Yes or No to Easy Water (no-salt) water softener?

peopleloverMay 20, 2011

I started this thread to reply to Sam because the prior thread was closed. Sam says: "This kind of uninformed by bias or straight out lying has rendered this discussion virtually useless. Shame on you!"

Dear Sam, I share your frustration and your honest post moved me to give you my form of an answer. We too, (my husband and I) did quite a bit of research on no salt hard water treatment. We did confirm that the electronic technology used by Easywater does not technically soften but CONDITIONS the hard water, it does help prevent scaling, and removes pre existing scale. Upon deeper research we found another company, Aqua Genesis from California, who had been selling the Scalewatcher systems since even before Easywater came into existence. We learned that Easywater uses the same technology originally patented by Scalewatcher and we confirmed that both companies offer a good product which gives the promised results. We bought the Scalewatcher from because it was about half the price and it included a ten year warranty. I must say, the results have been short of miraculous, no more scale anywhere, cleaning counter-tops and shower doors is now a breeze and my husband is delighted because he doesn�t need to be dipping the scaled showerheads in acid any longer. I hope that my personal experience is of service to you and others. I am a retired school teacher with a big computer & a lot of time on my hands; helping people be green makes me happy.

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I guess this is why companies post testimonials - people believe anecdotal "evidence" over measurement and analysis. The problem here is that the argument is between anecdote that can't be proven and scientific principle which is difficult for many people to understand. Unfortunately, it will stay that way until actual independent, repeatable, controlled testing is performed. I, for one, look forward to seeing such testing. In the mean time, I won't use my family's resources on unproven technology.

    Bookmark   May 21, 2011 at 9:19AM
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"it does help prevent scaling, and removes pre existing scale."

There is NO EVIDENCE from actual controlled studies that shows this (except by the folks peddling the ir rip-off ineffective products).

    Bookmark   May 21, 2011 at 10:33AM
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How does one determine that the plumbing scale is gone? Cut pipes open and inspect them?

I have seen dozens of these things not working and customers are very disappointed. In fact, I have never met anyone that is even a little satisfied with them.

    Bookmark   May 21, 2011 at 10:35PM
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I have two things to contribute. Before I bought our Scalewatcher I found Independent Research done by a University Engineering Lab. proving the effectiveness here:
And a nice comparison of both EasyWater and Scalewatcher done by a property management company who confirmed that both remove scale at the bottom of this page:
Andy c asks: "How does one determine that the plumbing scale is gone?" If you see the scale in your shower-head gone that is the external indication of what's happening inside your pipes and water heater, no need to cut pipes to inspect them.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2011 at 12:04PM
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First an admission in case it offends the rules of this board. My company was responsible for getting Scalewatcher off the ground. We introduced it into the UK market in 1989 and helped Jan de Baat Doelman (the patent holder) get it into the USA in 1991. We no longer have any involvement in the US, as we decided to concentrate on commercial and industrial clients only. We now make our own version with his blessing, unlike all the others who have copied it, (many in the US) patents do no more than make lawyers rich unfortuneately.
I fully understand Alice's frustration regarding independant testing and proof, we as a manufacturer are equally frustrated that academics dismiss it because we cannot explain its operation in terms they understand. Excuse me! It is they that should have the ability of explaining the many successes we and others achieve.
For example, explain why we regularly measure the efficacy on client's systems by logging improvements in recovery temperatures just a few months after installation.
Explain why there has been a massive reduction in shower quality and hot water complaints at the largest Holiday Inn in the world, since installation, despite one of the coldest winters in UK since records began.
Explain why, after 3 months, there is always an automatic 30 - 50% drop in chlorine demand in a swimming pool, with dramatic improvements in turbidity.

I could go on, but it will fall on deaf ears.

