What do you think? Daughter's Ex boyfriend won't leave her alone.

believerNovember 24, 2008

In an earlier post "How to cope with life's difficult moments?" I mentioned that my DD20 had broken up with her BF of 2 1/2 yrs. and how I felt about the man's unfortunate childhood. Well.....this is what transpired last Friday night at about 10:30 pm or so......

DD20 was working and DH/SF and I were finishing a movie. All the kids were out of the house for the night and it was nice and quiet. Then the phone rings. It was DD and she was nearly hysterical. She had gotten a call at work from a man that said that her EXBF was at the emergency room and she needed to get there right away. He would not give any other info. She calls me and comes home and I take her to the hospital. Of course we are thinking that he has had a car accident, tried to take his life, is hanging on by a tread and at the very least hurt pretty badly. I am driving rather fast, not much traffic on the streets, because we want to get there before he dies, right?......She runs into the emergency room, I am in hot pursuit and low and behold who is sitting in the waiting room, as pretty as you please but EXBF! He claims to not know why she is there. I listen to him for a moment and then go up to the desk and ask if he had been admitted into the er and if anyone there had called. No to both questions....in fact he just got there.

By this time the two of them are outside talking. He tells her someone found him in his car, it was carbon monoxide and if the person hadn't found him he would still be there.

I stood there for just a few seconds and then went to the car. I knew if I opened my mouth I was probably going to get arrested just for the language that would scream out of me. DD walked away from him shortly after that, as he was still talking and got in the car. She said "Drive mom, just drive."

As we were driving to the hospital she had called his best friend who didn't know anything about it and of course wasn't friendly to her since she did the breaking up. On the way home she called him again and told him basically to get his friend some help, that she couldn't help him and wanted to be left alone.

She goes back to work, I go into the house and tell DH/SF. He is really pissed. He calls Exbf and tells him not to contact SD again or he would call the police. EXBF gives him an entirely different story about what caused the carbon monoxide poisoning. It happened at a friends house, he was messing with a furnace, someone found him called 911, he spent 72 hours in the hospital. Blah, blah, blah. Nothing adds up.

Even after being told by SD to leave SD alone EXBF text messages her in the middle of the night, leaves hear a 7 paragraph email with the story that he told DH and last night showed up at her job. I tell DH/SF and I don't know if he will call the police tonight or not.

It amounts to stalking if you ask me given the fact that EX has been told soooo many times to leave DD alone and he goes out of his way to contact her. I've always thought that he was full of @#$% and DD knows that but I couldn't stop them from seeing one another. He did some time in the city jail about a 1 1/2 years ago because he was managing a hotel and some money came up missing. His story was too much for me to buy and evidently the police thought so to because he was going to be prosecuted for it. He cut a deal, pleaded no contest and did 3 months or so in jail. It was very hard to see DD go through it but she stick by him. During that time she and I had some heart to hearts and I was able to talk her out of marrying him after he got out and was also able to present the case for her being too young to have to deal with all of this crap. She was 19 he was 30.

Anyway....I have a feeling that it isn't over. He told DD and DH/SF that he had never had anyone look at him the way that I had looked at him. If he thinks looks can kill he'd better watch out for my sharp tongue. Seriously though, I know I have to keep my mouth shut so that it all rests on his shoulders. I'll see what hubby wants to do when he gets home. I think we should at least contact the police and see what our options are. Perhaps a little visit from them would cause him to rethink whether or not contact DD is wise.

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I was thinking "ok, he's a little distressed, he's young, doesn't know how to handle his girlfriend breaking up with him, not really a big deal, but could be something to worry about if this kind of behavior continues..."

Then I got to the "...She was 19 he was 30"

I nearly bit my tongue off.

This is a case of delayed development. He is way too old to be manipulating her like that. She is way too young to be dealing with these kinds of personal problems.

Any man who is 30 years old pulling stunts like that is not mature enough to be dating, let alone any daughter of anyone I know and care about.

I would be very cautious. Like you said, keep your mouth shut. Let the DD handle this, because otherwise it may be seen as you interfered and this may backfire entirely.

Getting a TRO is an option, but it does very little except have something on record in case something goes bad. But many people are injured or killed (not to scare you!) even though they have a TRO. It's not really protection. And unfortunatly, mental/emotional abuse usually is difficult to prove.

Notify her work. Get her to have a buddy system no matter where she goes so there is a witness. Have her communicate with him only through communications devices where the communication can be tracked, (text, email) so there is a trace of her saying "leave me alone" and him responding with whatever crazyness he puts out.

I had a boyfriend who wouldn't leave me alone, called, showed up at school, broke into my car to leave notes and flowers. It was really scary. Got a TRO. He kept it up. After 6 months or so he stopped. But three years later he showed up again. Kind of a continuous back-of-the-mind sort of thing.

I'd be scared too. I'll be thinking of you and your daughter.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 4:07PM
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silver....thanks for your response....I have tried to offer just enough advice for DD, during this relationship, as to not set myself up to be the reason they stayed together. I didn't want to push them together. She broke up with him last year at this time but after a week he wore her down and she agreed to give it a another try. I believe now she sees every thing for what it is.

I told her to make arrangements at work that should he return she can go into a back room until he leaves. Her boss and co-workers are aware of the situation. The buddy system is a great idea. I'll talk to her about it.

He is immature for his age...I let her know early on that there must be a reason why he isn't with someone his own age.....I didn't shove it all down her throat because I didn't want to give either of the any reason to blame me for their relationship not working out. Know she knows.

We will be watchful.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 4:27PM
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I hope you're right. It sounds like you've got it under control enough not to be taking it all on yourself. I know from personal experience how difficult it can be when parents get involved in personal relationships. As much as your daughter knows you love her, outside influences can twist her logic around to making you the bad guy.

I just can't get over the age 30 thing. WAY too old for her. I know some do it, and it works out sometimes, but he'd have to be really mature, as would she, in order for it to be healthy. And usually, if he's really mature, he's not dating a woman 11 years his junior. No offense to your DD. And, I'd imagine when she's 30 she'll look at 19 year olds and think "what was that boyfriend thinking, they're so young, I was so young at 19".

Best best best of thoughts to you and yours.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 4:41PM
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She is pretty mature for her age, in some areas. She has helped him get on a good financial plan, he was jumping from job to job and had nothing. We sold him a car, on a payment plan and he screwed us on that but DH and I decided to forgive it and learn from it. We were never ok with the age difference but I felt I was walking a slippery slope with it and didn't want her to run off with him or forgo her education so I worked hard at keeping her close. Even though not long ago I threatened to toss her out because of her housekeeping skills I'm sure that had it come down to that I would not have been able to.

I have talked to SD10 about it and let her know that should she see him or should he call that she is not to talk to him but get DH or I right away.

I will instruct DD that she should have her cell phone dialed to 911 when she has to leave school or work alone and or it is dark out. I will also ask her to email him and state that she wants no further contact from him, either to her or her family. That way there will be a record of that. I got a creepy feeling today, as I was driving to pick up SD10. It came to my mind that the best way to hurt my daughter was to hurt me. I'm watching to many TV movies I think.

