Yorkies vs. Silkies and Breeders vs. Rescue

bug_girlOctober 24, 2006

Years ago, I lived out my dream of owning a Yorkie, but she was a disappointment to me. She lived for 11 years, and then she got cancer. As a puppy she seems ok, but has she got older problems began to develop. She did not like to be pick up, and refused to sit on laps. She refused to go for walks, and in spite of my trying to introduce her to walks, car rides, the beach, the park, she refused to do any of these things so I gave up. Then she refused to go into the backyard, there were some stairs she did not like or could not go up and down very well. She was too small, and she had so many health problems.

Finally, my vet told me she was overbreed. He said, they are trying to make Yorkie too small, and this leads to all kind of health problems. She had chronic yeast all over her body, chronic dry eye, and could not walk very well in her later years. She was trained to go on pads, and she was loving over all, I just feel that she could have been so much more, if she had lived to leave the house.

Now, I am considering a Silky because I think they are hardier, and then Yorkies however, I am still worried about the same problems. I noticed some Silky breeders on the web calling their dogs "tiny" and I find this very troubling. Could it be were are breeding a nation of sickly dogs under the name of having "smaller" dogs? I would rather have a larger, and healthy dog from 10 to 20 pounds then under 10 pounds. My Yorkie was 6 pounds full grown. I would never go under 10 pounds again.

I am thinking about either adopting a dog or getting a puppy. We also adopted two adult rescue dogs, and they did have psychological problems due to past abuse, that were really difficult. Our most successful dog was a Chow mix, but he was very destructive especially in his old age, he became very insecure. In fact, I had to stop working and stay home to monitor his behavior. He would destroy things when left alone. My dashhound mix began to bite people, and refused to be touched very often.

It is hard not be discouraged, but I do love dogs and I dont have one now, and we have a nice back yard with lawn. I would really like to get maybe a Silky or Poodle or some kind of mixed breed.

I would not buy a dog on the internet and have it shipped to me. This seems to be a cruel for the dog, and if they dog does not work out, do people really just ship them back?

My question is are Silkies healthier then Yorkies because of thier mixed genes, or have they also been breed to be smaller, and therefore likely to be unheathly? I would like to find a breeder who is not breeding Silkies or poodles for smallness, but rather for healthy and personality.

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Your idea about finding a breeder breeding for health and personality is a good one. This would be a GOOD breeder. A good breeder will also have their adult dogs for you too look at so you can see the temperament and health of the parent dogs. This should be a good indicator if the puppies will be healthy also.
Good breeders will NOT hide anything! They will let you look around their kennel or house and let your drop by to look at dogs before you decide to buy one. They should also answer your questions and concerns and help you decide which breed is best for you.

Also, check out breed specific adoption agencies. That is where we adopted our dogs from and they have very good personalities. The agency was very forthcoming and helped up find a dog that was perfect for us. However our one dog does have some health problems. Nothing major, but still troubling sometimes. He was from a petshop I guess. I am sure he was from a puppy mill :( he has a wonderful personality though!

Also, mixed breeds are usually healthier than purebreeds. That is something to consider.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 2:18PM
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I did meet the mother dog, and the puppies inside her house when I got my Yorkie. Everything seemed fine. There were no red flags, and I am sure she was not abused, but she still refused to picked up and held, and would not sit on laps. This I think was not related to her treatment, but to the breeding for smallness, instead of emotional stability. I cant be sure, however. She developed these problems after it was too late to even consider returning her, as she went into adulthood. As puppy she slept in my bed, but one day she did not want to sleep in my bed any longer and refused to be put in the bed. It is a mystery to me why she changed.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 2:27PM
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I use to raise Silkies, many of the strains are tightly bred, makes for very sickly (expensive)and aggressive dogs. You should use two unrelated strains (outcross)for healthy pups. Not brother sister(in-bred) cross, or father daughter cross.

I personally like a cross between to known purebreds, seem to be healthier and live much longer. Had a cock-a-poo many years ago, lived to be ancient, never got sick, and had wonderful personality.

Silkies are hard to house break also!

Good luck


    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 2:32PM
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I think poodles are all around excellent for pets and other even other stuff like agility. I love my terrier mix but don't know that I'll rush to get another terrier due to that terrier temperment stuff.

Poodles are easy to train, long lived and don't require as much excercise as other large breeds and easy to find reputable breeders that do health testing. Of course they come in convenient toy and mini sizes.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 3:40PM
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Oh I forgot to just add that I bought a puppy from a breeder in another state and while it could have been a full days drive to get there she didn't approve of that long drive home with the puppy and so the dog was flown in at my expense. There's only one or two airlines that will ship dogs although some will let you take them on as carryon as long as they fit under the seat or something like that. It was only a 2 hour flight plus an hour to get home and there were no problems and no accidents surprisingly. I picked the puppy up at air cargo which was easy and free to park right by the door and no security (hey just like the ports!) Cost about double what a human ticket goes for with advance purchase. They won't take the dog if the weather is too hot but the cargo area is climate controlled they say.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 3:48PM
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Please go to Petfinder.com
It's fun :-) You can type in zipcode, size, sex, age, breed of dog you want and see what comes up in your area.
I just now did it for the hec of it. I put in my zip and small dog. Came up with tons of little cuties needing homes.Too bad I'm not in the market for one. :-)

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 4:31PM
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Since you're looking for other people's opinions... I find it not too difficult to deal with the bagage that comes with rescue dogs. The rescue organizations will tell you everything they know about the dog, health, temperment, phobias, whatever. They won't place a dog with a bad temperment. If it's sick they will give you details and let you decide if you are up to the challenge. I would avoid silkies and yorkies because your chances for disappointment are high. Consider a small mixed breed. I know those purebreds are lovely but they aren't for everyone. Why risk the disappointment again. So there is another opinion.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 4:34PM
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The reason I wanted a Silky is because I found a stray Silky over 10 years ago, and I was going to keep him, because he was 9 years old, and my vet said, he would be put to sleep, if I gave him up. I really loved him, and he was great, but he had a huge problem, he would pee right on the floor in front of me when I had the sliding glass door open with lawn access. But I was determined to keep him anyway. This was before breed rescue groups were out there, and before I had the internet.

