Dog stays in the house all day.....

gurley157fsOctober 22, 2006

O.K. since this IS the debate forum I am going to jump in the 'deep end' and address one of my pet peeves:

Dog owners who leave thier pets in the house or in a cage while they are away at work.

I don't understand why people think that this is an acceptable thing to do to an animal.

IMO if you are going to lock your pet up in a house or cage for any amount of time - and expect them to not to urinate or defacate - then you should not be allowed to go to the bathroom until they do.

I know plenty of people who leave thier animals at home and then are surprised that the animal makes messes in the house. Yet they have gone to the bathroom several times that day - what's up with that?

I wanted to adopt a greyhound but the greyhound org. said that they could not stay outside during the day. I have a large enclosed kennel with a comfortable house to get out of the elements but they would prefer I lock the animal up in the house the 8-9 hours I am gone. I think that is cruel.

My friends that keep thier dogs inside say they don't have a choice - they don't have a place to keep it outside - then I say don't have the dog.

Any thoughts on this subject?

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I litter box trained my Doxie. When we are at home he goes outside most times but he will go to his litter box also. They sell dog litter at petsmart along with a litter box. It was as easy as pie to train my Doxie. When we got him at 7 weeks that is where I took him all the time, then when he got older and I could walk him in the evenings he went outside. I am retired now, so he has the choice. When it is raining, you can forget it, it's the litter box. But if it is pretty outside and not too hot or cold he chooses outside. My aussie stays in a kennel during the day if we are gone. If we are home she is in the house with us. So she can go when she needs to.

    Bookmark   October 22, 2006 at 7:52PM
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What would you have us do? For those who must leave their homes to earn a living and must crate their dog until it can be trusted not to eat everything in site or mess on the rug, should they not be entitled to the companionship of a pet during the hours when they are not at their job or weekends? What are you kidding? People who crate their dogs when they are away from the house are called INTELLIGENT.

If you were to ask my 3 well taken care of labradors what they think, they would tell you that the have it pretty darn good. One is now almost 12. She is taken care of like a queen and yes, she has to stay at the house sometimes for that many hours without a potty break.

However, since she is in her senior years, I have recently been having someone come and give her a break if she's going to be in for longer than 5 hours. The other two could hold it for 12 hours. They don't because they too benefit from the potty break because of the older one. What about that is cruel.

When you crate train your dog it is so they learn to hold off going until you take them out to go. Now do not think I am advocating pushing the envelope. Certainly intermittent bathroom breaks are a must, but a dog over the age of one year and up until at least 7 or 8 years of my breed (labradors) can go that long without a potty break.

When I got my first lab 20 years ago both my husband and I both worked full time career jobs. Sometimes twelve hours away from home. My guy never once messed on the floor for having to be in the house too long. He got all the love and attention needed when we came home from work, exercise, etc. Weekends he got to swim, go on walks (I live in wooded area), taken on picnics, etc. Give me a break.

Are you are saying that it is your opinion that people that are in a two income family situation should not have pets because they have to be in the house for the day?

Glad you shared your opinion of an ideal situation. I think your kennel cannot be compared to the luxury of laying on my sofa or one of my comfy chair, or for that matter, my king bed whilst I am working to pay the bills.

    Bookmark   October 22, 2006 at 8:27PM
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labmomma, I hope you don't think that I was advocating not having a dog, because of the need for the dog to hold his potty. No, No, I was just describing my situation. I have had dogs that I had to do the same thing as you when I worked. I have heard this, but am not sure if this is true. Dogs can hold themselves for long, long periods of time. When they were in the wild, to avoid being attacked by other dogs when they were alone they would hold themselves until they got in a safe area where their feces or urine would not be detected by smell. Please, I mean't no harm. Maybe I just didn't word my post right. I have always had Doxies and only when I got my Coal did I hit on the idea of using a litter box. I tried it and it worked. I thought it would give another owner of a small dog an idea. That's all. Also, I live in the south where it is extemely hot in the summers and a humid cold in the winters so my kennel is heated and air conditioned, actually it is a storage house that my DH grew out of with his wood working. We fixed it up for my Aussie. We did the best we could, and I am sure your Labs have it better in the house, but like you I still want the companion of my dogs. My Aussie also stays in the house when we are home, which is most of the time as I am an amputee in a wheelchair now (from diabetes). My dogs are a great source of comfort. I appreciate pet owners that love their dogs, and from the post I have seen from you, I know you love your dogs and are passionate about their care.

    Bookmark   October 22, 2006 at 9:01PM
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Tatya and the foster Rottie Kate Moss would seriously hurt themselves if given access to the entire house. Tatya eats things- my coffee table (goodness knows what the dusting products can do to them), her toy box (splinters badly) some of my plants (not altogether digestible and some are poisonous), the rugs (can easily cause blockages). Kate Moss has gone through a screen window already; I am afraid what would happen if she was out all day. She could probably bust through the glass window or through the door if she tried. I don't have a fenced yard, so leaving them outside is not an option. Plus outdoors Tatya would have access to any animal that crossed her path. I would hate for her to kill my neighbors' cats or another mockingbird or something. Not to mention that with 5 purebreed dogs, I'd worry about them getting stolen if they were outside.

My other 3 are fine loose inside the house. When I am home, they sleep all day anyway. I walk them all in the morning so they are tired for at least most of the day. Then I walk them again at night. I make sure they go potty before I leave, and they learn pretty quick not to drink too much when I'm gone. Only K'Ehleyr sometimes pees in the house, but since I mostly have laminate floors it doesn't matter. I don't mind that much really. She was an outdoor dog for 8 years before I got her, so never really was housetrained. The fact that she figured out that I prefer her to go outside at all is amazing to me. That she pees in the house maybe 2 times a week is fine. I'm hoping eventually Tatya gets over her destructive phase (she's a 1 year old Husky so that can still be a long time off) and she won't have to be crated any longer. I was able to leave my previous Husky Aleks out of the crate in 3 years. Ana was good in 8 months, but then she's always been the most trainable Husky I've known.