The problem, if only Alice and doubters should realise, is the potential massive cost of testing to small growing companies. We turn over just a million and half dollars and make enough profit to allow us to sleep well at nights. We simply cannot afford the massive sums required to pay some well qualified person to heat tons of water (time, water and fuel are expensive)and spend hours measuring, only to confitm to us what our customers already know, it works!
We have a well-designed test rig running in our office in Fareham Hampshire (which sits on the chalk Downs that extend to the white cliffs of Dover the water is hard!) and after 2 years running 24/7 heating water to 80 degrees Centigrade and replacing water with cold fresh every 5 minutes, guess what, we have been unable to grow scale consistantly, let alone carry out our objective of proving the ability to remove it.
Alice, we have assisted a company who carry out scale prevention testing for chemical inhibitors, to test our ability to reduce scaling. If you are interested, let me know and I shall email you a copy (if that is possible).
Alice, I have seen your comments on another board, regarding our University of Portsmouth test. I accept it is not scientific, it cost us a lot of money, when we were in our infancy. The test was never going to be scientific, the purpose of it was to give the UK Advertising Stands Authority confidence we were not ripping folks off.

    Bookmark   May 27, 2011 at 11:48AM
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Any permanently installed, non-adjustable device that removes scale from pipes is dangerous to your pipes. That kind of activity would indicate that the water is being turned corrosive and will eventually put holes in the pipes.

Note that this comment does not constitute any endorsement of the products mentioned in previous posts to this thread nor does it indicate any belief on my part that any of the products remove scale.

    Bookmark   May 27, 2011 at 2:24PM
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Even the "independent research" is Bovine Scatology.

Right in the pdf of the 'research it says "The Scalewatcher magnetic coil was initially installed around the 22 mm cold water pipe from the header to the cylinder by staff from Etcetera Marketing."

And later on "On th eadvice of Etcetera Marketing the Scalewatcher was repositioned...".

This is NOT how University level research is performed.

A test sequence is developed and agreed to by all participants BEFORE anything is started.
It is NOT changed or altered during the test.

There is NO information as to the hardness level of the water used in the test. That would be a basic requirement to verify that something designed to prevent scale was actually operating on water that had at least some level of hardness.

I would bet money that "Etcetera Marketing" actually paid the professor for the work, and from the profs own comments he allowed them to participate to some degree in the test.

I wonder if the dear prof has a financial interest in Etcetera Marketing?

Research would involve demonstrating that the method CHANGES the ions present in the water, not by flushing the results of the test down the drain with no analysis or testing.

The research is of no value, and is not from any type of refereed journal or publication.

    Bookmark   May 27, 2011 at 4:13PM
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As I am always interested in new tech, I will take John up on his generous offer to email test results. I look forward to seeing them. As someone who has done extensive testing in industrial water treatment, I would be perfectly happy with a study conducted at an actual facility. Those don't cost millions, perhaps thousands. Always, always, always, at the very least, they should include analysis of water in and blowdown, as well as at least one corrosion coupon (generally I prefer three - carbon, stainless, brass or copper), a direct-heated tube of the material as facility heat-exchange tubes to watch scale formation, and a controlled, controlled flow rate (typically quite low) to best simulate actual conditions. Those are the minimum requirements.

I must say, it is in no way, shape, or form the responsibility of academics to prove a marketed product - that is fully and completely the responsibility of those selling it. The problem has never been that you can't explain your product in a way that experts can understand - it has been that you can't explain your product in a way that meets even the most basic scientific principals, or that the way these products work has been explained in ways that make no logical or scientific sense. Those issues will always immediately cause a product and its marketers to be suspect. Now, if it cannot be explained but does actually work, prove it. Even a simple, inexpensive test can do so if conducted properly, which is why the absence of such testing leaves me to conclude, until I see evidence to the contrary, that it cannot be done because the products cannot do what is claimed. I would love to be proven wrong - I hate lugging 40# bags of salt at home. I would have been a hero at work if I could have saved the several hundred thousand dollars annually spent on water treatment chemicals, but not a single one of the water conditioner companies would ever come out to do a test. They all expected the consumer to bear the entire risk.

    Bookmark   May 27, 2011 at 4:58PM
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"I hate lugging 40# bags of salt at home......but not a single one of the water conditioner companies would ever come out to do a test. They all expected the consumer to bear the entire risk."

There's the homeowner's nut. Water softeners are entirely straightforward that way. You measure the hardness level inbound and verify soft outbound. Homeowner and vendor right there to see the process. Doubters can bring other people in to verify if there's any suspicion. That's it. They all do the same thing the same way. Just a matter of sizing and quality and service choices remaining. Whatever you buy will work. You'll know the difference in-use the first time you wash your hands -- no waiting for anything.