So, I did put him in the yard, when I went out once, and it was fenced and safe, and someone opened a slide gate, and he must have gotten out. I never found him again, and we have rebuilt that side of the fence, so there is no way out of the yard now. But, I can see where this could be a problem with Silkies. He might have been stray because his last owners dumped him for peeing in the house. I only had him for one week, and we had other dogs at the time, so we were over our dog limit, at that point.

I was thinking that now I have no dogs, I want to get just one really special dog, either mixed or pure, that doesnt matter. It is only the personality, I am thinking about. I would not have put him in the yard while I was away if not for the peeing, our dogs were never locked out of the house at night. I am sure I would have kept him even with his "problem".

The Silky was such a great dog. He could climb the stairs without problem, and even climb on and off the bed without being helped. He was athletic in spite of his age, and very sensitive and intelligent.

He had some tooth problems, that I paid to have corrected before he ran away. I had a sense when I was walking him, that he wished to escape, and so I had not walked him without a leash. I think he was a serial feral dog, who needed some dental work, and allowed me to adopt him for one week.

He has one other health problems, he would chew on his front paws, and the vet said, he was self allergic. He has also been trained to shake paws, and he would offer a wet paw to shake over and over again. This was a slightly problem, but no where as bad as peeing in the house. Very often shelter dogs do come with emotional problems that can not be corrected. I know some people also get great dogs from shelters. I think I just have bad luck.

This is where I got the idea that Silkies might be tougher and more vigorous in health then Yorkies. But, if this is not the case, I would rather have a mixed breed, then have a lap dog who did not like to picked up and would not sit on laps. I think this may have been caused by grooming as a puppy while sitting on a lap had caused her to think that being picked up or sitting on laps is a bad thing? The Silky was not like that at all.

I have never had a poodle. I saw one at the Peninsula humane, but we have cats, and so they told me he was not good with cats, and none of the other dogs were either, that I was interested in size wise.

It is much more difficult to adopt dogs now a days because they screen out so many people where it might have worked out. The counselor said, you must find a dog who was owner surrendered who had cats before. When we adopted our first dog from Peninsula Humane, we also had cats, he got a long fine with one cat we did have, at the time. Now, they try to foresee each problem that could occur. The problem is often flakey people who change their mind about the dogs, so they say, he did not like cats, or I was allergic, or some other excuse when returning the dogs that the do not want for other reasons. Our ex-neighbors would buy purebreds and spend a lot of money, and then neglect them. It is not how much you spend, but how much care you put into the dog that will make a successful relationship.

The only indication that made them decide the poodle was not good with cats, was he was pulling slightly towards the cat area when on leash. I did not think that would mean he was terrible with cats. I would have willing to foster him or try him out, for a night to see how he would get along with the cats, but they do not allow that either.

I can see why people get frustrated, with the adoption process. I am still looking around, and it will take a while longer, I guess.

I know about Pet Finder, and I have been using it, but I also read on other forums, that it was not working so well, and the woman did not get contacted back, when she tried to adopt the dogs on Pet Finder. Each dog has been either too far from my location or not right for me in some other way. I definitely dont want another problem bitter and he was a mixed breed, so you never can tell.

If I could drive and even see the dogs, it might not be so bad, but I could not think of just going to pay pal and clicking and being shipped a dog like one would order pizza. That is good, that you were willing to drive to see them.
Thank you, and I welcome all opinions.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 6:55PM
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Isn't it also true that a good breeder or rescue group will interview YOU to make sure you will provide a good home for the pup/dog? I just could not see buying a puppy from a breeder who did not care who bought his dogs as long as they had the money. To me that means they were just merchandise for profit and so were most likely bred as cheaply as possible....meaning badly.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 9:16PM
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I go through my vet for my dogs and he refers me to where to go for what i want. I prefer mixed breeds, just my preferance. I've got two rescued dogs.(my first) The smallest was abt a year old when i got her.A very shy dog around people untill she gets to know them.So far she's very healthy. my big dog was a tiny puppy when i got him.He is healthy also tho was'nt expected to live when i got him.
I think you take a chance on health and mentality, whatever dog you choose. Thats what i've noticed.
I don't think i've helped you much. but maybe...
anyway good luck what ever you decide.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2006 at 9:41PM
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I have a Cocker I adopted from a backyard breeder. He suffers from separation anxiety, Cushings disease, still urinates in the house after 13 years. He's lucky he lives with me as I'm sure if he fell into someone else's hand he would be dead by now.

I have another Cocker who I adopted while doing Cocker rescue, (I'm a foster failure)he is the BEST little guy one could hope for.

I had another I adopted from a highly reputable breeder who had dogs with Championship lines, he suffered from epilepsy and latter in life he had an enlarged heart, thyroid problems, cherry eye which after surgery led to dry eye. Nature wise he was a perfect doll. He passed away at the age of 15-1/2.

What I'm trying to say is this, yes there are bad breeders out there. Not all Yorkies have medical issues as your last one had. Silkies are not hardier than Yorkies. My suggestion would be this, when you are shopping for a new dog, what ever breed, be sure to do a thorough background check on his/her lineage. Ask to see the puppies parents. Ask your vet if they know breeders who breed the dog your looking for. Get involved with Yorkie or any other type of rescue and foster until you find your perfect match.