I don't think there's a containment system that could keep Tatya or Kate Moss confined. Kate can open her crate unless I double lock it with extra clips. Tatya would dig, climb, jump, or otherwise escape through anything given time. She's comfortable in her crate and goes into it voluntarily when I'm home. So I don't think it's cruel at all.

I know many more dogs who are kept outside 24/7 in large pens. They never get to have time with their owners except when they are thrown some food and water. They never get to exercise, they never get mental stimulation. I think that is more cruel than a house dog. Max, the Lab, is with labmomma's dogs- the sofa is the best seat in the house.

    Bookmark   October 22, 2006 at 9:22PM
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The Greyhound people told you that they couldn't stay outside because of the physical structure of the dog. Even with good shelter these dogs have no body fat making them extremely sensitive to heat and cold.


1 Like    Bookmark   October 22, 2006 at 9:49PM
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hi rthummer, no i did not think that of you at all. Like you, I have watched who posts what and you can tell when someone loves their pets and cares well for them.

I think if the litter works for you that's great. The way to have a pet with any kind of adversity, job, disability, etc. is to figure out a way to make it work. I think the crate, for me, that is, works very well in not only potty training, but containing my dogs when they were pups so they were safe until they learned what should not be eaten while the parents are away.

The thing is, now that I am older and have built my career, I am at a point where I can work from my home office a three days a week so it isn't even an issue for us, but it makes me crazy when people suggest what OP suggests. I have been in that place where my husband and I worked long hours to build our careers. Now I have a little more breathing room, but I just can't help my knee jerk reaction to those who think you can't have a dog if you're not home all day with it.

There are many situations where both incomes are necessary, not a luxury. BTW, even tho I work from home and am able to play now and then during the day, my dogs are lazy, laid back labs who would take sitting in the arm chair behind my desk to exercising (not unlike mom)! I do take them out a couple times a day to throw the frisbee (2 younger ones) and after the 4th or 5th throw, my middle child grabs the frisbee, goes to the far end of the yard (very large) and lays down with it. He's done, game over, can we go in now and get a treat please??? LOL

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 7:08AM
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We are in a routine that every day we go for a morning walk, then I take a shower and get dressed. By the time I get out of the shower, the dogs are already in their crates, waggin' their tails, waiting for me to shut the door. I don't have to tell them "kennel up", they already know when to do so.

When the dogs are in their crates, they are not chewing on wires or eating potentially dangerous items, they are not running to the doors and windows barking at passers by, they are not opening up my cabinet doors throwing cake mix all over the house (which has happened in our house, by the way), they are not unsupervised in the fenced in back yard digging holes under the fence or jumping over it.... when the dogs are in their crates they are safe and we are all happy.

That is what is up with that...

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 10:34AM
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Dogs will view the crate as their "room" when properly trained to it. Only my oldest dog stays in the house all day and only if the weather is bad. No crate, but she can be easily confined if needed. She has great house manners unless she is sick.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 4:07PM
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I believe most dogs like cats sleep a great deal of the day. They are well fed and exercised by their owners so when alone and bored they just sleep. Even wild animals sleep when they aren't driven by hunger to hunt. Most owners leave toys to entertain the dog when it wants to play. Leaving a dog outside is very often dangerous. A dog that never digs will suddenly find a way under the fence or over it. A meter reader will leave the gate unlached. Many claim their dogs don't mind crates. Mine do, but they do not mind the familiar comforts of their home/den. I believe they are quite happy inside. If I didn't believe it, I would rethink dog ownership.

I totally agree with the greyhound rescue organizations. Most fences are no barrier to a greyhound if it sees prey to chase. They shouldn't be outside alone.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 4:50PM
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Many areas do not have suitable weather for dogs. My two would freeze during the winter and if I were in a hot area I am sure they would suffer heat stroke.

Also, neighbors do not appreciate dogs that are left outside all the time. Just this summer our small town had a terrier hung, during the day and a lab was killed with a baseball bat or stick, during the night. I assume that these dogs were left out 24/7 and the neighbors (or someone near by) grew tired of the barking. Whereever you live there are always crazy people or kids!!!

My dogs are inside where it is safe for them!

Also, if my dogs have accidents, which is very rare, I do not get mad at them. They know they had an accident and feel bad. They are good boys and everyone has accidents. Most of the time they only have accidents if they are sick. One boy is also crate trained and his crate door is always open. He will often nap in there or take his toy in there. it is someplace he feel comfortable. We keep it around because he seems to like it.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 4:52PM
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My youngest dog 3 yrs old still uses his crate. When he sees the cotton balls and ear cleaner he runs for the crate. When he wants to be cozy to sleep and I have not remembered to put the cushions on the sofa up, he goes into his crate. My only problem with the crate will be when the next puppy comes, I will have to find a place to put another crate because I don't want to take away his special place of comfort.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 5:40PM
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Like joepyeweed, all my dogs are crated when I'm not home.
The safest place for a dog when you are not available to supervise is a crate. Dogs jump out of windows. Dogs eat things that aren't safe. Dogs have accidents. They're dogs and I would no sooner leave my dog loose and unsupervised than I would leave a toddler alone and unsupervised. In addition, it's helpful to already have a crate-trained dog when the dog faces surgery and will be confined at the vet. In the event of a fire or other emergency, my dogs can be quickly and safely removed by emergency personnel.

