Wood Preservative. Unlike anything else it is 100% solids (no voltile component) and cures via UV light form the sun!! I have gone through about 9 gallons of this stuff and so-far so-good. It is very expensive to buy but will ultimately be the cheapest if it lasts the 7 years that they garantee it to last.

Here is the website: http://www.onetimewood.com/

I have used this stuff on cedar and redwood and I like the look of "clove brown" on cedar/redwood the best. It is semi-transparent. Clove brown is not "brown" like brown paint - it is a semi-transparent honey color.

Remeber that you CANNOT use a clear product on your deck because it WILL turn silver in 2 years. You need something with pigment to block the UV light from the sun from geting to the wood.

Take care & good luck

    Bookmark   October 2, 2005 at 1:07PM
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pressurepros

JM, the Cabot's Aussie Oil is a decent product. The only recent downfall is that the product was reformulated to meet VOC compliance in CA and here in the northeast. I find the new formulation a little tricky to work with and the results are not the same as with the original.

I believe ATO is a brand name and is not really a broad spectrum term describing a certain type of oil. As far as quality goes, it is a good product and it certainly isn't cheap at $50 per gallon.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2005 at 10:15AM
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Dave_in_MI

I just used ATO on my IPE deck and I am very happy with the results. I can't speak to the durability since it was just applied, but the application was easy and I like the color.

Also, I only spent about $35/gallon for it. You should be able to find it for far less than $50/gallon. I bought mine from a local paint store, pontiac paint. They may ship, so check out their web site at pontiacpaint.com.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2005 at 1:06PM
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pressurepros

Dave you bought the old formula. The new formula that JM would be purchasing is more expensive. The local MAB/paint stores sell it for $44.99 plus tax. The formulation in CA and the northeast is all the new stuff so results and pricing are different.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2005 at 4:10PM
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kashka_kat

Hey, I'm one who actually likes that grey weathered look-- but at the same time do not like dirty or grungy. Is there a way to get a nice shiny water resistent finish but let it go gray?

Re spyware, UGH, so is thatwhere all the spam spam spam spam spam comes from?

    Bookmark   October 28, 2005 at 2:07PM
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pressurepros

Yes, Kasha, seal it with a clear coat of high quality penetrating oil. Something with a decent mildewcide.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2005 at 10:30PM
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nuitjasmine

Hello!

OP here to give an update and say thanks again for the excellent advice. :)

After calling around to paint stores in the area, we found that Sherwin-Williams was the only place that knew anything and carried some of the recommended products. A few stores actually 'referred' us to Home Depot! (and suggested Behr and CWF...)

We went with the Deckscapes Toner product containing some pigment, but still fairly light. I also convinced my boyfriend to grudgingly consent to using the recommended cleaning products, including the oxalic acid based brightener product, which he thought was ridiculously overpriced at around $12 (I think.) He was delighted with the effect the brightener had, and was very impressed!!! It made our redwood look absolutely new, and removed any traces of wear it received since being installed. The 'water-bourne' Deckscapes Toner was easy to apply, dried very quickly and seems to have created a nice water repellent finish. The color is very natural, and still shows the beauty of the grain and color variations of the wood. We also used the product on new redwood fencing with a lattice top portion, and sprayed the product on, followed by a quick brushing to get the preservative into the wood. Our contractor was amazed at how easy it was for him.

Overall, we are very happy with the appearance of the deck. We still have concerns over the longevity of the finish, but only time will tell. So far, we were impressed with the quality of the products.

Now I'm in charge of planting around the deck and creating flowering pots... that's more my area of expertise, so I'm
having a ball!

Thanks again for all of the wonderful advice and steering us in the right direction!!! :)

    Bookmark   October 29, 2005 at 2:34AM
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nuitjasmine

I was so busy glowing about the deck, I forgot something!!! I have a maintenance question...

The only problem we have encountered thus far has been regarding the dogs (3 rescued chihuahua mixes) peeing on the posts of the pergola covering our deck. We are attempting to train them not to do this, but occasionally it happens, and though we wash it asap, we have a few stains. (At least they have tiny bladders!) Is there any way to treat these marks?

Thanks, as always, for your help!!! :)

    Bookmark   October 29, 2005 at 2:41AM
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lgo51_comcast_net

Hello,

Interesting, and timely, read. I've been promoted to use a penetrating oil product called Penofin to protect our redwood deck. Environment is a bit harsh: Colorado front range plains, western exposure, no shade... need I say more? Sure would appreciate the voice of experience as I'm hoping to do this chore correctly - this time.

