incontinence or just lazy?

NinapearlNovember 6, 2009

it's gonna be hard to keep this brief but i'll try.

3 year old, spayed, female great dane. she began leaving puddles in the house, usually on my bed or on the sofa. this isn't just small leaks, it's puddles, soaking puddles. began about 2 weeks ago.

took urine sample to vet. UTI...12 days clavamox. day 9, still leaving puddles.

the strange thing is, these puddles have absolutely NO odor and NO stain. i blot them with a white paper towel and it's like i'm blotting up water. it isn't drool, it is definitely urine. it always happens at the opposite end of her mouth. ;)

if this was due to the UTI, i would think i would have seen improvement after the first 3 or 4 days.

my vet put her on proin this week. but now, i'm beginning to wonder...she drinks a LOT of water while i'm doing horse chores because she spends 45 minutes flying up and down the fence, playing with the horses. i am finding these puddles usually between 7 and 8 p.m. she is dry all day and all night.

for the last 2 nights, i have made her go outside to pee at about 6:30 and again at about 8-8:30. no puddles. she's only taken the proin for 2 days. it's too soon to know if it is just the fact that she's drinking more and having to pee more but i wanted to post this to get some thoughts from you all.

what i can't figure out is the fact that there is no odor and no color to her urine when i find these puddles in the house. now, when she pees in the gravel outside, i SEE yellow. what's up with that??

what are your thoughts about discontinuing the proin, making her go outside between 6:30 and 8ish p.m. and seeing if that solves the problem?

i hope this made sense!

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trinigemini

Most house trained dogs do not go back on their training unless something is wrong. At least that has been my experience. If your girl is spayed she could be suffering from spay incontinence...my vet said sometimes the symptoms don't show up for years. I spoke to him recently because my dog....who is usually very good also started leaving spots on the sofa....where she sleeps. We took her to the vet and sure enough she had a UTI. As far as UTI's go...it depends how long your dog has had it ...UTI's spread quickly at least in humans so it is possible the meds have alot of work to do.

Now as for the proin...I used this med on my old girl who started having accidents in the house as well. I would not take your dog off it. Proin is usually given for incontinence and if your dog is house trained the chances are that she needs the meds. As a dog gets older the muscles get weak and they can't hold it in. Not sure why the Proin helps but it does.

If I were you I would continue doing what the vet says....even a dog that drinks too much water if trained will let the owner know they need to go potty.

Now I have only had experience with two dogs...so other opinions may vary. I'm only going from what I know.

Oh and as for the color and odor...well it happens to people too....sometimes you go potty, and it is yellow, other times it is clear....I believe it has something to do with the vitamins or waste and stuff in your body that produces the color....but if you drink alot of water and then go pee....well you will get clear pee that does not smell too, especially if you are going potty more often.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2009 at 1:00PM
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momof2doxies

It sounds like the urine is dilute from drinking so much water shortly before the accidents. I also would not take her off the Proin. If the accidents are only happening when she is laying down or sleeping that is a symptom of spay incontinence. Although she is younger than normally seen with this type of incontinence, it does happen. As trinigemini said, most dogs don't go backwards on the house training without something being wrong.

We have been going through testing and different med.'s for incontinence over the past year with our Lucy who is almost 2 y/o. Nothing worked for us, so earlier this week she had collagen injections done to make her urethra smaller. Her case was the extreme since she couldn't even jump down the steps without losing bladder control.

It sounds like your Vet. is on the right track.

Good Luck.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2009 at 1:45PM
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quasifish

My lab developed spay incontinence at 1 year of age and often did exactly what you described- huge, odorless puddles while sleeping, but if she was sent out to pee regularly, she would stay pretty dry. We tried to be in the habit of sending her out on a regular basis, but sometimes we'd forget or she'd fall into a deep sleep at an unusual time. I always figured that as she relaxed while sleeping, those muscles relaxed too and she didn't feel the leak being that the fluid was the same temp as she was. Thinking about it now, she slept in such a position that she leaked mostly on whatever she was lying on and never really on herself, so she probably wouldn't have felt wetness even after she woke up.

I'm not familiar with Proin. We used another RX that was more popular 20 years ago (because this was almost 20 years ago), and then later switched to a homeopathic product.

