What can I expect to pay ---

carmen_grower_2007February 24, 2010

For hip and eye certification for my 2 year old lab? What have you all paid? I want to have her bred and know that this is a necessary cost. (Her parents were both certified, BTW.)

Yes, we are going to let her have a litter of puppies before having her spayed so you don't need to criticize.

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I don't think you can post a message on any forum, especially this one, & tell people what responses they can or cannot make.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2010 at 4:32PM
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I suspect that Carmen's wording was what it was because of the response in another thread when she talked about not wanting to spay her female. Maybe a little gun-shy.

First off, if she is wanting to have it tested and her dog was the offspring off a tested dam and sire, then it sounds like she is trying to do it responsibly. Myself, I have all my animals neutered, but even I was cringing with how Carmen got dissed for considering bringing more animals into the world. I'd hate to think that allowing an animal to breed at home, ever, would be one more thing somebody cannot do because of other people's idea of what is PC.

Myself, I'm glad to hear she is now considering spaying her dog, but it's not my call to make. It's Carmen's. Call your Vet and ask. It's that simple.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2010 at 5:05PM
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heavy sigh....you may want to ask some breeders in your area. I agree this forum is not the best place for that question - you may want to e mail meghane if she has an e mail link available...

    Bookmark   February 25, 2010 at 1:54AM
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OFA rads have to be done under general anesthesia. Prices for rads vary *greatly*- I've seen anywhere from the $85 I charge to $250. Anesthesia is the same way. The only fixed cost is the OFA fee which I can look up, but I believe it is just under $100. While she is under, you'll also want to get her elbows OFA certified. That way you'll save an additional anesthesia event. To get hips and elbows done, expect about $300-500.

The eye certification has to be done by a boarded ophthalmologist, so expect to pay about $150-250 for the exam (it's just an exam).

Again prices vary greatly by region and city.

Glad you are doing this the responsible way. Make sure the sire has all his certs too.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2010 at 7:01AM
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X-rays have to be done after the female is 2 yrs old for OFA certification.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2010 at 11:35AM
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The breeder you got the pup from should be able to tell you what it costs. Also there may be other tests specific for your breed. I say this as the breed I have, her parents are also checked for a couple other things that are specific for the breed. Also, since this is a lab I assume there is no genetic problems associated with coat colors that you have to be aware of. I.E. Such as merle to merle crossing.

I would suggest finding some books about labs, specifically where it talks about the top lines and breeding. That way you can see what characteristics are basically coming from a certain (kennel) line. I assume that Labs have a web site where you can go look at the lineage of a certain dog. That way you can check out what you (hopefully) want to breed into your future puppies.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2010 at 4:05PM
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A reputable breeder will not allow their purchased pups bred. You have to sign a contract. A reputable breeder would not want you breeding his/her dog since backyard breeders tend not to follow through on the things mentioned above.

Most of all, since you are looking here, on a forum, for advice, you clearly are not doing what you are supposed to do to inform yourself on being a reputable, safe breeder.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2010 at 5:31PM
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She may be interested in producing family pets, instead of breeding stock. It may be that she is more interested in assuring the buyers could feel confident that their puppies aren't an accident waiting to happen. I don't see her becoming a 'breeder' if she is going to spay this animal after it whelps.

You also don't know if she'll insist on a spay/neuter contract upon sale. Again, this implies that nobody should ever breed a dog unless they intend to devote their life to being a show-quality breeder.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a lot more responsibililty given to making a decision to breed an animal. But first I'd like to see the puppy mills disappear, and next I'd like to see anyone who doesn't intend on breeding an animal to get them sterilised. If we could just get all that done, maybe a person who has a pet and would like to breed it won't feel as if they're committing a crime.

I also don't like to assume anyone is the sterotypical anything, including back yard breeder. An internet forum is an information gathering place. You gotta start gathering information somewhere if you've never done something before....and coming to a forum is often the first place people go to before they get on the horn or write letters to confirm the advice.