Cheers,
LarryO

    Bookmark   November 16, 2005 at 12:18AM
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pressurepros

The most important thing is going to be your prep. Penofin will last a decent amount of time but the deck has to be very clean (sodium percarbonate), ph balanced(citric or oxalic acid), the sealer applied in the right temp and preferably not in direct sunlight. Penofin has had issues with mold but on your exposure it should be fine.

    Bookmark   November 16, 2005 at 6:45AM
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lgo51

Thanks PressurePros. I'm down with the prep step, but unclear if there are better of worse methods for that process. If one simply follows the directions on the bottle, is that adequate or are there other considerations and/or 'tuning' of the process to make for a better job? Like I said; once around the mill stone will be plenty for me .

LarryO

    Bookmark   November 16, 2005 at 10:31PM
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lgo51

Oh, my, my, you are no doubt a generous contributor to this forum... thanks!

After reading a number of your threads I think a few more details of the history of our poor deck are warranted to form a proper plan for the spring.

Basics: 12'x20' Redwood (common) deck, SE Denver area, western exposure, no shade from 11am-8pm (summer), semi-arrid climate.

History: installed in 2000, originally coated with whatever goo the HOA mandated, pressure washed and re-coated in 2003 with an unknown product, protection noted as weak to gone in late 2004, 'new' contractor pressure washed deck with water only and applied coat of Penofin last month (2005).

Status: UGLY! Probably safe to weather the winter, but definately needs to be re-done in the spring.

What I've learned so far: Contractor and I were both clueless as to the procedures necessary to prepare the deck for the protectorant. The old product was not removed. The 'Colorado Grey' was not removed (bleached?). And, the wood was not pH balanced or moisturized prior to application of the Penofin oil.

What I think I know: Procedure is to strip the current coating with a base (KOH, NaOH, ???), then neutralize that with an acid (Oxylic, Citric, ???), then wet/wash the deck with water (hose or rain) and let dry (probably not Colorado 'dry' I suspect), then apply 2 coats of the protectorant.

What I know I don't know: Product(s) to use to remove the current coating - read about Penofin being incompatable with other products??? Best follow-up product(s) to neutralize the base stripper, and is this the same as the 'brightener'??? Have seen reference to TWP, clueless about what it is and when to use it. Which protectorant product would be best to use in my situation (grey is bad) to get the best longevity.

The snow is falling as I type this, so I've got lots of time to learn from the masters on this forum and plan to do this project correctly, finally, in the spring.

Cheers,
LarryO

    Bookmark   November 17, 2005 at 12:38PM
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ooofest

I'm curious if there's something in this highly informative thread which might help my specific need:

For scheduling reasons truly beyond my control, I am finishing installation of our cedar-railed+decked, PT pine-framed deck in the next couple of weeks. It's in the 40s-50s here in the Northeast, but starting to hit 30s briefly, as well.

Is there *anything* I can do to help my cedar make it through the winter without being aged terribly? I was originally considering a Cabots semi-transparent oil which we use on the cedar fencing, but it requires temperatures of 50s and above. Heck, I'd cover the deck in a huge tarp all winter, if that would be best for the time-being. I'm hoping to stain for a brownish, cedar-like color, eventually.

JmossFiddler: those cookies you referenced are not spyware, to my recollection. They are typically used to help serve up ads and anonymously track usage (i.e., metrics) of the site - so as to better understand how site design and ad placement affect usability, effectiveness in leading folks to supporting advertisers, etc. There doesn't appear to be anything nefarious going on, and this is standard fare for many forum sites. Some "spyware" programs are a bit too aggressive about cookies in general (hey it helps to sell the software, which is supposedly helping you), although 99% of web cookies are good for both you and the site owners, IMHO.

- Wade

    Bookmark   November 21, 2005 at 12:16PM
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pressurepros

Let it weather over the winter. Clean and seal it in the spring. No product is going to cure properly and you would have to strip it off in the spring anyway. I suppose getting an oil sealer down (if you are truly determined) to protect from a harsh winter is not a terrible idea as long as you go in knowing that come spring, there is a likelihood you will be out there with sodium hydroxide based strippers and a pressure washer taking off what you put down.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2005 at 2:37PM
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RDFC

DO NOT USE CWF. I remove CWF from quite a few decks and it has never been appled properly to begin with. The normal homeowner will never be able to remove CWF, it will take a powerful professional product and even then we have a hard time with it. So you can imagine what the average homeowner will do when removing CWF. CWF will fail and when it does it will look like peeling latex paint. CWF is a film former and only bonds on the surface of the wood.

