kinetico 2030 - right model/right price?

puffycombOctober 16, 2007

the kinetico salesperson just quoted me $2790 for a mach 2030 (dual tank, no carbon filter). there are 2 people in our house with a 1 1/4" pipe. 2 questions:

1) is the mach 2030 series the right system for our needs?

2) is $2790 a reasonable price for this system? from what i've read in this forum, others seemed to have gotten higher end kinetico models (2040, 2060) for a lower price.

thanks in advance for your advice! we're hoping to order in the next day or 2 so any input would be greatly appreciated.

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puffycomb

also, here's what I found on ecowater vs. kinetico:

ecowater (ERR3500) $2395
grain capacity: 8300 @ 1.7 lb salt dose
efficiency: 4790 grains/lb

kinetico 2030 $2790
grain capacity: 7867 @ 1.8lb salt dose
efficiency: 4371 grains/lb

I don't understand how kinetico is touted to be more salt and water efficient given the above specs. It seems that ecowater is more salt efficient given the higher grain capacity and efficiency specs above. Am I interpreting these specs correctly? I am concerned that the salesperson may be boasting performance on a higher end model (e.g. 2040 with 5222 grains/lb salt) and actually selling me a lower end model.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2007 at 11:48PM
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andy_c

Not that you are putting the cart before the horse, but no system can be recommended before knowing the water quality to be treated. Without that knowledge, one is shooting blanks.

Could you please provide adequate data concerning the water being treated and your target quality. City, well? Hardness, iron, TDS, odors, etc.?

Let me hear from you and maybe I can resolve a few questions for you.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

    Bookmark   October 17, 2007 at 10:15AM
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asolo

Ditto andy C. Until you know what you're dealing with, further consideration is pointless.

    Bookmark   October 17, 2007 at 4:31PM
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puffycomb

city water, hardness is 10, around 256 ppm. no other known issues. can someone please give me a sense of the cost difference between a kinetico 2030 vs. a 2040? i've done a lot of research and read through every thread on this forum about water softeners, so no need to start from the top. thanks!

    Bookmark   October 17, 2007 at 7:44PM
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puffycomb

also, we have a 3100 sqft house with a 1 1/4" valve. would the 2030 give us a drop in pressure? my husband is very particular about his shower water pressure.

    Bookmark   October 17, 2007 at 7:47PM
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andy_c

Thanks for your reply.

Your TDS indicates you have other contaminates besides Calcium (hardness) but that may not be an issue for treatment. What is your chlorine/chloramine count? One would feel more confident knowing what those are.

I would not have recommended the 2030 model for a couple of reasons. It is designed for water containing iron. It has a freeboard (body of water above the resin bed) for 'flushing out' iron ions removed during service. Since you don't have that as an issue, you chould go with another, more effecient option.

Secondly, the in/outs on the 2030 are only 1" and you have 1.25" so ideally you would want to go with a system designed ofr your maximum water flow and least pressure loss, right?

Pressure loss is 15psi at 11 gallons per minute. That means two showers, laundry, dishwasher and a toilet all going at once before a a slight pressure loss is noticed.

Thirdly, the salt effeciency that you quoted earlier (5222 @ 1lb of salt) WAS referring to another model--the MACH 2040sOD, which has 1.25" in/outs and would well suit your exact needs in water flow, pressure loss and continuous treated water supply.

I can't speak for the pricing of an independent dealer but generally the 2040 run in the area of a 2030 but may be a couple hundred less, too. Those prices are higher than what I am used. I wonder what part of the country you are in?

There is a brand new 2040 on eBay right now!!!!

The EcoWater unit is fine piece of machinery. My only issue with the ERR3500 is that the carbon is sealed in with the resins. Carbon has a shelf-life and WILL need to be replaced. That involves a major service call and usually happens AFTER the warranty. Figure that into your operating costs.

Also, the carbon and resins seemed to mixed and when it backwashes they blend as they have roughly the specific gravity.

This results in that when the carbon needs to be replaced, the resin will probably need to be replaced as well--how do you seperate the two? Or, as happens over periods of time, the hard resins break the brittle carbon granuals into minute pieces (fines) and are backwashed out during reneration. This,of course, makes it easier to simply replace, rather than seperate, the two media, but nonetheless, it will have to be preformed somewhere done the line. Ask you EcoMan about this futurte service call. I may be mistaken and apologize if that is so.

There are other benefits to a twin tank, non-electric design but that has been mentioned and realized in your reseach, I am sure.

Hope this helped a little,

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

    Bookmark   October 18, 2007 at 10:34AM
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puffycomb

Hi Andy,

Many thanks for your reply. I did speak with our sales rep yesterday and asked about the 2030 vs 2040, and he claims that we do need the freeboard for water in our area and if he installed a 2040 he would also need to put in a prefilter which would cost me another $300. Sounds to me like a way of talking me out of using the 2040 unless I paid extra for it.

I'm not sure if the water in my area has iron. I know it's not well water. Would this website on the water in my county tell me anything about iron? http://www.acwd.org/wq_report.php5
As you can see I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Does that really justify significantly higher pricing on the kinetico? This is even after negotiation. The dealer is only willing to offer 1 year labor warranty then after that I have to pay $85 for each service call.

Finally, the dealer told me that there should be no pressure loss on the 2030 as it fits a 1 1/4" pipe. He also said he can set it up as overdrive to give me 20+ gpm pressure. Is all this true and is there any downside to setting a system in OD mode?

Thanks again for the answers to help me make an informed decision.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2007 at 1:53PM
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puffycomb

I called our county water dept and got the following on our water:

hardness: 9-12 grains
we have blend well & water purchased from san francisco, but it contains no iron whatsoever
pH: 7.5-7.7
chlorine: 1.8-2.0 mg/L

    Bookmark   October 18, 2007 at 2:09PM
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andy_c

Kinetico doesn't make and I have never heard of a 2030 set up as an Overdrive model, and I suspect there are reasons for that. You would either need to bump it up to a 2060od or a 2040od or 4040od.

Furthermore, the 2040 requires a prefilter since it is an upflow model with a packed bed. There should be NO extra cost for a prefilter. An owner can get a prefilter, himself, for about $45.00 installed. Make sure it is at least 20 microns.

Am I to assume that he didn't include a prefilter with the 2030, either, inclusive in the install?

I can't figure out why he would insist that you need a system with a freeboard unless there were high iron (1 ppm or more or high magnesium).

email me.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

    Bookmark   October 18, 2007 at 2:57PM
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puffycomb

thanks andy! based on your responses and my conversation with our water district, i have decided to not move forward with this kinetico dealer. there was just too many things that he told me that didn't check out. if i can't trust him now, i won't be able to trust him down the road.

    Bookmark   October 19, 2007 at 4:13AM
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