If the de-scaling folks could show me something as straightforward as that, I'd be very interested.

    Bookmark   May 27, 2011 at 5:23PM
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I have reviewed the test results John was kind enough to provide to me. John, I do appreciate the information. The tests were singular, incomplete and inconclusive and, by design, not intended to be comprehensive. One device tested, the Enigma (I am not familiar with this particular device) appears interesting, but with only one test result on a very short test it is impossible to say whether or not it works. The idea does appear to have some potential, but not if applied in the manner specified.

I still keep coming back to one major issue: consumers are not guinea pigs, nor are they typically capable of objective testing (purely a lack of instrumentation and a knowledge, no reflection on intelligence whatsoever). Anecdotal 'evidence' is always suspect due to the placebo effect.

It is not, and should not be, the responsibility of the consumer to provide product testing for items of this nature. That risk should lie solely with the individuals and companies developing and selling the product. Does such testing cost money? Absolutely. That is just the cost of doing business responsibly.

Devices of this nature have been around for decades with no "aha!" moment. Their resurgence now seems to have more to do with politics than results. Are they better than softeners? Nope. Are they as good as softeners? Nope. Are they better than nothing if softeners are outlawed for largely political reasons? Possibly, but the current application method is suspect.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2011 at 1:45PM
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I thought this thread on the topic was interesting and impartial: Scalewatcher in RV

Same level of impartiality observed here on a different product: Next ScaleStop in home

My favorite recent find is this: ASU study/experiment.

I emailed the prof. that ran the study and he confirmed the presentation was not a hoax or tampered with. Despite the success of Next ScaleStop in that study, I have no intention of buying into it because of the costly media that has to be replaced every 3 to 5 years. However, the results do confirm the "voodoo" and "snake oil" found in various ScaleStop marketing pieces out there, like this one, this DVGW test and this interesting comparison to Filtersorb.

Found a Soft Water Advice forum, mainly moderated by plumbers, many of them here in my home state, some in Texas and elsewhere, where most of them claim to have great results with ScaleStop in residential installations. See this thread as one example.

In case anyone cares, I have an ancient water softener that came with my home that is not fairing very well. I couldn't care less about soap consumption and dubious (to me) claims about salt fouling the environment. I want the hardness in my water. I gave up dairy long ago and need to get my calcium from other sources. But I don't care for scale buildup, which seems to have worsened since phosphates were removed from dishwasher detergent. So I'm looking for something that helps prevent hard water deposits, not softening, and doesn't require the inconvenience of monthly salt additions.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 6:38PM
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CDI has always had potential. Of those mentioned in your links, it is the only one that actually removes calcium and magnesium, softening the water. The problem with it has never been that it doesn't work, but that it is still far too expensive to operate.

TAC has shown potential as well, but studies have not yet addressed the problem of re-dissolution of crystals over time.

The others (such as EasyWater) are still voodoo, relying on testimonial rather than science to sell. The above referenced ASU study, although it showed some improvement over no treatment, still showed significant scale buildup, enough that the "treatment" would make little difference in the life of your appliances. But, it's a free county so you are, of course, free to spend you money however you see fit.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 7:51PM
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This message is for (peoplelover) I saw your post regarding the (scale watcher water conditioning system you purchased some time ago.) I am now researching various units and I really like the (scale watcher) unit myself and was wondering if you could give me an update on if your unit is performing to the manufacterers specifications and if you are completely happy with it's performence?


    Bookmark   April 24, 2012 at 2:31PM
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Hello everyone I am a new member, can anyone tell me if (peoplelover) is still a member? I sent her a message and have not heard from her I am eager to find out if (peoplelover) is happy with the performance of the (scalewatcher) she purchased some time ago. I am also most eager and interested in purchasing the (scalewatcher) water treatment system and was hoping to get (peoplelover's) feed back first. Looking forward to hearing from anyone regarding my dilimma.