If you plan to do the work yourself, do a semi-transparent parafinic oil based stain. Linseed oil is a sugar thus a food source for mold and mildew. Plan on redoing or maintenance washing your deck every two years. This will keep it in it's best condition.

reed
Reed's Deck and Fence Care

    Bookmark   November 21, 2005 at 2:47PM
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ooofest

pressurepros: Thanks very much for that sound advice. I can deal with the need for doing a thorough cleaning job in the spring.

Was mainly worried that the cedar might start to get a bit ragged and warped by this initial exposure, essentially.

But, the idea of needing to strip an oil coat seems a bit much. Something to consider, at least - I appreciate the full view of what to expect.

- Wade

    Bookmark   November 21, 2005 at 3:53PM
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suds93

In October, 2005 nra4usa posted a suggestion to use OneTime Wood Preservative. It claims to be good for 7 years. Has anyone else heard anything about this or had any experience with it? I'm cosidering using it myself on my previously treated deck and would love some feedback before purchasing it.

Also, if I use a pressure washer on my deck, do I need to use any chemical cleaners or treatments to prepare it?

    Bookmark   June 16, 2006 at 12:07PM
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poleboy13

We are about to treat our new redwood deck and having difficulty deciding on a sealant product.
Ive seen a few postings regarding OneTime Wood Preservative. Does anyone have feedback regarding this product?
I realize the deck will change color with time bubt we would like to retain as much of the original color as possible.
A friend of ours did their deck last fall and this fall it looks really dark and dirty, They used Cabot but I donÂt know which product.
Any information regarding Onetime would be appreciated.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2006 at 12:01AM
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fpmr96a

We just used TWP 101 on our new PT deck. The product is great but the 101 Cedartone sucks. We ended up with an orange deck.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2006 at 11:17AM
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hoosiermike

I just built a redwood deck located in NW Indiana. Summers are hot and humid and winters are very cold. I purchased an exterior polymerized tung oil sealer from Sutherland Welles. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff? It looks like I will need to sand the entire deck(1000+ sq. ft)and then apply the tung oil. Any comments would be appreciated.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2007 at 1:03PM
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maggiec2007

Hi, I've been reading the posting regarding deck sealing/staining and was still confused as to which product to buy. My deck is new (6 months old) and I want to seal/stain it. I preferred to maintain the same natural color of the wood but after reading the posting I am alittle nervous because without using a stain the wood may turn gray?? What is my best bet, product wise, and do I need to do all the other steps (cleaning, preping) with a new deck? Thanks for your help.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2007 at 3:02PM
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Janice

This has been a very interesting thread. I'd love to see the discussion include those who have PTW/PT decks, old and new.

PTW, I'm taking to mean Pressure Treated Wood! Am I correct? :o)

    Bookmark   July 19, 2007 at 11:26PM
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andyboyd2

I just stained my deck for the first time with TWP Cedartone 101 and it looks very orange. Does it weather to a more natural-looking color and how long does it take? Thanks!

    Bookmark   August 7, 2007 at 8:56PM
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topgun6807

Has anyone used the product called DEFY? It's a all synthetic resin semitransparent stain/sealer that cleans up with water. Creative Paints sells it here in Ohio and says it should last and look good for about 4 years. Which seems pretty good. The label says it contains some epoxy.

I used to use Cuprinal (now I guess it's Deckscapes) on my old PT deck. Wasn't bad but needed redone every 2 years and seemed to darken up a lot over the years.

Now with new (up 4 months) PT Deck I want to use the best longest lasting semitransparent product available.

I'm hoping some has some good comments on DEFY... or a better choice. Thanks...

    Bookmark   August 8, 2007 at 5:20PM
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john_hyatt

Twp cedertone natural is a gold/yellow color finish using this on green pt lumber is going to look a little strange and will keep looking strange until it wares off.

I do not recomend any out door finish that contains epoxy for a lot of reasons. J.

    Bookmark   August 8, 2007 at 10:06PM
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topgun6807

So John (anyone else also feel free to chime in please)...
What stain/sealer do you recommend (use) on PT. I'm probably going cedar on color... or possibly a very light brown if I found a color I liked.

Have you ever actually known anyone to use the DEFY brand or something similar that had problems? And if you could tell me just a little about why the epoxy fortified DEFY product is bad news. It's a penetrating sealer that's contains all synthetic resins (said to be good for not being a mold & mildew food source).