If you read the other post you can see that he comes from a sad and unstable background. We were always very nice to him, taking him out for dinner on his birthday, giving him birthday and Christmas gifts and such but he didn't have an open door policy to our home. I felt bad that he had no family but didn't want to make him such a part of ours that should things go south he would feel he was loosing his family all over again.....What a mess.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 6:24PM
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If I was DD I would also change my email address or at least set it to bounce all his messages, change my phone number, possibly even change your phone number to an unlisted one... a real PITA but if he's going to keep stalking her it may be the only way.
Definitely let the police know, as silver suggests have a buddy system at work, NEVER be alone.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 6:29PM
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Tonight DD received an email from a woman friend (she is married)of EXBF. She says that she hasn't been able to get a hold of him and does my DD know if he is alright. DD responds by saying that he must be since he showed up at her job last night and he was fine then. DD asked me what else to tell her. I said to include the email addresses of EX's buddies and that if she needed any info on him to contact them because she was not opening any more emails from her or anyone else concerning EX. Also, that DD did not want to be contacted by her again.....What the heck? I have a feeling it isn't over yet. We have not called the police yet. If tomorrow brings more contact I will want them notified. I will suggest a new email address for her. She isn't going to open any thing from him or any one he knows after this. We have caller ID. I don't want to change our number just yet since I have had it for 10 years but should he continue this I will rethink that.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2008 at 10:39PM
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Over night DD received another email from yet another woman friend of EX. I was disappointed that she opened it but it does supply more evidence should we need to call the police. I do wonder though if EX isn't having these woman do this so that it wouldn't be his responsibility should we contact the police. This email called my daughter all kinds of horrible names.

Last night I ask DD..."So....next time Mom has misgivings about someone or questions what you are being told you are going to listen to Mom.....right?" DD slowly shut my bedroom door and whispered...."Yes Mom." The look on her face was really cute. I just love that girl so much!!!!!!

    Bookmark   November 25, 2008 at 12:50PM
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His behavior was stalking and do not wait to file a police report about it. Document the problem now.

I hope your daughter listens to you and even more importantly develops the sense of who is safe for herself.

My poor sister in law has been stalked and the behavior does not get better. She has ended up with men who have stalked her over and over. It is a matter of how much she valued her self that she let them into her life again and again. They can be charming one moment and violent the next.

I hope your daughter is scared by this situation and respects her own value more now.

Even restraining orders and moving are not perfect solutions when the stalker gets bold. That he would use resources like the ER makes him quite bold as a manipulator already. Very scary.

Please seek some self defense courses in your area for your daughter as well. They can help in developing that sense of self value and make her less like a good target for this behavior.

I was stalked when I first entered college. I dated a guy who I later realized was dangerous and manipulative. (He lied about his very name.)

As I tried to break off contact he became manipulative, threatening to hurt himself if I did not do as he said. He called profusely after being told not to. He waited outside of dormitories and tried to get information from my roommate. He grabbed me physically and tried to force me to go with him. I got away but it continued with calls.

I threatened to call the police and that was a slightly better deterent. I only found out later that he had been booted out of his last college for attempted rape. My calling the police would have resulted in his being kicked out of school he was only allowed in 'on probation'. Scary. I found out later that he was looking to do to other young women the same thing he did to me. Any opportunity would have been a good one to him.

Making myself not a good target would have been the very best defense.

Call the police and discuss the situation sooner rather than later even if you think he is backing off. He could have a angry or drunken moment and feel that is the time to punish your daughter for 'rejecting' him. Talk to the police asap. Get her a self defense course. It is good her co workers know but it is not enough.

If he is having others email her or posing as others himself the police need to know that also. The man is stirred up and obsessing and blaming your daughter. It doesn't even matter about what just that she is a focus for his stalking behavior and obsession.

Here is a link to an on line defense resource it has a section on stalking but the pyramid of personal safety is where I would start... It should work in one click at the bottom of the page but if not here is the text http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/pyramid.html

Here is a link that might be useful: No nonsense self defense

    Bookmark   November 26, 2008 at 1:32PM
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yes he certainly asks these other women to email DD. or maybe it is even he himself pretends. file the police report now. just to be on a safe side. good luck. what a mess...

    Bookmark   November 26, 2008 at 2:40PM
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The police have been called....DD comes home from school today and is on the phone with ex. I was resting and was woken up to a very upset "Mom, where are you?" She comes into my room and tells him to leave her alone, we are calling the police. She then tells me that last night he followed her to a friends house and has told her exactly what she was wearing and what part of a conversation was between her and the friend. She is on the phone with him while telling me this. She hurriedly goes to her room, gets ready for work and gets in her car. As she is leaving she is telling me to call the police......she received 7 calls to her cell last night while at her friends that were "restricted" calls.....the caller had their number blocked.

I go by the jerk's apartment to get his address so I can give it to the police and hopefully see his car so I can get the license # as well. He lives just a couple of blocks away so I thought I could just run over there quickly. I got a feeling that I should go to her job ( also in the area ) and see if he was following her to work. No sign of him, I go home. I called the police....officer asks my daughter's name and all I get out is her first name and officer says..."She has called 911. An officer is on his way to talk to her." I hang up the phone and it rings. It is DD and she is crying. She says to lock the doors. Ex was just at her job and made a scene and she called the police.

I want to call her but I'll let her catch her breath and settle down a bit. She'll probably call me on her break. I heard a siren just a little while ago and feel sick to my stomach. She works until 1 a.m. so it will be a long night. I also called my son at his job and told him that if ex shows up there not to talk to him. He said he would call security if he saw him. He works at the mall.

I'm trying not get to the point of being really scared but I'm not doing very well. I'm so glad she lives at home right now.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2008 at 8:46PM
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I had a simular experience with my duahghter the first summer after her first year of college, only we didn't even know this person. She had met him and a friend of his at a local restraunt and she and the friened with her gave the guys there phone numbers (she and her friend learned a valuable lesson).
The next night we were all awakened in the middle of the night to sounds like someone was trying to break our glass screen door on the front door. We ran in to see this guy litterally trying to break down our glass door wanting to see my duaughter...only thing he didn't call her by her name. He used a name of someone we never even heard of.We knew he was either high, or mentally unstable. That was the first scare. The next day he came back over, rang the bell, ( I wan't home) and her "tall" brother answered the door and asked him what he wanted. This time he used her correct name. My son told him to get out (not actually those words) and not to ever come back. Thus the state of a long story of stalking and fear. To make this short this is what happeded. He lied to the police about his name. The police said if she pressed charges he would only spend one night in jail and that would make him mad. He was a mental patient, and I took my daughter out of state for a month before she had to leave again for college. Plus, when she went outside to get in her car to leave for college he was parked down the street. We escorted her back to school. About a month after school started an article appeared in the paper saying he was arrested for impersonating his brother who was in the service in Germany, (apparently forged several documents and who knows what all), and was sentenced to a prison term. Plus a young woman was abudted and raped just before he started staliking my duaghter, by two men who she described as looking and sounding like these guys. The car even matched but no proof. We were lucky, but...I also left the state with her to protect her. As with your daughter he went to her place of employment ranting and raving, was stopped numerous times(driving) by the police whom he told they were lovers and had a child together and we were just trying to break them up.
So, I know how helpless you feel. Tell her to be very careful. You both take care and good luck!

