A good, vintage-y Ben Moore cabinet yellow?

marcoloFebruary 26, 2013

So, I guess this is the month of completely revisiting decisions I made in July. This was discontinued, that won't work, the other thing sold out because Jennifer Garner said she liked it.

Which brings me to the yellow for my cabinets.

I've been planning on using Philadelphia Cream, a historic color from Benjy Moore. I painted it on a mockup of a cab face, and then moved on to daub it on some of my existing doomed cabinetry. It's OK in some lights. However, at various times of the day it turns on me. It goes green, a sort of dirty olive color that somehow manages to be a little chartreuse at the same time. It still might be OK, it's hard to judge with the wretched lighting currently in the kitchen. But I better find an alternative fast.

What won't work is the Barley in 2LittleFishies kitchen. It's too intense. Even the next lighter color, Cornsilk, is too hubba-hubba in my kitchen.I like the beigeness of the Philadelphia Cream, just not the green tones.

I have also requested some Farrow and Ball colors. They took my credit card money promptly but will now get around to actually giving me the samples in about a week. (This is par for the course in the home reno industry; those of you who dislike the attitudes of tile salespeople simply don't understand that you're supposed to say good morning and then patiently wait 7-10 days for a reply.) The small F&B free color card is, I am convinced, a practical joke by the English factory workers, since it bears no relationship whatsoever to the actual paints. So I'm waiting for the little pots to arrive.

In the meanwhile, can anybody suggest a yellow that might work? Muted and a bit beige without being too green? It's got to be Ben Moore because if someone tells me to buy one more fan deck I'm coming after them with a paint pan.

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It's not Ben Moore, but in my old house reno I've been using almost all Old Village Paint. It's a very old company that respects paint making as an art. They have a very small range of colors that are all historically founded, and it's not cheap. For you, what they call corner cupboard yellowish white might work. You have to buy the color card, but it's very cheap, and the owner of the company will likely answer the phone when you call.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 5:33PM
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Corinthian White?

Pumpkin Seeds?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:13PM
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Consider Homestead house paints as well. They are based in Toronto and they pick up the phone. If you want to see a sample kitchen, look at Elizpiz's kitchen in FKB. She used them. Her colors are Tapestry with Cartier on the island I believe (with some glazing, distressing etc.)

I have Barley and Corn Silk and Westminister gold in my landing and those colors are quite intense. In my light, Barley reads much more intense than fishies kitchen.
In the BM family, the toned down yellows we tried based on suggestions from a color consultant are:

- Haystack (I did not detect any undertone to this)
- Hawthorne yellow (had a bit of gray undertone but looked good in our older home. It is supposed to be a historical color)
- Vellum (It looked good in a room with more natural light but not in the area we wanted to use it for.

I also tried a bunch of FB yellows. The samples and the paints I ordered on the website have always arrived pronto.
- Dayroom yellow - This was the leading contender for the kitchen before I abandoned plans to paint the bricks. This had no undertone and was really nice and cheery.

- Farrow's Cream - This was our choice for our daughter's room. Pale but not watery. Kind of like nice yellow cream. Despite what your paint guy says, you need to use the suitable F&B recommended undercoat. It always seems to look best with the correct undercoat in large areas. think of it as the right color of petticoat under a translucent dress. For samples a couple of layers is good. Also if this is for cabinets, you are seeing estate emulsion in the sample which has hardly any sheen. Kind of translucent matte color. The eggshell is much more reflective.

- Lancaster Yellow - This was just OK. I much preferred dayroom yellow.

- Tallow - This is much more a warm white with a yellow undertone. This is what finally ended up painting my daughter's room.

Citron, Babouche etc were very very intense. Sudbury yellow needs a larger expanse in a darkish room to work I think. It just looked drab on my walls.

Hope this helps

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:30PM
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BM "Man on the Moon" (OC-106) is soft, rich, buttery, and super-subtle. No hint of peach, zingy lemon, or green tones.

Like most soft yellows, it looks sensational next to something white.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:36PM
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A couple more F&B I tried.

Hound Lemon- This was much paler than I expected. Has a pale green undertone.
Pale hound - A much much pler version of hound lemon.. In fact unless you painted swatches right next to each other, you would not know they are shades of each other.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:37PM
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Fori is not pleased

I have "Light Yellow" in my weirdly lit foyer. It's always yellow, regardless of the lighting. Probably too clean a yellow to pass for vintage though.

Will you be using fluorescent lighting? Sounds like you might need to hook up a few fixtures or at least screw in their bulbs before deciding.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:42PM
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Aaaahhh- so glad I'm not in your shoes!! (ok, had to get that out!)

