jonerebJuly 3, 2012

I haven't posted in a while. Still need advice on my male Siamese's loose stool and gas. Sebastian has seen a Vet specialist and been treated for giardia and other parasites. I'm fairly confident that he is now parasite free. His prescription diet is Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Rabbit and Potato. Still, he has loose stool. He seems to go thru stages of constipation, loose stool and diarrhea, but mostly loose stool and gas. The Vet wants to do a ultrasound. I can't continue dropping $300 to $500 on a shelter kitty. I'm assuming Sebastian has IBD. The vet suspects a lower GI issue. Sebastian fasted for 24 hours. I then gave him pumpkin with Duck & Green Pea (grain free) diet. BTW, I switched him to Duck & Pea last week over a 3 days. Too early to know if this will help. Any other advice or ideas? I'm thinking maybe a Probiotic next if this doesn't work.

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Has your vet treated for IBD to see how your cat responds? Also, is he eating dry or wet food?

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 1:10PM
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Sebastian has been tested for various parasites, lukemia, FIV, blood count, Fecal cytology. All were negative except giardia. After a round a antibiotics, he was clear of giardia. I don't know for sure if IBD or IBS was specifically tested. The Vet wants to do a ultrasound to look for a mass or other problem. If that proves negative she wants to do a scope. I can't afford to continue the fishing expedition. I'm assuming IBD which may be incorrect, but two vets have now suggested it's possible.

I specifically asked the specialist (grad of CO State and Cornell) if wet or dry mattered. She said it did not. I asked if I could feed both. She said wet and dry would be fine. I fed wet and dry Rabbit/Potato for 6 weeks. Little to no improvement. Now I'm feeding grainless dry Duck/Green Pea. I'm not feeding wet Duck/Green Pea because it contains carrageenan and guar gum. One website I visited said to avoid these two ingredients if your cat is experiencing chronic diarrhea issues. I've been fighting this since last July. BTW, wet Rabbit contains carrageenan.

Sebastian is now 1.5 years old.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 1:34PM
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I'm surprised that over a year's time the vets haven't at least treated for IBD to see if there's an improvement.
Whether to get the ultrasound first is a tough call. My approach, in order to save some $$, would be to first treat him for IBD, then go from there. I would definitely avoid any grains/gluten and I would feed only canned.

I assume you've read on the web which tests are performed in order to diagnose IBD. From what you've listed your vet has not run these tests.
Have they ever treated your cat with Carafate or any Corticosteroids?

Also, have you visited or They've discussed these issues.

Here is a link that might be useful: cat forum

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 4:07PM
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I have had several discussions with our Vet about the foods we feed our animals and while the no grain foods are great for allergies, my vet swears that some of the recipes are too rich for the animals and the fillers found in the less expensive foods help to keep the bowel movements at a consistency they need to be in. I would suggest that maybe you introduce a fiber product that you can mix into the food. Our puppy is on Fromm's, a no grain high quality food but when she eats it plain, her stools can be soft. To help with that, I mix 100% pumpkin puree and/or rice in with it. I know a cat's pallet is different from a dogs, but there has to be something it would like that you could do the same with. Also it could be that the food itself is not agreeing with its tummy. I'm not sure where Royal Canine is made but even if it's American produced you need to ensure that the contents of it are American sourced as well. I know I keep mentioning them in posts but Fromm's is a family owned business. The food and its ingredients are made in the states. They have also never experienced a recall. If changing the food to something less irritating for its stomach is something you want to consider trying, Fromm's would be a good alternative to try.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 6:25PM
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Thx, y'all. I doubt Sebastian has been checked for Carafate or Corticosteroids. I'll have to look those up. And I haven't been to or, but I will. After a 24 hour fast, I started mixing dry Duck & Green Pea with 100% pumpkin Monday of this week (7/2/12). He get this diet twice a day in the early morning and again at night. In between, he gets small servings of dry food. I have not witnessed a bowel movement yet. But he goes outside overnight and for a while in the morning after his morning pumpkin/duck/green pea. In another day or two, I'll keep him inside so I can observe the progress. This morning after his feeding, he was very playful, so he doesn't feel bad in spite of his issues.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 9:15PM
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Correction: Sebastian has been treated with Predilisone last fall and around the first of the year.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2012 at 9:35PM
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UPDATE: Sometime Tuesday afternoon or early evening, Sebastian used the litter box. His stool was fairly solid, enough to have form. Usually, it's very runny. This is the first time he has ever had solid stool without being on antibiotics. The pumpkin with Duck & Green Peas is helping. Then at 9:30 this morning, he went back to the litter box and squatted, then got out and squatted on the floor. Again, his stool had form though slightly wetter than what I would consider normal. I don't know why he is inconsistent with his litter box usage, but he has ALWAYS done this. He is definitely better about it when his stool is not runny. Most of the time when he is having diarrhea he makes no effort to use the litter box.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2012 at 11:52AM
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Ok, that's great but since it isn't doing the trick 100%, I would add a little rice to that mix which will also help firm up the stool a little more.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2012 at 6:34PM
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Does it matter what kind of rice? White, brown, long grain? Any special preparation? Since I'm trying to avoid grain, does this defeat my purpose?