I understand the passion involved. I really do. I don't understand the unkindness.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2010 at 6:58PM
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Personally I have no problem if the OP wants to breed her dog. She stated that she was prepared to keep any pups that couldn't be placed. I am sure she is capable of doing the math and figuring out the costs involved if she ends up with a dozen more dogs. (just kidding, but it is possible) Also no one knows if her lab is a great hunter. Maybe other people have commented that they would love to have one of her pups.

But with the tight economy even the breeders have seemed to back off from producing litters.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2010 at 8:06PM
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Thanks for the interest and information. I don't care at all about 'show quality' which in my opinion is superficial. Our dog is a great all-around family pet without an aggressive bone in her body. We have family members who would love one of her pups.

Right now, we are even considering a mixed-breed daddy with a similar personality. (The only physical characteristics I care about are short hair, size and strength.)

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 9:23AM
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Have you checked your purchase contract to see if you agreed to have her spayed and not breed her? Usually breeders who pet out dogs don't permit breeding by the buyer. Are you considering a mixed breed sire now because the original potential purebred sire required the testing?

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 11:12AM
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Just so you know, the tests don't guarantee anything.
I know someone who bred their top of the line show female to top of the line "best of show" semen, all tested. They got multiple pups back with hip problems. Some of them were very bad and had to be put down.
In addition to keeping any that can't be placed be prepared to get some back and have a lot of medical bills and/or have to make the worst decision.

Personally I think "family pet" purebred quality dogs is what is needed. There are show breeders passing off their failures as "family pet" and field breeders passing their failures off as "family pet" or "hunting". They're not either "family pet" or "hunting" and all the propaganda about backyard breeders and having to pay top dollar is about saving their wallets not the breeds. If they were about saving the breeds their games would reflect family pet needs and actual hunting needs, not games.

You lose me on the mutt thing though. You shouldn't breed if it's not pure. There are enough mutts being produced accidentally (especially lab mutts, go to any shelter and take your pick of lab mutts with great personalities if that's what you want), there isn't a need for more.
Mutt medical problems are unpredictable, you never know what lurks back there in the recessive genes of a mutt.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 4:17AM
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We had a lab and decided to breed her before we had her spayed. We had all of the tests done and the results were good. The sire we chose was breeding stock. So far so good. The pups were born - 11 of them. Mom had a retained placenta and was very sick for a while. We ended up tube feeding the pups every two hours for a week or so, and then every four hours. It was a nightmare. 5 of the pups survived. We heard later that four of them had hip or heart problems. The one we kept had to be euthanized at six months because of heart problems. The fifth dog is an absolutely beautiful dog. No health problems, 85lbs of pure muscle, wonderful temperament etc. Would I do it again? Never. Our dog was the sweetest, most faithful dog you could ever wish for and the reason we bred her was that friends said if she ever had puppies they would like one. Think carefully, sometimes the pregnancy does not go as planned and can be heartbreaking for the owners.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 8:18AM
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I don't understand why you'd go through all the trouble of getting your dog OFA certified if you're just going to breed her with a mutt. I can get a perfectly good mutt that would have been otherwise killed at a shelter. Obviously the mutt wouldn't have 3 generations of OFA excellent hips, elbows, and eyes so why bother making sure the dam is also certified? It doesn't make any sense to breed a great dog to a mediocre one. Not that mutts are bad dogs, but if *I* was going to pay for a dog, it would NOT be a mutt. Not that I have paid for any of my dogs anyway, all purebred...

I'm sure you can find a wonderful male Lab with excellent health and temperment. I know you're not breeding for the money, but you'll probably have a hard time giving away mutts, even with the dam having all her certs.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 3:33PM
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Well, I certainly wouldn't have my dog certified if I was to find a suitable mixed breed for her mate. The certification is way too expensive for us and especially if it doesn't guarantee anything anyway --- that knowledge solved the dilemma for me! BTW, I have had mixed breeds all my life and never had one with medical problems. Even had a vet for many years that always suggested a mixed breed over a pure-bred because of so many problems he saw in his practice.