Rescues really do try to have a dog's best interests in mind when establishing adoption criteria. Weather is hard to predict. Kids tease dogs outside. Sickos poison dogs or steal dogs outside. Meter readers and postal workers are terrorized by dogs outside. Neighbors are annoyed by barking dogs outside. Bored dogs become escape artists when left outside.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 5:41PM
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To answer original question:

  • Purpose of crating dogs in house is to ensure safety of the pet and property. Google: Labrador retriever dies in fire after accidently starting fire with toaster.

  • Also to teach dog when is time to chill out.

  • Also to teach dog to hold it. Just like humans

  • The dog doesn't view a cage as a cage. They don't know what a cage is nor do they know about circus freaks being housed in cages. They see it as a little room.

  • Common dog breeds are social animals and one could argue they are healthier if kept around people as opposed to the kennel in the yard.

  • Not everyone has the means of installing a climate controlled kennel

  • What is the difference between a small cage and a big cage? In an extreme animal rights point of view it still restricts freedom to the animal to go out to bars, vote, get drivers licenses and attend college.

  • Dogs can hold it longer than humans as they aren't drinking/eating as much in the course of a day as humans consume in one sitting..

I'm done.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 5:46PM
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Thanks labmomma for clarifying. I thank God for my dogs, and I believe most people on these two posts, feel the same way, or they wouldn't even care about a dog forum. I guess we are all here to learn better ways of taking care of our babies. I don't claim to know all the answers, but I do the best I can, and when I worked my Doxie was left in the house by himself and my aussie was left in a reconstructed house kennel, and before that stayed in the house. In fact, I have left many a dog at home to go to work, and I don't think I am a mean person. I think what I provide for my babes is pretty good, at least to my standards. I believe IMHO, if an idea is put forth to suggest we should not have a dog if we work and cannot let it out to go to bathroom while at work then give a reasonable altenative. A1ot f pet owners leave their dog in the house while they are earning a living. think it is better than living on the streets or the pound.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 5:49PM
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It was because I didn't crate my dog that I had to get rid of her. She was a black lab/Border collie mutt dog. Gen was born outside...lived her first 6 weeks outside. so, she got bored easily in the house. She learned to potty outside real quick because she had been used to going outside already. But, when we weren't home she terrorize things. We had to put her outside, but her being outside didn't work either. She ate my brother's shoes, ripped down a third of my mom's 20 foot maple tree, ate through an outdoor table umbrella, and countless other things. My dad did not believe in putting her on a chain and limiting her free space outside. he said it was cruel, but the dog was a beast. Sweet, but a beast. If we had a crate, it could have solved all our problems. she would have been forced to relax all day and then could get her energy out on walks when I got home. She also needed a crate because she got bored in the middle of the night and would pace and pace. I wish I still had Gen. she was the first dog that was ever all mine. (Just my parents made the rules since I am still at they had their way and she went to the SPCA)

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 8:05PM
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I'm sorry you had to give up your dog, Africanviolet :-( Unfortunatly it happens a lot when people think crating is cruel. Crate training is the kindest thing you can do for a dog. I get so irritated when people complain about their new dog chewing, going potty etc. but refuse to use a crate. I know it will only be a matter of time before the dog is tied up outside or worse.
Glad to see others here who are true believers in crates.:-)

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 11:12PM
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My dog would be extremely uncomfortable outside in a kennel unless that comfortable house was air conditioned. If he had been raised outside he probably would be acclimated to the extremes of summer and winter time highs and lows. But, he ain't.

Besides, he would miss Planet's Funniest Animals. :)

Africanviolet.. do you crate your dog/s now or was your lose of Gen a recent event? I think if I were to ever get another puppy it would be the way I would go. I used to not like the idea but having now known lots of people that swear by them, and the assurance their dogs are comfortable, I think my beliefs have changed. Next time around I may not be as lucky in the behavior department.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 11:27PM
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My dogs are older now and I no longer crate them. For the last few years the doors were left open anyway. Now we've moved to a smaller house so I don't want the crates taking up space. I don't think they miss them, but that might be because everything is new to them and they haven't figured out what's missing.:-) Josh found a space behind the recliner he likes and Cleo just lays wherever.
When I used to foster, it was mandatory that I crate train. And anyone adopting was very much encouraged to buy a crate if they didn't already have one.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 1:47AM
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moonie and beeanne,

It was a recent event (well, in mid-May) I had Genesis from the day she turned 6 weeks until she was about 6 months old. That's a long time to have a dog then suddenly wake up one morning and to be told she had to go to the SPCA. My dad is really weird about the way people treat dogs. He sees crates and chains/cords as very cruel. But I see it is if the dog can't behave and you want it bad can deal with these things until you come home to entertain it with things it's allowed to play or terrorize.

Our JRT has never been crated either, but she also came home the first day and crawled straight under the covers and slept beside my mom. She was put behind a baby gate while she was really small or put in the bathroom when we weren't home. Gen would have eaten the bathroom door. she stayed behind a baby gate fine, but when she was little she learned she ways to escape (until we moved hte trash can she was squeezing by) My mom didn't like cleaning up dog pee when she got home from work. So, that was why they were being left outside all day. i'd have cleaned it up, but she got home before me. I can't get another dog until I move out. I'm 18 and in college now, but it may still be a good 2 years before I get on my own and settled a little. I really wish I could have a dog again and start over where I messed up with Gen, but I know it will all be back to the: "Your dog did this. Pogo is a better dog. I can't stand your dog. We are training the dog our way."