    Bookmark   November 27, 2008 at 3:06PM
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organic brice.....excellent web site!!! Thank you so much. We will be rereading this over and over again until it becomes second nature.

I appreciate so much all of your comments. Last night I was nearly ill. I found out that ex has a key to our house. It was given to him when we were on vacation last summer and whenever DD asked him to return it he could never remember where it was. We are changing the locks tomorrow and have figured out to to barricade the front door until then. DD has to work tonight. She works at Blockbuster so shortly after she leaves for work DH will be going to rent a movie.

I talked to her briefly last night after she got home from work and let her know that I would consider him capable of anything. Murder/suicide included. I instructed her to behave as though she was being watched 24 hours a day. I bought her an air horn that she can carry in her purse and will be getting her a whistle to wear around her neck. I will be buying spot lights to put in the front yard since her room is accessible from the side and front through the basement. I am leaving the porch light on all night now. We have a very aggressive dog so he will add to our alarm system. I will be looking into security cameras as well. I am going to visit our neighbors and give them each a card with ex's description and the make and model of his car. Our next door neighbor is a State Patrolman. I will also be buying locks for our privacy fence gates. We already but a board in our sliding glass doors. I am hoping for snow so that any footprints will be easily noticed. A call to the women's crisis center will be made tomorrow. Today is Thanksgiving so Friday will be the day to get things done.

I just now spoke with DD and she said that she will go through her room when she gets home from work but she thinks that there are a couple of things missing. A picture of the two of them that was hanging on her wall and a duffel bag that had things that ex had given her that was in her closet. If you remember from a earlier subject, her room is a mess so these things could have just been tossed in the corner. She says she doesn't remember taking the picture down but she isn't sure. I can't believe that he has gotten in the house but I don't know for sure. If these things are missing then we will call the police again. I guess last night they told her that they couldn't do anything until he did something against the law. Until there is a restraining order against him he isn't breaking the law to be around her. I think he is going to give us a lot of trouble.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2008 at 4:42PM
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You may also find that if you have given him a key he can't be charged with breaking and entering, or whatever it's called there, but he may be able to be charged with theft. Get the restraining order.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2008 at 8:37PM
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I would like to suggest you find out what him breaking a restraining order in your state will actually mean in terms of pun

I would suggest you find out what a restraining order will do for you in your state. Like I said in my post earlier, I lived in a state where all he would get would be one night in jail and the police told me that would just make him mad. So I would check. Good Luck to you and I am glad you have a dog to alert you, I just hope he doesn't think he's ok since he has been in your home previously. Take care.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2008 at 10:00PM
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I am glad the site is useful for you. The most important aspect of the whole situation is for your daughter to not listen to any sob story he concocts. She herself is the key to her protection. Falling for any reason he gives for her to see him, meet him somewhere or continue contact would be the most dangerous thing she could do.

Even if he contacts her 200 times and she only seems to weaken and listen to him once it will be taken as encouragement by nutjob and he will then assume that he is back 'in' with her and it only takes trying 200 times to get a sympathetic response. His behavior will not be extinguished if she gives him any way in emotionally.

If you think she might be vulnerable to that with him or someone else like him later I'd recommend her reading Boundaries by Drs. Cloud and Townsend and In Sheeps Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People by George Simon.

Your physical protections of your home and yard are good measures. The most important part though is your daughter understanding and maintaining her right to say No without feeling guilty or responsible for him. Without that stalking can turning into a situation where she imagines she might save him from himself, explain the effects of his behavior to him in a way that will make stop and be a better/healthier person or any number of very misguided situations that result in her getting hurt worse.

Those are the real battle ground if you feel he might be able to turn her thinking and make her see all the trauma as just a measure of how passionate he is/was for her. It sounds awful but it does happen, especially if the young woman is unsure of her own worth and her right to not be stalked.

I am hoping she is not prone to being manipulated but it is a hard situation to go through. She may need counseling support to really get beyond it.

Scary that he may have been in your home. Keep the police in the loop and use that for the restraining order. He certainly didn't have permission to come in and take things, right?

Don't stop doing things you all enjoy or live in fear from now on because of this. Do what you can and don't give fear a permanent place in your life because of this. If you live near a metropolitan area their are probably resources in your area that you can hook into that will offer an extra layer of education and support. Are their any domestic violence resources near by? You may not think this qualifies but emotional abuse and stalking are violence and do count. They can sometimes offer free legal counsel too which might help in seeing any safety options she has that the police didn't mention.

God bless your family and keep moving in the right direction. You'll be in my prayers.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2008 at 5:08PM
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All the advice above is very good, and you should definitely take this situation as seriously as you are. I looked at your other post, and you said:

This man comes from a past that would make even the hardest heart ache. His mother committed suicide when he was 7 and his father was a monster. When CJ was 8 his dad beat him so badly that his arm was broken. A farmer found him in his field, the next morning, where his father dumped him. He was in the foster care system until he was 16. He was on his own after that. He made some poor choices along the way but now is doing fine. He has no family

Are you certain this information is true? Did he tell you all of this, or did you see actual records of it? From what you have shared about him, I would not be surprised if none of that were true at all.

Also, organic_brice is spot on: Even if he contacts her 200 times and she only seems to weaken and listen to him once it will be taken as encouragement by nutjob and he will then assume that he is back 'in' with her and it only takes trying 200 times...

With his type of personality, this is very true. Even negative attention is viewed as attention, and he will view it as encouragement to continue contacting her. She should not respond in any way to any attempt at contact, not even to say "Leave me alone."

You, your DH, your son, your friends....should also not speak to him. He will construe that as you "keeping him away from her even though she wants to be with him".

Do continue to tell every person you know about this. Your DD's and your family's good friends, acquaintances, coworkers, your mail carrier, the cashier at the drugstore who knows you/her... stalkers are very creative and can fool someone who knows you or your DD. He can get information about your DD from someone who doesn't know what's going on. In addition, they can be a valuable resource for YOU, by letting you know if he has contacted them or has made comments that you should be alerted to. You don't have to go into detail with everyone, just that your DD is being stalked and that they should give him no information whatsoever, and to contact you or the police with anything concerning. You want to form as complete a web of protection around your DD and your family as possible.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2008 at 9:12AM
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Oh Dear! Thankfully, I have no experience with this, so I have no advice to offer -- only good wishes.

But Weed's suggestions sound really good to me. Involving others to help protect your daughter sounds like a good safety net. She should never be alone as long as this guy is out and about and still obsessing, and the more people who are involved in protecting her, the safer she will be.

