Warming draw and inset cabinets can't do!

marioncohen1February 21, 2013

I was ordering my cabinets today when the KD told me that I can't do the panelled warming draw with the inset cabinets. It will not be flush with my other cabinets and look like a mistake. I was really disappointed because I am losing my 24 inch double oven and thought the warming draw would help when I entertain which I often do. If I do the warming draw it can't be panelled and I am afraid it will look funny as it has to go right next to my 30 inch wolf range. I have a small kitchen. Do I give up the warming draw or leave it Stainless? Its so big I am afraid its an eyesore right near the range. Now I second guess myself with choosing the inset cabinets. Ugh.. Help.. Sammad2@aol

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cookncarpenter

If you have room to have your cabinets built 25" deep, or pulled out from the wall an inch, you can make the paneled appliance door fit inset and flush.... just an idea

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 8:29PM
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Gooster

You can use google to search on the past forum discussions. I researched the same issue -- here's a summary of the discussions I recall:

a. One choice is a Dacor indoor/outdoor unit that is only 21 inches deep. This can be successfully integrated with an inset cabinet, but people have voiced concerns with steam.

b. Build your cabinets deeper than normal, and choose any number of warming drawers. Pay attention to venting. In general, you may lose your crisping capability.

Traditional Kitchen design by Kansas City Kitchen And Bath Wende Woodworking LLC

In general, many KDs and GCs will tell you it is impossible. It has been done, but it is not easy.

Other alternatives, if you can't alter the cabinets or are concerned with steam:

If you choose a Wolf drawer to place next to your Wolf range, it will be less noticeable in terms of flow. The handles will match and the range will likely already stick out, unless you've made your cabinets extra-deep.

If that still bothers you, Dacor makes the most flush of the WD. There is one with a recessed handle that sticks out the least from the cabinets. When slotted just under the counter edge, you can minimize the visual impact.

Eclectic Kitchen design by San Francisco Architect Andre Rothblatt Architecture

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 8:30PM
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Fori is not pleased

Stainless will look fine.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 9:35PM
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lascatx

I have the Dacor because I have 21" deep cabinets in my island. It should work, but many KDs don't know about it. It is marketed more for outdoor kitchens and bathrooms (towel warmer) where cabinets may be shallower.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 1:37AM
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jakuvall

It can be done with a Wolf. Specify no back at the warming drawer cutout.
Middle drawer left side of pic

NOTE- Wolf now requires the panel to have a number of routes in the back of the panel. This is not listed in the standard install docs or on the website. It can be done with a frame and panel door SO LONG as the panel is a minimum of 3/8 thick. On the one pictured the panel is MDF which helps a lot. Not sure I would do use a wooden panel with the required routing.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 7:45AM
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marioncohen1

Lascatz, how does the indoor/outdoor 21 inch warming draw work for you? Are their any issues with it compared to the indoor one? Thanks

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 8:32AM
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marioncohen1

Lascatz, how does the indoor/outdoor warming draw work for you? Are their any issues compared to the indoor warming draw?

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 8:34AM
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marioncohen1

jakuvall, so i can panel it if I buy the Wolf and have the take off the back? Not sure what you mean by routes in the back of the panel? Perhaps my cabinet guy can get me the same front in MDF but not sure. These are semi custom cabinets so I can't make then any deeper

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 8:40AM
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marioncohen1

Jakuvall, beautiful kitchen. My inset cabinets are only 24 inches deep so thats why my KD says I can't use the Dacor
panel ready warming draw because it will stick out. How deep are your insets? Who makes your Warming draw?

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 8:44AM
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jakuvall

The base cabinets are standard 24" deep. The warming drawer is a Wolf.
The instructions for the warming drawer come in the box. Was an unpleasant surprise, I had to send the panel back to the factory to get the routing done. You might be able to get a copy of the routing from an appliance dealer, or call Wolf, it is not on the website.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 9:07AM
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angie_diy

Not sure what you mean by routes in the back of the panel?

Pretty sure he meant "routed grooves," i.e., grooves that were cut by a router.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 11:14AM
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lascatx

The Dacor indoor/outdoor works fine. It only comes in the 24" width, so that is some limitation, but it keeps things warms, has a timer for auto shut off and variable temps. A warming drawer is really a pretty basic thing.

I also had the bases of my breakfast room hutch installed to give me 27" tot he front edge. It's not a hard thing to do if you don't want to or cannot make the cabinets themselves deeper. My base was a fixed depth refrigerator drawer unit and two 15" drawers that I figured were long and narrow enough. The deeper installation of the bases allowed me to go with 15 inch uppers and that has made a real difference. Eight glasses fit in two rows instead of three -- times 2 or 3 repeats on each shelf. Look at what else you are doing and see if it makes sense to stay with a standard depth and make a modification.