It was really heartbreaking because it was just a few days before my graduation when Gen pulled the last thread. She had been bored and pacing in the morning and my dad saw this as annoying. He kept letting her outside then she'd do the whole kitty routine and ask in and out continuously. It was a bit drizzly and so my dad got mad and finally didn't let her back inside. i was still in bed trying to sleep because she had been up all night. And, Gen got irritated by being ignored and she went up to the Maple and chewed a piece of bark off the base and started pulling...the bark ripped all the way up the side of the tree. She did thi several times and my dad had to chop the piece off for fear of disease to the tree. Then, he yelled at me for not watching my dog and said he wasn't going to deal with it anymore and I got dressed and he made me go to the pound with him where I last saw Genesis. :(

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 8:53AM
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I had a similar opinion of crates the first time I was introduced to them, I was looking into adopting a 4 year old Shelty cross and was told that she was crate trained and that I would have to continue crating her. I conducted some research reading and speaking with people on the topic and I ended up adopting Bear Dog. She lived to 8 when she died of cancer.

She definately viewed her crate as her den, anytime she felt insecure she would run to her crate and rest for a little while. I began traveling with her in the car, uncrated, and she would go nuts barking at everything outside the car and I quickly came to realize she was taking a defensive posture out of fear. I put the crate in the back of the car and she never made another peep.

If I gave her a treat she would go eat it in her crate.

After her passing I adopted a 3 month old yellow lab cross and crate trained him from day one. He is 7 now and has had 3 or 4 accidents in the house and the first 2 were my fault because I reacted too slowly when the tail went up and nose went down; he was looking for a place to go.

Denali loved his crate, had no problem getting into when I said crate and he would often go there to nap.

At about 1.5 years old something happened one day while I was at work, I came home and he was very distraught, and he would never step foot in the crate again, I tried everything, and when I found that I would have to phsyically put him in the crate I let it go. I left the crate setup for a few months but there was just no way he was going back in. So I put the crate in the basement and thats that.

He has a dog bed in my sons room, stays out of everything in the house, and has only had two messes in 5.5 years both times he was sick.

At some point in the future I imagine we will have cause for a new dog and I will likely crate it.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 9:41AM
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When I had just one dog, after he was a few years old, I had got rid of his crate. He was fully potty trained, mellowed out and I didn't think he needed the crate anymore. So we folded up and it put it in the garage.

When we rescued a yellow lab a few years later, I thought I better start her out in the crate because she had never been in a house before. So I got out the old crate and then realized that I was going to have to get another crate. Because our first dog immediately went into the crate and would not come out - claming it as his... so now I keep the crates around - the dogs still use them, even though the doors are rarely closed for the older dogs.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 10:38AM
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Africanviolet, Your story really touched me. I had a similar experience with my first dog, Missy, a border collie, when I was 14. I'm 50 now, but I still think of her from time to time. It was painful to finally have a dog that was "just mine" only to have her taken way because she kept "doing bad things."
You hang in there. There will be plenty of time for you to have dogs in your life. Right now, worry about getting a good education so you'll be able to afford them when the time is right. :-)

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 11:01AM
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Thanks for the kind words. I'm guessing your dog was a lot like Gen. They even had some of the same breed in them. I plan on (once I am done with education, yes) going to the SPCA when I adopt or the pound. I want to get a young dog, but I think I am going to walk in and just look at them all. And, I will make a wise choice when I make one. I am going to interact with all the ones I am interested in before I make an option. Gen happened to be a very independant dog. I think that was one of her issues. A good dog is a dog that will come right up to you from the beginning wanting to be a loyal best friend.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 2:42PM
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The best thing I ever did for my dog and myself was to crate train my malamute as a puppy. I tried in the beginning to be back to the house every 4-5 hours, and he did great. I think keeping the animal out of trouble so he can't get hurt and can't break my heart by eating the sofa is a way to show the love. Later, he was able to wait up to 10 hours - the same as if I went to bed early and he waited until I awoke to let him out.

After a year or so, after any chewing episodes, we left him out. That dog has never dug, chewed, eaten garbage - he is just so well behaved. I still keep the crate for when I have to transport him in the pickup, and he gladly goes there. I read all I could find to be sure he understood that was his "area", not the naughty room. He doesn't mind it at all, although he uses it very little now at 9 years.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 2:50PM
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Leaving a dog outside during the day in my neck of the woods would euphemistically be called "Feeding the coyotes", especially if you had fake little mop dogs like mine that would hardly make a garnish for canis latrans.

Add to that- they're indoor dogs. They get more than enough exercise chasing eachother. Papers in the corner serve Chloe well if she needs to go during the day, Shamus holds it.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 3:13PM
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I don't have a dog but an old neighbor of ours used to leave their dog outside while they were not home -- the dog barked all the time which was totally unfair to the neighbors and the dog. You are responsible for your dog weather you are home or not -- better keep the animal inside where they won't be injured or injure someone else.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 5:42PM
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I have a greyhound and a hunting dog. Both are indoor dogs. If each were given their preference, the hunting dog would want to stay out all day while we're gone. The greyhound would not. She is absolutely not equipped for temperature extremes. Same thing with the whippet I had before her. No (real) fur, no fat, no insulation. In fact, their fur and skin are so thin that I had to put sunscreen on my whippet when I lived in Phoenix.

Seriously, these rescue people aren't messing with you. Greyhounds are simply not outdoor dogs. This is not an unreasonable requirement. This is a basic need articulated by people who know the breed well.

Even when I home-officed, my greyhound was very content to go 6-8 hours without even thinking about going outside. She, like most, is a couch potato.

