Ipe decking - breadboard edge ??

tom_nwnjAugust 15, 2007

I am just beginning my Ipe deck. It is approx 30' X 12', and average elevation from the ground is ~ 6 foot. The frame is mostly done, but I haven't ordered the decking yet.

How many folks here who build decks (John Hyatt, brooklyn decks, anybody else) go to the trouble of hiding the end grain, with a breadboard edge?

Thanks in advance!

Tom Fischer

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deckman22

I do that on a lot of decks, some folks like some don't.

Al

    Bookmark   August 15, 2007 at 3:02PM
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john_hyatt

I always do,its called endgrain trim with my Wallets.

Not really what you have drawn..trim the decking flush with the frame instal rips of the decking to the out side. This is one reason using the thinded down wax is not needed with my stuff, all the end grain is covered with the trim. J.

    Bookmark   August 15, 2007 at 4:36PM
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tom_nwnj

John,

So the end grain trim should be approx 1.5" wide rip (facia board is 3/4" + 3/4" for deck board bullnosed overhanging) ??

Thanks!

tf

    Bookmark   August 15, 2007 at 4:50PM
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john_hyatt

With 3/4 facia or skirting,1 1/2'' works well for me,this will give an overhang detail that looks good after the skirting is butted up to it. We put the router detail on before install.

We use Tightbond111 and ss screws fastening the endgrain trim. Little Trick>> If your working by yourself,lightly tap a few nails under the decking this will hold up the trim while you making your mark

    Bookmark   August 15, 2007 at 5:27PM
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dooer

Like John, we have done it both ways. We always use trim of some sort, usually we will rip the 5 1/2" boards down the middle, leaving 2 pieces around 2 5/8".

That said, I really do like the look of the "Breadboard" trim. You can either overhang it a bit, 1/2 to 1" or add trim to the outside. It is more work though.

Mark

    Bookmark   August 16, 2007 at 12:14AM
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tom_nwnj

I think I'm going with a 3" edge-grain board (breadboard).

Do you guys ever cut a tongue and groove joint for the breadboard to edge-grain.

I am particularly concerned about the breadboard trim over the stairs, that the weight of a person on the cantilevered edge may loosen it.

Thanks!

tf

    Bookmark   August 16, 2007 at 1:34PM
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brooklyndecks

I like the frame set with a gap equal to the one between the decking...not butted tight. However you set the frame, it needs support underneath...especially on the steps.

steve

    Bookmark   August 16, 2007 at 3:10PM
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riles_j

I am planning on adding end-grain trim to my deck and am having difficulty picturing the various techniques here.

John,
You say you trim boards flush with the frame. Then if you have a 3/4" fascia board, the 1-1/2" end-grain sits on top of the 3/4" fascia board and overhangs 3/4". Is that correct. Do you screw it into the top of the fascia board?

Dooer,
You say you use 2-5/8" board. How is that fastened? I guess you are doubling up that rim joist, is that correct?

Tom,
With a 3" endgrain, again I assume you are doubling up the rim joist and then running fascia or skirting up underneath?

Thanks,

Riles

    Bookmark   August 20, 2007 at 12:30PM
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dooer

We do not usually double up our rim joist. We use 2x12 redwood for our rim/fascia, with the decking going over the top. We then cover the end cuts with 2 5/8" trim that laps the ends and covers the seam between the decking and the fascia. We screw (headcote trim) and glue the trim.

If you are adding the "breadboard" effect, you will need to block between joists in some areas to pick this up.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2007 at 1:43PM
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tom_nwnj

riles_j

Rain today. Took some pics of my deck project.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2007 at 3:46PM
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john_hyatt

My use of endgrain trim must be easy for me but hard to understand as I key in.

Flush trimed decking, the trim screws into the decking, the skirting fastenens to the rim joists and bumps up to the bottom of the trim.

I cant really picture using endgrain trim any larger than 1 1/2''.

Using this trim system there is no need to double up the rim. Any kind of 3/4 skirting/faceing material can be used. If the skirting is less than 3/4'' say beval sidding the trim can be 3/4'' or even less.

With a border detail of say 3'' or so the framing has to be done to support it,then the endgrain trim will fasten to that.

I dont use redwood for anything on a deck project anymore too much sapwood is allowed in the grade now days and for the most part its all second growth. J.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2007 at 5:54PM
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john_hyatt

Tom that is some major framing!! I cant see any problems down the road with the structrue.

