MaP Toilet ratings

rachellaNovember 16, 2012

Hi All,

I am so confused now - argh - renoing 3 bathrooms and went with the toto soiree for the master bath toilet - probably should have went with the porcher chapeau. have to replace the toilet in the powder room downstairs too and am curious about the American standard town square and the American Standard Cadet.

I looked at the MAP tests ( and the soiree comes in at only 600. I phoned the toto technical people and they still say there toilet is better - because you don't get splashing.

OMG this is sooo confusing. I really don't like renovating.

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I bought and installed 3 of the Toto Ultimate in 2003. As far as I know, no ratings existed at that time. The Toto Ultimate does not have very high MAP numbers. But we are very pleased with the toilets. One flapper failed about a year ago and the Fluidmaster replacement from Lowes, while not low cost, appears to be more durable than the original.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2012 at 9:14AM
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We have an Ultimate and a Drake. My parents have an Eco Drake and an Ultramax. If the Soiree is the 1.28gpf dual cyclone setup I see on Toto's website, I'd go with it. The Eco Drake has the same flush and works great.

The Ultimate is my least favorite. It has always been particular about how you flush it to keep it from clogging (hold the lever down until the trap glugs). I've replaced a flapper that disintegrated. To Toto's credit, they sent me free flappers when I asked about why that happened (nothing in the water that should've accelerated the rubber deteriorating).

Now the lever wants to sometimes stick down/open when you flush. Also, the fill valve has been sticking sometimes, too. So, you flush, then it takes several seconds before the valve opens to refill the tank. I've contemplated replacing the innards and upgrading it to be an Ultramax.

That's our oldest Toto (~10 yrs). The others (2 to 7 years) haven't had problems.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 10:34AM
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Terry Love

The MaP rating is a pretty basic rating that may not mean as much in real life.
The church that I go to has four Ultimate toilets, (MaP 325) four Ultramax (MaP 600) and two ADA Drakes (MaP 900)
Those have been in place for over ten years, performing flawlessly.

Before we demo'ed the old bathrooms, the American Standard Cadet's (five gallon versions) were plugging constantly.

Map only rates how much slippery plastic wrapped sliders will pass through. If you use them for human functions, it changes how well they work. It's interesting to see in real life usage how little the big numbers mean. I'm not dropping consistently sized plastic wrapped missiles down there.
Map also doesn't rate bowl wash. Or whether you can purchase replacement parts. Or the percentage of bowl returns because of defects. You might say, it's a test designed by an engineer that wants to keep his hands clean.
That's okay if you're playing video games or tic tac toe, but not particularly useful for someone that has to live with one in the home.

Is the Soriee a nice bowl? Yes.
I gave my GF a Drake II with double cyclone and Sanagloss; she thinks it's self cleaning.
It's not, but it's head and shoulders better then the Glacier Bay that we threw away.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2012 at 12:26PM
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I'm an engineer. And I get my hands dirty. And I like the MaP ratings. Let's see how many other sweeping generalizations I can confound.

I think the two-piece Totos have better performance than the one piece ones because they have a little bit more head due to the taller tank. If I was going to buy one, it'd be an Eco Drake hands down. The Soiree looks alright if looks win.

I'm waiting on the last few parts to rebuild our Ultimate as an Ultramax. The sticky lever has gotten bad enough that I had to do something.

    Bookmark   December 16, 2012 at 9:16PM
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