You guys are the experts. To me it's all about labor so I want to use what will hold up best with the least maintenance.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2007 at 7:30AM
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finefinishes

Hello Mr.gun I can suggest the only product I use since it's release into the market 8 years ago.
It will stop all splitting of any type of wood and prevent mildew from growing, and as a bonus will give your deck a just finished look for many years, all products fade with uv light, so you want to use a semi transparent which has the most amount of pigments. Do Not listen to bull crap some people tell you, the proof is in the pudding and I can asure this is the best product Ive used.
As a paint contractor with 50 years of experience, with access to a high tech product testing facility in the netherlands, which allows me to see it for my self, which ensures that my clients get the very best.

The product you want to use is ONE TIME WOOD!
It stops the damage in its tracks and thats the most important thing to worry about.

    Bookmark   August 10, 2007 at 7:06PM
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twrutledge_comcast_net

I have about 1200 sf of a 10 year old cedar deck (mostly Alaska Yellow with a little Western Red) that I just sanded to bare wood (whew!). To protect my work and minimize the amount of maintenance, I am considering One Time Wood but was concerned there may not be enough direct sunlight here in the Great Pacific Northwest to cure the product.

Comments? Thanks.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2007 at 2:51PM
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handyman_kris

John, thanks for the quick response.

The tigerwood I bought is kiln dried, so that's good. It's a semi-arid climate here in Colorado, so I'm thinking the kiln dried wood will be okay. Although I've come across a few posts, I don't think there's much participation from Colorado folks on this forum, so I don't know how the different woods behave in our climate after they're put down. I think it will be fine. (I'm opening up the market for you, Don! :o)

With regard to the SS screws, do you ever have the occasion to pull them out? I have read here and elsewhere that they tend to snap off. (From the context of some posts, they are difficult to pull out even when recently installed.) I would not know either way. When I removed my current decking, I must have pulled almost 2000 screws. They were in the deck about 18 years and were the old brass colored bugle head steel philips head type, 3" long. I'm guessing I snapped about 50, so that's pretty good. I just spoke with the folks at SplitStop. Their stainless screws snap more easily because they're soft, while their plain steel screws are case hardened, which makes them stronger. Their composite screw has few threads per inch than their wood screw, so it's a more agressive thread and will take more torque to install.

If I recall correctly, you glue your trim work. What if it's too cold? Do you wait, or install without glue?

Also, I assume by "endgrain", you mean you rip down decking to the desired width? What type of saw blade do you rip with? I'm using a friends 10" table saw, so I want to put a decent blade in it for the job.

I called TWP and they recommended the 100 series for the Brazilian hardwoods - just like you've been saying. They told me expect to spread between 2 and 3 gallons for the first coat. I've got 500 sq. ft. of deck plus another 100 for the steps and fascia. The local dealer is Kwal Paint. The TWP website says:

"All new wood must be thoroughly saturated and exposed to either rain or water; three or more times to open the wood grain and remove excess surface tannins. Allow a minimum of 48 hours of good drying conditions before applying TWP® 100."

What do you suppose would happen if I put it down right after laying the wood, instead of waiting for it to be saturated 3 or more times like they are saying? Would the clear be better in this case?

It's getting pretty late in the year, so I'm thinking I don't have much leeway. I know you have much experience with Tigerwood. I wonder if anyone else can advise me. I hope no one thinks this is redundant. I've read many of the posts - I'm just trying to figure out which is better - finish now or use all the chems in the spring and finish then.

Thanks.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2007 at 12:05PM
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handyman_kris

Oops! Sorry, folks. I posted the above in the wrong place. :o( My apologies.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2007 at 1:08PM
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angelom

Try Kush Paints Marine Spar Varnish. Do a google search on Kush or Kushgard. It's reasonably priced and a good product.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2007 at 9:17PM
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jfcohio

I have a deck that was stained with Deckscapes 6 years ago. Now I want to re-stain the horizontals with a semi transparent and the verticals with a solid stain. The reason for going with a solid on the verticals is the gazebo that covers my Koi pond. If I try to strip the area above the pond it will kill the fish. I beleive I can use Olympic maximum latex solid in this area without having to strip all the old Deckscapes. Any advice?

