Help with water Softener Selection

RayB1July 22, 2012

May you help me select a water softener system? do I need a reverse osmosis and whole house filtration systems based on these values below? We have Watts, Culligan and Kinetico in the area and EWS reps. Thank you in advance.

3 full baths, 2 half baths, airjet tub. 2 occupants initially potential for 4 total. Water tested by the DEQ:

Private well water, almost finished with construction, plumbing fixtures not in the home yet. Water obtained from outside tap.

Results:

Total Coliform and E.Coli: absent

Nitrite+nitrate: 1.14 mg/L

Lead total: Arsenic total: Chromium total: Specific Conductance: 1020 uMHO/CM

pH, liquid: 6.68 STD unit

Alkalinity, Total: 427 MG/L

Solids, Total Dissolved: 565 MG/L

Hardness, Total: 552 MG/L

Chloride: 67.2 MG/L

Sulfate: 40.4 MG/L

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justalurker

Ok, water softener 101 ...

Hit the Yellow Pages and call at least three local water treatment pros. Make sure you call at least one of the big dogs like Kinetico or Culligan for comparison and at least a couple independent pros. DON'T TELL THEM YOU HAD YOUR WATER TESTED.

Give each an opportunity to offer suggestions and provide you with a quote to meet your water treatment needs. IGNORE ANY THAT DON'T TEST YOUR WATER THEMSELVES as they can't speak intelligently to water treatment without knowing what needs to be treated.

Ask lots of questions. Warranty, parts & labor or just parts, how long and on exactly what? Install, permits required, licensed plumber? Routine maintenance and costs? Do they stock parts? Response time for emergency (water leak) calls? If they don't explain things to your satisfaction that is a good indicator of how you'll be treated after the sale.

After they've gone use your water test to compare with theirs. Are all your treatment needs being addressed?

Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experience. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid.

Come back here and post the specific recommendations and hardware components with the costs and we'll give you our opinions.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2012 at 5:42PM
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RayB1

One company recommended the following softener and also a 4 stage reverse osmosis system. Thank you.

Tank size: 10" x 54"
Media cu. ft.: 1.5
Line size: 3/4"-11/4"
Valvehead Metered: DTV-M
Installed Unit size: 10" x 63" with >>
Brine Tank: 16" x 34"
Salt capacity 300 lbs
Water flow (GPM): 10
Backwash (GPM): 4.

    Bookmark   July 24, 2012 at 9:05PM
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RayB1

One company recommended the following softener and also a 4 stage reverse osmosis system. What are your thoughts. Thank you.

32.3 grain/gallon of hardness
Tank size: 10" x 54"
Media cu. ft.: 1.5
Line size: 3/4"-11/4"
Valvehead Metered: DTV-M
Installed Unit size: 10" x 63" with >>
Brine Tank: 16" x 34"
Salt capacity 300 lbs
Water flow (GPM): 10
Backwash (GPM): 4.

    Bookmark   July 24, 2012 at 10:03PM
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RayB1

Updated Well water test results:

Total Coliform and E.Coli: absent
Nitrite+nitrate: 1.14 mg/L
Lead total: Arsenic total: Chromium total: Specific Conductance: 1020 uMHO/CM
pH, liquid: 6.68 STD unit
Alkalinity, Total: 427 MG/L
Solids, Total Dissolved: 565 MG/L
Hardness, Total: 552 MG/L
Chloride: 67.2 MG/L
Sulfate: 40.4 MG/L
32.3 grains/gallon of hardness

Local Kinetico recommendations:

The kinetico 2060s water softener model
Aquakinetic drinking water system A200 (reverse osmosis)

    Bookmark   July 28, 2012 at 12:16AM
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RayB1

Our builder has already installed a water softener system for our home. May you please evaluate the parameters to see if it's sufficient for our home? Thank you in advance.

