Revised layout -- please critique -- I need some sleep :)

alermarMarch 6, 2014

After numerous revisions and another sleepless night with kitchen designs running through my head, I came up with the following. I am not very good at envisioning what this will look like in reality though

The benefit of this design is that I would have the view of the pool/canal from both the sink and cooktop. What do you all think?

Here is the original thread for background info

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Perhaps I missed it in you earlier threads but what is in that 8' space b/w the ovens and fridge? I'm not a designer but it seems like it would be congested with everything all in a row on the island and the fridge right behind the sink. That said, I do understand why you would want a nice view from both your sink and range. I'm trying to work that out in my own kitchen layout!

    Bookmark   March 6, 2014 at 9:55PM
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Sophie Wheeler

Cooking is only 10% of thetime you spend in your kitchen. Prep is 70%. Put the cooktop on the back wall so it isn't so useless. The counter space that's there won't be used as you've got all of the action crowded into the island (with the prep and cleanup zones awkwardly intermixed.)

    Bookmark   March 6, 2014 at 10:23PM
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I agree with hollysprings. Right now the only place you have to do prep is between the fridge and oven and that is what most of your time is spent doing. So you will have your back turned to the view most of the time.

Prepping - cutting, chopping, mixing, collecting, sorting vegies, -all of that will be done with your back to the view. You have no other space to do it. Put the range on the back counter and then switch the DW and the trash.

You will then prep where the range is currently planned and you want to prep by the trash and get the DW out of the way.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2014 at 10:59PM
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You only have 43" between your fridge and sink. Are you the only cook? If someone else was at the sink, I don't think that's enough space to open the fridge door and not have to stand to one side.

I agree about the cooktop being on the run between the fridge and ovens. With it in this location, an overhead hood wouldn't break the sightline.
That island is very long, can the 6 stools not be set up side-by-side behind the island? One bank of drawers that are currently on the left rear of the island could be moved to the right rear (providing it doesn't contain things you're going to use every day) and the other bank could go at the far right end. I would then shift the sink to the space where the cooktop was, with the trash on the right and DW on the left.

Why do you have 3 pantries: pull-out pantry in kitchen, pantry in entrance to laundry and garage pantry?

This post was edited by canuckplayer on Thu, Mar 6, 14 at 23:45

    Bookmark   March 6, 2014 at 11:24PM
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Unless you are left handed, I'd move your DW so it's one the left, and place the trash on the right. You've got it backwards for a rightie.

But I also agree that your cooktop and sink are too close together and the cooktop needs to be along the garage wall, instead. The way you have it, all your action is concentrated between sink and cooktop, in just a few feet. (And with the DW right in that space, too!)

Moving the cooktp to the back wall be a HUGE improvement, and get your hots all together. Are you planning two double oven stacks? Why not have a single double stack and add that space into the counter?

I think far too many people are subconsciously imitating TV cooking shows in choosing to have their cooktops in the eat-at islands. What you can't see in TV show is massive overhead ventilation, and an army of prep cooks pre-preparing everything so it's hardly more than a few minutess on the stove. Real life is NOT like that. Do yourself a big favor and take heed of the suggestion to get your cooktop on the back (lower/garage wall).

Just my two cents.


    Bookmark   March 6, 2014 at 11:36PM
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Points well taken -- I should refrain from trying to design a kitchen after little sleep and an unusually difficult day at the office ;)

I cook a lot, and my husband generally does the dishes. So I think the sink on the back wall with the cooktop and a prep sink in the island makes sense for us. I understand the downsides of the cooktop on the island (venting etc).

The DW is on the left of the sink because DH insists on it (and since I like for him to do the dishes, IâÂÂm giving in on that battle).

The 3 pantries arenâÂÂt really all food pantries. The one in the laundry room will have overflow from the kitchen as well as laundry items etc. The one in the garage is for bulk purchases of paper towels etc. as well as any other storage issues. It probably shouldnâÂÂt be labeled as a pantry.

I can do a single oven stack (IâÂÂm hoping for regular oven and steam/combi oven) and put the microwave elsewhere (maybe a drawer).

DH likes the idea of a shorter (relatively speaking) island and a kitchen table rather than the island seating, but I like the island seating better (although IâÂÂd rather avoid having everyone in a row).