    Bookmark   July 14, 2008 at 5:30PM
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roman_08

repost - had to register -

noob here, some dumb questions

1. Just finished our PT deck, do i need to wait some time before i can seal it?
2. Are opaque sealers better than tinted or clear?
3. Can someone recommend a "blue collar" sealer from a national retailer? Budget is tight, and i dont feel like driving all around the world to find a specialty shop.
4. Have wood fence too that is 2 years old. Do i need to power wash it before sealing?
5. As for sealing / staining. Sealing protects the wood, and stain just changes color? yes?

many thanks in advance

    Bookmark   July 15, 2008 at 11:18PM
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scalelar

1.yes
2.yes-no-maybe the more pigment in a stain the more uv protection but less natural wood showing.
3.might catch some heat for this but I just used Cabot's semi-solid stain. Some folk's on this site like it some don't. Cosumer reports rates it highly(yes guys i know you can't trust every thing cr says) and Lowes carries it. It is a medium priced stain.
4.wash it with a non-chlorine bleach cleaner(sodium percarbonate)
5.no. Good stain preserves and seals.

hope this helps

    Bookmark   July 17, 2008 at 1:46PM
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clairemontcat

We just had a new redwood deck built in our yard - PTW on bottom. Reviewed all the posts and am still somewhat confused. Per the deck builders direction, we have hosed it down a few times to open up the grain. Do I need to clean it with oxalic acid before sealing?

We live in San Diego, and the deck will be exposed to strong sunlight year round, without much moisture. Is the One Time Deck product still the sealer of choice on this board? We've never sealed a deck before - any recommendations on technique?

    Bookmark   March 27, 2009 at 3:17PM
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sassync

Hi,

I posted my problem on building a home section but you all seem very knowledgeable and thought I would try here also.

We have new construction using cedar siding and we wanted it to use a clear. The GC called and asked if it was okay if it had a "little tint" and so we said fine. They used Sikkens Log and Siding #78 and it is ORANGE!! We hate it. So, right now they are stripping one side to see where to go from here.

I was reading about DEFY and it says it protects but uses no color, so I am wondering about using that?

Also, after the stripping, should anything else be used, (brightener) or is it okay to proceed with a new sealer?

Will we ever get the natural look we are looking for or is it ruined????

Thanks for your help!!

    Bookmark   June 11, 2009 at 10:13AM
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ronash6

Other than you can buy it at Lowe's or Home Depot what is the problem with Thompson's® WaterSeal® Waterproofer Plus Clear Wood Protector. It seem to have all the qualities of a good water proofer, UV protection, Mildew additive, and is a solvent base. All these new water base products are nothing more than a paint which require stripping off when refinish time comes to avoid that spotted look. Thompsons can be applyed with a garden sprayer, bursh out the puddles, so easy it is no bother doing it every year and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. All comments welcome.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2010 at 9:18AM
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john_hyatt

Do Not Use Anything With Thompson's on the lable.

Reread.

Again.

All the new water base products are not nothing more than paint,do not require stripping when refinish time comes,done corectley do not have a spotted look. One example is twp water base finish. J.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2010 at 4:52PM
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tcooks2007

I can only share my nightmare in hopes that others can learn from things I've learned the hard way. Following is my nightmare. It may give you some tips.

I have "had it" with deck stain. Information in this area of expertise is confusing and often erroneous. Most subjects, I can research and obtain clear answers. There seem to be no clear answers or consensus regarding deck staining. It's very frustrating! I bought a home with a large older deck stained gray (appeared to have many old coats). I first got some deck cleaner and some Thompson's Water Seal Waterproofer Plus Clear Wood Protector (friends and family suggested it as they used it wihtout any problems). I was just going to reseal the old gray deck as it was started to show signs that it was no longer protected. The directions (on the Thompson's) said to wash the deck first. I washed the deck and some of the stain came off in places in the deck was all blotchy. (Lesson: If you wash the deck, do it mildly without a lot of water or too harsh of cleaner.)

I wanted the natural wood with just a clear sealer on it that I could apply more sealer to once or twice a year. I researched and therefore decided to strip the deck and start over. I stripped the old gray stain/finish off until it was the original PT pine color. (8 gallons of stripper and countless hours of scrubbing). I think it is pressure treated pine lumber. I then researched and decided to sand the wood (since it was highly suggested I do so).

I had no idea what kind of sealer to apply. I read page after page of various forums and articles. I spoke to many professionals. I did more research and finally decided on Australian Timber Oil (As it was also highly suggested by many) in Natural (samples showed a pine color). (Although choosing a good stain or sealer is very confusing.) I wanted a natural wood look so I could simply gently wash the deck once or twice a year and reseal. I didn't really care if I had to apply sealer often or not. I just never wanted to have to strip colored stain again.