That said, since ours is a registered lab, I know it will be easier to find homes for the pups if we find a suitable mate that is a lab also. Well, we did and I am thrilled -- he is a mild-tempered sweet guy (5 years old - no medical problems) so, we are no longer looking. Like I said before, I don't see problems in finding homes for the pups and the ones I don't give to relatives, will be sold at a affordable price to people who want a great family pet.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2010 at 9:27AM
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It may not guarantee that the pups will be born without problems but if the adults test positive for a problem that would guarantee the pups would at least be carriers.

No it will not necessarily be easy to find homes for your lab mutts just because one is registered. Go to any shelter in the US and you will see they are the highest number of mutts that get dumped and killed.
It wouldn't even be easy if you were breeding pure labs because there are so many of them.

I've never been one to get down on people breeding dogs but I'd say of all the people I've seen jumped on over the issue (including myself) you deserve it the most. You need a wake up call.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2010 at 8:45PM
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Wow, a back yard breeder is born...

I could go to my local animal shelter and find five or six pure bred Labs. There is nothing special about a pet quality Lab that would make yours more likely to find permanent homes than any one of the ones who will be euthanized this week in any local shelter.

I'd also like to say that if your dog was of breeding quality you wouldn't have been given the oportunity to own her. If you didn't sign a spay contract then you probably bought her from a backyard breeder.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2010 at 9:44PM
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What are you going to do with all those Lab mixes?

What do you think will happen to them?

Look on any craigslist & put "lab" in the search box to see how many there are out there looking for homes, & most of them won't be alive this time next year.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 1:01PM
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Carmen, this article from Woodhaven labs has a lot of good info for first time breeders. I'm not affiliated with them but I've seen the link on a Labrador board that I frequent.

Here is a link that might be useful: Want to be a Breeder?

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 2:51PM
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There is nothing special about a pet quality Lab that would make yours more likely to find permanent homes than any one of the ones who will be euthanized this week in any local shelter.

The OP does not care. As long as *their* pups get homes, who cares about the rest...

There is a finite amount of households out there. What that means, if 5 pups found a home today, 5 could not, because there were a finite (and limited) number of people looking for a pup.
So, if OP is responsible for bringing 10-11 pups into this world, given the overcrowding of shelters and overabundance of lab mixes AND labs, the OP is responsible for 10-11 other pups killed because they could not find a home.

Every time an animal finds a home, that home is taken from another animal waiting, and the animals is killed as that spot is no longer available to it. Plain and simple.

To make it even simpler, without the theoretical description. Given a town A has 1,000 citizens and 50 of them are looking for a new lab puppy. If 10 of them adopt (more likely, buy) a puppy from OP, the 10 puppies currently at a shelter in town A never got a chance to get adopted and are, therefore, euthanized.

But the OP does not care.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 2:51PM
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In addition to what Olya wrote: if the recipients of her dog's puppies also want to breed them, you have 5X the puppies. Which is the major reason why shelters are euthanizing healthy dogs: too many dogs bred by too many irresponsible owners, and not enough people to home them.

Mind boggling how people who profess to love animals are actually responsible for their euthanasia.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 6:27PM
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olyagrove, you posted exactly what I've been thinking, especially your statement that the OP doesn't care. She wants puppies and that desire overrides all the logic in your post and those of others.

I bet if you added up all the unwanted dogs bred by backyard breeders they would far exceed the numbers bred by the much demonized puppy mills. The only difference is that the backyarders always profess to love their dogs and have a million justifications why it's ok for them to breed their's. Talking them out of it is like talking to a wall, yet until they stop all the puppy mill laws in the world will barely make a dent in the euthanasia rates.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 6:50PM
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murraysmom Zone 6 OH

idrive65, thank you for a very insightful and thought provoking article on the possible outcomes of breeding any dog. I had no idea so many things could and do go wrong. And the thought that if there are 5 puppies that do find homes, five in the shelter will not. It might be different if the dog was already pregnant. But to deliberately breed a dog unnecessarily seems unbelievably selfish. Why not gather your family and friends that want a puppy and go to the shelter and save a bunch of lives - maybe including your own female?!!!!!

