PVC purple primer

randybAugust 26, 2009

Might sound silly but here goes. We spilled some PVC purple primer on our vinyl floor in the kitchen. It stained the floor. What will get that stuff up?

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alphonse

Nothing.
You might be able to remove some of the stain with acetone, but any material that dissolves the vinyl will permanently etch the surface.

    Bookmark   August 26, 2009 at 6:57AM
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randyb

you got to be kidding, nothing will clean it up without ruining my floor?

    Bookmark   August 26, 2009 at 7:19AM
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homebound

Hope it's not a big spot. You could try goof-off with Q-tips, or you could try diluting with clear pvc primer and wiping it up. But the floor finish will probably be affected in doing either of these.

    Bookmark   August 26, 2009 at 8:25AM
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alphonse

Nope. no kidding. The purple primer is formulated with a number of things that will damage your vinyl, chief among them tetrahydrofuran, the distinguishing chemical between PVC "cleaner" & "primer", which really bites into the plastic.
You could cut a dutchman if it's solid sheet, or excavate for a new tile if that's what's on the floor.

    Bookmark   August 26, 2009 at 12:59PM
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lazypup

While we commonly refer to PVC joints as glue joints, technically speaking that is not correct.

Tecnically speaking a glue is a filler material that adhers to the microscopic surface pores of a material and fills the gaps between the two materials being joined.

By contrast, PVC primer is formulated to break down the surface glaze of both the PVC pipe and fitting, exposing the core material to the glue. The glue then softens the core material of both the pipe and fitting and they then fuse into a solid piece in what is technically known as a chemical welding process.

Not that it will give you any help at this point, but in future keep in mind that PVC primer is made in two varieties, clear & with the purple dye. Both types are the same material and may be used interchangably.

Code requires that we must use primer before using glue, therefore in most jurisdictions they require us to use the primer with the purple dye for new construction so that the inspector can be assured that primer was used prior to gluing. Because the dye will make permanent stains on finished materials as you have well learned by now, generally we use the clear primer when doing rework or finish work over finished flooring materials.

    Bookmark   August 26, 2009 at 11:16PM
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manhattan42

Find a 'clear' PVC pipe primer and dab in on the 'purple' stained vinyl floor.

I have had luck in removing the purple stain from vinyl using that technique.

    Bookmark   August 27, 2009 at 11:39PM
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dave777_2009

Except for possibly the last suggestion (manhattan42) - you won't be getting that stain out.

Dabbing clear primer on the floor - will damage the surface more...

Hopefully you still have access to the same vinyl floor pattern. An almost invisible repair would be to cut out the damage area where you deem appropriate; and then glue in a new piece. Sealers are available for the edges of the repair - so that dirt doesn't get trapped in the 'edge'. Go to your local box store, or talk to a flooring store person. They can help you out.

And finally - primer is not necessary to getting a proper joint. It cleans the plastic as mentioned above, and is required by code - but it doesn't insure a good joint. Just having the pipe properly cut, dirt wiped off, and holding the glued joint together for 30 seconds - goes a long way. And no water or stress for 2 hours. The pvc glue bottle will state primer is not required...

    Bookmark   August 30, 2009 at 8:19PM
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alphonse

"And finally - primer is not necessary to getting a proper joint. It cleans the plastic as mentioned above, and is required by code - but it doesn't insure a good joint. Just having the pipe properly cut, dirt wiped off, and holding the glued joint together for 30 seconds - goes a long way. And no water or stress for 2 hours. The pvc glue bottle will state primer is not required..."

Every code in the country along with the manufacturers would dispute this.
Anecdotally, primers melt the contact layer and allow true solvent welding. Your method will work with new pipe & low pressures, but you won't find too many plumbers doing it. Following recommended procedures cuts down on callbacks.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2009 at 6:11AM
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jake2007

dave777_2009,

Telling people not to use primer is really bad advice. A joint coming apart will make a ruined kitchen floor seem like a minor problem by comparison. And the poor person who was gullible enough to follow your advice will absolutely be responsible and liable.

OP- Call in an experienced floor repair person. They will know how to cut out and repair the floor. That's really the only option if you aren't willing to live with it. Done well, you won't notice the repair.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2009 at 10:38AM
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bus_driver

Trying the clear as a solvent seems to have little downside. I would blot, not rub, immediately to get out all the color possible. It probably will kill the gloss in that area. Which is more important, color or gloss?

    Bookmark   August 31, 2009 at 7:38PM
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alphonse

To be clear about this (pun if you wish), although the purple stain may be removed, the surface of the vinyl has been altered from its surrounding area and will have both lack of gloss or surface finish, and will likely have a different texture at a lower level than surface.
Don't ask how I know this.