Unfortunately there are breeders out there who are trying to make a quick buck. A good breeder really cares about their dogs and are not out to make a quick dollar.

Also check out the AKC website. They have a list of breeders for every breed imaginable.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2006 at 1:24AM
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I have two neighbors who did rescue adoptions.
1) Rudy, a full breed cocker spaniel from a cocker rescue organization. This couple has no kids living in the house, and were able to give Rudy full attention. He was older, probably 6 or 7 we guess, when they brought him home. He is very loving, acts like he knows he's their furbaby :-) and appreciates them. He has had health problems but nothing major. Mostly skin infections that, when treated, heal up pretty quickly. He's doggie door trained, and never barks. He seemed to be neglected but not abused when they adopted him. Even at his age had never been neutered so they had to take care of that when they brought him home.

2) Shadow, a mix. This couple had a daughter who was about 11 or 12 when they got Shadow, so she was old enough to really help give him the TLC he needed. This is a dog who KNOWS he was rescued and loves them so much because of it. They know he was abused by the previous owner, a man. And as a result, he did not like the dad too much. Took a while to warm up to him, but he eventually did. No major health problems, and with TLC turned into a great dog!

    Bookmark   October 25, 2006 at 8:07AM
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yes, good rescue groups will interview you! We had to submit an adoption application with references. The adoption group called EVERYONE of our references. I was surprised by that. Usually they come and visit your house however we were very far away so they did not do that for us. However they did ask us many questions.

So after they determined we would be good owners we decided on a dog that needed adopting. It just turned out they thought this one would be good for our family. They were right. If they didn't agree then we would wait and they would contact us when they found a dog that would be good for us.

The majority of adoption networks are VERY serious about placing a dog in the best home. They want that dog to be happy and have a forever home.

Also, I second Petfinder.com
We found both our dogs there! I LOVE that site!

    Bookmark   October 25, 2006 at 9:12AM
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You should read the book "paws to consider" it is a breed specific book that goes over most popular breeds and matches dog breeds with owner personalities. Very helpful. Also goes over which breeds are prone to which health problems (cocker spaniels being among the worst BTW, per this book). A must read for dog owners. It tells you how to choose a breeder too.

I agree with the "small" breeding thing. What is people's obsession with having tiny dogs? I have a mini-dachshund who is on the large end of mini - 15 lbs. which is at the limit of small for me. Some I am seeing now are so darn small. If I wanted a chihuahua, I woulda bought one... they are ruining the breed. I will have to look hard to find a standard sized one if I want another one next.

Breed specific rescue groups will be a good choice for you, because they are going to have seen every problem there is in that particular breed. Personally I would never even consider getting another dog unless it was from a reputable breeder. No pet shop dogs, you might get a good one, you might get a nightmare, and for how much they cost, you will pay the same or maybe less from a reputable breeder.

I know a person who did petfinder and it was a good match so far for her family. Good luck!

    Bookmark   October 25, 2006 at 11:54AM
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Rescues are as expensive as breeders in some cases. I can see an advantage to getting an adult dog, because you will know what the personality is like, as an adult. My dashhound who had the biting problem also could have been half crocker, and he had the worse separation anxiety.

People told me he would begin to make a loud crying sound and then real tears would come from his eyes, when I left him. He did not like my husband, and we wanted a dog we could both love. Our Chow Mix did love us both, however.

I learned the dash bounds trained to hunt badgers can call to thier owners if they are trapped underground. Naturally, I took him everywhere I could as much as I could, but when he started biting, he could not longer go to picnics and things with friends.

I loved him too much part with him. He lived until 14, and had no health problems, but he got crippling Arthritis in the around 10 and after that he was in constant pain, and finally we put him down. He could barely walk, and yet he still refused to picked up.

He can from Peninsula Humane. We are sure he had been abused in the past. Having so many problems with dogs, I am very nervous about getting a new dog. While its true I could have bailed out on Dante the bitter, I also knew no one else would take him, so I just kept him. I wish more people would not take the easy way out and abandon thier pets. Maybe I should have put him to sleep even sooner, being a bitter, he was supposed to have a muzzle on but he would not allow a muzzle to be put on or off, then later he decided his collar could not be removed or put on, and then he refused to let me click the leash on the collar.

The other dogs I have know that have terrible separation anxiety seem to be Golden Retrievers. This could have been puppy mill breed dogs. I wonder if some breeds just have natural separation anxiety? I only work part time and not every day, so I do have a lot more time to spend with a dog and one weekends my husband enjoys walking dogs, and so he get a lot of attention, but for some dogs that is not enough. With separation anxiety, they suffer being left for even five minutes, and of course, you cant put them in kennel over night. This can be a burden over time.

I have really enjoyed reading everyones stories. It does seem you take a chance when you get a dog no matter what. I am not the type of person to bail out on a dog. If his biting had been even worse, I might have, and many times, I thought about doing it. He mostly bite me and my husband, because he was banned from having anyone else touch him. No, do not pet him, I would tell everyone. That was very stressful. He never did a serious bite, just nips.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2006 at 12:36PM
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Honestly, your best bet is still getting a puppy of the breed that is a good match for you, (i.e. a little old lady would not be a good match with a st. bernard) from a reputable breeder and raising it to blend into your lifestyle.

Next I would say a breed rescue, (we got a dachshund from a breed rescue and she turned out awesome after we socialized her - took 2 years!) because they know the dogs and breeds personalities, and they can warn you ahead of time and you can decide on whether or not it is something you could possibly handle.

