My stupidly expensive, huge, over-done kitchen.

CEFreemanFebruary 7, 2014

Did I get your attention?
Bet you can't wait to see what comes next.
Remind yourself I'm seldom P.C. I won't strain myself by attempting that cowardly behavior at this last stage in my life. This post isn't about me and my extreme, most admirable creativity. I'll save that for another rant.

I'm going to let off some disgust steam.

If you're going to show your kitchen, show it.
How big it is or how much you did or didn't pay for your work is inconsequential (correct me if I'm wrong) unless it's in relation to how the heck you pulled it off. Granted, less is usually better and ingenuity is applauded, but it's the function and detail people look at. It's ideas, people! Ideas!

If you're that insecure about how big or how much you did or didn't pay for your kitchen, let me help you: suck it up and show your goods without useless, boring and silly disclaimers. Save 'em for your RL visitors who will admire your kitchen as well. No one pays undeserved compliments here, nor do they post (generally) if they don't have something good to say. (Those folks don't last long on any forum.) But I think you'll all agree that we all want to see the eye candy.

I recognize that the people posting the disclaimers evidently do care, but it's pretty unproductive, don't you think? If you're embarrassed about any element of your kitchen, why would you reveal? Come on. Just gimme give us the eye candy and spare everyone the necessity of reassurances and pacification. Enjoy the compliments and pat your own bad self on the back. You deserve it, even if it's for merely, actually finishing the darned thing.

Remember: E.Y.E. C.A.N.D.Y. Forget chocolate, kitchens.

There. I'm done. Show me the kitchens. Feed me.

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Whoa somebody didn't take their meds today--kidding btw. I love the pics too and have used them for better or worse in my also way too expensive kitchen remodel. I love E.Y.E. C.A.N.D.Y.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 8:50PM
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"Meds? Who needs MEDs!?" she screamed, waving her arms wildly.

"More candy," she whispered.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 8:53PM
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Interesting! I'm not bothered at all by the "disclaimers."

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 9:04PM
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LOL, CEFreeman! I don't mind explanations, exhaustive exposition, exemplars, or excessive excerpts of any kind, but am glad you do, because I'll be chuckling all night over that last post.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 9:31PM
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And here I was ready to post "my cheaply done somebody's before kitchen one of these days with a bunch of scrounged stuff and no eye candy at all." Oh well!

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 9:35PM
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Carrie B

I do like it when people post dimensions & budget - helps me get a sense of what I can (or can't) realistically do in my own kitchen. Don't know if you're referring to those details.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 9:52PM
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Eye candy? We're supposed to have eye candy?

Can't we just share the gritty reality of our current desperate existence?

I can't take this pressure.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 9:56PM
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carrieb, details are far different than disclaimers.

Mudhouse? we call the gritty reality of our current desperate existence "Before." So yes, please do. We'll all revel in the changes! Not a single kitchen doesn't ever look brighter and usually very sleek. So plan ahead with "befores!"

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 10:20PM
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I agree! GW is terrific about reveling in the changes from before to after, and I was sort of kidding, since I did just reveal my gritty "before" reality in a thread. (Sorta feels to me like every pair of eyeballs between here and Czechoslovakia has now been in my before kitchen...which is very weird!)

Kidding aside, I think I know the kind of statements you're referring to, but for some reason they don't bother me. If somebody says, "I know my faucet is not the Famous Whizbang Faucet, but it's what I could afford," I agree that's an unnecessary disclaimer, but I just acknowledge that they are feeling the very human emotions that go along with baring your soul (and private home) to the internet world.

I probably penned a few unnecessary disclaimers, myself, in my thread. I go on too much. (Maybe you've noticed.)

I'm mostly just happy folks keep showing up with new goodies so we can all keep slurping up the good ideas. I'll take any narrative that goes along with it. I agree with you that the ideas are the sweet part.

(Which reminds me, you posted some photos recently of some wooden cabinets with wonderful, real, raw, interesting textures that I thought were just awesome. I love your fearless approach to those materials.)

I always enjoy your posts, and your approach to all things kitchen!

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 11:04PM
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Mudhouse, please. Have you "met" me!?
You're talking to the Queen of Going On. Have you ever seen me write a short post!?

I do get why one might in the face of baring their soul, but still, why apologize for what one chooses? I hope -- and think I'm right -- that posting a finished product is an act of pride. Because there isn't anyone who shouldn't be proud of these huge accomplishments!