I recently threw out PILES of 8x8 yellows that I had b/c I was too scared I'd start going through them again out of habit and then WISH I had tried a different color! I wish I had them to help you, but let me think about some of the options...

Haystack was one of my options at one point and ended up way too bright- more so than barley for sure. As you know, Vellum is almost identical to Barley. I know you don't like Hawthorne Yellow either.

Is America's Heartland saturated enough for you? It's above Corn Silk (didn't like CS at all) and Barley and is a beautiful color- and not green IMO. My kitchen was too bright for it and it wouldn't have contrasted enough with the white but you might like it!?

Also, Harp Strings and Santo Domingo Cream are coming to mind. Especially the latter.

Also BM Rich Cream, Windham Cream, & Antiquity. There's another color that is the SAME as Antiquity but a different name-- now I forget what it is! Lastly, check out summer harvest. (golden lab & mushroom cap?) I don't have them in front of me- just going off memory.

You probably are familiar with most of these but I remember them being really nice (depending on several variables, of course)

While it won't be very helpful, Barley in my old space looked bad and not yellow at all. I never thought it would be right. Once the kitchen was gutted and the addition was done with different windows, and without the HORRIBLE lighting I had it was a totally different story and that's when I confirmed the color. This isn't to suggest that Barley is for you, rather to say that I feel for you b/c picking a color in your situation is killer.... as you know...

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:52PM
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Pale Moon and Weston Flax too...

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:54PM
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Pale Moon and Weston Flax too...

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:55PM
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Simply Irresistible or Summer Harvest, the lighter shades on the Vellum strip. We painted our upstairs in Simply and it's a soft yellow in bright light, French Vanilla in low light. No fleshy or green tones.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:57PM
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Marcolo, I have Philadelphia Cream in a very small bathroom, which has an east-facing window and a ceiling that goes from 9 to 11 feet. So, high walls close together and yellow feeding off itself. It went from a gentle, creamy yellow on a too-small sample to a raging yellow I can't wait to repaint. I can't say I see the green in it, but in certain light is has a real growly edge. Your lighting is gonna tell the tale.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 6:58PM
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Can't help with the color selection just yet but wanted to thank you for the thread as I am on the same boat.

I was told that BM classic collection has gray undertone (don't know how to explain it), that is why you may be seeing it turning "greenish".

You may wish to try their Color Preview line.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 7:06PM
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I have BM Citronee everywhere in my house - Classic Color 281. It appears very creamy next to the various colors I have throughout my home, but when placed next to a true ivory or creamy white, the understated yellow tones become clear.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 7:18PM
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Anything that looks like a light yellow on the strip amplifies in the room. I had the same experience as Linelle with Fresh Butter in a powder room. It looked like egg yolk on the wall. Repainted with Simply Irresistible that we used upstairs.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 7:20PM
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Wow, do I have a lot of homework. :(

Going for these goldy beigy yellows is just a total PITA, since you know the color on the chip has zero to do with the final effect.

One thing I should mention is that the wall color is Tea Light, and the island will be Brick Red (I think, I have to check the sample. There are even more colors in the room and believe it or not, they all look great together as long as the yellow is right.

I'll look into the F&B recommendations when the samples arrive.

As far as the Ben Moore suggestions go:

Pumpkin seeds looks peachy and Corinthian white does, too, next to the Tea Light.

Haystack, Hawthorn and Vellum don't work for various reasons. The Vellum strip also has that greenish tone with the wall color.

Man on the moon seems too pale on first blush.

America's Heartland doesn't seem dark enough.

Santo Domingo cream, too citron.

Pale Moon looks pretty close but I can't find good pictures of it installed on the web. It possibly is too pale but a sample isn't big enough to tell.

Shoot me.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 8:15PM
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BM Filtered Sunlight is a pale beige-ish yellow in our space.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 8:32PM
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Is Dunmore Cream or Pittsfield Buff possible? They may not be clean enough. Again, I'm not looking at them right now.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2013 at 9:00PM
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Well, through rain and wind someone is bringing me six, count 'em, six more BM samples culled from suggestions on this list. I'll report back, probably in a state of extreme mental breakdown.

I would post some pictures, but my iPhone does an absolutely terrible job of capturing these colors. It would be useless and misleading, so you're just going to have to go by the noises I make.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 2:53PM
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I don't think 6 is enough. It's more fun to get 20-25 to go through! Lol

Can't wait to hear!!