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 7:05PM
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There's so much good advice here, but sadly none will be taken. Go back to the original post, read the follow ups and you'll see it's all about money, not about the dogs.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 7:20PM
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Sadly Cynthia I think you are correct. I would suspect something on the line of labradoodles. The OP has probably seen the outrageous amounts that breeders are wanting for these dogs. As with anything, the breeders who are producing these pups are not first generation dogs. Again they are being bred within their lines to get the look and the hair quality that is being sought by people who are looking for a so called hypoallergenic dog. These particular breeders are trying to get their dogs purebred status. If this is the case, the OP should get an interesting lesson in genetics.

I disagree with the OP about her opinion of purebred dogs. Purebred dogs should be bred for "show quality". That term applies to structure and temperament. That is why a well bred dog is so "pretty." They have the correct bone structure underneath the fur that allows them to move either in the ring or on the field. They should also have the correct temperament that applies to the breed. Otherwise, as you continue down the chain breeding bad example to bad example you eventually end up with just another mutt. The recessive traits can become dominant when no one is checking the lineage. You end up with a dog in the pound who is either too shy or aggressive with major health problems.

As I stated, I have no problem with someone breeding their dog. BUT, they need to be good stewards and breed with a goal in mind. With anything you breed whether it's chickens, horses, etc. you should be breeding to improve your future animals.

As stated, the OP will do whatever.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 9:02PM
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I gave the poster the benefit of the doubt, but each time she posts, the plans are more bizarre, and I'm even wondering if there isn't a little trolling going on. I would never purposely breed a mutt, either.

And, there is a difference between having good homes for a dog before you breed them, and finding somebody who will take a puppy off your hands. A lot of difference.

I am one of those people who goes to the shelter when I am looking for an animal to share my home. When I was visiting them frequently before finding the dog I eventually got, I think half of their canine population were lab mixes. It broke my heart.

I don't think that backyard breeders are responsible for the bulk of the pups in shelters. I don't think most of the owners of those dogs intended to breed any of them. They just didn't want to invest the time or money to prevent pregnancies. IOW the breeding wasn't intentional.

You'd be surprised at the number of people who feel guilty about 'depriving' their pets the chance to carry on their line. Seriously. The animals however live much happier lives if they don't have that incessant drive to mate at all costs, and early spaying and neutering can prevent a lot of needless health issues later in an animal's life.

My daughter just took in a pregnant beagle whose owner wasn't particularly looking to find it. That dog was lucky and most aren't so lucky to have someone rescue them in that situation. She'll be faced with the vet and puppy care bills somebody else was responsible for incurring, and she'll also have to find homes for the pups. If they were registered beagles, that wouldn't be hard in our rural area........but chances are they will be a motley assortment of furballs and it will be difficult to place them.

I'm getting strange vibes, too.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 10:43PM
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Bumblebeez SC Zone 7

This whole thread is so sad and I am completely perplexed why the op keeps coming back here when her mind is made up and she surely knows what everyone thinks about her decisions.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 10:50PM
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That's a good link. I started thinking along those lines after I posted.

If the tests are too expensive what happens about any complications during pregnancy or with the pups? That could easily jump up higher than the tests.
What happens when she has 6 full grown Labs eating like horses and needing shots?
What if half the litter has hip problems?

"I disagree with the OP about her opinion of purebred dogs. Purebred dogs should be bred for "show quality"."
So no working dogs? Only hyperactive, overbred dogs with genetic problems that price them out of the range of the average families?
No dogs should be bred for "show quality" until they bring the "show" guidelines AND judging in line with what the breeds were originally supposed to be.