If one would have preferred something else, that's fine, but we all do what we can, right? I plan soapstone. I have Wilsonart laminate that a friend made me. I'm not disclaiming, nor using self-deprecation. I have a nice countertop I could afford until I save for what I really want. Might be 10 years, but hey. What else do I have to do? I digress.

It's the constant continued thing about (essentially) the mystery "they" who have more passing some unspoken judgment. There is ALWAYS someone in the world that has more than someone else. Period. Doesn't mean one must be apologetic or denigrate (by disclaimer) their own choices, creativity or lovely finished product. Plus, it wastes time, space, and opportunity for more details and eye candy.

I really have never, ever, in all my years here nor on other boards, seen someone else who has been so rude/unkind/pompous/condescending in such a manner, that would be so mean and hurtful. Not even the mystery "they." Recently there seems to be these references to some unnamed, unknown members, who hold some line between big/small, costly/inexpensive, good/bad. Huh? A "budget board" for example.

I guess maybe I just appreciate so much a completed (or really, in progress) kitchen that I get impatient (yes, I do) with what I see as some kind of weird fishing for reassurance. A finished kitchen? Crow it from the rooftops and show everyone! Please. Do it for me.

I know I have never received anything but such kind advice and comments. Shoot. I'd take a "ARE YOU CRAZY" sometime, and seriously consider the question if someone here actually asked it. Because it would be so out of the norm, I MUST be crazy!

And thank you for the compliments. I'm working on my stuff. It's not fearlessness. Poverty is the mother of invention.

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 11:26PM
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NO! Don't tell people cost is inconsequential!! They might stop posting it! I LOVE when people are brave enough to itemize the cost of their kitchen! Such a great point of reference! I would've done it too, but I was afraid my mother may see it one day (i'd have had to blur out the pictures of my kitchen to protect the innocent)

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 11:28PM
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I say whatever process someone needs to go through to enable them to post pictures of their before and afters, let 'em do it. Sure, the pictures are great, but the real entertainment (for me) is reading the posts that go along with them. Leave out all the natural human emotions and I may as well just leaf through pictures on houzz all day (not that I'm above that).

    Bookmark   February 7, 2014 at 11:49PM
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I think Christine is (maybe I'm wrong) reacting to the ridiculous, "Here is my new, but compared to everybody else's inadequately sized, furnished, applianced, fixtured, designed, painted, BS-ed, inset-ed, drawer-ed, continent-ed (ref. to size of island), etc. kitchen, for which I only could afford to pay X thousands of dollars which is in itself evidence of my inadequacy, etc., but here's the pictures, anyway" preface.

I have read nearly every single post on KF for more than a decade and I can not recall a single instance when someone's kitchen was judged - by anyone - to be not up to some mythical collective, high-end, standard.

So, please, cut the disclaimers. Really, just get over yourself and if you going to post pics, just do it.

Not everybody's taste is the same - or static: currently I will hit the back browser before the bottom half of a picture showing white, inset cabs, calacatta-countered, open to the family room, kitchens can d/l, because I'm sick to my back teeth of them. But I don't think less of those who do love them, no matter how big or small or expensive or cheap.

And anyway, rumor has it that I only care about functional food pathways and would be perfectly happy with a 1980's, golden oak, cathedral arched, tile-countered (with wide-grout), blue duckling with gingham neck ribbons wallpaper- bordered, kitch as long as I never had to backtrack (not even once!) during meal prep.

So, please, post your pics, we're going to love on them no matter what because we all suffer from an unsatiable appetite for kitchens.

Feed us!

(Apologies to Christine, if I'm not gettng it.)


    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 12:10AM
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CHRISTINE" Saw "Phantom of the Opera" tonight. So wishing my name was "Christine". Sorry for the off topic. Couldn't help myself.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 12:43AM
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I see what you are saying about wasting time/space/words, that could be used for helpful information. You’re right, we could be talking about juicy stuff, instead of talking about whether or not they should be worried about how their kitchen measures up (to some imaginary standard) in size, cost, or complexity.

I think what you’re asking for is for people to be a little more self confident, and a little more reassured, on their own, that their choices are good. To step up and say, “I did this, I’m proud of it, and lemme show it to you.” I like that suggestion.

At the risk of sounding too mamby-pamby, one thing I consider is that people who post a reveal here could be seeking reassurance because they don’t have a lot of support from people in the real world around them. Friends, family, spouses, and neighbors often weigh in on big projects, and they don’t always share the vision.

That would explain posting a reveal, hoping for reassurance, because nobody they know in real life is TKO, or really gets what they are trying so hard to achieve. Their lack of confidence on some decisions may have nothing to do with their GW experiences.