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 3:13PM
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Don't forget, too, that BM likely can match any color -- for example, if you really liked SW antique white, they can mix that in their paint (I am assuming, since SW can definitely do this)

SW Antique white btw is a pale yellow-tan-white -- but has some pink undertones.

Also, if there is a shade that you really like but it is too pale, or too strong, sometimes, depending on the formula, they can mix it double or half strength. I've done this to get my trim paint just so.

Do you know if you are wanting a more complex color, muted, clear? You don't want green undertones (or maybe you do, since you picked this shade initially, just more subtle); try to figure out what undertones the paint that it has to complement has, that will narrow your choices considerably. Put the Tea Light on a piece of typing paper and use that to compare your candidates.

I know what you mean about the color turning on you with the chartreuse tones -- the color I picked for my bedroom did the same thing once it was on the walls.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 3:55PM
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raee, I have to take issue with pink undertones in SW Antique White. Aside from my tragic Philadelphia Cream bathroom and a sagey bedroom, the entire rest of my house is SW Antique White, including my kitchen. Gold, yellow, tan undertones, sure. But pink and I do not get along and pink undertones would not have lasted a day in my house.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 4:50PM
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You might try Sherwin Williams Jersey cream. I think you will find it very similar to Philadelphia cream. This color is a creamy yellow, a match to an old 1930's cabinet I own. At least in the west light of my kitchen it does not go green, isn't too "dirty" but doesn't scream yellow. I'm going to use it when I redo my kitchen.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 4:57PM
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I'm going 100% Ben Moore because I'm using a color consultant that mostly deals with that line. I could just toss the problem to her, but she's expensive, so the more I know in advance the more time and money I save. In other words, it's a lot cheaper to casually mention, "Oh, I already know I hate Ben More 666, Manure Gold," than it is to go back and forth with emails and calls on the issue.

One of the problems I have with yellows is that after a while I just don't see them correctly. There's a Modernaire color called "Custard" that I loved, a perfect aged creamy yellow or gold when paired with the Tea Light. Now I stare at the chip and I can't see the yellow in it anymore. I don't have any problems seeing yellow normally--in fact I think I'm a lot more observant of color than other people I know. It's the staring and thinking that shuts your brain down, trying to protect itself probably.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 5:04PM
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I totally get what you're saying. Really.

How were the ones you received today?

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 5:15PM
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The suggestion about the light bulb(s) is a good one. Incidentally, a few years back, several people I know used Restoration Hardware Butter Yellow and Butter Cream mixed in BM Regal on walls and were pleased with the result, i.e., did not see green or brown or pink. However, this was not in your area of the U.S.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 5:31PM
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Most of our interior is painted BM Cream Yellow with white trim. It is working well for our light.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 5:33PM
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Benjamin Moore Windham Cream (#HC-6). 2LittleFishies mentioned it, and I'll second it. It's cream with a touch of yellow. Benjamin Moore describes it as "A sunlit, luscious cream with a whispery undertone of pale butter." The website's pic appears deeper than actual, and deeper even than their own description, though it could just be my monitor.

I have it on my kitchen walls, and I love it. I do have a very large window, though it faces north-west and there's lots of trees, so I am not getting any direct light. The paint color is paler during the day with the yellow barely detectible, while at night, it is definitely yellow. It really is a butter color, but think the color of imported french butter, not annatto-enhanced supermarket butter.

Here is a link that might be useful: Benjamin Moore Windham Cream

This post was edited by akchicago on Wed, Feb 27, 13 at 19:43

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 7:02PM
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what about BM linen sand or beach haven

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 9:22PM
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These are all pretty colors. The chips aren't dry yet so I can't judge for sure. Plus I have to wait for morning. I tried:

America's heartland 197
Summer harvest 206
Weston flax HC5
Pale moon OC 108
Golden straw 2152 50
Wyndham cream HC 6

So far, Golden straw looks best. The rest of the colors are too pale, though they will darken as they fully dry. Amazing to see the range from peaches to greens! One thing Fishies and I have learned, if you like yellow, rip out the entire yellow section from the BM paint deck and throw it away.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 9:34PM
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Hey, are you getting the free 8x8 and 5x9 swatches from BM?

I know you know this but make sure you look at them all times of the day. My Barley is very light in the early morning hours and gets more saturated toward evening. It's amazing how it changes throughout the day! Luckily b/c of the undertones it never gets very bright nor green. Most of the other yellows I had would have been ugly at one time of the day at least.