I am not understanding the inset tenon, or what use you plan to put them to. John

    Bookmark   August 20, 2007 at 6:27PM
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riles_j

John

I believe this is what you are talking about. Do you drive the screw through the end of the decking like I have shown here? I also think the question has been asked a few times, but I couldn't find a response as to whether you have used this technique across the top of stairs where foot trafic would seem to want to peel this trim off.

Thanks.

    Bookmark   August 21, 2007 at 5:27PM
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john_hyatt

Yup,just like that. It takes a practiced hand with the worm drive saw to make that cut. I install with tightbond 111 glue although a person could use the 490 adhesive its more heavy bodied.
Little trick>> if the saw cut is a little ragged in places the glue/adhesive can be talked into standing proud , decking sawdust rubbed into this little area in a timely nature with a orbital sanding can be very forgivingI use solid skirting for the most part it bumps the trim and adds some support like the stair treads that get a fair amount of traffic. Works for me. J.

    Bookmark   August 21, 2007 at 7:11PM
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dooer

That's not quite the way we do it.

Our fascia and rimjoist are one and the same. In our case 2x12 select heart or better redwood.

We then take your trim piece and rotate it verticle and cover the seam between the decking and the fascia.

I would post a drawing or a pic, but I don't know how to do it. But I can link a pic.

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   August 21, 2007 at 10:03PM
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riles_j

John / Dooer,

Thankyou very much for taking the time to help me to understand.

riles

    Bookmark   August 22, 2007 at 8:50AM
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asullivan

John,

Do you experience any problems over the long term with gluing the end grain trim piece to the actual end grain of the deck boards. My concern is with the expansion and contraction of the deck boards glued against a non-end grain piece - the movement would not be the same.

Just curious if they poses a problem?

Thanks

    Bookmark   May 16, 2008 at 3:31PM
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brooklyndecks

Sully,

I was a cabinet maker before I ever built a deck, and I know what you're talkin about. If you build a breadboard edge table, you have to account for wood movement. If you attempt to do that outside in the sun, you are going to have problems.

steve

    Bookmark   May 16, 2008 at 4:54PM
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john_hyatt

I have been installing endgrain trim on ipe and every other kind of decking material for hmmmm 20 years or so with no problems you guys are talking about.

It is a long standing rule not to do this with furniture building, now why it works for me outside?? Well Folks I have this green/blue stone I found in the hills of New Mexico along the road Jim Morrison saw his vision. I was on my Harley riding into the sunset when it caught me solid in the right eye,like a beam. After I held it in my hand...the endgrain trim started to work in any weather and with any material. J.

    Bookmark   May 16, 2008 at 5:52PM
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jdspates

Sorry to resurrect this topic but I have one question. When you rip the board to create the trim you will have a flat surface that will be glued to the ends of the other decking boards. If you are intalling this all the way around the deck what do you do when you are fastening the trim to the sides of the decking boards (instead of the ends) which are somewhat rounded or does this not matter. Maybe they are not as round as I am picturing because I have not received my 1 x 6 decking yet. Thanks for your help,

Jesse

    Bookmark   April 8, 2010 at 1:24PM
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riles_j

Jesse,

You should rip the boards to remove the rounded edge. Then you can butt the trim right up to it.

Riles

    Bookmark   April 12, 2010 at 2:03PM
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brnelson

I know this forum thread is old but I am getting ready to order ipe decking and have learned quite a bit reading this thread above. I am thinking about picture framing my runs of 1x6 deck boards with 2 courses of 1x4 deck boards. Since there are no exposed end cuts I was just going to overlap the 1x4 deck boards about 1/2 to 3/4 inch over the rim joist trim and router the overlapped ends. Wouldn't this accomplish the same look as the glued on trim piece? I know it won't cover the joint between trim fascia and the deckboards like the breadboard edging detail. I don't want to add extra work to my project by adding the trim piece if the overlapped picture framed boards will give me about the same look.

I am picture framing the deck into multiple sections to to eliminate deck board butt splices. Are there problems with picture framing a deck that I need to be aware of?

I was also thinking of the deckmaster grabber hidden fastener system to secure the deck boards. It looks better than the ipe clip system as an actual screw gets driven at an angle into the bottom of the boards. Here's a link to their website: http://www.grabberman.com/Deckmaster
Any reason not to do this? I don't really want to screw them down from the top and then plug all the holes. Any feedback on my questions would be appreciated

Here is a link that might be useful: deckmaster hidden fastener system

    Bookmark   March 24, 2012 at 3:15PM
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