BTW: my dachsies never liked to be picked up either. Maybe yours was dropped once. They are not lap dogs, really are mini-hunting dogs and have the strong personality to match. They need strict training or they will run your house.

That's my opinion. Good luck!

    Bookmark   October 25, 2006 at 5:06PM
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My Dashhound mix would allow me to pick him up as needed, but the Yorkie refused to be picked up, and she needed to me picked up more then others because she had trouble walking. That was really sad, I also visited a older Silky, at resuce, and she would allow herself to be picked up either. It is serious problem when a small dog won't be picked up, because they need care. I had to pick her up anyway, but she would fight the whole time.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2006 at 5:31PM
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I noticed a Cairn Terrier/Silky on pet finder but he is in Santa Barbara, and I am in San Francisco. So, I got to thinking more about a mixed breed or even a Cairn Terrier. It is not easy to find a dog. Few people breed mixed breeds. I like the cutest of Yorkies, but I want a healthy dog, that is more important then the appearance of the dog. There are great older dogs, but my husband insists we only adopt a younger dog. We are trying to find one that we both like, and likes cats. If we get a dog, we have to be able to pick him up without him biting. We do not want another biter, or another dog that hates being picked up. This process is as difficult as adopting a child for us. Pets are our children.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 2:38PM
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It's not supposed to be easy. It is a big commitment. As far as people not breeding mixed breeds please don't encourage that to be done intentionally. Believe me, there are plenty of mixed breeds. Visit your local shelter.
Good luck in your search and take your time. I've no doubt you will find the perfect baby.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2006 at 3:55PM
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The terrier breeds tend to hate cats - and it usually can't be conditioned out of them... in my opinion. There are some dogs that just hate'em.

There are a lot of the pet stores that sell those "designer mutts". i.e. maltese-poodle, pekingese-poodles, labradoodles, puggles, etc. I don't agree with that at all... From what I have read they can be a recipe for disaster. I read an interview from a dog breeder and she said that the first one or two generations they are OK, but after that you will start to see problems with those "designer" breeds. I wonder if that is true?

I personally wouldn't want to risk it.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2006 at 5:13PM
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Good post...now I have to rant :-)

ARRRGGG!!! You said that "P" word. (PETSTORE) No reputable breeder sells to a pet store. If you get a dog or puppy from a pet store it should only be from one that doesn't "sell" puppies, but allows space for "adoption days" at no cost for shelters and rescues. PetSmart and PetCo are two that I know of. If you "buy" a puppy at a pet store you ARE supporting puppy mills and backyard breeders.
I'm glad you weren't advocating getting a dog from a petstore, or the mixed breeds bred intentionally.
And for these "designer breeds" as far as I know, they are not trying to make a new breed, but are continually breeding two seperate purebreds together. Which is nothing but a mixed breed dog in my opinion. There are plenty in the shelter.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2006 at 7:26PM
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Bug Girl, sounds like you are doing a lot of homework and that is the first step in finding and selecting the puppy or dog for you, and its breeder (if that is the way you go). I have no dogs, but we do have 3 wonderful registered Maine Coon cats, after many shelter rescues and one MC rescue we decided to find a kitten a few years back, and this year when we knew we were losing our 18 y.o. calico we started looking again.

The first thing I did was join a yahoo group that was all about Maine Coons, a couple of them. I read and read and read, looking at the posts of several breeders, watching what they had to say and finally contacting them and picking their brains. I became familiar with the breed standards and learned all that I could about the cats. I also haunted the Maine Coon sections of the Cat Fancy group and the Maine Coon Breeders & Fanciers websites, reading thru their info and contacting the breeders listed on them that were within driving distance for me.

I talked to them, asking how the kittens are raised, how many breeders they have, what food they feed, the name and number of their vet, references from other purchasers, do they show and of course any genetic problems and testing that they do, asked if they bred any other breeds, attended shows and talked to breeders. We then went to visit the cattery, paying attention to cleanliness, the dynamics of the household and how the kittens were cared for....were they in the main home, did the cats have run of the house? If the pups or kittens are young this may not be possible so I arranged my visit when they were about 8 weeks old. I paid attention to the way the breeder wanted me to behave (taking off shoes, washing hands, etc.). Also what the breeder wanted to know about us, both ours asked for references from us, including a contact for our vet (and they both called our clinic), they wanted to know about our household as well, how the kittens would be integrated and cared for daily.

I contacted our original breeder and she didn't have a litter on the ground but thru her I eventually found the breeder of the brothers we found this spring. A good, responsible and caring breeder is a wonderful person who is not in it for the money, they do what they do out of love of the breed.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2006 at 7:40PM
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Well, my Yorkie had huge medical problems, but she was great with cats, in fact, and the Silky was great with the cats, no chasing, but I have known about other Yorkie who chased cats, so it really depends on the dog. My husband and I are looking at a larger Poodle Mix over 20 pounds, he's a standard poodle mix, so maybe if we can get him, that would be a good dog, but it is really hard with so much demand. I mean I am sure someone else will get to him first, and be more qualified. He was marked as good with cats.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2006 at 9:38PM
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Have you filled out an application? I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. :-)

    Bookmark   October 30, 2006 at 10:37PM
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Another vouch here for Petfinder.com - I spent weeks on there looking for a 3rd dog to add to our family. During that time I considered becoming a foster family for a Yorkie rescue group. They were very nice and seemed desperate for help - perhaps you could check into doing something like that... and you could always end up adopting one (or two) of your fosters.

We didn't end up doing the Yorkie fostering, but adopted a great terrier mix from a rescue group an hour from my house. He looks just like the original movie dog Benji.