I think (?) you probably don't care if folks include price info, you mostly just wish people wouldn’t worry, one way or another, that they’ll be judged by what they spent. Because, that conversation gets in the way of the good stuff. (Am I getting warm?)

I do appreciate price info (no matter what the budget size.)

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 1:13AM
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I find the scroll bar to be very helpful in skimming past what I do not want to read.

It's a big deal to put your house out there into the internet ether and can make someone feel a little insecure. And now they should feel insecure about their insecurity? I have found a lot of those reveal posts that include budget info to be very useful in planning my kitchen. The stuff that isn't useful to me is easily scanned over. NBD.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 1:55AM
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(pre-reveal disclaimer)I'm going to use frog tape (14.99)to hold the forehead wrinkles at bay as I type up my impending reveal... someday...maybe... before I croak... haha (not)

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 2:20AM
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robo (z6a)

Whenever I see the words small, tiny, diy, ikea or budget in a reveal title, I'm much more likely to look at the reveal because it's closer to my interests and I find budget workarounds interesting. I see it more as a humble brag or point of pride than a disclaimer. Same with layout help threads - I'm more drawn to small, mcm, vintage, facelift threads than I am double island new construction kitchens, simply because it's closer to what I deal with. Plus the problem solving is more tricky.

Cef, my impression has always been that you're justifiably proud of your ingenuity and diying so I'm not sure why others shouldn't be.

This post was edited by robotropolis on Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 6:45

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 6:43AM
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The difference between details and disclaimers- I am confused.
It's pretty hard when surrounded by diamonds and sables to scream with confidence about the beauty of your bluejeans and cardigan(even when the blue jeans have hand-embroidered patches and the cardigan you knit yourself!)
If someone feels the need to have a disclaimer that's OK with me. Do I wish that they didn't feel that need -yes. But, we don't live in a kind world. People get criticized for the smallest faux pas. Heck, people get shot via road rage for failing to signal when they change lanes. It can give one pause.
To show my feminist hand, woman in particular battle with insecurity demonstrated by the need to apologize, to disclaim, to seek approval and affirmation. Let's be there for one another.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 7:57AM
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There are people reading this forum to get ideas who are approaching their renovation at widely different levels of scope as well as price. There are those of us who have hung around long enough to have done a couple of renovations (IâÂÂm at 3 and counting) at widely different scope of work points as well as price points, yet have turned to GW Kitchens for inspiration for both. This forum would not have 1/2 the readership that it does if the âÂÂmodestâ or âÂÂminimal scopeâ renovations didnâÂÂt post their before/afters, and details. I even find/found that the âÂÂout of my leagueâ renovations were really helpful in guiding me toward higher-end looks, even with a lower-end budget.

This is all to say that the modest renovations, as well as the freshen-the-look-of-this-kitchen posts are an important part of the community here, and *should* post frequently, proudly and without any qualifiers or apologies. I believe sharing the price paid is really helpful to those readers in the planning stages, I wish it was routinely shared on here -- though totally understand the âÂÂdonâÂÂt want my mom to read itâ -- IâÂÂd add that I wouldnâÂÂt want m neighbors to read it, either. Or the inlaws. :-/

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 8:17AM
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Interesting thread.
There is one assumption that everybody spend as much as they can afford. However, keep in mind that there are people who could easily spend more on a kitchen (house, car, or whatever) but CHOOSE not to. In that case, it's obviously a lot easier to feel confident about one's puny kitchen.
As others have said, I like to read about the kitchens that prove a challenge whether it be budget-wise or planning-wise. If I want to see a 150K kitchen, I can do so in glossy magazines or houzz.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 8:34AM
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I never, ever, suggested not posting prices, bargains, extravagances, curb finds, nor heirlooms.

I emphatically state we don't care/judge if it's enough, too much or too little spent. That's irrelevant. It's the END PRODUCT and how it came about that all of us like to see come about.

Magsnj: Your MIL is just jealous her son chose you and you have a new kitchen & she's still slaving over a hot plate and a fire place. Which are stylishly done in turquoise of the 50s.

liriodendron, you GET ME. Totally. Have I told you I've always loved you? And ducks. With blue ribbons on their neck. But, I prefer blue duct tape.
I also pass on the "Show me your white kitchens" because there are 10000s of threads on that and I think that's lazy. I do, however, admire the patience of the folks who (I'm glad to say proudly) repost their kitchens and details again. I sure don't have it -- I had to quit reading them because I was getting V.E.R.Y. impatient. Wrong, wrong wrong of me on such that technicality. I admit sometimes I look just in case someone's posting a new picture, but I sure don't read. (eye candy) And if there's beaded inset? Who needs sex when I can look at beaded inset cabinets.

