Check valve? Pump says no; Heater says yes.

heretopleaseMarch 26, 2009

My equipment is below the pool surface line.

Page 35 of VS-SVRS Install guide:

"Check valves must NOT be installed on the suction or discharge side of the pump. Also, IntelliFlo pumps

cannot be used in series with other pumps"

http://www.staritepool.com/pdfs/IntelliFloSVRSOM.pdf

Page 12 of Mastertemp Install guide:

"Install the chemical feeder downstream of the heater. INSTALL a chemical resistant one-way check valve between the

heater and the chemical feeder to prevent back-siphoning through the heater when the pump is off."

http://www.staritepool.com/pdfs/MasterTempOM.pdf

Is this "Check" or "Checkmate"?

Hope there is an answer. Thanks again.

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poolguynj

Is there a need for a check valve on the suction side?

Putting one between the heater and an erosion feeder may be prudent however, it won't be needed for a salt cell. One may be needed if a spa is raised on the spa return lines to prevent siphoning when the system is off.

Scott

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 6:14PM
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huskyridor

quote" Is there a need for a check valve on the suction side? "quote

I place Jandy trap door check valves on my suction lines when the pool equipment is noticeably higher than the pool level because I've found buyers don't remember to close the valves when opening the lid to clean the pump strainer basket. Then they don't have the patience to nurse the valves one at a time trying to re-establish the prime. It's easier to call me to do it, LOL!!!!!
I've found that the check valves save me the phone call.

See ya,
Kelly

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 7:25PM
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just-a-pb

Hereto,
Need a little more info, what type of chemical feeder are you using?

The reason a check valve is not allowed is becuse it is an SVRS. If there was an entrapment (unlikely on new installs) the pump sees this and turns off. If there is a check valve on the system it would slam shut keeping the vacuum and not releasing the entrapment. To protect their butts, they have to put that in there.

If you are using an errosion feeder you can kill your heater quickly by not having a checkvalve between the two.
If you are building new and want to use a chlor feeder use a deck chlor that keeps the chlorine seperate from the plumbing system, or have a dedicated line that feeds the chlorine into the pool, that way you can put a check valve on it.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 7:27PM
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heretoplease

Thanks for so much response!

These are the details of the pool:

16,000gal pool + 850gal spa circa. 1982
Pool pump returned to 2 ports in pool and 1 in spa(makeup) or 2 of 6 jets in spa
Spa has booster pump returning thru 4 of 6 jets
Spa drain is plumbed for both pumps.

All lines are 2" except: spa 2 jet line 1.5", spa makeup 1.25", pressure side cleaner 1.5", pool 2 jet 1.5"

10 Fafco solar panels, all 2" to panels.

I plan on going with one pump and combining the jets in the spa.

The equipment pad is 3' to 3.5' lower than the pool.

The spa waterline if 1' higher than the pool
Since the spa has only one drain I want to protect my daughters.

Does the spa being higher than the equipment by 4'to 4.5' present a problem too.
page 35:
"4. Do not install the pump more than (8) feet above the water level or three (3) feet below water level"

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 8:13PM
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poolguynj

Yes it does. It was one the reasons I was hoping you would build up the area for the equipment pad, though I didn't realize it was that far below the water line. I would have said something about it earlier.

Scott

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 8:33PM
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just-a-pb

Hereto,
I applaude what you are trying to do. Add protection, and save some money.

I am assuming that there is a single drain in the spa.
If this is correct and you really want to protect your daughter, have the drain changed to a duel port or other unblockable drain.

THE SVRS DOES NOT PROTECT AGAINST EVISERATION.
(google it, I dont even like thinking about it)

This is a major hazard, the only way to prevent it is with a duel drain system, and proper anti vortex drain covers.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 8:34PM
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heretoplease

Just a pb.

"If this is correct and you really want to protect your daughter, have the drain changed to a duel port or other unblockable drain"

My wife is an ICU nurse. For some reason she describes this stuff over a plate of lasagna. I too do not like to think about it.

No drain cover upgrades available? Would I have the drain dug out and the duels put in? What is the "other unblockable drain" you mentioned?

Poolguynj,
Your advise has helped out very much.
I blew it by not thinking about the spa height untill recently. This has been part of my thinking of elevating my pump to a height between the pool level and the filter/heater height. This will keep the equipment out of sight from the entertainment area.

Can the pump be placed at this height above the filter/heater and below the waterline?

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 9:07PM
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pooldoctorstl

just-a-pb is right. Eviseration happens too fast and the inertia of the moving water can't stop fast enough. An SVRS won't stop it.

Are you re-plastering the spa? If so, cut out the single drain frame/grate and install a large unblockable VGB2008 approved frame and grate over the existing sump. Or you can install a dual drain system in it.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2009 at 9:10PM
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heretoplease

I blew it by not thinking about the spa height untill recently. This has been part of my thinking of elevating my pump to a height between the pool level and the filter/heater height. This will keep the equipment out of sight from the entertainment area.

Can the pump be placed at this height above the filter/heater and below the waterline?

    Bookmark   March 27, 2009 at 12:14PM
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poolguynj

All drain covers sold today must be VGB-2008 compliant. They will be stamped somewhere about VGB-2008 or VGB-2007 A112.19.8 which is the ANSI-ASME code. They are very difficult to block or get tangled hair and jewelry entrapments with.

If a direct fit isn't possible, adapters are available.

Why do you want to hide the equipment? Can't a hedge row hide it? It's not going to make a lot of noise.

If you decide to bring the pump only above the water line of the pool, make sure it's stable enough to withstand high winds. A simple stack of cinder blocks in not sturdy enough. It would be a real bummer if it blew over because of 50 mph gust in a thunderstorm. The plumbing won't hold the weight. The snap would likely happen below the waterline by feet abd a siphon would start.

Remember to have 8" before any fittings such as Ts, valves, and 90s in front of and on top of the pump. Watch where you put the power and control cables too.

Scott

    Bookmark   March 27, 2009 at 12:47PM
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tsunami

heretoplease wrote

"16,000gal pool + 850gal spa circa. 1982
Pool pump returned to 2 ports in pool and 1 in spa(makeup) or 2 of 6 jets in spa
Spa has booster pump returning thru 4 of 6 jets
Spa drain is plumbed for both pumps"

Since the spa drain is plumbed for both pumps, wouldn't that tie in both the pool drain and the spa drain, making it a dual drain systen, and thus eliminating the entrapment hazard?

    Bookmark   March 28, 2009 at 3:04AM
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heretoplease

Thanks tsunami.
It is true the drain is plumbed for both pumps. When in spa mode the 3way valve will have the pool drain closed so I don't heat the cooler pool water and send it to the spa.

Poolguynj, the pool equipment was originally placed low to hide from one of the better view spots on the property, when the pool was built. We are mostly stuck with the plumbing in this area.

Will there be any strange effects with the pump higher than the heater/filter and SWG?
Does anybody have a picture of a setup like this?

Thanks again.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2009 at 11:39AM
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poolguynj

Hydraulically speaking, the only thing I can think of is the added head loss from the longer and higher pipes.

Watch where you put your power and control lines. Secure and vertical pipe runs more than 3 feet to minimize vibration.

Good Luck!

    Bookmark   March 28, 2009 at 1:20PM
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heretoplease

Thanks poolguynj. I am finishing the new pad and wall that will surround the equipment. I will post the pictures soon. There will be more questions and I appreciate the answers that keep coming my way.

Bryan

    Bookmark   March 29, 2009 at 11:22AM
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