    Bookmark   April 25, 2012 at 11:46AM
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Sorry, jerryj35, but peoplelover appears to have been a shill for aquagenesisusa. S/he only posted a couple of times to talk about aquagenesisusa, then disappeared.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2012 at 1:50PM
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Hello, This is my first posting here. Let me start by saying that I was, up until a decade ago, when I retired, a commission earning representative for John Thompson, and with him in the early days of a steep learning curve. I worked his leads as well as prospecting my own, and at one time was covering many parts of the country, from my home in Humberside. The British are notoriously cynical, especially when it comes to introducing relatively new technology, despite successes achieved elsewhere, by the Russians, for example, on ships as well as in factories, using "only" permanent magnets. One of the first successes I had, however, was at the Nissan motor manufacturing plant in my home town of Sunderland. The problem I was shown was, quite simply, in the pumps which mixed town water with their anti-freeze for the car radiators. I installed units on the steel water supply pipes on the then Micra model assembly lines. Subsequently, the engineer with whom I had dealt told me had stood on his desk and called out to all his colleagues that he had got rid of a persistent scaling problem.
Eventually more work came from that site, and, on the back of those successes, business with the Royal Hospital, Sunderland University, Dunlop Tyres and several other smaller establishments, such as hotels and nursing homes.
I can only speak as I found, sometimes quite startlingly quick results, such as on the effluent discharge tanks at the Pfizer sewerage/chemical treatment plant at Sandwich - the engineer in charge calling me in after only 6 weeks to personally show me, by contrast, just how clean they were! (For the record, an industrially powered/sized unit was installed on the 6" stainless steel final flow to both tanks.)
I would never learn how much profitability was increased at a Saudi Arabian gold mine, but two quite dissimilar applications were treated successfully there. Finally, I would mention another success, this time on a large cooling tower pond, where not only scale was cleared away, but algae - an ongoing problem because of exposure to sunlight - also.
So there you have it - or you don't - depending upon your individual perspectives, and willingness to try things without years of scientific research. Certainly the foregoing achievements were obtained for relatively modest outlay, with no ongoing maintenance costs, and almost nominal usage of electrical power required.
I should just mention that I have only recently returned to England, after living almost 9 years in France, and have had no contact with John in that time.
George Turnbull

    Bookmark   May 11, 2012 at 10:03AM
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The problem I was shown was, quite simply, in the pumps which mixed town water with their anti-freeze for the car radiators.

If nothing else, that makes me glad I don't own a Nissan made in that factory. Tower water in a radiator. Yikes.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2012 at 11:09AM
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What the heck. Time to bump up "The Thread That Never Dies" again. Spent the last hour or so reading this (and the previous related) thread posts - yes all 170+, all the way back to January 2008 and I'm here as an actual user of the Pelican "salt free water SOFTENER/conditioner" (their sales claim) model NS6, list price: $3,000 USD retail.

In a nutshell: "The emperor has NO CLOTHES, PEOPLE!!" If it sounds too good to be true; it IS. We gave it the full 90 days we were allowed before we would lose any chance of claiming their money-back guarantee and are now attempting to send it back ASAP.

This technology/equipment did not work at all for us AT ALL. We have found that in the last 3 months the quality (look, feel) of our water has deteriorated noticeably. Additionally, our plumbing fixtures and equipment are all functioning and looking noticeably poorer. There is more build-up of particles on every surface, visible thick opaque fogging on the many transparent hoses we use (we have a farm with a small-scale goat cheese dairy) that we have not been able to remove, even with strong commercial dairy cleansers. We also suspect this system is implicated as at least a contributing factor in some herd-wide nutritional issues (specifically some very particular mineral deficiencies) we identified in our herd soon after the unit's installation.

I was suspicious of this technology from the moment my spouse brought it to my attention but in the interest of marital harmony agreed to give it a try. Admittedly, I was also hoping that our days of lugging bags of salt were over (we ain't getting any younger!). Also the appeal of not flushing hundreds of pounds of salt annually into our septic system, and eventually our aquifer, was undeniable.

Color me a sucker. Just hoping the company is reputable and we can get our money back, forget about the HUGE waste of our time and effort.


