If you have a 36" Apron sink in a 36" cabinet . . .

quiltgirlMarch 22, 2013

I received the 36" Rohl Apron Sink and just realized that the cabinet for it cannot be made any wider without throwing off adjacent cabinets. If you have an apron 36" sink in a 36" cabinet, how does it look? Is is scribed or sitting on a "drip board"? On one side of the sink is the dishwasher and am wondering if this will be fine with the sink side resting against the side of the dishwasher. I am hoping I can get this to work without changing the size of the cabinet. What do you think? (Pictures if you have them, please.)

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need a minimum 3/4" panel on the DW side

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 9:59AM
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Mine is exactly what you describe. When the home was newly built I had a Miele dw. When I opened the dw door I could see the side of sink and it really bugged me. I have often wondered if this could have been avoided with a spacer on each side of the sink between the sink base and the dw.

Fast forward several years. I have since replaced my dishwasher with F/P dish drawers and for whatever reason when the drawers are out you cannot see the side of the sink. The chassis must be deeper...if that makes sense.

Let me know if you want more pics. There is a pic posted in the old thread.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 5:39PM
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Red lover yes I would like to see pictures. What is the title of the old thread? The sink I have is finished on all four sides (The Rohl farmhouse sink) so I don't know if that would be different than what you had. I was wondering if there were any problems with maybe the dishwasher vibrating against the sink that might cause issues?

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 5:55PM
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Oh Red Lover I did see your shaw sink on the other post! But you have your sink scribed in and there is wood on each side of it. I do not have any wood between the sink and the next cabinet which is not a problem on one side since that cabinet is wood. But on the dishwasher side it is the dishwasher which is not in a cabinet. Does that make sense?

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 6:03PM
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No, mine is a 36" sink base with a Rohl 36" farmhouse sink. So there is no wood between the sink and the dishwasher.

Lets put it this way to make it more clear. When the dishwasher space is empty (no dishwasher installed), and you are looking into the space you can see the entire top of the sink sitting on the sink base. Naturally, once the dw is installed the sink will sit against the side of the dishwasher. My house is 8 yrs old and it has never created a problem.

There is no reason why this can't work and it looks fine.

But, it could have been done better ideally. Have you already ordered your cabinets?

A wider sink base or spacers on each side of the sink base. Not sure what is the better solution. Hopefully, one of the KDs will weigh in.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 6:48PM
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A countertop cannot sit on top of a DW. You have to have something to support it. Thus the need for at least a 3/4" panel between the two. I personally prefer a smaller farm sink with a smaller base and then use decorative posts (with fillers and "return" panels behind the posts to provide support) to either side. Farm sinks take up more visual space than do your standard undermounted sink, and a 36" farm sink is HUGE visually and functionally. You can fit two year old twins in it with room left over.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 7:26PM
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You are right GreenDesigns, this sink is huge! The cabinet maker says I could soak a pig in it! If I ever do a pig roast, I am all set.

In hindsight I wish I would have gotten the smaller sink, but I was afraid the inside dimensions would be skimpy. I guess he is going to make the base 38". I would have preferred to not go any bigger than the 36" since it changes the size of my cabinet to the right of the dishwasher. Now my upper cabinet there will be 4" from the window trim instead of 3". I just hate to give up even an inch of cabinet space.

Thanks to all for the input. I appreciate it!

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 8:42PM
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There is no need to change the upper cabinet. They not need to, nor should they line up with the base cabinets.

The distance of each wall cabinet from the window molding needs to be equal, nothing more.

    Bookmark   March 22, 2013 at 9:20PM
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But Jakuvall, don't you think the lower being 34.5" and the top being 35.5 or 36" would be not pleasing to the eye?

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 1:38PM
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Can't see your picture but really don't have to.
The short answer is No I do not.

There is a dishwasher on the bottom, did you align a top cabinet to that? (Please say no)

The long answer which is not meant to be as harsh as it sounds but ...
To be blunt- lining up base cabinets and lower cabinets at all costs is considered an amateur mistake, done by contractors or newbie designers (like align the cabinet to the dishwasher). It is a lazy approach to design used to avoid having to deal with proportions.

It is not defacto more pleasing to the eye. The possible exception is when designing furniture pieces like hutches, but even then it is not essential. Rhythm, proportion are more important, just harder to do.
Very often variations add interest.