And now Mudhouse, By Jove, you've got it, too! So exactly. I like prices, too, because then if I, The Indigent One, like it, I can figure out how to make it happen for me.

You could very well have a point about no support at home. In such a case, the poster sure did take it upon itself (notice the generic used for kitchen creator? No sexism here.) to make choices it knew it loved. Most likely with a lot of input from here. I think I'm actually being supportive in saying, "Stand up! Be proud! You deserve it!" [whisper] quit being obsequious and, well, quit fishing! [/end whisper] Finished = GREAT!

Threegraces, I skim. God do I skim. But to learn about the poster's reveal, I have to read their post. At least that one. And that's where the "I hope I'm good enough for those mythical judges" makes me snort with "eh" again.

Deedles, I'm still waiting to see the results. That took either some "who gives and EF," great confidence, or knowing my kitchen friends will just laugh and not get into how old and dirty I'm looking, how the adhesive will suck off my skin, how cell fone flashes cause cancer, blah blah. That kind of does demonstrate my point, right? Here I go..... Love me or turn the page.

Robotropolis (great name - gonna watch Robocop?) I like to look at small, too. Mine is 12x10' which isn't big and it isn't small. It's jam packed with flavorful goodness & nutrition. No, I guess that's my Cookie Dough because I seldom cook anything good for me. My kitchen is gonna be totally cool. And I will finish. I promise.

Localeater, read liriodendron's post. I think she put the difference between details & disclaimers better than I. Sure, we're slapped down and told to smile most of our lives, but that IS MY POINT. It's NOT necessary here. If anyone actually reads the board, they'd see that among the diamonds and gold tiles, there is an abundance of smaller, lower budget and DIY kitchens. Again, has anyone ever read someone else slamming a finished kitchen? I think the worst I've seen (might come from me) has been something like, "You know, I've never liked white kitchens, but you've done it so well, it's fresh, spacious and very well done." How terrible would that be to hear. Not.

And don't be afraid to let me know who has those jeans and that cardigan. I will trade previous life items, such as my two minks, my pearls and my diamond earrings. Ok, I'll throw in the diamond necklace to sweeten the deal. I want that outfit.

Krisma, exactly. EGG-zactly. The details help us all. The time wasted on ego bolstering is unnecessary. Goodness, the comments that come with a finished kitchen reveal would feed my very strange little ego for the rest of my life -- let alone every time I walk into my finished kitchen. Oh, heck. Every time I actually post some picture, I feel great because of the comments I get.

E.Y.E. Candy. nom nom nom
(Going to the store today. Going to try to avoid the cookie dough aisle.)

This post was edited by CEFreeman on Sun, Feb 9, 14 at 18:00

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 8:58AM
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So true, jellytoast! In most areas of life I'm a secure, confident person blessed with health, love, and financial stability. But the remodeling of my kitchen brought out insecurities and obsessions that may have swallowed me if not for GW. Learning about drawers, work zones, rocks in the kitchen 1-4, plumbing, lighting, etc etc was fabulous but the kindness and support here really meant more to me than all of that. A compliment from Romy, admission of difficulty by Sparklingwater, and the gentle encouragement of Holly-kay kept me off meds (we aren't counting liquor or chocolate, right?) and still matter more to me than even my beloved tapmaster. Friends and family have complimented my kitchen but they don't really know or understand the way the GW TKO faithful do.
One of my all time favorite threads was a new build in which the op got the info and encouragement she needed to put on her big girl pants and demand the cabinet hood she wanted. The pictures were the least important part of that one.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 9:03AM
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I get it, kksmama!
And look at the thread recently where someone mentioned they just "stared at [the speaker's] shoes," which she learned how to do here, when people were telling her it couldn't be done, or it's not done "that" way. Or the best, "You don't need that."

Tips & Tricks, right down to handling bullies, doubters, crooks & thieves! I think there's a song in there somewhere. HOW things are accomplished. What someone paid for x, but NOT its merit in comparison to The Mystery Judges. How someone got to The Reveal!

I also appreciate the in-progress threads, where one asks for experience or advice. Or, really importantly, double checks what really one already knows in one's heart!
I completely get asking for reassurances about things like:
My faucet swings 360 degrees and pours water out my kitchen window. Is that how it's supposed to be, or am I being picky?
My granite is seamed with sanded grout. Do I dare complain?
My contractor smokes cigars and wants all their $$ up front. They come well-recommended. Should I....?
My drawers don't match, doors don't close, slam into each other, don't open at all, paint and religious verses all over my cabinets, or just ...
What's your opinion? Vote!

