Redesigned layout without banquette? Help!

spartans99March 1, 2014

We are in limbo right now because our cabinet maker cannot have the cabinets ready until mid May. While we are happy to wait, it has, unfortunately, given DH too much time to think more about the banquette I was planning in the space. DH didn't really want the banquette in the first place and while I have been trying to convince him otherwise, he is now thinking we should eliminate the eat in space all together.

We have a dining room to the left of the kitchen that we can use for all of our meals. The family room is to the right. However, I would like to have at least two seats somewhere in the kitchen for the kids to have breakfast or for helpers or visitors while I am cooking.

DH has asked for some alternative options without the banquette. The latest layout we have come up with adds a peninsula to the mix and allows us to have a hutch (bottom right in picture), instead of the banquette. This reduces the doorwall to the deck from 60" down to a single 30 or 32" door. I am not sure how I feel about this new layout.

What else could we do with the space? Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you to everyone who has provided input on previous threads as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: Previous thread

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You can consider 15" deep cabs and o/h for the peninsula instead of 24" deep cabs. Then you can have a bigger door (not that 30-32" would be too small imo) and a wider aisle behind the seats.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 7:20AM
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I received your email but unfortunately I could not reply to it. Thank you for the kind words, I will be more than happy to help as soon as possible. Good luck!!!

This post was edited by SaltLife631 on Sun, Mar 2, 14 at 8:18

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 8:16AM
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I too love banquettes, but I think this layout looks great, although I don't have the expertise to analyze it!

Curious- I noticed your 6" and 9" "pantry" areas. Can you explain how they are built/look? I like how you seem to be making use of every little space which is exactly what I need to do in my kitchen! Thanks!

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 8:35AM
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sena01 - I like the idea of a deeper overhang especially if that's the only eating area in the kitchen. Thanks for that suggestion!

saltlife631 - thanks for the note. I thought I had my settings so I could receive email replies. I will double check my profile.

redjulie - the "pantries" are actually going to be slightly deeper than 6 & 9" each. We are working with a custom cabinet maker and he is able to squeeze every inch out of or space by modifying many of the cabinets. The idea behind these areas was to give us more efficient space for pantry / dry goods. I currently have a 27" wide x 24" deep x 80" high pantry cabinet. I hate having such deep pantry storage as it's hard to efficiently organize and things get jumbled around too much. Both new sections will open out into the aisle. The tall 9" deep cabinet will be next to the refrigerator and be full height with four doors (2 on top and two on bottom). It will have adjustable shelves and allow us to fit a ton of items. The 6" deep section will likely be two separate cabinets with two doors each and again, adjustable shelves. It will be opening to the aisle against the wall and be additional space for pantry type items. I know 6-9" isn't significant but after measuring items in my current pantry cabinet it appears 95% of our items will fit in those spaces.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 10:35AM
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Agree with Sena01 that a 32" door is too narrow. Def. think about the 15" deep cabs there (and probably there will only be enough room for 2 stools on the far side, btw).

I think your DH is on to something with this layout.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 10:47AM
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I know what you mean about deep pantries. Great solution!

    Bookmark   March 2, 2014 at 11:10AM
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Just a sample drawing below, but look at what happens if moving a doorway or both doorways from the dining room or the hall to someplace more convenient for kitchen planning purposes. If I also moved the hall door towards the family room...

I can tell you from experience is don't have a 30" wide exterior door as your only exit to the backyard. I've found that to be annoying as heck going back and forth with trays full of stuff. If the door starts off at 30", by the time you're done with trim, and stops, it ends up actually at 28", less if you do a storm or screen door too.

Also, draw the door on the above. They are almost 2" wide and the door needs to "store" someplace when its open and it might just hit furniture in the family room. If the door opens in the other direction, it will hit a stool or prevent one stool from being used.

Something else to know, you will lose a MINIMUM of 4.5" from your stated aisles in both directions for countertop overhangs. Over hangs are 1.5" per counter edge.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 7:27AM
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Thanks bmorepanic for that idea! Unfortunately, our deck doesn't extend that far to the left where you have moved it, so the door in that particular position would only work if we also chose to modify the deck outside. We are on a walk out and the door from the basement to the downstairs patio is right below that area. I am not sure if we would want to have a deck over it.

That said, I see the opportunity in moving the doorways as you show.

What about something like this? Island would be a total of 33" wide. I couldn't get the hutch cabinet depths to reduce, but they would only be 18" instead of 24" as shown in the drawing.

This would give the following aisle measurements:
- 39" aisle between sink/fridge run and island
- 42" aisle between range and island
- 36.5" aisle between island and back window/slider wall
- 64.5" from entrance to kitchen before "running into" island.

I took an idea I saw posted by cjc123 to come up with this. Am I over complicating this?

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 3:02PM
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Here is a view if I was standing outside looking in through a clear wall. We could add a prep sink on the island as well and include a counter height or regular table height section connected to the end of the island as shown here. I would have 45" between the table section and the hutch - which I know isn't ideal.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 3:05PM
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It does some things for you. Sorry below is big.

Orange is walking paths - since your kitchen is primarily a hallway (gosh, I feel guilty saying that!).

Who goes where and when? How many steps to what to get anything done and who do you trip over?

Distance between island and range is too little - particularly for newer ranges with bigger oven doors. Distance between table and falling off the platform is also too little. Ref and pantry are somewhat too far and on wrong side of island.

So, that led to variation below it. Cleans up paths maybe, adds a second prep space, ref and pantry area are near cooking without being behind an island.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 6:11PM
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Don't feel guilty about the hallway comment. Lol that's pretty much what it is with how narrow it is!

If we go back to the u shape we have today but make some modifications, this is what I come up with. Note the hutch area across from the table is drawn with 24" lowers but would be modified to 15" lowers.

Would going back to the u shape just make more sense? I am still drawn to the peninsula plus island but the narrow door to the deck is the problem. DH suggested we could eliminate that door all together and just replace it with a window. Then we would have to use our family room sliding doors to get outside which is ok but not optimal.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 6:34PM
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Here's the 3d of that layout.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 6:35PM
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If you're planning to change the DR room entry, I suggest a galley kitchen. My kitchen is just 15" narrower than yours, and I find my galley kitchen very functional.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2014 at 7:56PM
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Turn 11 into a real cabinet and cut 12 & 13? It's an "L" plus a straight run. It would feel more connected to seating and more connected to family room.

You could think about increasing the counter depth on the refrigerator side.. 27" ~ 30". That might sound scary expensive, but all it is is attaching some 2x4's on the wall and then the cabinets are screwed into the new 2x lumber instead of directly into the wall.

Cross between the peninsula and the openness of the gallery.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2014 at 11:47PM
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Thank you @bmorepanic and @sena01 for your feedback here! This process has been so much more stressful than I had anticipated.

We have taken your feedback and also met with a designer who helped us think through some additional space planning considerations with relationship to the family room and dining room. The latest plan we have come up with is a modified version of what you had both suggested.

- Partially open the wall between the dining room and kitchen to create a peninsula / pass through.
- Eliminates eat in space in main kitchen, but the dining room would serve as the primary eating area
- Adds a separate beverage center / wet bar area with peninsula into the family room - provides better setup for entertaining / access to both family room and deck/outside.

I would really appreciate any thoughts you have on this new plan.

    Bookmark   March 12, 2014 at 10:24AM
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View from peninsula / pass through (dining room and kitchen side) looking towards family room.

    Bookmark   March 12, 2014 at 10:25AM
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View from beverage center looking towards dining area

    Bookmark   March 12, 2014 at 10:27AM
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