As far as your question about quitting the meds and sending her outside before bed time to see what happens- the worst thing that will happen if you test that theory is that you might have some puddles to clean up... your call :^)

    Bookmark   November 7, 2009 at 9:55AM
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prairie_love

Ask for the results of that UTI - there is more information there than just the infection (although abnormal readings might have been dismissed because of the infection).

The combination of drinking a LOT of water and inability to hold her urine suggests to me one of several possible kidney or endocrine issues.

We recently went through some testing with one of our dogs. One of the concerns was that she might have diabetes insipidus - which is not at all the same as diabetes mellitus - in DI the dog will drink a LOT and because of this cannot hold the urine. I would ask the vet about this possibility.

The reason it is colorless and odorless is because the water is just running right through her body - it is not being concentrated properly in the kidney.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2009 at 10:20AM
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Ninapearl

thanks, everybody, for your input. i have left her on the proin and also have been letting her out to potty a couple of times in the evenings. she has been dry for 3 days now. i do not imagine the proin had an immediate effect so i'm guessing she's dry because she's going out to pee instead of sleeping for 2 hours.

the proin will continue for the 7 days and then i will stop it. if i keep letting her out during the early evening hours and find no more puddles, i think it's safe to say she just simply wasn't waking from her deep sleep, much as you have said, quasifish.

prairieL, i don't know that there would be much other information since this was not a sterile sample. if this continues to be a problem, i will definitely pursue a more definitive diagnosis.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2009 at 4:23PM
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quasifish

One thing I didn't mention in my post, but maybe should have, was that our spay incontinence dog began drinking huge quantities of water about the same point the incontinence developed. We were very worried about diabetes, kidney problems, etc, but there was never any medical reason found for the water consumption except that she liked to drink a lot of water. She drank like that for the next 13 years. Once we got accustomed to the way she would drink, that was the norm, and we worried when her habits were anything different. I wonder if drinking a lot of water tends to go with spay incontinence?

    Bookmark   November 8, 2009 at 9:39AM
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Meghane

As already mentioned, it may not be just a UTI going on. Or it could be just a UTI but the bacteria is resistant to Clavamox (not uncommon). Best thing is to get a urine CULTURE (NOT A URINALYSIS) 3-5 days after finishing the antibiotic if she is still having symptoms. This will tell the vet if there is an infection and what antibiotics should work.

If there is no growth on the urine culture, then the vet must search for other causes of urinating in the house. The short list is diabetes mellitus, diabetes insipidus (rare), kidney disease, incontinence, dementia/forgot housetraining (rare in a dog of her age), urinary tract cancer (rare), or bladder stones (not uncommon).

PS- I never run a UA that has been caught by the owner, or anyone else for that matter. You can't tell what bacteria comes from the surface of the dog on the way out and what is actually in the bladder. I always get a cystocentesis, and save some urine for culture if the UA suggests an infection. I personally think caught samples are a waste of money, but I am not in the majority on that particular opinion. I AM right though, LOL!

    Bookmark   November 8, 2009 at 6:14PM
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Ninapearl

meghane, thanks for your input. this isn't really a matter of urinating "in the house"...it ONLY happens when she is asleep or very relaxed and usually ALWAYS on MY bed and during the late evening hours or in the middle of the night. *sigh*

the problem seemed to be resolved for the most part but i woke last night at 1 a.m. to a soaked bed. ugh! i will be calling my vet this morning and asking for a urinalysis, i'm not bothering to collect another sample from her.

    Bookmark   November 9, 2009 at 6:33AM
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laurel689

This happened with my 4 year old Corgi -- he was "wetting the bed". Turns out he has diabetes!

    Bookmark   November 9, 2009 at 9:46AM
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Ninapearl

wow laurel! hope your little guy is ok!

i came home from work today to a totally dry house. no puddles anywhere. not on my bed and not on any of the dog beds.

if this was diabetes or UTI, wouldn't i be finding wet spots at other times besides just in the evenings?? wouldn't that be the case even if this was a case of spay incontinence? mind you, this is a great dane. if she was peeing in the house during the daytime, i would know it, for sure!

    Bookmark   November 9, 2009 at 6:56PM
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