I think the no back he was talking about is the cabinet? I think you would want the back of the warming drawer unit to contain food and protect the interior of the cabinet.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 11:24AM
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marioncohen1

Thanks Jakuvall, let me get this straight. Your cabinets are 24 inch deep like mine and they are also inset like mine and you were able to use a panel ready Wolf warming draw? Thanks for your help
sammad2@aol.com

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 12:14PM
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ILoveRed

I looked for an old thread and couldn't find it, so that I could just link the old info.

My wd is a 27" wide Dacor. My oven cabinet is 24" deep. My wd is 7 yrs old and it is full depth and it fits into that cabinet fine and is fully inset with a panel.

Your KD has to plan carefully and it requires a small frame to be built on each side of the chassis as in the picture.

Would I recommend you do it? No. It looks beautiful, but in hindsight I would rather have a wd that vents which you will not get with this Dacor. I think the SS wd will look great next to the wolf and you will have a venting wd.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 1:06PM
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jakuvall

Marion- yes cabinets are 24" deep inset with a Wolf warming drawer paneled. It is the only 30" warming drawer I know of that works with inset.
Grooves about 1.125" w x .25" deep are routed into the back of the drawerhead and align with vents on the mounting plate. The back of the section where the drawer goes is open. I had the factory do that but can be done in the field.

Note that if you have enough aisle space there are ways to get the extra depth with any cabinet line if you need to go that way.

A little creative ordering is needed on the ends of the cabinets. I'm surprised that a semi-custom offering inset cabinets doesn't do either increase depth OR extend sides back. There are many that do. I mean most often the drawerhead for these is often not a standard. Notice in the photo that I had the intermediate rail omitted on both drawer bases.

As Redlover said- any warming drawer in inset cabinets requires careful detailing and proper instalation.

Oh and my clients cabinets now- not mine. .

    Bookmark   February 22, 2013 at 7:42PM
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marioncohen1

Wow, Jakuvall, you are very knowledgable, I am impressed. I can't do the Wolf because it is double the price of the Dacor. They are charging like $1800 and that does not include what you decide to put on the front (stainless or Panel) I can't spend that on a warming draw so I am going to try the panelled Dacor. I spoke with my contractor and he says he can take an inch or so from the wall thats behind it which leads to my den.. I hope it works.. Thanks

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 9:33AM
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marioncohen1

Jakuvall, can you explain why you used an MDF panel on this? Do you think I should ask if that one panel can be MDF? Thinking the color might be off even though I am also doing white. Also do you think I should ask for that cabinet back to be left open? does that effect the heating and is it safe?

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 9:42AM
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marioncohen1

Red-Lover, I am going to take a chance and do the Dacor Warming draw ( I would do the S Steel Wolf which would solve my problem since it would not be panelled and match my Wolf Range but its more then double the price)I just want to know why the Dacor won't vent? Is venting important for the warming draw?

Someone up there doesn't want me to have the W Draw..

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 9:50AM
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marioncohen1

Gooster your ideas on the panelled warming draw were great too. I am going to try to do the Dacor and have the contractor take an inch or so from the back wall. Can you explain why I may have a venting issue and if it will effect the food? Unfortunately the Wolf warming draw which would solve my problems is out of my budget and more then double the price.. Thanks I also like the Dacor with the no handle.. Good option too.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 9:58AM
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ILoveRed

Marion...if you are planning the inset warming drawer I hope you have a competent KD and that you are not planning or hoping that your contractor will get it right. He won't.

If its not done carefully, it won't work. The chassis has to sit deeper than normal into the cavity, then a frame constructed. The panel has to be the right size and so does the cutout.

As far as humidity control...think about it. If the drawer is totally closed into a cabinet, how could humidity be allowed to escape? The drawers that are SS have a venting mechanism on the outside that allow you to open up the vent and vent some of the humidity out..which will keep your food from getting soggy. None of the inset drawers will allow you to vent.

My drawer front is the same as my other cabinets (wood not mdf) and is has not warped in 7 yrs, but my cabinets are Woodmode and the quality may be better than most. So, I'm no help there.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 6:16PM
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jakuvall

The reason for the mdf is the extra routing required with the Wolf , that leaves only a little material. As I said I'm not sure how I feel about doing that in solid wood. Most better brands use MDF for the panel with paint so not an issue. The routing doesn't go into the frame so wood is fine there.
BTW. Redlover- if you have a recessed panel style in Wood-Mode you have MDF- they do not do a reverse raise with solid wood. At least not as of 3 years ago, despite repeated requests. I sold them for a decade.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2013 at 7:12PM
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ILoveRed

Jacuvall--

I don't know, I'm certainly not an expert. My cabinets were installed in 2005. They are Wood-Mode. Hancock door style. I didn't think I was paying for MDF...I thought I was paying for maple. Now, I'm wondering!!

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 11:17AM
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jakuvall

red- not to worry really- you got what you paid for in any case- they make a great cabinet and always use the most appropriate material. We wanted reverse raised for a few colors AND to keep the public happy. Not necessarily because it was always a better choice (it's not)
I handle QCCI which is usually a little pricier, offers a reverse raised if I want it, but will not do that on painted cabinets without a disclaimer.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2013 at 2:04PM
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