I crate the hunting dog when I go to work. She's cool with it and goes (without my asking) when I grab for my purse. The greyhound has the run of the house, but spends most of her time in her kennel with the door open.

I think many people mistakenly believe that an outdoor dog is, by definition, an exercised dog. Not so.

You sound slightly defensive. As if the rescue folks told you something you didn't like, so instead of doing more research on the breed, you got defensive and judged them. I'd gently encourage you to keep an open mind. Do some more research. Talk to some greyhound owners who are not affiliated with the rescue organization. Ask them about their dogs. If you do this enough, it will become clear to you why an indoor crate for 8 hrs a day is vastly preferable to an outdoor run for a greyhound.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 11:13PM
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My 2 dogs stay inside all day also. The oldest one (6 yrs) has the run of the house and the baby is still being confined to a small entry hallway. We will be on vacation for 3 weeks over Christmas and will work with the younger dog then so, hopefully, in the new year she will be able to spend her days on the couch with the older dog. :) I'm convined the older dog spends her days sleeping.... often when we get home she meets us at the door yawning and stretching. We ensure they are well exercised in the evening, and they're out for at least 1/2 an hour every morning.

If I ever have any doubts as to how long the older one can hold her bladder.... she'll prove it when it rains, lol. she hates the rain and I'm sure she would hold it for two days unless we insisted she went out.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 9:17AM
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My 4 dogs are inside all day - wouldn't have it any other way. They are all loose, no need to be crated. However we do have a 4 month old foster pup who is crated whenever we have to leave.

I don't understand why the OP would think that leaving dogs inside is an "unacceptable" thing to do.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 10:12AM
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My two dogs get EXTREMELY ticked at me if I try to leave them outside for any length of time.

They want to be inside.

I'm fortunate in that I work only about 2 miles from my house.

I can't remember the last time that I had a mess in the house to clean up that wasn't related to one of them being ill.

I did, however, wake up at 3:15 this morning to the sound of Nikky barfing.

In my bed...

    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 10:34AM
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That is why I crate at night. Easier to clean barf out of the pan in the crate when I wake up than have to wash the sheets at 3am.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 11:14AM
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I wouldn't even consider crating at nite. They sleep with hubby and me. It's their bed toooooooooooo... Put a cover over mattress to help protect it. Barfing in the bed happens, what maybe one time a year? I am not crating for a yearly barf!!!

    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 9:50PM
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Once a year... In My Drrrreeaaamms.
Besides not trying to encourage using people furniture.

Just wondering.... how do all the married folk.... you know... with a dog in the same bed? Oh never mind, you're married... there is no you know anymore.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 10:00PM
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    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 10:23PM
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Moonie, Please stop laughing. It's so not funny. :-)

    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 10:31PM
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beeane... It is soooo very funny. And I can handle at least a few times a year. Barfing, I mean. :)

All joking aside.. please, no barfing in my bed. Down, boy, down!

    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 10:53PM
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LOL All joking aside? Yea...right :-) You're too funny.
And Quirky, in all honesty,I almost spewed my keyboard when I read your post.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2006 at 11:46PM
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    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 5:58AM
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The potentially offensive question was posed "how do all the married folk"...

and I doubt he meant to target anyone out specifically... there have been many discussions on the fourm where many people have said that their pets sleep with them. I think we had an entire thread about that once.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 9:21AM
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My dog is in bed with me every night unless she acts out of line and wants to bug me with her crying. Then, I just open my door and let her free roam the house. she usually ends up in my mom and dad's room and sleeps with them. She's fine without being in a crate. My previous dog needed one at night though. she was clearly nocturnal and we enver got any sleep because she cried and whined and chewed things up in the middle of the night.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 9:33AM
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A little humor's a good thing.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 12:27PM
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In all seriousness,I don't think anyone was being RUDE. I agree with Joepyeweed, I didn't think you were targeted. I thought I was. :-)My husband is tired lately from working over time, so the remark about married people hit home.
It's funny how some people with certain personality quirks (myself included) thinks everything is about them?
We just need to realize that 99% of the time, things are not about us.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 1:09PM
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Um, where's the fire? Whoah.

Aaaaaanyway - I'm the queen of hearing the beginning of barfing and throwing the dog off the bed or into the bathroom or whatever. But my dog gives warning - kind of like a cat - "Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh, bleaaaackkk."

Actually the doxie is not allowed to sleep with us anymore because 1) he kept lying sideways and pushing DH and I off to the sides with his little legs, and 2) he started getting up at 3-4 AM to groom himself - "slurp, slurp, slurp, slurp, etc."

My dog is the luckiest dang dog in town - he goes to work with me. When he has to stay home he can be uncrated. We used to keep him in one room with the door closed because he would go to the nearest window and cry and bark at passer's by and neighbors thought he was in trouble. "What happened?" "Is he okay?". Drama queen!

But now he's more mature, he can have the run of the house when we're out. He ends up sleeping the whole time and doesn't bother with the window pleas for help anymore, LOL.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 1:19PM
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No offense meant to you rthummer. Or any married folks.

â¥â¥â¥Will you accept my apology?â¥â¥â¥

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 1:23PM
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tapla (mid-MI z5b-6a)

Hmmm. As I scanned upthread I noticed no mention that the propensity to "den" is manifest in most canines. Protracted stays in den sites, constricted and elementally less comfortable than a warm dry cage, are the norm rather than exception, and by canine choice rather than any semblance of conscription. I have two dogs I dote on probably more than I should, and even if I set the incentive of convenience aside when commanding "kennel up", I still have reason rather than emotion as the basis of being able to hold the practice as beyond self-reproach.