Now I'm involved in my local humane society, so dog #4 came from there (toy poodle). I know there are "bad" pet rescue stories out there, and we get dogs returned to our shelter at times, but I have never experienced it myself. Our benji dog has dominate traits, but is continually learning he's part of the pack, not the leader.

Good luck in whatever you end up doing! Its great that you are taking your time and not impulse buying/adopting.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2006 at 8:59AM
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(((Hugs))) to you and your new babies.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2006 at 9:28AM
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We filled out the application, but we may not be selected, we are meeting him at a petco, on Saturday. He reminds my husband of a childhood dog, that he owned, so now we both really want to take him.

I was wondering about the crossed dogs, if they are crossed each time with purebreds, but then not breed with each other why would they become worse in subsequent generations? Such a Yorkie with Poodle. I did look at those on Petfinder, but they are almost impossible to find, as I mentioned very few people seem to raise them, and sometimes, they are mistakes. My husbands dog was a mistake. His mother was pure breed standard poodle, and the father was unknown.

They think this dog is a standard poodle Bichon Frise, and he is not as big as standard poodle therefore, but not a toy type. I wonder now if the toy types are more sickly due to the breeding for smallness? This is only a theory of mine, but when I see super small Yorkies, tea cup Yorkies, I think what a disaster. People dont know just how bad things can get. The Yorkie had a fear of leaving the house, fear of being picked up, or touched even, she was not really even very much like having a dog. I have photos of her on my Webshots album, under the name buggirlx. You can see all the photos of many past pets and other pets, I took photos of. The Yorkie died of cancer two years ago, at age 11. The medical bills were enormous as well, constant chronic yeast infection, eyes drops that that cost 95 dollars every two weeks, or she would go blind. My vet swore all of this was due to inbreeding. She was six pounds, and that is not the super small ones that can be four pounds. Therefore, I am encourage that he is large, in the 20 pound range, and my husbands also thinks bigger is better, but we dont want to go to large breeds. Our largest was a chow mix, we had to take him, the neighbors did not want him, and he was a great dog, but larger then we wanted 65 pounds, but he was very mellow and quiet. Sometimes larger breeds like to run more, and need more exercise. I just hope the Bichon side of him was not breed to be small, and that it was not done with brother sister crosses or parent child crosses. We have only seen photos of him so far.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2006 at 12:31PM
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Posted by bug_girl (My Page) on Tue, Oct 31, 06 at 12:31

We filled out the application, but we may not be selected, we are meeting him at a petco, on Saturday. He reminds my husband of a childhood dog, that he owned, so now we both really want to take him.
If you filled out an application and they asked you to meet him at Petco that is a good sign.:-) They are under no obligation to actually go through with the adoption, but if it's like the rescue I volunteered for , it means you have been pre-approved. You are also under no obligation to adopt him either, so if he is not THE dog for you, say so. They'll want both you and the dog to be a good match.
Oh, and to anyone reading this, if you set up a meeting with rescue then change your mind and decide to not show, please let them know. It's very frustrating to make sure a certain animal gets to an adoption day to meet a potential adopter and they don't show. It's also a let down for the volunteers who are hoping one of their favorites is maybe going to find his forever home that day. Believe me, if they are anything like my group, they will be telling everyone who will listen, "so and so might be going home today!" They'll be talking to the dog, telling him he may be getting a new mommy and daddy that day. It's not so bad when they show and are not a match, but the no shows were really frustrating.Sorry this sounded like a rant, I'm sure no one here would be that inconsiderate. It's just another pet peeve of of mine.:-)
Good Luck Girl! Keep us posted

    Bookmark   October 31, 2006 at 4:45PM
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Well, it's an official day, and many dogs will be there to meet many people, and many others also could be wanting him. But, we are planning to go. Not, just a meet up for us and the dog only.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2006 at 5:09PM
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The way we worked was that say someone saw a dog or cat on the website,or at a previous adopt-a-pet day. They could do a pre-adopt application and then if it was approved we would then make sure that animal went to the adopt-a-pet that weekend either at Petco or PetSmart to meet them. Yes, we would have lots of animals but not all could go every weekend. There were too many and spread out in different foster homes.When someone was pre-approved, they were contacted to see if they could meet sometime during the day while we were there.We didn't do same day adoptions so any that were going home that day had already been pre-approved. We were pretty strict compared to other rescues tho. Maybe in your case someone else may get him first. He sounds like a cutie. Do you know how long they've had him?

    Bookmark   October 31, 2006 at 9:07PM
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I don't know. I only noticed him a few days ago. I won't provide the link to his photo, because I am worried someone else will see him. I am not sure if he was stray or given up, and I think he is in a foster home right now, but I don't even know that detail. If we don't take him, I will provide the link, but I am not sure if the is advertizing, and not allowed. If we take him, I will post his photos in my album. Some rescues have many interviews, and they come and look at your house, and it does take a long time. I think they are bring all the dogs to the pet store, it is pretty big.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2006 at 12:46PM
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Well it was pretty much a disaster trying to adopt that dog. Many people wanted him, and they all came to adopt him as well. Not only that he was sick, and they said, he got sick from being kept in a kennel instead of a foster home because they were not enough foster homes. I felt so sorry, I volunteered to foster him, so he could become healthy again, but of course, they wont let me foster him. We cant adopt him, until they come and view our house first, so I said, ok, you can come, but they dont have enough volunteers to go and view the foster homes. I would have rather that someone else even take the dog, and it not be me, so he could go into a home right away, but they wont do that either. But, the volunteer did say, she thinks that the lady in charge will take him home tonight, and probably he will get well again in a few days.