    Bookmark   July 4, 2012 at 9:42PM
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rice is not a bad grain. The most problematic grains and fillers are corn and wheat. I would give it brown or white and only until the problem starts to subside.

If it were me, I'd also make a food change. With our puppy I had to try several before finding one that was compatible with her system.

    Bookmark   July 5, 2012 at 6:13PM
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For what it's worth I had a cat several years ago (RIP... now) who would throw up like clockwork every night at 3:00. Sometimes with blood in it. Her food was all high quality from vets. If I tried switching brands she was maybe good for a couple of weeks and then it would start all over again. She had some diagnostic tests done with nothing definitive coming up. The vet suggested doing an ultrasound that would maybe show something, and maybe not. I was convinced she had IBD, too. Long and short of it after doing a lot of reading on the Internet I switched her to a raw diet. Overnight she was better. She stopped throwing up. She slimmed down (I thought she was slightly overweight - but I think she was actually just bloated). Her coat took on an amazing shine. It was a bit of a nuisance to have to make her food up for her once every 10 days or so but so worth it. Just something to think about...

    Bookmark   July 5, 2012 at 8:01PM
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I think one of the issues here is that Sebastian is an indoor/outdoor cat. If he's leaving the yard there is no way to control what he's eating. He may be eating something that is irritating his bowels, or a neighbor may be feeding him something he shouldn't have.
It's going to be difficult to control his stomach problem as long as he's going outdoors, but it sounds as though you're seeing some improvement.

I'm still surprised the vet hasn't given him anything to help settle/coat his stomach during this whole process.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2012 at 12:42PM
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UPDATE: Saturday night, Sebastian used the litter box several times. His stool is now very soft again. I've been adding pumpkin to his diet twice a day for 6 days. How long should I do this, or have I gone too long already? I must also say, that I expected his loose stool to return at some point. Sebastian has always had cycles -- good days followed by bad days. Since I've had him (a year) it's been mostly bad days. The past 5 or 6 days of good bowel movements was the best week of his life. What should I do now? Continue adding pumpkin to his diet? Try another 24 hour fast? Add rice? Add probiotics? Or maybe keep doing what I'm doing and wait for the cycle to pass?

    Bookmark   July 8, 2012 at 3:40PM
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Ive said it before, I'll say it again: probiotics

You can't just wipe out ALL your intestinal bacteria, good and bad, and expect that magically only the "good" bacteria will come back when you're off the antibiotic. Sometimes it turns out that way, but often times not. You have repeatedly given him antibiotics - this works by killing off the bad bacteria. Symptoms go away when he's on the antibiotic because the bad bacteria causing it is gone. Problem is - it also kills off the good stuff too, and that's why you need to restore the good stuff when you're done with the antibiotic!

The fact that he's repeatedly recovered during a course of antibiotics, but then the intestinal distress comes back after he's off the antibiotic - is PROOF POSITIVE that this problem is bacterial in nature. Food allergy may or may not be a part of it, a secondary factor perhaps but you cant deny that there's something bacterial going on here.

I am not sure what you're waiting for? Its something that can be done concurrently with diet changes ( a good healthy minimal grain diet is going to improve his health and coat in many other ways, so its definitely worth doing regardless.)

My Orange came from the shelter with a bad case of ... something. Poor guy was terribly embarassed by the stinky mess he always left in the box - cleared right up after a few days of a dietary supplement I sprinkled on his food (I'll look it up, forget the name). Every now and then he gets another dose.

Also... this approach really helped ME. After a bunch of years on and off antibiotics, I was diagnosed with IBD - cleared right up after a few weeks on flora-jen. Yogurt works too.

Anyway - good luck, I appreciate that you are hanging in there with him and trying out these things.

PS - question for those who might know - are the bacteria beneficial for humans also good for cats, and vice versa? I've been using cat products specifically for Orange but I wonder if it matters. THANKS

    Bookmark   July 10, 2012 at 6:48PM
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Thx, kashka. I'd really like to know the name of the probiotics you used with Orange and how often you administered it. I'm considering starting Sebastian with plain yogurt, but will consider going straight for probiotics. I also started giving him a little fish oil. He hasn't had pumpkin for 4 days now. His bowel is definitely better, but still not normal. I think I over did pumpkin.

    Bookmark   July 11, 2012 at 6:49AM
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This is just getting to be nonsense. Have you tried an IBD diet yet without the testing? Doesn't it all come down to figuring out what he can eat anyway?

Buy him a rabbit (or lamb or chicken if you can't find rabbit). Cook it up and just feed him that and only that for a day (or two if necessary) . I'm sure by now you have supplements on hand which you can mix in for the nutrients... That's how I determined my cat had a food issue and we just worked from there. I didn't even add supplements I was so frustrated so kept the ingredients down to one and only one.

ps my cat seemed to get better with each new antibiotics and then the problem would return when she went off of them.

    Bookmark   July 15, 2012 at 2:38PM
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