So, essentially, I'm back at my original design, but with only one oven stack instead of 2. The only other option (since I can't move the beverage center/bar -- the only other thing DH insists on), would be to turn the corner along the wall next to the oven. That detracts from the modern design, but I'm "over" that issue

So this is what's left:

but with only one oven stack
something like this (although the measurements are not as accurate)

    Bookmark   March 7, 2014 at 10:02AM
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robo (z6a)

I like your last design, I think it's an improvement so far! To me the indoor/outdoor table would be the first thing to go, personally. If it's nice enough to eat outdoors, it seems like everyone would like to be out. If not, everyone can eat in the dining room. In FL you're usually trying to keep AC in and moisture out instead of heat in, but the same general principle of keeping the doors shut most of the time seems to apply from what I've seen. So having a huge door open for dinner doesn't seem like something that would always happen.

I know an architect is helping you out, but have you talked to a kitchen designer, even one who sells kitchen cabinets? I think this may be the point for a little hand holding and mediation between you and the husband. I have read on this forum that architects often make poor kitchen designers and vice versa. If you are getting cabinets through a company the designer is not going to cost you any extra and you'll come out with a better design.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2014 at 11:52AM
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Do you really need the table and the island seating? Could you use a banquette with one smaller table or two occasional/drinks tables?

Also, could the baking area be on the back wall and the clean up area closer to the windows? Just a few ideas :)

From Kitchen plans

    Bookmark   March 7, 2014 at 12:22PM
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Thanks robotropolis -- I DO need some hand-holding. That's why I have you all ;) Seriously though, I thought I was doing well with the cabinet designers. They seemed to know what they were doing. But when I asked where the electrical outlets would be in the island, they seemed shocked. I said I needed electrical for small appliances, and they said they could put one under the counter where the stools are. I responded that I like to use an immersion blender at the cooktop and they looked blank-faced. Has no one ever asked for electrical in an island?? Do they not know what an immersion blender is? Then they told me that an oven stack with an oven, steam oven & speed oven wouldn't be tall and they showed me their sample wall. I am 5'3, the 2 cabinet designers are similar height. We walked over the the oven stack, and they tried to show me that it's fine. I then asked them to take off their 5 inch heels (this is S.Fla) and try again. They then had to admit they would have to reach above their heads to get stuff out of the top oven. Adorable girls & very nice, but NOT cooks!
Lavender -- The undercounter stools at the island really were intended for me (and perhaps a helper) to sit at while prepping, not for eating, so the table wouldn't be redundant. Having said that, and considering robo's comments about not leaving doors open in the heat/humidity, I agree that it makes sense to combine the seating into the island. We are a family of 5 (although kids are grown), so 5 stools at the island and getting rid of the separate table would work. I could put a larger table outside for the times that the weather is good and we want to eat out there -- we tend to eat outside during holidays when the kids bring friends home, so a larger outdoor table, sitting horizontal to the kitchen might work. I like where you put the sink closer to the glass sliders. It takes it out of the way of the cooktop/frig. It's farther from the dining room, but clearing the table would be easier in a sense because we would walk from the DR to the sink outside of the island aisle (closer to the pool). I'm going to explore making the glass sliders smaller and perhaps incorporating a window above the sink -- not so low that the grill outside would be too visible, but low enough that the person standing at the sink would have a nice view. Interesting.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2014 at 1:09PM
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robo (z6a)

Wonder if DH could get on board with something like this at his cleanup station? Not sure if this is hurricane friendly mind you... maybe some kind of sliding system would be better. Easy pass thru to the grill...

This post was edited by robotropolis on Fri, Mar 7, 14 at 13:18

    Bookmark   March 7, 2014 at 1:16PM
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Hmmm -- let's see if I can sell this one -- it's a great idea!
I know I should be happy that DH is so involved in planning the house but I wish he would stay out of my kitchen (except to do the dishes of course) ;)
(It's really his project -- I'm fine where we are, and architect/designer is his best friend -- so I'm losing a lot of design battles -- but I also don't have a lot of vision/talent in this area).
Thanks for your help!

    Bookmark   March 8, 2014 at 7:18AM
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robo (z6a)

I thought of you today alermar because I have the lanai doors wide open! Beautiful morning in Bradenton (I'm on vacation).

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 11:39AM
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In many areas you MUST have electrical outlets in your island. We had to have a total of 4 outlets and the island isn't that big.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 11:59AM
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Robo -- weather is GORGEOUS this weekend! Had dinner out on a sailboat in Biscayne Bay -- minimal kitchen galley -- amazing what we can do with a tiny kitchen when needed :)

    Bookmark   March 9, 2014 at 2:08PM
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