Our data:
Updated Well water test results:
Total Coliform and E.Coli: absent
Nitrite+nitrate: 1.14 mg/L
Lead total: Arsenic total: Chromium total: Specific Conductance: 1020 uMHO/CM
pH, liquid: 6.68 STD unit
Alkalinity, Total: 427 MG/L
Solids, Total Dissolved: 565 MG/L
Hardness, Total: 552 MG/L
Chloride: 67.2 MG/L
Sulfate: 40.4 MG/L
32.3 grains/gallon of hardness

Installed water softener:

Capacity: (grains/lbs, NaCL): max 32,000 @15.0; Medium: 28,400 @ 9.0; Minimum 23,600 @ 6.0
Amount of Media (Cu. Ft.): 1.0
Maximum water hardness (gpg): 75
Maximum Iron (PPM): 1.0
Minimum pH Required: 7.0
Peak Flow Rate (GPM @ O-PSI): 17.1@ 15.0
Continuous Flow Rate (GPM @ P-PSI): 5.0@2.8
Water Pressure Range (PSI): 25-100
Water Temp(F): 33-100
Electrical Requirements (volts-hertz): 110-50/60
Pipe Size: 1"
Total dimensions Media tank: 10"W x 52"H; Brine Tank 18"W x 33"H.
Brine Refill: Min: 5:51, GAL: 3
Backwash: 8; 22
Brine & Rinse: 60; 24
Rapid Rinse: 4; 11
Total: 78; 60

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 8:04PM
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justalurker

Softener you listed is far too small in resin capacity which will mean very frequent regenerations wasting water, salt, and a much shorter service life for the softener. Also too low an SFR for your plumbing requirements. A 1 cu ft softener has an SFR of 9 gpm based on the resin volume. More than likely the control valve doe not match up to your 1" plumbing cause it might be a 3/4" valve.

A textbook example of why people should avoid builders and plumber when they need a water treatment professional. Your builder is either stupid or ignorant regarding water treatment or just plain greedy and wouldn't miss an opportunity to increase his/her profit.

I'd have your builder remove that softener and give you a full refund.

I'd also take a long hard look around your house to see where this builder cut corners and/or under specified fixtures and appliances and used lesser quality items where you wouldn't see them.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 8:35PM
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RayB1

Thank you Justalurker. What is your opinion with this system we are considering installing below. Thank you very much for your time.

Minimum/max operating pressure: 103.4-861.9 kPa (15-125 psi)
Max working pressure: 861.9 kPa (125 psi)
Minimum/Maximum Operating Temp: 2*C-49*C (35*F-120*F)
Service flow rate at 15 psi (or less) drop gpm: 11.6 (43.5 L/min)
Resin per tank, cu.ft.: 0.7
Capacity per cycle, grains: 12,481; 15,817
Grains exchanged per pound of salt: 4623; 3954
Salt used per cycle, lbs: 2.7; 4.0
Max flow rate to drain during regeneration, gpm: 2.5 (9.5 L/min.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 9:46PM
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justalurker

Your latest considered softener sounds like a Kinetico 2060S.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 10:33PM
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RayB1

Yes it is the Kinetico 2060S.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 10:58PM
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RayB1

Justaluker, I can't find a local water treatment professional who is willing to install in a residential. They are telling me to call Culligan in this area, but Culligan didn't come out to test our water. Told my DH that they have installed in that neighborhood prior. Kinetico did test our water. Do you have a fleck valve model that might work also? I don't mind going with the Kinetico if it will help.
Thank you again.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2012 at 11:08PM
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justalurker

I like the design but Kinetico seems to under size softeners and have them regenerate more often than an industry standard softener while not offering the SFR the installation requires. Regardless of what Kinetico claims resin manufacturers spec .7 cu ft of resin at 7 gpm SFR not at 15 gpm as Kinetico claims in a correctly sized resin tank. IMO the resin manufacturers know more about resin and its capabilities than Kinetico does

Kinetico makes a quality product that is expensive and completely proprietary. You'll be completely dependent on your Kinetico dealer for parts, service, and warranty. If you have a good dealer then you're set but if not you'll be very unhappy and will have spent a lot of money to learn a hard lesson.

With real estate it's location, location, location. With water treatment it's dealer, dealer, dealer.

Good luck.

    Bookmark   July 31, 2012 at 12:33AM
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