A love affair gone sour... or speaking of estimates

belle_vaMarch 27, 2013

Talk me back on the cliff... or keep me from jumping off... here's the deal. I am in the getting quotes stage of cabinet shopping. I have a few quotes now but have been waiting for PF. I HEART PF. Such nice paint. My kitchen- as you guys know- is tiny. I'm exploring making some changes thanks to Jakuvall but all of my quotes are based on exactly the same plan with all the same "upgrades" like cutlery dividers, pull-outs, under cabinet lighting. I was expecting P &F to be pricey and was willing to stretch because the paint finish makes my knees weak.

I received the quote today and it was nearly double my next highest quote. NO JOKE. (To me CP was my high $ dream! Ha!) I had a hard time remaining composed in the showroom. I am absolutely speechless. The next closest dealer is about 300 miles away. Is it worth it to ask them for a quote? Obviously they would not be able do the installation but I can sort that locally. I'd have to do that with Crown Point. And I am just really curious to know what it would price out elsewhere. Of course, this makes Crown Point look so very reasonable. Oy! ~Belle

This post was edited by belle_va on Thu, Mar 28, 13 at 18:44

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If you don't ask, you will never know. Buy you can also look at what you have that drives the prices up. Start with things like dividers. I got exactly one set of vertical dividers for my baking sheets rather than doing wire add-ons, but I didn't do any drawer inserts, etc from the manufacturer. Pull outs and under cabinet lighting coming from your manufacturer sound like they will also drive up the cost -- then look at customized sizes and find out what factors are driving your price up. It may be things other than the manufacturer that you can do something about. Maybe not, but again, if you don't ask, you won't know.

Two other lines with quality paint finishes are Brookhaven/Woodmode and Medallion. Medallion charged such a premium for theirs that we did better with Brookhaven even mixing in some Woodmode pieces. I don't have the options you are looking at down here, but I am not at all disappointed with what I have. They are great.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 2:19PM
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What the market will bear. It will only get worse. I would check with another dealer but keep looking. CP is very fine cabinetry and better than most can afford. Do you really think you'd be disappointed with another brand?

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 2:24PM
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Lascatx, I had not really even considered Brookhaven. I assumed they would be at least equal to (or more than P&F) but perhaps this particular showroom just has some kind of very high design fee bundled in... I guess I ought to check them out. I was ready to settle down and take the relationship to the next level...trying to shop for cabinets & working full-time is a challenge! I guess on the plus side, I am so much more educated now than when I started this process.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 2:35PM
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go online- to Barkers or Cabinet Joint,for starters... if you know your exact layout with each cabinet size. When there is not a lot of design detail to parse out, but you want good quality you should be able to do this kind of format.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 3:27PM
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Sorry to hear belle. From what I know that shouldn't be the difference. When I posted the layout I checked the price (completely done properly, shaker, paint, beaded inset) in a second brand that is competitive with P&F. (actually listed as more in the white shaker thread and that was without beading which they charge too much for) High margin puts it at 19

What doorstyle, is it a specialty finish or just paint?
Post a list of accessories.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 3:42PM
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Oh Jakuvall... don't you want to move south? Door is Vogue, regular inset, no glaze, just standard paint. The only fancy things were the paneled fridge, the wood hood and some roll outs on bottom cabinets, cutlery dividers & under-cab lighting. There was also some extraneous froo froo molding. I've asked everyone to include all of the above except lighting so I could get an apples to apples type estimate. I love P&F but I know there are other good options out there. I just hate to start the process again. I looked at Shiloh early on and was pretty impressed though they came in higher than I expected and it seems like soft-close drawers and real wood interiors are an up-charge. I really like Crown Point. I'm just worried about finding the right person to install locally since our uneven house will need some real attention to detail. It worries me too that they can't see the space in real life. But I am now feeling like their quote is pretty reasonable. (And when I say reasonable I mean reasonable given my weird set of "pretty" requirements. I think all of these lines are probably over-doing it for the house value/ neighborhood and that I could likely achieve a very good look with a full-overlay, more budget friendly line.) Oh BTW- did I tell you I've got someone coming to look at the space to tell me about cost for moving the window & to check on the stub wall to see if it is structural. You know I will keep you posted on that...

This post was edited by belle_va on Wed, Mar 27, 13 at 18:07

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 4:42PM
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Check the other dealer. And get a sample door from Crown Point.

Door is no big upcharge. Doesn't sound like anything there I did not account for. Just cabinets and lights? No install right. Lights for that kitchen are not much. More than 30k? Shocked.