Look at Springer Spaniels, two distinct breeds. Show has "rage" just like Cockers. Field is bred to impress, not to hunt.
Cocker Spaniels, two distinct breeds and the Field bred became all but extinct and the Show was overbred until you couldn't trust them around humans. That's what show breeding did and does to many breeds.
Lab games have very little to do with hunting, show is not a working dog, field is not a working dog. So yes, there does need to be "family quality" purebreds, the dog that has the energy to hunt and then be calm enough to curl up at your feet at home.

The show "game" is so bad about ruining dog breeds many purebred dog clubs fight to keep their breeds from being recognized by the AKC.
Look at the Farm Dog registries if you want to see how dogs should be bred. The most important thing for registration is their ability to do their job not their looks or whether they can impress a judge in a ring. Look at the vast differences in size and looks of Border Collies, yet they all are very smart and have a strong desire to herd.
The ABCA has gone as far as delisting any Border Collie that wins AKC conformation championships. I would venture to guess that every ABCA type registered Border Collie is from a backyard breeding and only the AKC fake Border Collies are from show breeders. Mine was from a fence jumping and his pedigree was amazing as was his desire to work.

I wondered about the possibility of trolling too. Seems she kept on pushing the line to see how far it would take before people turned.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 9:37AM
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Only hyperactive, overbred dogs with genetic problems

You're making a lot of assumptions about show breeding. Yes, there are many breeds that have been poorly bred, and I'll be the first to admit it, but there are many other breeds that are doing just fine, and produce healthy animals. There's a lot of people who disparage show breeding without actually knowing a thing about it.

As for purebred dogs costing so much, I'll say this again: a reputable breeder does NOT make money on their litters. When you figure in the cost of stud fees, transport, genetic testing, veterinary care for the dam and pups, etc. -- most reputable breeders are lucky to break even. Are all breeders in the AKC reputable? Absolutely not. But it really pisses me off when people paint every single show breeder as destroying the breeds and doing it for money. It simply is not true.

Getting back to the OP, I'm firmly convinced that she is a troll. She knows what kind of response she will get in this forum when she posts that she is breeding her dog. Yet, she makes a post mentioning it every month or two just to stir the sh!t and get everybody up in arms.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 12:07PM
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Getting back to the OP, I'm firmly convinced that she is a troll. She knows what kind of response she will get in this forum when she posts that she is breeding her dog. Yet, she makes a post mentioning it every month or two just to stir the sh!t and get everybody up in arms.

Yes, she does. And she gets us every time.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 1:14PM
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Best course is to ignore the poster.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 2:04PM
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Even if she's a troll who's just amusing herself, you never know how many lurkers we may reach and convince that careless breeding is a bad thing so it's probably worth it.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 5:39PM
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Bumblebeez SC Zone 7

Good point, deb.
We've all seen sights that show # of posts, maybe 20, for instance, with 23,000 views! There is usually a huge number who look but don't post.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 10:08PM
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You know, I thought this all sounded familiar.

Here is a link that might be useful: My intact female lab is wandering...

    Bookmark   March 4, 2010 at 7:30AM
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The OP has made 3 posts in this posting.

Wed, Feb 24, 10 at 13:17
Sat, Feb 27, 10 at 9:23
Mon, Mar 1, 10 at 9:27

She hasn't replied to anyone since Monday and today is Thursday.

She is most likely sitting back and getting her jollies at the ruckus she has created. She knows when she posts about breeding, having a litter, etc., that she is posting controversial comments. She knows it. She's done it before. Each time prefacing her comments with something to the effect of "I'm going to do this so don't flame me." Because she knows her comments will generate lots of feedback.

The best thing for everyone to do is to just stop replying to her. You know darn well she is sitting back and laughing at all of the responses everyone is posting. Just stop. Let this thread fall to the bottom. Maybe she will go away or discontinue behaving like a troll.

    Bookmark   March 4, 2010 at 11:48AM
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