And no, chocolate, liquor in any form, cookie dough, brownies, cream cheese or cool whip are not controlled substances and don't count. Don't worry. You're in good company yet again!

(Edited to correct my pearls of wisdom and/or incredible, insightful comments. Or just my spelling.)

This post was edited by CEFreeman on Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 10:32

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 10:20AM
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like this post.

i personally like to know how much people paid. there are some 50-100K kitchens on here, and I would not do that where I live - the most expensive place in my hood sold for 890, but the average is 250.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 11:04AM
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Darn, i thought we could comiserate. Expensive is one thing, but I seem to do stupid expensive quite consistently.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 11:54AM
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Mtnrdrdux, so do I.
But I do it by allllllllmost finishing something, changing my mind, giving it away, and starting all over again.

Everything I do becomes stupidly, unnecessarily expensive -- but I'm not going to look for approval about it. It's mine, I changed my mind, and that's all she wrote! :)

We can commiserate the same, yet differently!

Detroit_burb, you don't get it. Check out liriodendron who said what I mean, far better than I said it. It's not about how much people paid, it's about unnecessary comparison.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 3:16PM
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" .... but I'm not going to look for approval about it."

CEFreeman, maybe you have grown and evolved to the point where you no longer need approval from others, but I think there are probably plenty of people out there who haven't reached that point yet. Sometimes it takes a lifetime to reach that point, if then. If we aren't going to judge people or criticize them on their kitchens, why should we judge them or criticize their method of presenting them?

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 4:10PM
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In some weird way, jellytoast, I agree with you.
Very astute of you.

That makes me even sadder for them.
I must learn to handle obsequiousness better, I guess. Never been good at that.
And... I should probably continue to work on my patience. That's been a life-long endeavor that ebbs and flows.

As far as my need for approval from others. I fought life far too long under that cloud. Spent too many years being my own worst judge in vague fear of another's disapproval. Sometimes just some Mystery Another. Although I still try to be nicer to myself, I have no one to please but myself. I love every minute of it, every idea, every mind-change, and every purchase (every return) without the need to have an imperceptible nod. It's quite freeing. "Oops!" becomes something to laugh about.

When (not if) I am able to show my completed kitchen, I promise to do it crowing from the rooftops. Of course, I might have to do it without my soapstone, 'cause that's gonna take me ages to pay for. Promise, though. I'll go out and get up on my roof and have my neighbor take my picture. I'll be proud 'cause I did it my own bad self.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 5:47PM
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Holly- Kay

Oh Christine you crack me up. I have to admit avidly searching for any and all posts by CEF! You are just a treat!

Kksmama, how nice to know that I helped to encourage you!

I won't ever reveal what my crazy renovation cost cause I don't wanna know. Not now, not ever!

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 7:42PM
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holly-kay, as much as I write, you'll be reading for decades. I've been on Gardenweb alone since 2004. Mostly in Mid-Atlantic Gardening in the early years. Then, a house fire and divorce brought me here.

I hope I remain entertaining! :)

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 8:36PM
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Nice post! Hmm. Now, there is one thing I forgot to do on my reveal - add the pricing. . . . that should pretty much fully document mine. Only problem is it is one of those "thousands of white kitchens" :)

You're right - need pictures. Love the eye candy.

    Bookmark   February 8, 2014 at 11:11PM
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Fun reading in the middle of the night.

I like the posts where people ask for opinions along the way. Then May_flowers or others photoshop with suggestions. Others post suggestions and pictures of tiles they've used. (LOL: I'm watching a TV show about fabrication.) I especially like when people have something installed and it doesn't look right, and the experts chime in. One can be assertive with work people if one knows what they are talking about.

Most especially, I almost wish I had another project to work on. Show me your quartzites!! I know every name now. And if I retire to a condo, I just may consider a marble or soapstone. Tile? I know the names now as well as I know shoe manufacturers. Inset cabinets, shaker, beaded; such terms roll off my lips.

I am still useless when it comes to lay-outs. And lighting.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2014 at 4:52AM
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I guess when I post any reveals I will have to be sure to not apologize for anything. ;) This is quite the topic.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2014 at 7:07AM
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I love this forum.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2014 at 8:19AM
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So you get it, aktillery. Be proud! Even if it's the biggest fail ever. We all get a kick out of those, because we can commiserate.
We all celebrate the finishes/wins.

Love you, too, deedles!