But, I have to say, adopting from this rescue society is very difficult, and this is the type of thing that drives people to buy a dog instead because of the heartbreak involved, not to mention the difficulty and the time consumed. For example we had to go to another city to just to view him, and it wasted the entire day. I would have taken him and brought him immediately to my full service vet, and paid for that, but we did not get the chance to do that. Plus the dog was not only sick, but very ungroomed and matted, because the rescue society has neither funds for vet care or grooming. I am not bitter, that I did not get him, I am just sorry, that they cant place him right away in home where someone can get him to the vet. I am only worried he might grow even sicker and die without proper medication attention, especially considering how many people would have adopted him like me, right on the spot. I just had to vent about this, and I am sorry. I may even still qualify to get him, but that really was a very sad experience.

    Bookmark   November 5, 2006 at 12:29PM
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I'm so sorry for your experience and for that dog's situation. Sounds like that rescue needs some organizing.
For one, a sick dog never should have been at an Adopt-A-Pet to begin with. If they can't afford medical treatment and grooming then maybe they are taking in more animals then they can handle. This is a rescue right? They are not forced to take animals in.
Sounds like a sad situation. Did you go to PetSmart or PetCo? If so, our rescue group had to meet certain criterias or we would lose our space. Taking sick and ungroomed animals in would have been a definate no-no.
The only complaints we got were from people upset because they couldn't just come in and "buy" the dog/cat without qualifying first.And yes, some would go to the manager about it or just storm out saying we weren't even trying to save homeless animals.
Again, I'm sorry for your sad experience.

    Bookmark   November 5, 2006 at 2:00PM
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It was not pet smart or petco, I dont want to say the name of the store, but it similar, but you know, I am not going to complain, not just to jeopardize my small chance, I may have to still get him, but also because maybe I am over reacting? It just seem to me, they could have come and approved our house, last week, when I contacted them, and the same with all the other people who were clearly good people who wanted to adopt the dogs, and then the dogs could have gone home at once to a preapproved home. This would mean there would be more resources left to care for the other dogs. Plus not taking him to a vet if he is sick, falls under the abuse category in my mind, and since he had large bald patches, he may have gotten sick if the kennel was not heating, and he was not properly groomed to handle the cold weather at night.

I also complained to the humane society about two of my neighbors who did the same thing to thier dogs. The dogs were not groomed, and forced to live outdoors all winter in the rain, and the humane society came and looked and said it was not a violation because there was a small ledge the dogs could stand under to be out of the rain. I still disagree, about that, but often complaining will not help in many cases, because animals dont have enough rights in general, and there is no law that a dog must be taken to the vet when he is sick or must be groomed, or allowed to live indoors, and that needs to change.

I dont know why people get dogs, and then force them to live outside. Dogs need to be part of the family. They are pack animals and often pine away and die when cut off from thier humans. One of the dogs, I complained about I believe actually did die, and one of them, was given to me, and we kept him, and he was restored to health. That was Lion my Chow German Sheppard. The other dog was short haired, and she got really sick, and died, in spite of me wanting to help. It is really up to the rescue society to take some responsible.

It was not Rocket Dog Rescue, and I am going to a fair they are having today, and also I am going to find out if they are better organized. But, I dont have a dog in mind from them.

This society does not preapprove homes, and I really think that is a mistake. You have to pick the dog first and then get your home approved, and this really slows the process down.

    Bookmark   November 5, 2006 at 2:46PM
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I just wanted to say, Rocket Dog Resuce was really nice. There was no dog there, that matched me, but they really listened to me explain what I was looking for in a dog, and they have my information in case something comes in. I asked about being pre approved, and normally, they dont do a home inspection unless the dog has special needs. I told them it would still be ok, if they wanted to check however.

They said, they also would allow a dog to be returned if he doesnt work out. They would even refund the money, and I said, that was good, or at least apply the fee to a different dog until you found one that worked out.

When I got Dante 15 years ago from Peninsula Humane, they did not take returns, at all, you have to surrender him. The first night with Dante was not good, he kept us up all night barking, but he did calm down in time, and then later become very quiet, rarely barking, and he was great until he became a problem bitter at six years old.

That is one of the reasons, we kept him also was that, I knew then he would be put to sleep for being a bitter, so I just lived with him, and it was very difficult. He could not go anywhere he might encounter people and I had to announce, that he was a problem bitter to anyone who came near. I was terrified of being sued, also. He was very high stress for us.

Its a lot better to work with a place, that will take returns.

    Bookmark   November 5, 2006 at 6:22PM
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URGH My computer just deleted my reply twice, third times a charm! I just wanted to say that as dog trainer breeding is not everything as far as personality and good behvior goes. When adopting an adult dog do temperment tests such as touching it's ears, picking up it's feet and looking at it's teeth to see how it responds. For puppies I like to turn them over on their backs when you're holding them off the ground to see if they are relaxed or not. You can do this with adult dogs too if you know what your doing, you might risk getting bit if you try it with the wrong dog. I wouldn't recommend this if you are in any way nervous or the dog will sense it. You may be getting in over your head sometimes if you don't at least do these basic tests and not just go on how cute the dog is. The first year in a dogs life is the "golden year" for training. I'm not in any way saying that you can't change a dogs behavior but it gets harder to correct the damage pervious bad owners have done either from not socalizing or physical abuse. Dogs are amazing at their ability to adapt but in some cases in can be a true power struggle and if you do not come out alpha. Don't get me wrong I believe in adopting pets but just want people to adopt the "right" ones.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2006 at 12:18AM
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I do agree with you. My Dante, the biter, was a example, he had been abused early in life. We discovered he was afraid of brooms and canes. I tried to be the best mother in the world to him. I was with him constantly, and I didn't even work part time during most of his life, but not much could be done. Any type of correction would only make him more aggressive.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2006 at 12:25AM
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Correcting aggression is all about finding the right method for each dog. Some dogs respond better to different methods. If anyone wants more dog training tips we could start a seperate foroum for things like "my dog pulls me down the street" what do I do? Or "my dog steals food off the counter" what do I do. Etc. I've been dog training professionally for a couple of years. Probably going to have to quit because of my back injury but I like to share what I know. There are many different methods to train dogs and I believe that food reward is one of the quickest and easiest.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2006 at 3:53AM
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Wow, I am amazed that so many people are interested in the same dog - I'd love to have that problem with our shelter dogs!