And the point about actually checking out his back-story also sounds like really good advice. It certainly might be true, but if it's not -- it ups the ante to a whole new degree.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2008 at 1:47PM
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So much has happened since my last post. I am not emotionally capable of posting it all at this time in detail. I will say that we have had the police at our home, found out about more lies and had EX take a gun from a friend's father. Suicide was threatened, daughter caved in and talked to him. I can't get a protective order until she agrees not to talk to him again. She has not met with him.

I am an emotional wreck. I cry off and on all day long and am worn out. I am angry, scared and ill over this. DD said she told him that he needed to get help and that if he would leave her alone for this week she would check in with him on Sunday. His friends are helping him to get things set up and are aware of what a mess he is now and apologizing to DD for not believing her and supporting her. She told me that was the last time and then she would talk to him and then she would change her number. I expect all hell to break loose after this call. For those of you who pray please do so, for those of you don't....start now....LOL...just kidding.....will check in when it starts to get hot.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 12:29AM
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I'm so sorry, believer. I can't imagine going through this. PLEASE call a women's shelter and ask if one of the counselors there will meet with her. They can tell her that all of the things he is doing are CLASSIC and DANGEROUS behavioral patterns of a stalker/abuser. Calling him was a HUGE mistake. The suicide threat was just that, an empty threat. They keep upping the ante to get their target/victim to contact them. He did it and it worked. She SHOULD NEVER CALL HIM EVER AGAIN. Her safety is even MORE in jeopardy now. She has taught him that if he behaves with even more outrageous and dangerous behavior, she will "be back in his life". To him, they are in a relationship again. A "phone call on Sunday" will NOT be the end of things. I know you know this. SHE needs to fully understand this.

He obtained a gun. Although he might not have it any more, he can get another one, or some other type of weapon. I am not telling you anything you don't already know -- he could very well use it on her. I'm so sorry. It might be time to get her out of town. Do you have any relatives or friends out of state that she could stay with? If so, do it. And NOBODY except you and your immediate family should know where she is. NOBODY. Things have a way of getting out.

I repeat: SHE SHOULD NEVER SPEAK TO HIM AGAIN OR WRITE HIM OR TEXT HIM. NO MESSAGES THROUGH HIS FRIENDS. ZERO CONTACT. No matter WHAT he says or does (i.e., counseling) it is a RUSE to continue "being in a relationship" with her. She MUST understand that every time she gives in, she is putting herself in extreme danger. With every contact, he will get worse. More desperate, more unbalanced. PLEASE have her talk to someone who is experienced with these situations.

I am so VERY sorry and wish you all strength.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 7:16AM
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P.S. Do not consider sending her to your other SD. Ex BF knows where she lives, and will show up there. By sending her to a relative, I meant a relative that Ex BF does not know about, if there are any. Otherwise, send her to a family friend, and put her on a plane to get there. You do not know if he is watching, and could follow a car.

I know my comments may sound over the top, but better to be over the top safe now rather than later when things have gotten even worse. Please keep us updated, we are all worried.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 7:33AM
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I called the domestic violence office today and gave them a brief synopsis of our situation. I then told DD that she WAS going to speak with them today and she would tell them EVERYTHING. She says she just knows everything is going to be fine. I told her I just know that she is going to be killed......now why should she be anymore right then I am. I can't believe that she is so blind to this.

I have no place to send her. My only family is in Michigan and she does not know them. She is in school here and the school is open to the public....her job places her in a fish bowl....she is a sitting duck.

Should I talk to his friends? I don't know what to do.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 12:32PM
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What Weed said, every word.

Tell her that she is putting her family in danger too, not just herself.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 12:45PM
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Progress to report!!!!!!

I let DD know that if she didn't go to the Domestic Violence Center today and come home with papers for a protection order that she had a counselor help her fill out I was going to shut off her cell phone. It just happens to still be in my name. She is getting ready as I type. I certainly hope that she will drop this "everything is going to be fine" BS and break down while talking to this counselor. I realize that involving a 3rd party is a good idea so that she doesn't think that mom is just being a mom, if you know what mean.

Thanks again to all of you for listening and offering such helpful advice. I am pleased that she is going but know that we are far from free of this man. I did call his pastor and give him the new number that I had for him. His pastor said that he would be happy to call him. I do not know if I mentioned before that when ex had DD come to the emergency room he said that his pastor was on his way to pick him up. I called the pastor to tell him of other events and the pastor said he hadn't spoken to ex in 4 months.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 3:15PM
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NO - do NOT talk to his friends. He will consider THAT a "relationship" with your daughter too, twisted as that sounds.

Will write more later.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 6:11PM
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Okay weed30....I won't...LOL. Thank you. It was a fleeting thought. Tonight is peaceful. SD and I decorated the Christmas tree and I can hear DD laughing on the phone with a girlfriend of hers. She did go and talk to a counselor and brought home papers to fill out. The counselor did not tell her to not call him on Sunday though. I don't get it. DD said that the counselor listened mostly. I did not get the impression that DD is any more concerned that before she went.......We all need to fly under the radar so to speak....don't worry, I have thought better about calling any one.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2008 at 8:54PM
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Well then, that counselor did not do a thorough job. Whatever it takes to convince your DD that she is in danger, do it. The reason she thinks everything is going to be fine is the simple fact that she is young and "invincible", and is thinking about the situation from a normal person's point of view. He is NOT normal, and as you know, she does not understand that. Maybe you could get a book about stalkers. Linked below is just one that I found.

Here is a link that might be useful: clicky

    Bookmark   December 4, 2008 at 7:45AM
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Are you sure the counselor really did not advise against calling him Sunday? Maybe your daughter just wants to call him one last time and is not being honest about what the counselor said?

    Bookmark   December 4, 2008 at 8:44AM
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She may feel important from all of the special attention too. She will figure out eventually that it is not a compliment or helpful for her to play along with this.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2008 at 5:25PM
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weed30....the book looks great. I think I will get it. Thank you.

mom2emall...I suspect the same about what the counselor may have advised. I would be really ticked if DD wanted to talk to him one last time. This isn't a damn game. I hope that is not the case but I don't know for sure.

brice...She may feel important but I wouldn't classify her as that type....again I could be wrong. You are right, she will eventually figure it out.

I'm sure that she is having a lot of emotions running through her right now. There were times, as in even abusive relationships, where her ex treated her well. She probably feels stupid to some degree, gullible, ill, hurt, angry...I could go on and on. If she insists on calling him I am going to ask that she do so with me in the room and him on speaker phone. I think she will resist this but I will ask anyway. I am bracing for a back lash following Sunday. I had a more calm day today. Yesterday and the day before were really hard for me. I am so tired of crying.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2008 at 11:52PM
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I would pay to have her cell phone number changed. Also, can she go visit an aunt or somebody out of state for a while?

It's essential that she stop contacting him. It encourages him and it teaches him how extreme he needs to be to capture her attention.