Bookworm, I'm with you! I think that's when this board shines the brightest. No pun intended, because I stink with lighting and layouts, too. It's so interesting to hear what people come up with. The pros, the ones who've learned all about a particular item (tile, right!?), those who have a, "Oh, God, don't do that!! I did and..."
There is one thing we cannot deny, is that there is an amazing amount of help and experience here on this board. Which is why it's so busy!

Happy Sunday, all. I'm stripping cabinet doors I'm going to cut down to fit in the face frames I made this week. Yeah!

This post was edited by CEFreeman on Sun, Feb 9, 14 at 10:24

    Bookmark   February 9, 2014 at 8:49AM
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I think disclaimers happen because of people's personalities. Some people are type-A and some are not. For the life of me I can't remember what the others are called. Geez, my daughter's wedding at my house and this remodeling has fried my poor little brain. I think I need a head transplant. Anyone have a spare?

Remember Bambi paraphrasing his mother's teachings? "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say nothing at all." I know a lot of people that are very careful of their words so maybe they use disclaimers so they won't appear to be bragging, or pushy, or ???

So everyone has their own way of telling a story here. I will gladly take help any way I can get it.

Disclaimer: Don't listen to me! It is 2:15 a.m. and I already told you I needed a head transplant. I can't even pick a backslash tile or paint color.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 3:19AM
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Years ago, I read the book - Hardball for Women. Winning at the Game of Business and heard the author speak.
One point from the book - women tend to want to level the playing field and apologize for just about everything, especially when complimented.
I love your dress - what, this old dress, I had it for years, etc
It is hard to just say "thank you".
I think we see this coming through in the posts as well. The apologies are human nature and I just take it in stride.
Anyway, a good read and lots of other good points in the book.

BTW I still love my kitchen but just didn't have space for 2 DW, a full sized fridge and freezer, a larger bake zone and an island. But I did purchase a boos rolling cart. LOL

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 5:27AM
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I would also like to see more prices in reveals (and all posts in general). I want to know if I can afford that (almost always No), or how they got such a good deal or made something work by substituting something similar. Don't mind the disclaimers. I honestly never even noticed them.

A2, don't feel bad you don't have 2 DW, etc ... I have 2 DW, 2 fridges, 2 sinks, 3 ovens (although 2 are in a double oven range). But I am somewhat unhappy with my trash storage (still working that solution though) and really do not like my miniscule pantry storage. I just had a brilliant idea ... I could use one of the DWs as rollout pantry storage. haha

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 9:22AM
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Posted by threegraces (My Page) on
Sat, Feb 8, 14 at 1:55

I find the scroll bar to be very helpful in skimming past what I do not want to read.

It's a big deal to put your house out there into the internet ether and can make someone feel a little insecure. And now they should feel insecure about their insecurity? I have found a lot of those reveal posts that include budget info to be very useful in planning my kitchen. The stuff that isn't useful to me is easily scanned over. NBD.


For years most people did not post photos or even know how to and yet forum members had no problem at all using their imaginations and conversations to envision a poster's kitchen or quandary about design.

Pity there is a decree going out to those who are deemed falling short of "how to post."

Enjoy the process and your finished kitchens, don't worry about what it costs or doesn't, and don't worry about what other posters "think."

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 9:29AM
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I'd like to third / fourth / whateverth post about cost. Searching online, and heavily on this board was beyond helpful when we were in our planning stages. Knowing just what to expect with regard to something like cabinets helped out a lot because I've done other kitchens in the past, but this is a new part of the country for us and we're doing the kitchen to a much higher level than the others I did. So, time to search around on GW to try and get a ballpark for what custom cabinets cost per linear foot just to know if we would be able to swing it or if it's a waste of time to even try, and to stick to semi-custom.

Now that we're most of the way through the rebuild process I'm thinking about doing a thread that shows all the structural, electrical, planning and other work that went into it. Less of a 'look at me' or before and after type thing, but more like 'here's what it takes to pull this off and the hidden surprises that pop up along the way,' unless that sort of thing is offensive for some reason.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 9:33AM
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>>Enjoy the process and your finished kitchens, don't worry about what it costs or doesn't, and don't worry about what other posters "think." Exactly, demifloyd.
Decree? hummm. if someone takes my impassioned plea that way, so be it.

Schicksal, >>'here's what it takes to pull this off and the hidden surprises that pop up along the way,' unless that sort of thing is offensive for some reason.Uh..., um. disclaimers. I think you know the answer to that, which demonstrates my point.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 9:44AM
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Ditto threegraces, demifloyd, and co.