Sorry it didn't work out (yet) for you and the poodle, but keep looking! I'm sure the right dog is out there for you.

Our shelter is currently overflowing with dogs... there are cages in the hallways even. :( I wish you lived in this area!


    Bookmark   November 6, 2006 at 10:36AM
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Yeah, I often find great dogs on Petfinder in other areas. The problem is San Francisco is like New York with small apartments, and small spaces, no one can afford large homes here, if you look at the prices. Small dogs are super popular here, and large dogs are not, gardens and yards are very small, also.

I was again traumatized, yesterday. I stopped in a pet store to buy crickets for my pet frog, and I looked over at the puppies they have in cages there. I saw a small white poodle who was adorable, but the puppies once they come into the pet store, are emotional scarred for life, because the workers dont have time to spend personal time with them. I asked the clerk how much the poodle costs and she said, 1,000 dollars, and it is not just the money that is the problem, it is how they are treated in these small cages. They dont get enough human contact. Our SPCA has a system of rooms that looks like a living room, so the dogs and cats feel like they are in a home. If they cant do that at the pet store, they should have them stay with away, until someone shows interest or orders the dog. The only chance would be to get a dog as soon as he arrives at that pet store, once he as spent time there, I am sure he would be ruined for life.

The SPCA is wonderful for the set up they have for dogs and cats. But, it was really impossible to get a dog there, they would not let me look at even one dog, each one, they said, either had behavior problems, or health problems and could not be seen. One was a puppy, and to qualify for puppies you have to pass a special application process. I left there feeling I was not good enough to adopt there, but I guess it doesnt matter, because the dogs are so happy, there they can stay for life. It is a no kill pound. The dogs are relaxing a in a living room, and have other dogs for friends, and also volunteers spend much time with them each day. It is like the Ritz Carlton for dogs. They said, they would call me, but it they never did.

If the pet store hired people to come in and spend time with the puppies after hours, it would still be a disaster, but not as bad. That pet store often upsets me, which is why that would be the last choice as the worse place to get a puppy. The thing is toy poodles are a bit small. The dog we wanted was a mixed breed, that was more to the medium size, but smaller then a standard Poodle, which is why we really wanted him. I am still worried, that breeding for smallness will cause long term healthy problems like with my Yorkie. Naturally, I did not ask to see the poodle knowing that would make me feel even worse. I dont know how long he has be trapped there, and if he is already damaged emotional, but he looked so tragically sad.

Standard poodles I have know are aggressive, there was one who would routinely threaten Dante at a dog park we frequently went to, and I had to pick him up and carry him away. He only threatened him because Dante would growl first, but Dante never got in a dog fight even once. He just liked to show he was not intimated by bigger dogs, and the Poodle took offense, so it got the point, if I saw him there, I had to just leave quickly.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2006 at 11:13AM
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I adopted from a breed specific rescue. I was raised with a particular breed of hunting dog, and even bought one about 10 years ago. Very sweet and loving, obedient and excellent house manners. She has a heart murmur and is gun shy, so she was not slated to become either a hunter or a breeder.
Her companion (another hunting dog that was "dropped off" because the owners couldn't handle the inconvenience) died the year before at age 14, and I think they should always have a friend.
The rescue organization said there was a LOT of interest in her, but they would come and see where we lived (on a farm). They brought her along so we could really look at her too, and see how she got along with the other dog.
When they came in the house and saw the dog print pillow, the art on the walls (Wyeth's "His Masters Bed"), the hunting dog sculptures, I thought they would fall over from joy! They left her with us, we made the required donation, and my husband jokes that they were high fiving each other as they were driving out the driveway.
It was a very positive experience, though the dog turned out to not be purebred (I really didn't care about that) and about half the size she should be. I actually like that about her now, she's part terrier I think. The rescue organization was very clear about their policy and they could come back at any time and take the dog if they felt that she was not being cared for. They made it very clear that the responsibility for this dog is not taken lightly, and I have felt more obligation for her care than any other dog(s).
Hope you are able to find a dog that suits you and your lifestyle. I have had success with both breeders and rescues. Maybe you need to broaden your search to include a more companionable breed, rather than judge just by size. I would say that you have had bad experiences with Silkies and Yorkies, try something else!

    Bookmark   November 7, 2006 at 5:48PM
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Please stay away from the pet stores that sell puppies. Personally I'd never buy fish food in one. No reputable breeder would sell to a pet store and those who buy a pup are keeping the puppy mills in business.
Stop for one second and get that puppy from your mind. Instead, think about that puppy's mom. Do you want her to be forced to have yet another litter because there is a market for her puppies? If you want a registered purebred, find a reputable breeder.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2006 at 6:07PM
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Pet stores that sell puppies get them from puppy mills and other disreputable breeders.

My experiences with both Yorkies and Silkies has not been good. I would NEVER own either breed. The two Yorkies that live behind me both bark constantly and they aren't friendly either, they growl and snap at everyone.

I have not ever known a nice Yorkie, just barking snapping ones, but I have an online friend who has a wonderful one.

My sister's Silky had submission urination problems and separation anxiety and also was a yapper.

I have known several wonderful poodles in my lifetime.