    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 5:43PM
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Wow. Someone has no sense of humor.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 7:02PM
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Ya think? :-)

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 7:13PM
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quirky.... awwwww, the hearts made that an extra sweet apology.

beeane.. I was kinda targeting you so hope you didn't take offense because I did censor myself when I was gonna -really- poke fun. It doesn't seem as if you did and I was thinking your sense of humor runs parallel to mine. *whimpers* I think.

rthummer... I've been married 30 years myself. Nobody was trying to have fun at your expense. Hopefully your post didn't mean you were so offended you wouldn't be coming back. I haven't been coming to GW for very long and would hate to think that I was a part of something that would keep you away. Posters names are becoming familiar to me and a few of them I can remember what kind of pets they have but I don't know anyone personally or communicated with them away from these forums. Still, I wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings for anything in the world... whether I know you or not. I'm really sorry my joking around was offensive to you.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 9:52PM
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beeanne did hit below the belt.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 10:30PM
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"below the belt" *not sure whether to snicker or hang head in shame*

okay, dang it! I'm snickering! *lol*

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 10:37PM
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OK Moonie, you can snicker if you must. :-)
I do think we got wayyyyyyyy off topic.
What was the topic? Oh yea, Gurley thought it was wrong to keep your dog in the house while you work etc.
Well IT IS NOT WRONG, IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO and most seem to agree. Hey the OP never even returned. Oh well, she started an interesting, informative, and humorous thread.
There, I'm back on topic now. I'm new here and not sure how strict they are about staying on topic.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 11:21PM
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I am just a wierdo stranger on the internet. Nothing more to anyone here than a series of 1's and zero's. Don't let what I'm typing spoil your day. It's an internet forum not an operating room, no need to take everthing so seriously. Then again maybe I took someone else's reply too seriously. Oh well. In the future if anyone wants to give me some of their mind please feel free to cuss me out in an email by clicking on my page. I promise I won't hold it against you.

Point I was making is that if my spouse wanted to have dog(s) sleep in the same bed, I would not be cool with that. Don't get me wrong, we have the ocassional slumber party but it wouldn't work on a daily basis.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2006 at 10:38AM
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I've been follwing this post and am ready to put in my 2 cents. I have a dog who stays in most of the day and sometimes all day alone. It can't be helped. He's not neglected at all. He sleeps most of the day on the back pillow of the couch. Most days hubby comes home to let him out but sometimes it's not possible. Cody does make an occasional oops but always in the same place. On the throw rug in front of the frig. Not hard to clean it up.
As for the bed, Cody has slept with us since after the first week we had him. He was very easy to housebreak. During personal moments Cody waits in the hall. No need to scoot him off the bed, he just knows. Hope that didn't offend anyone.
He was only been crated the first week we had him. He was 6 months old and kept in a cage with 2 other pups at the kennel. He didn't even know what grass felt like. He couldn't go down or up steps and had no social skills. He was a puppy mill rescue. He wasn't my idea of the Maltese dream dog I always wanted. But I fell in love with him from the first time I held him.
Sorry this is so long.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2006 at 12:30PM
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Welcome dirthappy! Your post wasn't long. No need to apologize.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2006 at 4:01PM
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thanks beeanne. hard to type with a 15 lb maltese relaxing on my lap and arm

    Bookmark   October 28, 2006 at 5:04PM
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That baby needs a diet! LOL or did you mean a 1.5 lb maltese?
This minute, my only problem is Josh 65lbs just dripped on the floor after getting a drink of water. No problem, it's only water and it can evaporate on it's on.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2006 at 11:17PM
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Our dogs have full run of the house all day, except for their grandpa's room. His room is dog-free, but he is out of his room often and lets the boys out and in several times a day.

To the OP (where ever you are), when the day comes that he can't, a dogsitter will come once a day to let them out for a break.

As for QQ's question, in my experience, the dogs are disgusted by such behavior and retreat to their own beds. Megan used to leave the room in a huff.

They understand "Scoot, scoot" whenever told and will get off my lap, down from the furniture, off the bed, out of the car - whatever.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2006 at 1:38AM
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Gurley, back up a second. I have 4 dogs. None of them want to stay outside when it is hot, cold or otherwise. They are "house dogs." You have heard of that term haven't you? They sleep while I'm gone as they would do if they were outside. I have 2 small dogs and 2 large. All enjoy the comforts of being house dogs. That's what they are. They never make messes in my house, ever. That's called "being housebroken." They are left with the TV on Animal Planet, of course, have food water, toys and chews available.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2006 at 10:08PM
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I am a dog trainer, and say if predators are not an issue put in a dog door. The dog can come and go as needed, wont chew things up usually either when given this option because they are not so bored. However as an alternative I see nothing wrong with crating a dog. I too hate when people complain about a dog messing in the house but think crate training is cruel, they are poorly informed. Dogs are den animals and feel safe in their crates, you should provide a water bottle and chew toys to keep them entertained. My dogs hang out in their open crates all of the time, the prefer them to just laying on the floor or their dog beds! I don't work so I only kennel them when I need them to be quiet, they immediatley stop barking in the kennels because I trained them to. My one dog even runs to her kennel when she starts to bark!

    Bookmark   November 6, 2006 at 11:21PM
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For those with puppies who are not house trained yet, please don't put food and water in the crate while the puppy is crated. It only will cause the pup to have to go. I wouldn't put food or water in the crate until the dog is totally housetrained and can be trusted not to do its business in the house.

That said, I have my youngest dog who just loves, loves his crate second only to lying across my feet at night. He goes in when he sees one of the others getting their ears cleaned. He sees it as "his" place. I think I didn't put it away soon enough as he is now 3 and I don't want to take it away from him.