When I get around to it, I'll structure my reveal post how I wish and it will probably give me comfort to use some of these phrases you seem to abhor. If I wished to get over that, I would see a therapist. I don't need to be told and commanded to do so by someone on the internet. Skip my reveal post (whenever that may be) I guess ;)

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 9:53AM
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prairiemoon2 z6 MA

Before anyone else gets offended, I'd like to suggest we all consider just dropping the subject. I have just started reading the Kitchen forum and it seems like a pretty friendly atmosphere. I've been happy to see everyone's 'reveal' threads and the information offered is so useful to anyone contemplating a remodel. Prices, dimensions, details, emotional and physical up and down of the process, all of it. There's something for everyone and if some of it is not for you, scroll on down. I'd hate to see anyone start to feel uncomfortable posting their photos and telling their story of their remodel.

I think everyone's take on this is clear and both sides of it have been heard, maybe we can just let this thread drop to the bottom of the page.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:07AM
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I was thinking part 1 (demo) through whenever we finish. We started on July 4th and once upon a time I thought we'd be done by Thanksgiving, maybe the end of the year (HA!). 8-10 weeks from now is our current guess. But I'm also the type that likes to see all the details and other things that can trip a project up in the middle. There's a lot more to a kitchen than thinking you have a design, buying cabinets and appliances and putting them in and it's easy to underestimate or overlook it. Call it giving something back to the board for all that was learned by searching, and adding to the encyclopedia of knowledge that's out there.

This post was edited by schicksal on Mon, Feb 10, 14 at 10:25

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:22AM
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"Now that we're most of the way through the rebuild process I'm thinking about doing a thread that shows all the structural, electrical, planning and other work that went into it. Less of a 'look at me' or before and after type thing, but more like 'here's what it takes to pull this off and the hidden surprises that pop up along the way..."

schicksal, personally I'd love to see this kind of thread. It would be helpful for those who are considering ripping into walls, wondering what's ahead. I've spent hours on the internet looking for the real (nitty-gritty) details of such things, and it's very hard to find.

When we raise our ceiling, I hope to document it in a thread. It won't be eye candy, but it will go into the archives, and might help somebody else with a similar situation. I know there are folks out there with low ceilings like ours, but nobody seems to take many (ugly) pics of how the annoying thing is fixed.

Plenty of room here for eye candy and the less pretty (but critical) "how to" as well. (I'm wagering CEFreeman is right along with me on this one, as an intrepid DIY gal herself.)

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:28AM
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schicksal, I was writing while you were posting. Exactly, adding to the encyclopedia of knowledge! I am all about archiving things in this forum so others will benefit. Doesn't even matter if it takes a few years for somebody to "need" your thread. They'll find it by keyword searching. When they do, it could be huge help!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:32AM
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RE: raising the ceiling, you're in luck because we did exactly that. We got lucky though - the room had 8 foot ceilings but no trusses or anything at all above.

If I can scare up pics at lunchtime I might get it started today... The last week has been either rush rush rush, or not much going on. Nothing in between.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:35AM
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I don't have two dishwashers or two sinks, but who else do you know who has FIVE (5) blind cabinets? I thought so. Disclaimer: They came with the house and didn't cost me anything. :p

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:47AM
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" ... Doesn't even matter if it takes a few years for somebody to "need" your thread. They'll find it by keyword searching. When they do, it could be huge help!"

Unless they've posted all their photos from their photobucket account and then closed the account at a later date ... that drives me nuts when all the pictures are missing out of a post!!!!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:52AM
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I can only dream of my reveal post, but I'm interested in a lot of the opinions posted in this thread. Re disclaimers, I feel sad that anyone would make excuses in advance for their house, their choices, their likes and dislikes, their compromises.

Believe you me, having sweated blood, tears and plaster dust for way too many months, I ain't apologizin' for nuttin' in my kitchen. ;)

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 10:58AM
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schicksal, cool! No rush whatsoever, I'll watch.

jellytoast, yup! My heart is regularly broken when I find the perfect thread to solve all my problems...and no pics. Downright cruel. We should all set up a trust fund to maintain our Photobucket accounts after we're gone...for future kitchen warriors. :-)

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 11:29AM
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I love U, zeebee!

I'm sad at those little picture place markers, too.
I'm afraid some of my own pics will because missing because I'm shutting down the website where I was storing them. Just as bad as photo bucket! Luckily, with more recent posts, I can edit and add the photos back in. Once they're iVillage property, they'll be there forever.