Terriers are, in general; high strung, not good with other animals and barkers. NOT always, but very often. I would NOT own a Jack Russell either but I would own a Cairn or a Scottie though Scotties are very prone to cancer. :( Westies are much healthier.

"Tea Cup" is a a term disreputable breeders use to sell their puppies. There is no such thing as a Tea Cup Yorkie, Chihuaua or Poodle according to the AKC, they are marketing ploys for often grossly inbred puppies loaded with health problems, not so much because of their size but because of their breeding.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2006 at 11:09PM
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We have 3 dogs and a cat. 2 of the dogs were found on petfinder and we are really happy.

Riley is a large shepherd/retriever/hound mix and Lola is a purebred (not well bred) German Shepherd Dog. Riley we got as a puppy and his temperment is wonderful. I think partly because of his mix and partly a lot of socialization. Lola was around 3 years old when we adopted her. She was starvation skinny and a fence jumper. Sweetest dog ever to visitors and was wonderful with the odd cat I would take in. She used to carry one around in her mouth if he started to roam too far from me. She'd plop him in front of me with this "you need to keep a better eye on him" look. :)
There are a lot of success stories with rescues/shelter pets. Just be patient.
You also seem to be very influenced by a breed's reputation. One or two stories do not do a breed justice.
GSD's, for example, are generally feared. There have been plenty of people who took the long way around me to avoid her because of a reputation that she didn't earn. Dogs should be evaluated individually and the traits of the breed (fur, structure, job...what they are bred to do) then taken into account.

    Bookmark   November 10, 2006 at 6:27PM
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alex, thanks for the uplifting post. Your dogs sound wonderful.
I used to have great dane who would carry around tiny rescue kittens. It looked pretty scary when all you could see was a head sticking out one side and a tail out the other side of her mouth, but they didn't seem to mind, and she got to be a "mother."

    Bookmark   November 11, 2006 at 4:52PM
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I work with schnauzer rescue in the Southeast; if you have not considered a mini schnauzer I would suggest that you look into them. Great breed! They should be 15-25 pounds.

I agree with you that breeders are trying to make dogs smaller and causing problems in the process. Some breeds have been negatively affected by selection for color, as well. A good breeder always breeds for temperament.
Research the breed.... if you think a schnauzer may be for you, then check out the Schnauzer Rescue Board. You can search for rescues and dogs by posting your location and interest.


    Bookmark   March 23, 2007 at 12:53PM
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I'm just now reading the followups but I had a siliar experience with rescue groups that show dogs at petstores. It's absurd. They get a huge stack of applications then continue to show the dog and that's not fair.

If you really want to save a dog in need, go to the county shelter. Those dogs have a limited time there if you catch my drift and they are more fair about their policies. Finding a purebred isn't all that common but occasionaly they pop up. You just have to rush in and get there before the rescue groups get them.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2007 at 11:44AM
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I believe the OP bought a poodle at a petstore that was from a puppy mill and had severe medical problems, if I remember correctly.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2007 at 4:43PM
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Yep, many posters tried to steer her in a different direction. All to no avail. So sad. I do hope her dog is doing well though.
Oh...nothing against poodles...it was the petstore route that she took that upset a few of us.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2007 at 6:59PM
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Well in case anyone is wondering why just try to adopt from one of those saturday morning petsmart functions in a big city and you'll see why people try to find a less stressful route.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2007 at 8:20PM
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That makes buying a petstore puppy ok in your book?

    Bookmark   March 24, 2007 at 8:24PM
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beeanne: She didn't say she was going to buy from a petstore - reread what she said.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2007 at 4:50PM
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The OP did buy a petstore poodle. It sounded like Quirky was defending that choice. I was just wondering if she thought because it can be stressful to adopt from a rescue, it was then ok to go the petstore route.
Besides, there are more than just those two choices if you are looking for a pet.

    Bookmark   March 26, 2007 at 5:10PM
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No I'm not advocating buying from a petstore just pointing out that it is far less stressful (at least in the short term!) than filling out applications, getting your house inspected, fighting off all the morons at the petstore vying over the dogs for adoption. I would however advocate visiting a large county shelter that euthanizes dogs that are not adopted because they are much more fair in their policies and far less expensive and don't assess adoption fees based on cuteness or the number of applications collected. All I'm saying is I can understand why people don't want to deal with the competition and would go to a petstore instead. On the same token I can't understand why someone would buy from a pet store! I hope that makes more sense.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2007 at 9:34AM
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quirkyquerus: I totally agree. We don't really have any pet stores to speak of in my area other than Petsmart. I have never gotten a pet from a petstore except for hamsters and guinea pigs and fish. I think when people buy at a petstore it's more for convenience. They decide they want a pet and they go shopping. I tend to buy from breeders unless I can find the specific breed I want from rescue. In the past I have gotten rescue animals but what I learned is that sometimes you really do need to pick an animal that will fit with your family better. This is a long term committment. Too many people buy because the breed is popular or cute and then they find out it doesn't get along with kids or cats or whatever and the dog ends up being abandoned. Research is really important. I spent a year and a half researching my current dog before I got him and he's better than I could have hoped for. My last dog was with us for over 14 years (a retriever)who was perfect for our family then.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2007 at 11:44AM
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Good for you. I did a lot of research too when selecting my last puppy's breed to the point I almost chickened out of doing so because all the people said how challenging they can be to manage and this and that but you know peace o' cake for quirky and beasley, we got this puppy right on track. He just turned one and he's really behaving like a big boy... most of the time.. he hahe.

    Bookmark   April 1, 2007 at 2:54PM
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I would imagine that finding out the pet store purchased puppy has severe medical problems was very stressful too!

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 8:59PM
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