Disclaimer: I'm a decent gardener, a really good cook and an excellent artisan cheese maker but NOT a plumber, electrician, engineer or chemist OR affiliated with any water softening or conditioning company past or present (or future - God willing). Professional driver on closed test track. Your mileage may vary. OAC.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2012 at 2:29AM
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Can we all just stop feeding these trolls?

    Bookmark   August 25, 2012 at 7:33PM
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Update: We did eventually receive a full refund from Pelican for the purchase price so they were good to their word. We are now only out the cost of installation, removal and shipping the unit back to them. Could have been worse.

But what's a troll and who's feeding them? I don't get it.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 3:09PM
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I have spent the last couple of hours sifting through the science, the naysayers, the proponents and on and on of this and the original thread. I have to say that a lot of the contents of the posts read like a tit for tat between the sellers of the salt systems and the electric systems (maybe not). Personally, I am not a scientist nor claim to be able to say without a doubt which of the scientific explanations/positions for either system are 100% accurate. I am very much a data person and read many of the links the contributors have included in their posts and few of them are implicit with evidence supporting the claims made by the posters or the manufacturers in regards to ions, the effects on the environment or the scaling issue. So what I would like to add to this is my own personal experience with both. I don't know if any of it is noteworthy, but since I have not seen anyone post anything of this ilk, here are my two cents worth:

I have owned 2 salt systems ranging in price from $1200-3500 both with tank water heaters. One month ago I replaced my four year old tank heater with a Steibel Eltron on demand heater complemented with a Easy Water system and a 20" big blue solid carbon filter. When we drained the tank, there was approximately 3" of scale in a 5 gallon bucket. Also, there was scale in all of my bathroom and kitchen plumbing fixtures. Initially, I did not notice any changes in the characteristics of the water; but after 3 weeks of normal use, I noticed that the pre-existing scale had disappeared (voodoo? probably not). The water pressure gradually increased to what I consider better than adequate (especially in the shower). Lastly, the water heater is running more efficiently without any temperature adjustment at the unit. Let me quantify this by stating that I am experiencing my normal hot shower temperature with the temperature adjustment set at a lower than previously used level. My skin and hair look and feel healthier without the slimy feel that I experienced with the 2 salt systems. I cannot be happier with my water system.

One other real life experience to share: a few months ago, my mother experienced a leak in her second story shower drain (btw she has a 20+ year old home and has had a salt system for 18 of those). Since she is not very construction savvy, she asked me to be at her home when her plumber came to diagnose/fix the problem. Ultimately he had to replace the trap at the drain and about 1' of the pipe beyond that to take care of the leak. I examined the pipe out of curiosity and noted that it had lost approximately 1/3 of its internal diameter due to scale build up. Since I have had a positive experience with my Easy water unit, my mother is in the process of ordering and scheduling her plumber to install one as he stated that an Easy Water unit will definitely "improve, if not, remove all of the scale build up she currently has."

Let me wrap this up by saying that I have no horse in this race. I am merely an experienced consumer that is thoroughly satisfied with the results of the system I have in my home and as long as the results do not lessen, then I have no reason to question the how's, why's and what if's.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 1:16PM
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jtm - Hopefully you will stick around the forum for a while. Generally speaking, folks don't sign up to provide a glowing review unless they do have a horse in the race. Time will tell. If we keep seeing you around, I'll be the first in line to apologize for my cynical first assessment.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 1:37PM
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Just so you know, I am a sales rep for a bank and security company, so there is no crossover in what I sell and what I have posted. I have never been a blogger as I have not (until now) found anything but petty, immature and uninformative posts on any blogs I have ever read. Challenge accepted. By no stretch of the imagination do I have any intentions of spending time or money testing my water; but I will provide appropriate updates as to how things are going with my system in hopes that it will give you enough inspiration to consider a conditioner as a respectful and effective means to improve water quality in a residential setting.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 1:46PM
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Another anecdotal case with zero evidence anything changed.

Does it cure headaches also?

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 7:51PM
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Jeez you guys are never happy.

Half of you scream for scientific studies and proofs, say forget empirical reports as they're garbage, then when somebody posts about a study they're blown off as industry hacks.