If you tell someone not to call you and you hang up on the next 20 of their phone calls, but talk to them on the 21st phone call, you've just taught them to call you 21 times if they want to talk to you. To unteach them, you have to ignore their calls about 100 times.

Sounds like this guy has a personality disorder. Doesn't care about being caught in lies, feels any attention is better than no attention, etc... Has no impulse control and is acting out.

Very scary.

Please keep us updated.

    Bookmark   December 5, 2008 at 7:32PM
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Any news, Believer?

    Bookmark   December 8, 2008 at 4:19PM
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Hi sweeby and all of you who have expressed such concern and given such wonderful advice on this issue.

My daughter did call the ex yesterday morning. I had asked if she would let me hear the conversation on speaker phone but she did not want that. I can understand why. I was just afraid that if he made any threats or went nuts on her that she would not have a witness.

Since I no longer believe a word that the ex says I do not know for sure how truthful, if at all, his side of the conversation was. His input was something like this....He was sorry for the things that he had done since the break up. He knew that he had said and done things during their relationship that made it difficult for my daughter to stay in a relationship with him so he really wasn't blind sided by the break up once he calmed down and thought about things. He said that he had seen a counselor twice last week. (that I find hard to believe) He said he knew that he had a lot of issues that he had to deal with regarding his past. He asked her if she wanted to keep a door open so that she would feel that she could talk to him if she ever needed him for anything. (funny way of putting it for HIM to have a way to stay in her life)....She said no. She told him that they both needed to get on with their lives and would not be able to do so if they stayed in contact with each other or if they thought that they would communicate. That is about the jest of it. No flare ups on his part.

My daughter said that she had deleted all of the numbers and emails from her phone and computer that had anything to do with ex. She has been at work all day today so I don't if she has changed her number yet but she told me that she was going to.

I had a very jumpy weekend....DH was out of town and every bump or thump or shadow startled me. I am not that type of person. Not the scary type. I usually instill fear into others not the other way around. LOL! My nerves are shot and I have not felt at all well over the last few days. My blood sugar is unstable.....I have had past my limit of drama and tears and stress.

She is planning on going through with the do not contact order still. I am sleeping with one eye open so to speak. I will not be lulled into a false sense of security but am thankful that we haven't had an upheaval for a week now.

Brice....I emailed the wife half of the website that you posted and she emailed me back. How nice to have that connection. Thank you again.

All is quiet on the mid-western front. Thank You all, from the bottom of my heart for all of your concern. I am glad that I stayed here....:o)

    Bookmark   December 8, 2008 at 6:52PM
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Good. I know you can't (shouldn't) trust him, but from what you related, he sounded rational, which is certainly about as good as it could possibly be. I sincerely hope that he was truthful about the counselor and that the 'rational' behavior continues.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2008 at 9:21PM
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Whew!!! I was worried. Glad to know it's smoothing out a bit for you.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2008 at 3:40PM
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I will not be lulled into a false sense of security

Good - you should definitely keep your guard up. This is very predictable behavior for a person like him. Please continue to be vigilant, and keep a very close eye on your daughter. Have a talk with her about his behavior and its purpose, which is to get her comfortable with him again, so they can resume their "relationship". Be certain to drill into her head that she should cease ALL contact. He will likely try to get her to meet him somewhere "just to talk", "just to formally say goodbye", "just so he can see her one last time", "just so....." whatever. People like him don't just suddenly "understand their mistakes" and become normal people.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2008 at 9:48PM
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There has been no sign of him but then it has only been since Sunday that they spoke. DD assures me that she is not speaking to him again. Before the last conversation his friends tried to get her to meet with him and she told them that she was very uncomfortable with that and wanted them to stop urging her to do so. She has cut off all contact with his friends also. I would be thrilled if this is it but not surprised at all if he should make an appearance later on. I'm sure in his mind that she will come to her senses if he just gives her some time. I am beginning to see her spend time with friends and have fun. She hasn't had much of that since she let him into her life. He has brought a lot of stress and drama into her life giving her things to deal with that, at her age she shouldn't have to.

I am watching and will continue to remind her of how important it is to assume that things are not as they appear to be as of yet. I do not know that she should let her guard down for quite a time if ever where he is concerned. All he needs to do is to hear that she is seeing someone months down the line to set him off. I told her to fly under the radar from now on. No postings on my space and so on. She just needs to disappear as much as possible so that she can get her life back.

This generation seems to think that it's okay to advertise their lives for all to see. Big mistake.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2008 at 11:17PM
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Believer, I wish you and your daughter all the best, and sincerely hope she realizes how negative her life had become with him. Seeing her friends and having fun again should make that very clear to her. Victims of controlling relationships don't realize how wrong things really were until they are able to live a normal life again. I still think she should do some reading about controlling men and stalkers. The more understanding she has, the better she will be able to protect herself now and in the future. She probably doesn't want to do this right now, and just enjoy her life, but if a book is laying around, maybe she'll pick it up sometime.

I agree about people these days advertising their lives, especially young people who think they are invincible.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2008 at 8:07AM
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Well I just got the shock of my life.....I was busy posting on the step parent site, arguing about Christmas gifts and step kids and such and the door bell rings. I have blocked out the little window in our door because I don't want people to be able to look into the house and see the tree and all the gifts. I didn't think to move the paper that blocked the window to see who was outside. I figured that it was mailman or ups. It was the EX boyfriend!!!!!.....I shook my head and said "NO"....he said "_____ just a minute, just a second. Can't we talk for just a second." I said " NO....NO" and shut the door. I watched him walk down the street. If he drove over here he parked around the block. Before he came to the door I had 3 calls from a private number that I did not answer.

I called my daughter and she said that he had dropped something off of hers at school. She would have been there except that she switched with someone and left earlier.

I was afraid the peace wasn't going to last. He knows that during the day I am home alone.

I will be going to the court house in the morning.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2008 at 1:55PM
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Go now. Protect yourself. Godspeed.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2008 at 2:02PM
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I really don't want to frighten you any more than you already are, but you should read Ann Rule's Mortal Danger. Not that I want you terrified, but it will give you many more clues as to what these guys are capable of and how they get around the family to achieve their goals.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2008 at 2:37PM
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Listen to Weed!

"Victims of controlling relationships don't realize how wrong things really were until they are able to live a normal life again."

This is so true! When I finally left my verbally and emotionally abusive marriage, I started having wonderful dreams about open windows, clear skies and warm breezes, and life suddenly became a wonderful adventure.

And yes - Get your butt to court to get an injunction. (Now YOU have grounds - not just your daughter.)

    Bookmark   December 10, 2008 at 3:39PM
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Don't wait to take legal action. Call the police. Being a peeping tom is a crime in itself, seriously. That fellow is scary and his behavior totally inappropriate.

Anyone peeping in your window is grounds for calling the cops ASAP.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2008 at 3:51PM
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brice....I don't think he peeped. He just knew I was home alone.

sweeby....you're right. Now it is me, not just my daughter.

missd....going to see if B & N have the book right now.