I very lightly applied the natural stain and then wiped back over with a cloth per directions. Once applied to the soft lumber, the stain was not Natural in color but was brown - dark brown and it was BLOTCHY. I absolutely did not overapply. In fact it dried within a few hours.
After further research, I have learned much.

First of all, Australian Timber Oil is for hard woods only even though the directions state it can be applied to softer woods. The soft woods absorb the stain too quickly. Sanding made the wood absorb the stain even more quickly. Thus, the "Natural" stain went on dark brown.

In addition, soft woods outdoors like PT and pine are notoriously difficult to stain without getting blotchy. I found a great site explaining how to prevent this by sealing the wood prior to staining. Here is the article: http://www.rd.com/50400/article50400.html

If someone ever has small areas where they overapplied the stain or stain stays tacky and doesn't dry, I found a great tip (although this was not my problem): Simply wipe or mop those areas with mineral spirits.

Now, I'm just going to wait for it wear off some and when it's time to seal or condition again, I'll maybe apply some clear product as yet unknown and undecided. Not sure yet. Would love suggestions. I'm just going to live with the blotchy appearance unless there are suggestions that don't involve stripping again.

Again - if you wash the deck, only gently wash decks or some of the stain may come off and give a blotchy appearance.

In my case, sanding didn't seem to do anything to help at all except waste a lot of time and effort.

I kind of wish I had not even cleaned the deck that first time and had just applied the thompson's water seal and been done with it.

I just don't understand why this subject seems so difficult to research and why there is no one place that could have explained some of this and consolidated all the tips. Also I wish there were more explanations, such as: Why exactly do so many people slam Thompson's water seal? They say it has wax but then don't explain why wax is bad. They say it doesn't last long, but maybe someone out here doesn't care how long it lasts or how often they have to put it on. They say it doesn't do well in protecting from UV, but most clear products don't. It takes pigment to really protect sun damage.

No one explained that Australian Timber Oil would apply MUCH darker to soft woods. They just said it worked great on soft woods.

etc.

    Bookmark   April 6, 2010 at 5:37PM
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mulroy

tcooks2007 -

I share your frustration. I've recently ventured down the rabbit hole of deck restoration research...

First, the basic truth of decks: they are an aberration of nature - flat wood is hammered by UV radiation, constant moisture, mechanical disturbance, and bombardment of organic material (the smallest of which, fungus and pollen cause the most harm) NO product should claim better than 2 years on the horizontal and 3-4 on the vertical. The above mentioned "One Time" claims 7 years. If you can prove that, buy the product, then buy the company.

Second, the basic truth of our economic system: "Let the buyer beware." Profit, not fairness is engine of our system. If you knew nothing about nutrition and walked into a McDonald's you'd think a Big Mac was the best thing to eat. Product placement is guided more by economic power (and enhanced by advertising and marketing) than any manner of rational thinking. Many of the deck products being sold are Coke vs. Pepsi - both rot your teeth and make you fat...

Now what I have discovered:
PREP --- Prep is everything!!!! You stripped (with what) and sanded, but it sounds like you did not NEUTRALIZE / BRIGHTEN. I've learned this is a crucial step, especially after using a strong base for stripping (most have NaOH) to bring the pH of wood back to normal.
SEALER --- even amongst the experts there is debate but the answer falls into 2 categories: 1) Parafinnic penetrating oil (non-drying) sealers like "Ready Seal" 2) Hybrids of Parafinnic oil and Drying oil (resins, plant & petroleum based) like "Armstrong Clark Semi-Cedar". Both of these will fall under the name "Semi-Transparent Stains" and will also contain Oxide pigment (gives UV protection) and biocides (kills mold & mildew). These products are only available at specialty dealers. One other interesting possibility is offered by "The Real Milk Paint Company". Application of the biocide PC-Wood Guardian, to kill fungi, then a couple coats of 1:1 Tung Oil / Citrus Solvent sealer. (although this sounds risky to me...)

I recommend visiting the web site "The Grime Scene", a professional cleaning & restoration site. Their forums have a sub-category for DIYers to ask questions, and there is a sub-category for Wood/Deck restoration. Very informative. Also, you can contact the technical reps for the products quoted above.