Linelle. FIVE? F.I.V.E.!?! five? That is insane. Your kitchen must look like one of those rope lines at the movies. I have to go back and read all your threads to figure out what you're doing with all that.
Oh - and you win. We've seen some odd "befores" but this is functionally right up there with, "WHAT were they thinking!?!?"

I feel a distinct craving for cookie dough. And steak. I'm needing a steak. I think my mind is wandering from lack of sugar.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 11:48AM
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Christine, when you have a G-shaped kitchen, you're gonna have some corners. When it's a small kitchen to boot, you need to maximize cabinet space.

Two of the BCs are not problems at all. I stick rarely used items in the back and the rest of the space functions as it should.

Another two BCs are at opposite ends (and opposite sides) of my peninsula and the space meets in the middle. Each side gives you access to half the space.

That leaves one more, the Blind Cabinet From Hell, where bowls and storage containers live and breed. I've considered Rev-a-whatevers and decided they really wouldn't make a whole lot of difference. I've rearranged the space many times only to have it return to chaos within a few days. I seriously laugh sometimes when I look inside and think of the GW purists who would highly disapprove.

A few months ago I did a new rearrangement. Instead of keeping lids with their containers, I stacked containers and put their lids in an adjacent, but separate place. So far so good.

Disclaimer: If 5 blind cabinets are the worst things in my life, I am indeed blessed.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 12:04PM
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Raising ceilings: looked easy in our summer/retirement place. Just take down the suspended ceiling tiles and grid! And the supersized florescent fixture. But after taking down the tiles, it turned out that a couple of the joists had been turned into swiss cheese with wiring and plumbing.

Oh -- and that wall? Turns out that the kitchen was an entry originally and not a kitchen at all. So there was the ghost of an extra wide doorway opening (for caskets, I presume, since the house was originally a funeral home). And all that was supporting the upstairs over that wall were the (sturdy) site built cabinets, now gone, with a bit of an assist from the swiss cheese joists.

And support for the window? Air.

So lots of new framing went into that kitchen.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 12:08PM
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Linelle, I say that kind of thing all the time. You made me laugh out loud.

chesters_house, it sounds like you have a very interesting home. Lots of drains in the basement? :)
Good thing you took that ceiling and wall down. Imagine, depending upon where you live, a natural disaster and what could have happen with such a finely balanced home.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 12:17PM
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chesters_house, I will now stop being jealous of folks who have the grid/ceiling tile arrangement, because I assumed that would be an easy fix, too.

Who knows what wonky framing is yet to be discovered over here. It is fortunate you found that before something scary happened! Not so fortunate for the wallet, however.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 12:45PM
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Yes on fixing that room. Above it is a bathroom. There used to be a bit of bounce to the floor, and worries that someone taking a bath would slosh down to the kitchen.

This summer's project is removing one of the seven doorways in the dining room.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 12:47PM
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I used to say something stupid when I got a compliment. Lately I've started saying "thank you" and it's a nice feeling.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 2:12PM
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Funny, isn't it? That just saying thank you before seemed so difficult and wrong?

My famous mom taught me that if you truly disagree with a compliment, simply say, "You're very kind," "You're too kind," "How kind of you!" It's nice just to have the words.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 2:54PM
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Chestershouse, sounds like you have what I have. We took down a raised ceiling too. Ours had 120 or so ugly plastic rectangles that didn't all match.

Once down we saw huge ac/heat ducts, uncapped hot electrical wiring, huge open holes that went into the attic, and 8' fluorescent lights. I guess the inspector never looked up.
We also found a metal I beam with another wood beam that formed an L shape. They had removed two outside load bearing walls. The wooden beam was resting on ONE 2x4 on one side and bolted to the metal I beam on the other side. 3 out of 4 bolts had sheared off and the last bolt was really bent. That one bent bolt was holding up our roof.

I am thinking paying for an inspection before purchase is not worth the money. I can walk around flipping switches on and off! LOL ( I know inspectors do more than that, but not where I live.)

By the way, we have a drain in a closet. Used to be for a furnace, but don't know what it was before that. It was on an outside wall.

Getting rid of all this "ugly" has been very educational. GW members have been instrumental in helping me.

By the way, check out the amount of expensive oak in the ceiling grid. We reused all of it.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 2:57PM
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Yikes, Peke! A strange combination: nice beams, cheap plastic, what looks like good floors, and a pile of half assed work above.
Mudhouse, on the plus side of your reno, it sounds like the kitchen is original, not a cobbled together addition. Still, the dropped ceiling is there for a reason, and maybe not a good one.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 3:52PM
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