The other half says they want to hear from actual users and not listen to a lot of boring facts and figures probably funded by companies with a vested interest in the outcome anyway. Then first-hand accounts are trashed as unscientific and (again) accused of probably being the posting of someone with "a horse in the race".

Having "been there and done that" with no horses in any races (and posted previously about my experiences) with salt systems, no-salt systems and no system at all I know what works for me. It was a real learning experience but not an overly costly one (the companies we worked with were true to their word on giving full refunds) so I say... have at it, give them all a try, see what works for you, good luck and and caveat emptor.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 8:51PM
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jtm366 or any one else who knows,
which Easy wtr system did you buy???? I have been rreading about this for years esp on this forum???

please explain about this "20" big blue solid carbon "filter" where did you install it? what brand is it? and approx cost of it....not including
installation? what exactly does the big blue filter????
we are diy selfers out of necessity.... and so far have not had good professional workers experiences...
I saw some a while back on line I believe...we are well water users (newbies). Presently use a countertop namebrand filters unit... with "city 'over chlorinted'" ( from another persons home). We use water poured into the reservoir of the ss unit.
Used to have an RO system for former house via uner old house kitchen sink.also had at former house a "water Boss.".. but it acted up after a while and used lots of salt. Plus dont want to lug salt and hurt the water supply in general.. in other word Earth friendly I try to be...
thanks yall

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 3:03AM
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For Jean. I got the 20" solid carbon block filter, housing, mounting bracket and housing wrench from Amazon for less than $90. I had a plumber install this just above where I coiled the leads for the Easy Water 2200 unit (definitely a DIY install) at the main feed into the house just beyond the meter. I watched him do the install and it was fairly straightforward in that he 90'd off the main, 90'd off the wall to the inlet of the carbon housing and 90'd back to the main and back into the main. Unless you have above DIY plumbing skills, I would leave this to the pros.

The reason I installed both units to the main as it comes out of the slab is that I wanted all kitchen and bath fixtures to get the conditioned water. I had hoped that my exterior bibs were on a separate feed that I could bypass and still have my conditioning units still accessible in the garage. Unfortunately, this was not the case (I would have had to install both in the attic and that would have been a headache, especially for maintenance of the carbon filter).

I hope this helps


    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 9:46AM
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Just a new update on something new that I have noticed and consider to be noteworthy of sharing with the group. Around the same time I installed the Easy Water and carbon filter units, I purchased a new coffee maker. One thing that I noticed at first was that I was getting a brownish build up in the glass pot (after every pot I made) that required extensive scrubbing to remove. I did this for the last time (I hope) the weekend before Thanksgiving and subsequently ran it through a cycle in the dishwasher. This week (4.5 weeks post Easy Water install) my girlfriend and I have surprisingly noticed that the coffee pot has been crystal clear requiring nothing more than a good rinse between use. I know that this does not represent any empirical data (alice, et al); but as the scientists and I have stated ad nauseum, there is none to be found. I made a commitment to the forum to update anything that I find interesting and pertinent and I feel that this is an observation that bears sharing. For all the skeptics that I anticipate will try to tear this apart, I have changed nothing in my routine. I usually make 1 or 2 pots of coffee a day, continue to use the same dishwasher detergent (recommended by the manufacturer) and all I do is simply rinse the pot prior to making a new one in the morning. The only thing that has changed in my home is the aforementioned additions to my water system and the brown coffee/scale has miraculously gone away.

Here's to a good cup of coffee to all!


    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 10:03AM
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I bought the ScaleWatcher 3 in early spring and have been very happy with it. It was simple to install so I didn't need to hire anyone to do it.

Within days we started noticing a difference. The water "felt" softer even though my understanding is that this gadget doesn't actually soften the water. The taps and the counters around them were a lot easier to clean. I no longer need to scrub to make them shiny.

Skin feels better, hair is shinier, soap rinses better.

We do however have a problem that I could use some help with. I am not sure if it is related to the ScaleWatcher or just our well (it had not been used in many, many years. We discovered it during a renovation project).

In the last couple of months we have noticed large crystals that are clogging everything. I have to remove the little filter on the kitchen sink every couple of days, the shower head has to be taken apart and rinsed on a regular basis. Our tankless hot water heater filter has to be rinsed out.