Now I don't feel safe during the day at home....great.

Silver...still love ya. Just having very screwy day.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2008 at 4:41PM
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I got a call while I was out on my cell. It was the F faces pastor. Pastor says that F face wanted him to call me since I wouldn't speak to him today. He wanted to apologize, return a book and let me know that he was doing better since I had tried to call him to see how he was. I told the pastor that I never called him. The pastor said he didn't want to be the go between but he would if I wanted him to. I said I didn't. I told him that I was afraid of F face and that I was seeking a do not contact order. I told the pastor that I did not want to hear about F face again. Nothing. Not how he was, not what he was doing, nothing. End of call.......I called DD and told her about the call and she said that the book was in the cat crate along with a lot of other things.

To top all of this off I have to have a root canal redone on Monday. Do I win a prize or what????????? I'm glad he doesn't know that I'm ringing bells Friday night. If he would happen to come to that store I'm outta there. Sorry Salvation Army, you're going to have to make it with me!

missd....I got the book....I'm not going to sleep after reading it am I?

    Bookmark   December 10, 2008 at 7:59PM
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Wow. Now he is lying to the Pastor to reach your daughter. THIS is exactly why I mentioned earlier to let EVERYONE you know, even store clerks, about what's going on. Stalkers are cunning, and use very simple techniques to gain access or connection with their victims. In this case, a perfectly plausible comment that you had called to see how he was doing. D*mn. I'm really sorry you are going through this.

In addition to the book I linked before, this one is really good....I read it some years ago. I feel it is a must read for virtually everyone, because it addresses a fundamental "gift" we humans possess, but mostly ignore. Especially women, who are taught from the earliest age to "be nice".

The Gift of Fear

The funny thing is that while it's certainly not the reason I read the book, I gained some good insight that I used while interviewing prospective employees. Seriously, I was interviewing and the person said something that on the surface was innocuous, but because I'd read the book, it was actually disturbing. Needless to say, they didn't get the job!

Here is another that I have not read, but looks like it could be good:

Safety for Stalking Victims

And here is a quote that your daughter needs to memorize and internalize:

".....intermittent response is most likely to INCREASE stalking activity--as in slot machine payoffs."

NO CONTACT must be her mantra, especially since at his age, he has had a number of years to perfect his technique. Trust me, she's not the first.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2008 at 9:31PM
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Believer, I want you to ready the whole book, but please start with the story on page 315 about Angela Jaeger. If you can, have your daughter read it also. And no, you probably won't sleep but at least you will know the behaviors to look out for.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2008 at 10:22AM
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DD calls me just a few minutes ago from she school. She is in cosmetology school and I was afraid something like this was going to happen. ......She has a client that has called the school and specifically requests her for a pedicure. When the client arrives it is not a woman that DD has seen before so DD asked her how she got DD's name. The woman tells DD that she saw some one's nails and commented on them, wanting to know who did them because she wanted to see the same person. My DD told me that she has not done nails in 4 months.
.......the woman then proceeds to weave a story about a guy that she has met, pieces of his childhood story, a name that DD knows, makes comments about the guy that DD has made to him (ie personal stuff). All the while my DD is trying to change the subject by asking woman other questions. It always comes back to the guy, not sure but the woman may have called him by name. My DD said that she (DD) never responded to the woman, never acknowledged that she knew what was going on.

I told DD to go to someone at the school and tell them everything. I told her to ask if she would be allowed to tell any future people that do this that she is not allowed to have that conversation with them. There is no way to screen clients. I'll see what they tell me when I file the papers. I had wanted to get them filed by now but DD hasn't completed them. She said on the phone that she had them with her and was working on completing them, adding this latest "woman" to the list.

I had not wanted to get her biodad involved but I emailed him last night and gave him all the details. DD and EX had been to his house and I figured the EX would eventually try to contact biodad as a way of connecting with DD. I haven't heard from him yet but I'm certain that I will. He works at the city county building and may know someone that can also give us advice.

I don't think this is going to end any time soon. I'm afraid we have a live one here.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2008 at 4:31PM
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Oh No! Yes, DD NEEDS to talk to her school and have an arrangement in place so that this can't happen again.

Things would have been so much better had she been able to say "I'm sorry, but I won't be able to finish your pedicure. I'll get my supervisor to take over now" then simply walked away with no professional repercussions.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2008 at 4:49PM
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Believer, this man is psychotic. Please, please, please...find someway to get her out of there. I am sincerely worried for her, you, her family and friends.

I had a boyfriend stalk me. It was one of the scariest periods of my life. The last time he called me was on my wedding day. Goodness knows how he got the number. My dad was able to convince him I wasn't living in the area anymore.

Even so, I keep tabs on this man. I probably will for the rest of my life.

I'm screaming inside now. All my warning bells are going off. This is chicken skin. This is goosebumps on my scalp.

Agree with Sweeby. She cannot continue to make contact with anyone like this. It can be so hard in the moment, because we go into a mini-shock, but she needs to have words she can practice if and when this happens. Everyone around her needs to know of her situation.

Do you have motion sensing lights on your house?

Tape record a man's voice in case he comes to the door again, you can play the voice at him so he doesn't think you are alone.

Do you have caller ID?

Do you have a cell phone? Do you have 911 pre-programed?

Please ask the police for suggestions on keeping your family safe. You will be in my thoughts.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2008 at 5:05PM
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DD20 is home sick from school today. She was vomiting last night. Yesterday was too much for her.

I ordered mace, a personal alarm and a little thing called a "Heart Attack" for her. The "heart attack" is a little sharp heart shaped piece that you put between your fingers like you would your keys. I got myself one too.

I'm already crying today. I am on my knees over this. I am having correspondence with her father now about it. I must over the edge if I'm talking with my ex!

    Bookmark   December 12, 2008 at 10:24AM
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What about a personal alarm *noisemaker*? I'm sure they exist but don't know any brand names or even what to search for. Just the kind of thing she could carry to attract attention if she needs it... (You too.)

    Bookmark   December 12, 2008 at 11:24AM
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sweeby....I found a great site that carries all of that stuff....I ordered one last night. Thanks.

    Bookmark   December 12, 2008 at 11:29AM
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I think you should buy her a gun and teach her how to use it or find somebody who can. If this guy is intent on murder/suicide, a noisemaker isn't going to stop him. I know some will think that is extreme, but I would want that protection if it were me.

    Bookmark   December 12, 2008 at 2:04PM
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No gun!!! Get a taser! If she missed and he got it from her and he turned the gun on her...

With a taser, not much chance of missing, and no chance of going to jail for self defense.

    Bookmark   December 12, 2008 at 2:33PM
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Everything still OK Believer?

    Bookmark   December 17, 2008 at 11:06AM
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Yes, please check in. We are concerned and hope thing are OK. I check here daily for a (hopefully good) update, I am sure that others do too.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2008 at 8:42PM
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I do too!! Let us know how it's going, alright?