A good installer with a properly detailed cabinet order takes care of an uneven house .i.e I lowered those two wall cabinets was to hide the difference in the ceiling, extend backs and sides where needed rest is a decent installer. .. has to be a few around.

Careful with Shiloh-just heard of two local dealers dropping them for QC issues, they approached my SWP rep.
. don't you want to move south?
hah-If the missus has her way... someday, closer to grandkids.

Have daughter in Wilmington NC, her husband is an installer down there and have bid jobs for him, they aren't getting those kinds of margins. Another moving to VA beach,.... But I like snow :) Besides I couldn't sleep charging margins like that.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 5:41PM
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I did 2 kitchens in 5 years, the most impressive cabs I saw to include P&F were Crown Point. We were told (5 years ago) when we toured they deliver and install. We are a few states away. Check out this web page, looks like they still do.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 5:49PM
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jakuvall: Not trying to hijack, but I have to ask: what QC with Shiloh specifically? I'm this close to going with them. Greatly appreciate any expanding on this topic that you could do.

To the OP: I hear ya on cabinet quotes. My kitchen isn't that big, either and the numbers I get make my stomach kinda of upset.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 5:50PM
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Deedles- where are you? There might be other good options for you, especially if you are not looking for painted inset cabinets. I think that is what limits me a bit. They looked very good and very solid in person but I am glad to have Jackuvall's thoughts on them. I definitely take very seriously the opinions of other consumers and KDs. I have bigger fish to fry in my life (health wise & work wise) so I need a drama free process. That said, I worry more about having a good people on my team because it is your designer/ installer/ etc who can make all the difference if mistakes happen. My dream= a great product, a collaborative, kind, great designer and an installer who loves the challenges of old houses!

Jakuvall- Wilmington is beautiful! I'd love to live on the water. I watch for jobs out that way sometimes..

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 6:06PM
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deedless- I don't know.
My Showplace rep had to ask if I objected to his bringing them on, they contacted him. There was no reason for him to elaborate or me to ask- neither of us believes in slamming the competition.

Could turn out to be just stupid KD's making mistakes, could be a problem.

If a problem it happens occasionally.... company goes through a bad stretch.It is a usually a headache for the dealer but the consumer (usually) gets taken care of if the dealer is any good. Happens a few times and a dealer starts to look elsewhere.
As I said just be careful...ask your dealer.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 6:20PM
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belle_va, I would get another quote from another dealer even if much farther away as I was surprised at how much I saved by going 1 hour West of me for buying my solid wood Durham Maple Bedroom Set in the sand white finish. I had wanted Inset cabinets so badly but now I may just go with frame-less full overlay as the layout of my kitchen will make three of my upper cabinets have the frame in the middle of the doors limiting what I can put in the cabinets.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 6:28PM
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have you considered working with a local custom cabinet maker? my kitchen is also tiny (10x13) and i was able to go custom and so glad i did! the cost was not substantially more and the extra functionality i got by going custom by all means justified custom. also inset cabinets. worth checking to be sure....

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 11:03PM
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Are you adding a hutch along the hallway wall?
or just the double galley?
A hutch could be adding 3-6k.
You might look at finding a free standing piece elsewhere, in an old house would certainly look like it belonged and could save a bit.

See if there is a QCCI dealer nearby. I simply had to know so checked pricing. Maybe you can find a more civilized dealer from them, you won't be disappointed in the finish or details by comparison. Worth a look.

The right dealer and your in the mid to upper teens (no hutch), though they do have a few rock stars (mid 20's).
BTW- t particular hood is a bargain from them which is a savings. Use a standard valance instead of a carved one, no corbels, can also can get the top section unfinished and faux paint locally to save a little more. Putting one on display here that way now.

Any news on the window and stub wall?

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 10:42AM
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Hey y'all. I definitely hope to add a built-in or some kind of storage on the empty wall. (I guess the layout of the kitchen will dictate what kind of storage.) My quotes have all included a new storage piece. I want it to have furniture details but I don't want it to be a piece of furniture. I have antiques all over the place but I want this to be modern, easy to open and close and designed to store really specific things. So I do want it to be the same cabinet line. My nearest QCCI dealer is about 80 miles away. I'll have a think about that... Contractor is coming on Saturday to talk through our space! He apparently has a custom cabinet person he likes so I guess I'll hear more about that option from him.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 2:57PM
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A hutch and a rock star put you in the range you heard from PF so no help unless you find civilized dealer.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 3:44PM
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You make me smile Jakuvall... long after my project is finished, I will still remember your way with words... rock star... civilized dealer... we have a new vocabulary! Thanks for the professional insight. (This feels a lot like buying a new car. I try to only do that about every ten years.)

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 3:53PM
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