    Bookmark   September 1, 2009 at 5:17AM
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dave777_2009

Alphonse, & Jake -

I use primer on plastic pipe joints. This allows me to make sure (if a question arises) - that the joint was also glued. I have also glued some joints without using primer.

Haven't ever encountered a problem. My brother always had difficulties with plastic pipe joints - till I explained that the most important items were to HOLD the joint together for a few seconds after gluing; and to not use the pipe untill after the correct amount of time for curing.

My reference to primer not being actually needed - comes from the manufacturer. The reason primer is required is for inspections. Not for proper joints. That is the only reason I made the remark.

To quote direct from Oatey: (CPVC FlowGuard Gold)
"Where local codes permit, may be used without primer."

They desire their product to work. They desire to sell more product. But their product will work just fine thank you - without primer. I use primer. Code requires it. That is why I use it. But for a proper pipe glue joint - it is not required. Otherwise - Oatey who doesn't need a bad reputation - wouldn't be stating that if your particular area doesn't force you to use primer - you don't need to use it...

    Bookmark   September 8, 2009 at 12:02PM
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jake2007

That recommendation (that primer isn't needed where allowed by code) is specific to the FlowGuard Gold product only, as far as I can tell. They recommend using primer with their other CPVC products.

    Bookmark   September 8, 2009 at 1:40PM
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lazypup

Obviously Dave777 has either never sat in a real plumbing apprenticeship class or he slept through it.

The discussion about whether or not primer is required for making the joints was referring to PVC.

The Flow Gold product specifications he cites are for CPVC, which is an entirely different product.

Now in regards to whether the plumbing codes specify primer on PVC joints, the answer is NO. The plumbing codes do not specify how to make any joints, however the plumbing codes do specify that ALL JOINTS must be made in accordance with the guidelines specified by the ASTM (American Society of Testing & Materials) and the manufacturers specifications.

Under the ASTM guidelines you MUST use primer on all PVC joints.

it is not necessarily required on CPVC or ABS but it is recommended.

    Bookmark   September 8, 2009 at 9:28PM
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manhattan42

All respect due to Dave777 2009, but he is flat out wrong.

Primer is required and mandatory for nearly all plastic type pipes joints under nearly all plumbing codes.

In part, primer is required to remove any left-over wax applied to the pipe at the factory as it exits the extruding machines. It is this wax that allows the yet soft pipe to pass through these extrusion machines more easily.

Without priming plastic pipes to remove the wax, no solvent weld can be appropriately made.

That said, plastic solvent cemented pipes are not 'glued', they are 'solvent welded'.

What this means is that the solvent literally 'melts' the plastic to form a plastic weld. There is normally no 'gluing' by way of any mastic at any place in the process at all.

If the pipe is not properly cleaned by priming, no proper solvent weld will occur.

Most plumbing codes, as mentioned, require primers because the listing standards for the pipe requires them.

Under the IRC and IPC Plumbing Codes, primer is required for all CPVC (orange) and PVC (purple) pipe solvent welds. The color is only important to show the installer and inspectors that the joints have been properly primed, and that the proper primer has been applied to the proper pipe. (One cannot use CPVC primer on PVC pipe nor vice versa)

Some types of solvent for some types of pipe are 'self-priming' (like those for ABS and certain types of PVC for pool and spa fittings...if I remember correctly).

The bottom line remains, however, that priming plastic pipe is mandatory for most plastic pipe in most cases... not only from the Code perspective, but also from the manufacturer and 3rd party testing agency perspective that 'lists' the product and how it should be installed.

    Bookmark   September 8, 2009 at 10:25PM
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chris8796

I've seen this discussion many times on the need for primer. As chemist, I've looked into this question in the past. What I have found almost every manufacturer uses the almost the exact same solvent system for both primer and cement (MEK, THF, Acetone, and CH). The only difference is cement contains 15-20% PVC.

While the need to potentially remove a mould release agent seems plausible. It doesn't actually remove anything, since you just put the solvent on and let it evaporate. You don't wipe it to physically remove anything. As far as I can see, the main role of the primer is to soften the PVC before adding the cement. This would allow the PVC on the surface to solublize quickly and form a more homogenous weld. This is also why primer is supposed to be used immediately before joint formation. The joint is suppose to be cemented while the primered area is still wet or soft. Your not suppose to let the primer completely dry before cementing.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oatey FAQ #9

    Bookmark   September 11, 2009 at 10:56AM
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