Not a problem now, but will at some point be getting a new puppy and then will have 2 crates going, won't that be fun??? At least only one will contain a pet that is not housebroken for a short period of time (I pray).

    Bookmark   November 7, 2006 at 8:06AM
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Labmomma says....That said, I have my youngest dog who just loves, loves his crate second only to lying across my feet at night. He goes in when he sees one of the others getting their ears cleaned. He sees it as "his" place. I think I didn't put it away soon enough as he is now 3 and I don't want to take it away from him.******************************************************************* *************************************************
I've seen this happen many times.Isn't it funny that so many people think crating is "CRUEL" and we think taking the crate away is what is cruel. So we just go on with those extra pieces of "funiture" in our homes. They do make ok end tables and cup holders, if you aren't into fancy stuff.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2006 at 10:35AM
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beeanne, totally agree.

Fortunately, I have a spot in my office that is just right for my middle guy's crate.

The new addition whenever it comes will need a crate somewhere closer to the back door for training purposes. That one will be challenge.... I think we could think of a million things to use our crates for. I've seen my daughter lay out a school project on the top of the crate to organize it LOL:).

    Bookmark   November 7, 2006 at 11:36AM
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Crating or leaving a dog inside all day is NOT cruel. Glad to read so many posts from informed dog owners.

Locking them outside where they yip and bark at the door all day IS cruel....I work from home and see and hear the neighbor's dogs misery on a daily basis.

I recently was visiting a friend and her dogs stay in her apartment while she works. She does a nice long walk before work and immediately after. I had ample opportunity to observe that they did, indeed, sleep most of the day while she was gone. I took them out one day, mid-day but neither of them had to relieve themselves.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2006 at 1:55PM
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My dogs are all adults who were confined to a large divided crate until they were able to hold it all day. My dogs stay in all day (8-9 hrs) but they go outside for an hour in the morning & when we come home and always go to the park every evening, rain or shine. They never go potty in the house unless they are sick. It is too dangerous to leave ours outside because the Golden has sound issues and will break down a secure fence with his massive weight alone if he hears something that scares him like a boom, backfire, thunder, whistles, fog horns,! He breaks it down and leaves and never comes back. Our Shibas are smart enough to stick around or come back but could get killed too. Too risky and I refuse to kennel them outside when I have a nice home and attached solarium for them to hang out in all day. I have web camera's with audio and all they do all day after tiring of kongs & bones is sleep. Sleep on the beds, or the couches. Occasionally they bark at the mailman, stranger or delivery guy and then back to sleep.


    Bookmark   November 9, 2006 at 6:56PM
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Have a house fire while your dog is stuck in it's crate. The results....not pretty.

    Bookmark   November 13, 2006 at 1:53AM
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ahughes798: Somehow, I don't think house fire statistics and crate use have been studied - if you have some reliable data, please post same.

Your solution to potty training a puppy without using a crate? Please do share...

    Bookmark   November 13, 2006 at 7:17AM
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If it was studied, I doubt there would be much difference between crated dogs and dogs loose in the house to survive a fire. However if a study was done on crated dogs remaining in the same home for a lifetime,as opposed to those who were never crate trained, I'll bet the percentage will be way up there for the crate trained dog.

    Bookmark   November 13, 2006 at 8:03AM
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House fires aren't pretty, period. Chances of any pet surviving without the intervention of the homeowner of fire fighters is slim to none.
That said.....
I actually had a house fire 8 years ago. No one was home at the time. All 3 of my dogs were crated. All 3 were saved. The firemen told me repeatedly how many more animals would be saved if they were confined - just grab the crates and drag them out. No hunting for the animals. No trying to restrain a panicked animal. Their turn out gear is pretty effective at preventing a bite, but a very large, very frightened dog can easily knock down a man. No worries about the dogs running away or just plain getting in the way once they were outside. i also had 3 cats who were loose in the house at the time of the fire. 1 ran out of the burning building. 1 was captured by fire fighters and taken outside. He then escaped. Luckily, he returned home after 4 days. He oucld have easily been killed by wild life or hit by a car during that time. The 3rd cat died in the fire - I assume of smoke inhalation since he was found under a bed on the second floor. I am grateful that fire fighters took the time to try and find my cats, but i don't expect them to stay in a burning building for any amount of time to try and find my pets. I don't expect them to find leashes, carriers, etc. I don't expect them to find suitable containment for my animals once outside. I don't expect them to deal with very frightened animals who don't like strangers on a good day (I own LGD's) In this instance, crates saved my dogs and the fire fighters were able to do their job more effectively.

    Bookmark   November 13, 2006 at 7:21PM
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The number of dogs who would be without homes if no one who worked full time could have them would be insane. I have three greyhounds. They're home alone 8-9 hours often during the week. When I'm home instead (during the work week), they don't ask to go outside, they sleep mostly as they've adapted that schedule. :) Greyhounds are particularly lazy dogs and don't seem to have a problem with my full time work schedule. Additionally, greyhounds are particularly sensitive to hot & cold weather conditions due to their thin skin and lack of body fat. They are not meant to be outdoor dogs.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2006 at 1:28PM
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This is an old thread, but I wanted to weigh in on this-I was one of those people who thought crate training was cruel & unusual. My sister & I got our dogs at about the same time-my golden mix was never crate-trained, her JRT was-I was able to be home w/ my dog, she worked full time. I think the biggest impact is when they are young-my dog chewed things (once it was a bag of kitty litter, a bag of charcoal, & a bag of garbage-that was the worst). Both of our dogs lived out a full life-Kashmir (my golden died at 13, bladder cancer-he was a great dog!) & Dexter (her JRT, died at 16).
This summer, some wretched person dropped off a black lab at my sister's house, who turned out to be pregnant. Baby had a litter of 4 pups, & I think it was predestined that I would take 2 of the puppies (Kashmir had passed away almost 2 years ago), I didn't think I wanted another dog, but my sister certainly didn't need all of them-she kept Baby (the mother) & 2 puppies, while we drove down to NC & picked up Taz & Bella at 10 weeks.
I borrowed a crate from a neighbor & purchased another-that's where they sleep, from about 9 to 6 am. They're huge & still confined to the back of the house (although yesterday they learned they could jump over the baby gates.) I'm home with them, but after a flurry of activity in the morning, they like to sleep on the couch. I couldn't survive w/out crates, they still have to be supervised whenever they're out, they're 4.5 months old. I now realize how valuable crate training is...