The elevation views you look at are not how you see your kitchen IRL. (is there an island?) They are good reference and important but this is not a building façade where elevation is critical. Even then...

Do you have any perspectives of the kitchen? You'll get a much better sense of what you really see (until the designer messes with them to let you see the entire kitchen.)
When I work I constantly go between plan, elevation and several perspectives as I make decisions.
Walk into your kitchen (or any other room) now, what do you see? how much of it? what relationships do you see?

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 2:29PM
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What Jakuval said!

I have stopped responding to threads which are mindlessly obssessive about perfect cabinet symmetry at the expense of proportion, overall scale and, most importantly, kitchen function.

I don't mean to be rude, but letting symmetry drive your cabinet size decisions, above all other considerations, creates kitchens with the same sterile feel as a living room furnished with a "matchy-matchy" suite of chairs and sofa.

No, having the upper and lower cabs of slightly different overall dimension won't be displeasing to the eye. It's likely that if the left and right upper units are balanced between each other, that no one will ever notice that the upper sections don't match the lower sections. And even if the upper can't be perfectly balanced, then judicious use of scibed fillers at the edges would successfully fudge any slight discrepancy. Just make sure the overall proportions are similar enough to make a harmonious visual "chord".

I often see people here dividing their cabs into less than optimally dimensioned units merely to try to achieve the goal of design coherence via strict symmetry.

Let the main points of functional necessity drive the overall layout, then fit in the subsidiary units in ways that strengthen the plan, not weaken it. At the point where (for instance) you start to consider letting the width of the spice pullout conrol the size of the pot drawer just to make the uppers line up perfectly with the lowers, STOP!

Try to get some regularly repeated proportion going on with the strongest elements; repeated as harmonious fractions for smaller units, and largely ignored for the smallest, most trival elements. if your design is good, the boldest elements along with their correctly-scaled (not necessarily dimensionally identical) secondary elements will have enough strength to carry the weight. This make the remaining deviations either "invisible" or just little grace notes to the whole plan.


    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 4:26PM
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didn't touch symmetry but
the word means "balanced" it does NOT mean equilateral
while that is one way to achieve balance it is far from the only one as liriodendron points out ...
and I'm as Palladian as anyone...

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 5:56PM
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Jakuval, here is a picture of the sink wall. I only have three upper cabinets in the kitchen, one on either side of the stove and this one over a bank of drawers. There will be an island with a prep sink also. So I guess I could have the open shelves on the left and the glass cabinet on the right an inch or so wider. Right now with the glass cabinet even with the bank of drawers below, I will have 3 3/4" between the window trim and the side of both cabinets. I could make it 2" to 2 3/4", but thought that was a little tight. What do you think? Oh! and thanks for your input!

liriodendron, all my base cabinets are drawers and I did go thru and measure my stuff and decide where I wanted it in the kitchen. Function was my main concern. Both you and Jakuval are so informative and helpful! I do not have any perspectives on this layout. I did not have a designer to help me, just all the helpful folks here on GW.

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 6:37PM
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just saw the part about the island-
my gut say use a 30" sink - better proportion solves your other concerns.
It does look like those two cabinets ought to line up since you have corbels on the top one and are treating them as furniture-
The part that matters with the window is molding details/size and backsplash. I don't want to redo whatever you've done with the crew.
Molding looks a bit crowded for that amount of detail-
err on the side of more room OR make the top of window molding die into the cabinet widening the vertical window casings/pilaster.
check the heights
only way to decide is to accurately draw moldings to size with any important detail lines included.

I just realized that you have the cathedral ceiling with the molding set too high on the sides. I posted to that earlier.

This post was edited by jakuvall on Sat, Mar 23, 13 at 19:10

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 6:47PM
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Thanks Jakuval. Unfortunately the 36" Shaw Apron sink is already here so that 36" sink cabinet is now 38". Windows are already trimmed out with bullnose, riser and small crown on top. I will have 3 3/4" space between trim and cabinet with the 38" sink base pushing the dishwasher and base cabinet over that extra inch. The small crown over the window does have space between it and the cabinets, but that does not show up in my drawing like it should.

Will just be glass cabinet above drawer base without any corbels. A double light switch is in the way of putting any brackets, shelf or corbels underneath it.

If I could do anything different, I would have put in windows that were slightly smaller. I love all the natural light though and my beautiful views!

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 7:42PM
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