Oh, also try not to look at them next to each other b/c it does really sway you the wrong way sometimes. People gave me that advice but b/c I was mostly painting my old (existing) cabs I couldn't separate them and it was hard to block out all the various yellows when choosing. I always put Barley in the no pile b/c next to the other colors it didn't look yellow at all. However, on it's own it does read yellow. Similarly, I have one Le Creuset pot that is too much of a citron yellow and if I keep it out (at certain times of day), it screws up the color of my cabinets and they look too orangey.

I wish America's Heartland would work for you! I think it's a really good color.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 9:52PM
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I read you're supposed to compare paint swatches against a true gray, not white. White intensifies them.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 10:40PM
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when i was searching for the perfect beige, i ran across several that were too yellow for my kitchen. but maybe it might work for you since you are looking for yellow with a touch of beige? I have tried BM elephant tusk, which I think some people classify as a white (but it read very yellow in my place). i thought it was quite nice.

some others I have tried were linen white, and mayonnaise, which are probably more beige/white than you are looking for, but they are also pretty nice yellow tones.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2013 at 11:42PM
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I have Elephant Tusk in my Kitchen (walls). Funny that it seemed beige on the poster board I painted but then when it got painted on the kitchen walls (pre-cabinets) it looked yellowy and I got nervous b/c I didn't want even MORE yellow. However once the yellow cabs went in it went back to looking beige and not yellow at all! : )

Anyway, it's too light for marcolo but I think what you say makes sense michoumonster. I think marcolo will need a yellowy beige/cream and the right one will read yellow.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 7:49AM
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Here is BM Asbury Sand (nice warm yellow) and BM Soft Beige (nice lighter yellow). You can see them side by side in this picture. They are on the same chit.

Here is soft beige in another room (see wall with arch) beyond that is the Asbury again above the kitchen cabinets (cabinets are an oil from another brand)

This post was edited by jterrilynn on Thu, Feb 28, 13 at 8:59

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 8:48AM
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Isn't it crazy how many shades of white, cream and yellow are available?

My sofa right now is covered with cards, trying to decide on wall color.

Linelle, I had a painted door sample that was supposedly SW Antique White and it did have a very subtle pink undertone. But, now I have a color card from the store, and I agree, I don't see it there. It's quite a nice color, close to what my LR/DR/stairs/3rd bedroom are all painted.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 11:02AM
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raee, I don't know if it's possible to get the Glidden Antique White mixed up in a different brand but it is a very wonderful off white.
I used to hate Glidden paint due to its bad coverage and watery consistency but I guess there have been changes made, itâÂÂs now much thicker. I have just painted some doors and trim but will not vouch for its hardiness as I have not had it long enough. So, if you liked the color I would get it mixed by another brand. Gliddens satin sheen is nice, no where near as shinny as a gloss but a little shinier than BM and SW satin.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 11:43AM
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I had a similar problem finding the right shade of purple, for my niece's bedroom (a bookcase, not the wall). Finally, I took in a bright purple three-ring binder and had them color match it. Turned out to be the perfect shade to balance her turquoise and lime green :)

My point is...sometimes the 'right' color isn't on the paint samples. Look for your perfect light yellow on something else and then have them color match a small amount for you.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 11:46AM
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Golden straw still looks like a possibility in the daylight. Of course we're not actually supposed to see real sunlight for another two weeks, so I'm just guessing.

On another note, The Farrow and Ball samples finally arrived. I am extremely irritated by how inaccurate their small color chip samples are. I ordered multiple samples that I really have no interest in, now that I see them. Not even close. However, the Farrow's cream looks like a real possibility along with maybe one or two other colors.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 12:41PM
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Circus Peanut

Ugh. I remember the pain. My finalists:

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 4:55PM
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circuspeanut- Good to hear from you : ) I haven't seen you in a while.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 4:57PM
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Gotta throw in SW Iviore. We were looking for the perfect yellow for our showroom, and every one we tried turned school bus in our lighting. Iviore was what the manager at SW suggested, and I thought it would be too beige, not yellow. No, it's perfect with both the Tidal Mist painted hutch and the Black Forest Alder perimeter cabinets.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 5:48PM
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My upstairs bathroom is painted BM tea light. In today's light (south facing window on a bright overcast afternoon) Calming Cream OC-105 was the best soft vintagey yellow I could find for tea light.

Golden Straw looked very gold.

And, BTW, we aren't happy with tea light. It only looks good on overcast days. Not good when the sun is shining or with artificial light. It's on our list to repaint.