    Bookmark   November 13, 2010 at 4:59PM
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I no longer worked outside the home on a regular basis when we got our lab, who is now 9 years old. We crate trained her because labs are power chewers and if I wanted my furniture and other belongings to remain intact, I knew I better learn to love the idea of crate training. It was a cinch to crate train her - whenever I left the house - to shop, to do yard work, to sit outside at a time it was too hot for her to be outside for too long a period of time, she knew that it was time to get "into your bed" and did so without qualm.

It was her piece of safety I do believe, it was her comfort zone also once she got used to the idea. It was not an area of punishment -ever. It was a place to be safe when alone, plain and simple. Once bed wetting was obviously not an issue (within a week we knew it was not) we bought a fat, comfortable dog bed and stuffed it into the crate - and that was it - she was in doggy bed heaven and has remained of that frame of mind ever since.

After she turned three years of age, I started to leave the door open and she would just go in on her own. It was her bed to use when she chose, we only closed the crate door when we would be gone from the house and the property for a longer period of time.

She gets a new bed stuffed into her crate about twice a year, she is older now and she likes them to remain fluffy for her joints. We removed the crate door from her crate years and years ago, when the power chewing stopped and she was obviously fine being left alone in the house for any reason or any length of time.

Her crate is and always has been the great big durable, hard plastic travel crates made for large dogs, that is what we liked and what worked for us and for her. Her crate was first kept in the living room so that she could be in the crate but also be in the center of the life of the house, aware and able to see what was going on if she was put in there for other reasons when we were at home - which she was. During dinner or dinner prep - when we had company we always crated her - when I was cleaning the house and didn't want her underfoot until my chores were complete- all this during her puppyhood through her young adulthood.

Now it resides in the bedroom and this is where she will go when she wants to sleep which is the majority of time. She took to that crate and the training from the start.

Often what might seem cruel or unloving is very loving and protective.

The crate is in the house, climate controlled and comfortable. The dog never tore up anything. She never ate anything questionable. We weren't upset with her because she didn't tear stuff up, so she wasn't upset because we were upset with her. None of that stuff was ever an issue.

She felt safe. When we got home the door was oopened for her to come out and the door was left open so that if she felt like it she could go back in. Within a month of bringing home the crate, it was her preferred place to nap...

    Bookmark   December 14, 2010 at 1:33AM
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Here is something none of you will like to hear...I am in college and live off campus and my roommate has a chihuahua/miniture schnauzer. This dog has not seen the light of day except a few times last semester. This dog is cooped up inside, upstairs all day...24/7! This dog is pee pad trained...but not geriatric or a puppy, not sure the exact age but around middle-aged. Not only does this dog only get to use the pee pad as a way of going to the bathroom but the owner will wait until the pee pad is full until it is changed (the excuse of pee pads are too expensive. The smell of urine last semester was atrocious; this semester it is faintly covered by a plug-in scent. Tell me this is not ridiculous and upsetting. How can someone do this to their dog?! I wanted to see if I was just crazy or not since I've never owned a dog but all the professionals such as the animal control officer, and a dog organization were fired up with anger. First off why does someone in college have a dog in the first place. We are not settled down yet; why should we drag a pet every place we go. The worst possible scenario happened and this roommate of mine somehow turned the landlord against me. Threatening my place of habitance on lies from this manipulative person. I would have lost the place I am living if I allowed the ACO to come here like she wanted to. I was crushed, stressed, and felt bombarded. This person was my only close freind as well. I know never move in with your freind. To continue on with the story...I was sat down to and talked TO by my landlord and roommate and was told that I had to pay for the electric heater I was using if it got over a certain amount. I was using this heater because one my room is colder in the first place and two because the dog would come and urinate and release feces in my room and also the smell from urine on the pee pad in the bathroom a foot from my door was filling my room... so in turn I shut my door and froze (everything is included in the rent btw). So now I either pay or buy a dog gate...ya know since I have to change everything to cater to the conniving person and the dog. My main confusion here is what is wrong with people? Can anyone tell me that? Animals are so innocent...and dogs literally praise their owners, but for what? What do they get back? Well we all know what they get with the awesome perfect dog owners, but what does this dog in the story get? Food, water, shelter? Could humans mentally live on just that? Research has shown that we need socialization, love, comfort...possitiveness! If anyone has any advice, comments, questions please leave your follow-up. Looking forward to hearing from people. Thanks

    Bookmark   January 24, 2012 at 9:12PM
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I have sympathy for you but don't have much of a answer.
I also agree with you with your thoughts on this.
Unfortunately there are too many dog owner's like this and some people just don't get it. Your roommate or landlord should provide with a gate if you can't heat the room by itself.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2012 at 12:16AM
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