    Bookmark   December 18, 2008 at 9:26PM
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Sorry ladies....I don't want to become a pain in the butt about this. I thought I'd give you all a break about it but since you asked.....(smile) here goes.....It seems that we have a day or two of quiet and then he makes himself known again. Yesterday the kids were out of school...water main in the elementary side broke and DS had finales so he was out early. We had gone to run some errands and were in the turn lane to turn across traffic. It was slick out and I was watching the tires on of the car coming at me....they jerked and slid...so I said to DS..."Did you see that guy?" DS says...."Mom, that was CJ. He had his turn signal on and was going to turn on our street until he saw us.....he waved.".....So he was going to drive by the house but ran into me instead and changed his mind.

Last night my DH answers the phone and it's CJ's apartment manager. He wants to know if we know how to get a hold of him because he hasn't paid his rent. The manager says that CJ has been asking the churches in town to pay his rent for quite sometime and now they have cut him off. The manager is trying to serve him with an eviction notice but can't catch him at home or if he is home he isn't answering. I told DH that even if DD still has CJ's friend's number's I don't want her to give them to the manager because I don't want her to have any thing to do with happens to CJ outside of our situation. I don't want him to have reason to get angry with her.

She stayed home from school today....she said that she just can't concentrate. She said that she wasn't scared but she can't focus. I asked her if she wanted to know about things like the apartment manager and she said that she needs to hear everything. I think she is going over the last 2 years in her mind and figuring out how many times he lied to her.

I haven't filed for the order yet.....she keeps having to add things to it and then, like tomorrow, when I want to go downtown, we are suppose to have up to 6 inches of snow.
I may not be able to get down there.

I am guessing that several months ago, when CJ told her that they were missing money from the front desk at the hotel where he works that they fired him. He did 3 months a year ago last spring for the same thing. Of course he said he didn't do it then and pled no contest and took a deal. Since then money has been missing twice from the last hotel he worked at. He told DD that he got a promotion and would be traveling. I asked what hotel office would be his home base when he was in town and she said none, that he wouldn't have to be in the hotel. That didn't sound right to me......So I'm wondering if he didn't get canned then.

The girls at the front desk at school know to call the police if he comes in, that is why I think he sent the girl in. DD got another email on her old account from the woman in Ca. saying that she was worried for Megan's safety now because the CJ that she is hearing from isn't the same man that she once knew. I don't know if he is behind these emails or not. I think he might be. DD said she had kept the old email open to tie up some loose ends....don't understand that but I do know that she doesn't want to hear from him. She did respond to the woman and I had a butt chewing session again, to make her understand that any word from her to his friends is like a relationship to him. I told her that she should not even mention his name to anyone.

The things I ordered haven't come yet.I'm trying to watch for the mail so that he wouldn't have the chance to go through it. I am thankful to have a nice blanket of snow around the house so that foot prints are easily seen.

My DH thinks it will end soon but I am bracing myself for a long run. I think I will want to know where he is for a long time. I'm going to talk to my neighbor, who is a state patrolman, and ask the best company to use for a background check. My DH said he didn't care if it costs $100.00 or we should know as much as we can.

My nerves have calmed down some. I did dream about it the other night though. He tapped DD on the shoulder and when she turned around he said " You'd make a really pretty dead princess." I have such compassion now for victims of crimes that I really hadn't given much thought to before. A person doesn't have the right to change you and your life like this.

I'll let you guys know either way every few days about this situation. I appreciate you being here for me. You've helped me tremendously. We have disagreed on other issues but when this one came you have all been there for me. Thank you. Hugs and kisses and for those of you who don't go for that we can just shake hands! LOL

    Bookmark   December 18, 2008 at 11:41PM
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Thanks for the update. This guy is really bad news. How did the apt. manager get YOUR phone number? I think it was not the apt. manager at all, but another ploy by the stalker. Why would the apt. manager tell you about the church thing? Maybe the stalker thinks this whole eviction/church cutting him off story will get you/your daughter to feel sorry for him.

As for the traveling/hotel story - total BS. Money has been missing at least 3 times from hotels where he worked. I work in a hotel, and if the hotel practices even the most basic proper cash handling, it is extremely easy to trace missing money. Then he gets a promotion?! No way. Even if it is a different hotel company, his references should have come back "not eligible for rehire". In addition, the only people who travel for hotels in my experience are corporate people or "opening teams". I seriously doubt he is now a member of the corporate staff, and to qualify for an opening team, you have to be an outstanding and talented employee. Do either of these sound like the stalker?....

Get that restraining order!!! Even with the snow, the busses will be running. Get down there!

A few posts up, I recommended some books. I really hope you ordered some. The Gift of Fear would be especially appropriate right now. It is not about stalkers, but has some really really good information that will be very useful to you and your daughter.

I hope your neighbor can help you too. Maybe he knows some of the local police and can get this guy's name out there more.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 7:30AM
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weed30....The order has to be notarized when DD signs it. She is at school until 5 and then works until midnight. She is in school all day tomorrow. I will call the school and see if there is a notary there. If not it has to wait until Monday.

The manager of the apartments had our number as an emergency contact. I believe it was him. The churches would not give the EX cash, they would write a check to the landlord.

While scooping snow I talked to my neighbor and she said that she would leave a note for her husband and have him call me. She said they knew several people that had been stalked and murdered.

I just called the school and they do have a notary. They are going to have DD call me and if she has the papers with her she can sign them there. If she doesn't then I will take them down to her, have them signed and go on down to the court house. I am fed up with not getting this done.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 10:28AM
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Believer - You could actually call the apartment complex manager and ask if he called your home earlier. If it wasn't, add another layer of 'devious sicko' to this guy's profile; but if it was you'll at least know how over-his-head in trouble this guy is.

Weed's hotel experiences are also right on target. I was a hotel financial controller in a former life, and the only folks who generally have access to the hotel's cash are desk clerks, night auditors, waiters, bartenders, cashiers and their direct managers. They each have 'banks' and are accountable for balancing nightly, and I don't know of any hotel that wouldn't terminate after one large or three small shortages. A front office manager or night auditor *might* be called on to travel to a sister hotel in a pinch, but NOT as a regular thing. Weed is right that only corporate people or occasionally sales managers do that -- and they don't have cash access.

If he did time, is it possible he's out on parole and that his stalking behavior is enough to get him re-incarcerated? Might be worth looking into...

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 12:09PM
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that's what i thought...is there anything one can do so he is back to jail? like any parole violations? i hope it will be over soon. what a miserable miserable situation. so sorry believer. hang in there.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2008 at 10:24PM
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Hello again.....In regards to him being put back in prison. If he actually had taken a gun from the friend's father's home and the father had reported it to the police and they would have caught him with it that would have done it. But it wasn't reported and he gave the gun to his friend.....so we were told. Up to the point of DD's last communications with his friends they have realized how messed up he is and have apologized to DD for assuming that she was to blame for things. They have enabled him greatly and what they are doing now or whether they are buying what he tells them I don't know. They certainly have been in the past and have also been victimized by him as well.