This post was edited by donaleen on Fri, Mar 1, 13 at 11:23

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 6:30PM
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Circus Peanut

hi Fishies!
Difficult year, family member with terminal illness, haven't been online as much lately. But no fear, I'll be remodeling my new old kitchen this coming summer and back for lots of input then.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 6:36PM
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I painted my kitchen cabinets BM Good Vibrations and my home exterior BM Weston Flax. Love them both, but yellow is so very dependent on lighting. My kitchen has an east-facing double window over the sink and gets a lot of morning light. That said, the Good Vibrations also looks happy and lovely even on a gray day. I do not see *any* green undertones in it.

Good luck -- it took me 15 samples painted on maple by me followed by 3 samples painted on maple by Brighton Cabinets for me to decide on it. Outside, I tried 5 different yellows and found that Hawthorne was way more green/gray than the others. I liked Weston Flax because it was also historical but didn't have the gray/green.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 8:36PM
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jterrilyn - How interesting! In my house, Asbury Sand looked umistakably ... PEACH. It did not work at all. Looks lovely in yours, though!

    Bookmark   February 28, 2013 at 8:38PM
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Have you seen grlwprls's sneak peek thread with BM Vellum cabs?

    Bookmark   March 1, 2013 at 12:44PM
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jterrilynn, thanks for the tip on the glidden Antique White.

I can tell you it is definitely possible to get a Glidden (and I assume other brands) color mixed at Sherwin Williams; I did this when the exterior of the house was painted. Glidden "High Tea" is the color I fell in love with and SW did it perfectly.

SW also was able to perfectly match the can of wall paint that I had tinkered with (a little red, a little black, a little cottage white added to the yellow that had the chartreuse undertone) to give me a can of trim paint.

So, marcolo isn't limited to BM colors, he can find any brand color and I'll bet BM can mix or match it.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2013 at 5:44PM
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I like Lav's idea ( and have done this) of finding the right color somewhere and getting it matched at the store.

Once had a beautiful 1930's green metal tray matched and the paint color turned out wonderfully.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 5:50AM
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The thing with yellow is that it "blows up" the more surface area it covers, am I right? I wanted my cabinets to "read" BM Fresh Butter. To do that, I could not actually paint them that color. You really have to Ignore the chip colors almost entirely and be prepared to pick a dirty yellow/more brown than seems advisable color. For me, that came down to Vellum. I also looked at BM Goldfinch, but it was just a bit too brown even "blown up." In the bright sunlight, the sink base cabinets really do read BM Fresh Butter to me, until I hold the chip up to them. Then, they don't. Yellow is the hardest color - also because the color takes several coats (often) to fully develop (so its a pain to swatch it).

The cabinet color was the hardest part of my kitchen plan. When you see my mood board at the final reveal, you'll still see the Fresh Butter strip :-). I couldn't let it go (and the Vellum strip is just "meh").

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 9:32AM
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I THINK marcolo really wants more of a cream than yellow as he mentioned my Barley (almost exact to grlwprls Vellum) is too intense.

I agree with you 100% grlwprls about choosing a dirty yellow/more brown.

It would be great if the lighter colors in the Barley strip and/or Vellum strip would work. I know, though, when looking at all these colors it starts to make you blind.

marcolo- How is it going?

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 10:07AM
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My favorite yellow is Ben Moore Safari in the affinity line but I am not sure if it is vintage-y. It is a very easy going gold-yellow and seems to have different undertones in various lights.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 12:40PM
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I've heard other good things about Safari, but have never seen it. Our painter (who didn't paint our cabs) said he liked the color of our cabinets and that he had the same color. However, he said he had Safari (and we don't). I wonder if they are similar or not? : )

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 12:59PM
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I have the full Affinity fan deck. I'll have to hold the Safari chip up to the cabinets. Fishies, I wonder if the difference between Vellum/Barley comes down to trim color? We have SW Pure White, SW Creamy walls, and strong afternoon sun through the French doors. You have BM Mascapone, right? And a greige-ier wall color?

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 1:04PM
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I painted two old cab doors one with Barley and one with Vellum and 90% of the time could not tell them apart. I called BM and their formulas are the same (equal in all parts) but Vellum had double of everything (If I am remembering correctly). The guy on the phone also said he could not see any difference between the two.
If I had to specify a difference I would say that in some lighting, the Vellum looked a bit browner/deeper but only by a hair if at all.

Yes, I have Mascarpone and my walls are Elephant Tusk. I don't think it is greige but could be wrong. Our kitchen faces southeast and gets LOTS of sun. : )

    Bookmark   March 3, 2013 at 1:34PM
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