Finally, my take on the chemistry / physics of deck wood. Big issue: water, the wood needs to breathe & like Gore-Tex fabric, should let interior water out, but keep exterior water out, as well. Therein lies the problem with wax (Thompson's); they might give a pretty shiny beaded look when new, but don't allow a breathing process, so the moisture gets out the only way it can - by destroying the sealer layer through blistering, cracking, etc. Also, the sealer needs to deal with freeze / thaw cycles. Something that looks great when brand new might be very susceptible to deterioration from this. And of course, trapped water breeds the nasty fungi - the dark force always waiting to gobble up your precious wood. Then UV and fungi - which I adressed already (oxide pigments, biocide)

Finally. a deck should be kept clean, no matter what product you use, pollen, mold spores, seed pods, etc. will cause a problem.

It's very frustrating - but putting worse product on already bad isn't the answer. REMEMBER: Strip - Neutralize / Brighten - Sealer (and do it the way the pros tell you!)

Hope this helped!

P.S. folks who thought they beat Mother Nature by installing composite decks are having all sorts of problems with staining, mold, algae, etc.

Moral of the Story: NOTHING is maintenance free...

    Bookmark   October 5, 2010 at 10:51PM
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mulroy

I might have stuck my foot in my mouth in my previous post on the issue of Bond's One TIME Outdoor Wood Treatment. I just did some research.

This is new technology, patented in 1998. It is an acrylate in which the ploymerization process is photoinitiated, with added fungicides, insecticides, animal-cides, and oxide pigments for color & UV protection. It is supposed to penetrate deep into the wood and last for at least 7 years.

Sounds hard to believe, but who knows? Maybe this is the Holy Grail of deck treatments.

I would certainly do some research, see if you can get reliable reports from the field from an independent party. Another question I'm not sure of: what do you do if itfails, or in 7 years for that matter, to get it off?

Of course the prep basics apply, no matter what product you use: Strip / Clean > Neutralize /Brighten > Seal

    Bookmark   October 6, 2010 at 1:08AM
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mulroy

Just finished a deck using Woodrich Brand "Wood Tux".
The result exceeded my expectations. The URL below connects to my Flickr photostream.

photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/54739693@N07/

From what I've learned, the pros use quality oil-based finishes. Either parafinnic (penetrating, non-drying) oil, or a combination of that, and a film-forming drying oil (like linseed)with added alkyd resins, transparent-oxide pigments, and fungicides. Ready Seal and Armstrong Clark seem to be the other popular brands.

Considerations of your Finish Product:

1. Does it color shift with UV exposure? (become darker with exposure)
2. Does it flake, peel or fade with age?
3. Does it accept itself as a maintenance coating as required?
4. Does it have a stripper to remove it should the homeowner / subsequent buyer wish to change it?
5. Adhesion/absorption is one thing, does it provide for any moisturization of the wood while the coating is in place?
6. Is this product meant to be left alone for the duration of it's 'life expectancy' or does it require cleaning and if so, what product is to be used and how often and what consequences are possible if the wrong cleaner is used?

    Bookmark   October 14, 2010 at 12:32PM
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caststeelman

Has anyone else tried the Bond's One TIME Outdoor Wood Treatment? I like the claims but it is expensive. So i am asking for anybody who has had it say 3 or 4 years and how it is holding up? is it as good as the manufacturer claims?

Or- Mr Mulroy, can you tell me if you have results after 4 years and how any such deck is doing now?

    Bookmark   March 10, 2011 at 11:28AM
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brsuich

Yes I have used Bond's One Time.
I like the clove color.
Have used it twice, once on a new shed and another time on a new deck. Shed 4 years ago and deck 2 years ago.

Very satisfied. I did touch it up on a few spots last year but very easy prep.
I am not real sure about putting it over another existing sealer. They suggest you remove it all and sounds like that may be difficult. I jumped on it for new construction as it is sort of expensive but had heard they really feel you get more like 10 years out of it.
So far so good for me.
PS. the people at Bonds are nice to deal with.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2011 at 1:18PM
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caststeelman

Thanks your insight brsuich. i have an indoor screen porch that was easy to strip. i coated it w Benjamin Moore Arborcoat semitransparent and then the arborcoat clear coat. looks great but i cannot attest to how long it will last.i have an outdoor deck same age (10 years old) as the inside. that outside deck i have been coating almost every year w Behr product fr home depot. never looked good after one year. so that is why i am trying to get product that will last longer. however- stripping the outside is not as successful as the inside. i guess all those years of coating w the stuff i have has really absorbed into the wood. so i will call Bonds for the one time coat and see what they suggest.