It is better than the hard water deposits because it just rinses in seconds but it is getting very frustrating to take everything apart so often to keep the water pressure up.

I am thinking that we need some kind of a filter to trap these crystals that won't have to be cleaned every couple of days.

I am going to call the company that I purchased the ScaleWatcher from just in case it is a problem with the device but I could use some suggestions with the type of filter I would need to get.

We do not currently have a UV filter on our water system so we do not drink the water from the well even though it is borderline. If there is a filter that would make the water safe to drink as well as to resolve this issue that would be great.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2013 at 4:33PM
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I am considering purchasing a magnetic water descaler so I am doing my homework. There have been complaints here that no research has been done on magnetic water descalers. That is false. I've linked for you a research paper presented at the Fifteenth International Water Technology Conference in Egypt in 2011. Google Scholar is a nice portal to these academic papers.

The following quote from the paper is notable. 'It was found that the magnetic treatment does affect the TDS and pH of different solutions according to the magnetizer used. The effect of the magnetizer was to decrease the TDS [Total Dissolved Solids] and increase the pH of water. The effect depends on the time of exposure to the magnetic field.'


    Bookmark   March 31, 2014 at 4:41PM
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Unless you intend to install a constant circulation system in your home, and do not intend to apply any heat to your water, the study you linked has little relevance for residential applications. The conditions in your home plumbing system will be completely different. Additionally, although pH and TDS are informational, they do not measure the components of scale directly. Nor did the study make an attempt to explain the pH/TDS shift. All we know is something happens after about 20 minutes.

BTW - The complaint is not that NO research has been done, but that insufficient and inadequate testing has been done to explain what these devices do, how they do it and how to apply them in such a way as to achieve measurable results.

This post was edited by aliceinwonderland_id on Mon, Mar 31, 14 at 18:01

    Bookmark   March 31, 2014 at 5:50PM
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Lawrence James

I'd love to believe that these no-salt water softeners work as it is a chore to lug salt to the water softener but none of them have an understandable scientific basis with solid controlled experimental evidence to support it. While conventional water softeners work on a clearly understood and easily confirmed chemical process.

When we move to our present home, it was clear our water had unacceptable levels of calcium in it. We're on a neighborhood well and well water in many regions has this problem.

We have both a front loading washer as well as a continuous melting ice maker. Both had problems with our water immediately. Continuous melt ice makers don't tolerate scale at all. The deposits on the freezing plate interfere with the sheets sliding off and cause the unit to jam up. I was having to clean the freezing plate on ours monthly. Front load washers also have all sorts of problems with hard water. The soap forms scum deposits which quickly become smelly. I was running two packs of washing machine cleaner through ours every month to try to combat this. Plus I had the usual scale on the dishes and bath fixtures, plus the soap scum buildup in the showers.

I installed a basic Whirlpool water softener from Lowes and this immediately solved all our problems. I clean the ice maker about once a year which was the same frequency I had done it in our previous house on city water. And occasionally I run a washer cycle with washing machine cleaner but no longer does our washer continuously get smelly.

This is also a good place to point out that the science behind calcium removal using resins with salt or potassium salt is the same across all brands. I won't argue that $3,000 water softeners have a lot of extra features that you will not find in a $400 Whirlpool one. BUT the way the remove calcium is exactly the same.

They ALL use an ion exchange resin that substitutes sodium for the calcium. Periodically the resin is flushed with super saturated salt water to unbind the calcium, dispose of it, and replace it with more sodium for a new cycle. Note, it is a myth that water softeners add salt to your water, they add sodium, not salt. For those that are concerned with sodium intake, for a little more money, potassium chloride can be used instead of regular salt in just about any resin based water softener. As a plus with potassium, those with gray water systems can have a water softener and still use the waste water on plants and the lawn.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2015 at 9:37AM
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At least for small scale, a reverse osmosis would work ...although in that case you are removing everything. Obviously your not (?) going to use it for showering. Might get away rinsing dishes....even washing your face...?

I don't have a water softener...a few years of hard water takes a toll on fixtures, sinks, pots, pans, washing machine...we are on a well.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2015 at 4:10PM
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