    Bookmark   March 17, 2011 at 10:22AM
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caststeelman

as i read more and more, i find my indoor porch was easy to strip because all it ever saw was oil based stain. the outdoor deck has received acrylic based stain on top of oil based preservative. i have tried cabots wood stripper, and it worked (outside deck) w lots of scrubbing and heavy pwr washing approx 70% removal. Too much work. so now i am seeking to buy a stripper that says good for acrylic. i found Flood product on another website. the cabots says for oil based. sherwin williams guy said his wld remove all stains. i have also heard of Extreme Solutions HD80 but hard to get as they seem to only want to sell to professionals. Anybody have another product idea?

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 10:40AM
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caststeelman

I found a place to buy Extreme Solutions HD80 - opwdecks.com. it shld arrive before next weekend. I will update within a few weeks to let all know of success. i have some pre photos already, i gotta figure out how to get links to photos for anybody that wants to see the success (or lack thereof?). All- have a good weekend

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 11:19AM
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rwictorin_yahoo_com

wow this deck talk goes on forever,you cant go wrong with a product we found at sherwin-williams called eco wood treatment,its a small package,you mix with water,goes on real easy,turns the deck a nice grey colour,dosent come off,and stands up to the hot heat!it can be tinted a colour as well,rob san fransico

    Bookmark   April 4, 2011 at 9:51PM
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cooknwoman

hi, we are putting in a large redwood deck with a pergola - we live in the hight desert at 3600ft and get some snow and in the summer it can bump 100 degrees sometimes. I am looking for an clear deck sealer that will keep the wood natural with red and blonde color if possible. I was told a good product would have linseed oil and to stay away from latex and acrylic - I've also been told that you cannot get a product like that in CA any longer - I need help and fast!! I also did not know the deck would need to be washed down first with an oxalic based pH balance/brightener either - I don't think my contractor mentioned that which is very scary!!!
Thanks so much for any input!
Susie

    Bookmark   April 18, 2011 at 7:29PM
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qunqoree

For all of you,I can feel your pain dealing with fences and decks , and for the others who got this far down on this tread: no easy solution for you,maintenance is the key.
There is no such product that will last 7 years ! 2-maybe 3 the max.Here is my 2c worth:
After cleaning your deck,let it dry ( about 1-2 days ) mix of linseed ( not boiled ) oil 70% , mineral spirits 20%,and Japan dryer 10% ( Cabot has a similar formula for $ 5x )apply it real generously ,let it soak in and let it be kind of semi on the surface (2-3 days ),then apply solid or semi color penetrating stain. No clear coating,no sealing ,maintain it every 1-2-years ( or if fading sooner )by wipe some of the same thinned down stain on it,and that's all.for hardwood decks only oil (teak oil ).
no varnishes,no urethane,no Thomson,no clear finishes,and most importantly : no water base clears. If you wanted to paint your deck: oil base primer & 2-coats of water base enamel ( Benjamin Moore )same thing on your exterior trim.
I hope it would help you ,I only do this as a painting contractor for about 35 years.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2011 at 12:03AM
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bobby16

I just installed a California redwood deck, should I wait to seal or stain it, and what is best to use on it?? Thanks for your help!!!

    Bookmark   June 25, 2011 at 11:36AM
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bostonbuilders_aol_com

the best deck preservative is a product called ECO WOOD TREATMENT. you can,t beat it , its by far the best , no question.webought ours at home depot . and to the previous post they are a great store , the worlds biggest I think thanks regards barry

    Bookmark   June 27, 2011 at 10:10PM
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carleyspringwater_yahoo_com

eco wood treatment from home depot

    Bookmark   June 27, 2011 at 10:14PM
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KAK707

Im a licenced General B, C-33, and Engineer. I have been building and sealing decks of many different materials for over 30 years in California. The 4th posting from the top by the name of PressurePros is "the only" comment I would advise any reader to follow when finishing or restoring a deck/outdoor raw wood. I also am lmao over the "no water" method.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2012 at 7:16AM
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mjrussell

I too am looking for the best redwood deck/porch cleaner and preservative, and, like Kashka, prefer the grey weathered look, and that is what we have. I do not, however, want a shiny look. We bought this house 10 years ago and knew nothing about redwood maintenance. We did not know it needed maintenance and have done none.

I have no idea what the previous owners did as they were dead when we bought the house. The deck (or, rather, front and back porches) and the house, are 52 years old and are in pretty good shape, believe it or not. The California redwood is of a quality that would not be available today. Is it reasonable to expect to keep them for many years more?

    Bookmark   December 29, 2012 at 4:30PM
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