The do not contact order is being applied for today. Should he break that I assumed that there would be a chance that he would end up back in jail. Especially since he is a felon. The inmate registry does not say that he is out on parole. It only states his crime and the time served.

My neighbor, who is a state patrolman, has not called. They are having family arriving from out of town for Christmas and I am resisting calling him just yet. I will be asking for a legitimate organization to conduct a background check on the EX.

There has not been any sight of him nor word from him in a few days. That seems to be the pattern thus far. I have no idea how he will handle Christmas. DD works Christmas Eve. I an uncomfortable with that. We will have to visit her at work I think.

I have not yet received the safety items that I ordered on the 12th. I sent any email enquiring about them last night.

I don't know if I mentioned it before or not....I had a dream that EX came up to DD from behind and tapped her on the shoulder....when she turned around he said..."You would make a pretty dead princess." This along with my dental issues which are still being worked on is making it difficult for me to get my blood sugar under control. I can't get out and walk...it is -4 here today. I could do some house cleaning and that would help bring my sugar down. I slept 1 hour last night due to pain from my dental work. I went back this morning at 8:30 for more work.

I had to have a completely honest and forth coming talk with SD10 this morning about EX. She was told not to open the door for any reason and upon returning home from the dentist I saw her retrieve a package from the front porch. I got really mad at her and sent her to her room until noon. I just went in and had a heart to heart with her. We cried, we hugged and now I think she understands that she has to trust us. It is better that she understands enough to obey then to hold things back from her and have her make a mistake that could be devastating. She was not left alone...DD was in her room downstairs......Let's hope we have heard the last from him.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2008 at 1:10PM
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Yikes! I had forgotten the part about the gun...

Definitely call your neighbor the patrolman. Stop being timid/polite about it! Sure, apologize, and suggest you may be over-anxious (you're not). But also mention the gun and suicide stuff and that he's a felon, and he will very quickly agree that you're not over-reacting. He is a trained observer and could be a very valuable ally in your efforts to keep DD safe.

Have you spoken to *every* other neighbor also? If not, take a few plates of Christmas cookies and get visiting! If Ex's car shows up on your street, you want to know about it. Folks will be home and Christmas tends to be an emotional time of year. I'd be surprised if he let the holiday pass without some 'heartfelt plea' or dramatic stunt.

DD should not be alone right now - ever! And have you considered hiring a PI to follow Ex? See where (if) he works? How he spends his free time? See if he is following DD or moving on?

You'll be in my thoughts --

    Bookmark   December 22, 2008 at 3:58PM
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The request for a protection order has been denied. DD went to the court house with a volunteer from the domestic violence center. It took about an hour and it came back denied.

I can't stay with her 24 hours a day. It is not possible. I understand that some of you feel that I need to be more aggressive and I understand that but I just can't be with her 24 hour a day. She has school, she has a job, she has a life. I can't see keeping her home, having her quit school, having her quit her job. She can't become a prisoner. Of course if he hunts her down and kills her I'll wish to hell that I had bought a gun and sat beside her constantly. I am very frustrated and dealing with other issues that are impeding my day to day activities. Is there any thing more important than her life? No...yet like I said I can't be with her every minute.

I have not read the rejection statement. She is at a friends house right now. I have to go back to the dentist in the morning....what he did to day didn't work....and then I'll have to find out from the center what we do next.

I think when DH get home I will ask him to call the apartment manager and ask him what has happened on his end.

I'll call my neighbor in a few minutes and let you all know what he says.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2008 at 8:13PM
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Called the patrolman...he gave me a name and number to contact to see if we can run a criminal history...he is not sure we can.....he said that filing the request is all we can do and getting a lawyer would help to fill one of those requests out...since we have done that no need for a lawyer. I guess the person from the domestic violence center showed DD on line that he has been in jail 3 times in our city, once at the state pen. DD will discuss more with me when she gets home.

I called another neighbor and her first reaction was that she didn't want to get involved. I managed to talk her into calling me if she saw him.

DH and I spent a considerable amount of time on the phone with the apartment manager/landlord of EX. We compared notes and have joined forces in keeping each other abreast of things. EX is still living there. He has had churches pay rent since he moved in and when the landlord caught onto the scam he returned the churches check and informed them of what he was doing. Landlord is willing to supply me with any info I might need in getting a background check done and he will research what he can. He said he should have done that first but didn't.

Some states have a law on the books regarding stalking but ours does not. I thought it was a counselor that went with DD to the court house but it was a friend. I will have to see if we have any other options.

It does sound like EX lost his job months ago. Who ever he obtained the car from that he is driving now should be looking for him soon I would think. I will be picking DD's brain for the red flags that she ignored. I want to know everything.

Over and out....for now.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2008 at 11:02PM
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You have been given excellent advice by others. Do whatever you have to to keep your family safe, appearances and the opinions of others be damned. *You* need to contact the women's shelter and get local advice from them concerning your options. Beyond that, I wanted to let you know that you and your family are in my prayers.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2008 at 11:03PM
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Please make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the landlord doesn't let on to the EX in any way that you have spoken and are working together.

I can't imagine what you are going through, and the trouble with your tooth on top of everything. Wishing you strength and praying that the EX makes some stupid mistake in another part of his life and gets thrown back in prison.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2008 at 11:33PM
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I am as certain as I can be about the landlord. He was willing to give me confidential info and I told him that I didn't want it unless I needed it to get the criminal history. I will talk with him about the importance of EX not having a clue that we have spoken.

I appreciate very much every one's concerns and advice. I can't stress that enough. I am worn out by it all and probably won't post for a few days unless there is news.

Merry Christmas everyone.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2008 at 1:06AM
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A very Merry Christmas to you and your family too.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2008 at 6:55AM
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You and your family are in my prayers Believer. Merry Christmas

    Bookmark   December 24, 2008 at 8:52AM
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Just a little up date.....Our Christmas was mixed.....some really good times and some really stressful times.

DD20 had to work Christmas Eve. and Christmas night. Christmas Eve. was peaceful. Tonight she called from work saying that EX's friend had come in and asked her where they first met. She said they met at a friends house. He then asked her if there was something about a park. She told him the name of a park that she and EX had gone to several times. She told me that his friend was visibly upset. She was shaking on the phone and told me that she was afraid the friend was going to tell EX that she was at work and that he would come in. I had taken her to work so that her car would remain in front of our house and not in the stores parking lot.

I got the friend's number and called him. I told him that he was not to tell EX. that DD was working and that he was not to contact my daughter for any reasons, ever. He said that EX had left a suicide note at his apartment and the friend was going all over town but could not find him. I told friend that I was sorry for what he was going through but that no matter what happened, no matter what, I did not want my daughter contacted. I told him that she was trying to get on with her life. Friend said the EX said he was feeling better and then he would read that DD and a "mutual" friend of theirs had been in communication and then he would fall apart. I told friend that I would ask DD about that but again, do not contact her.

DD said that there was no "mutual" friend. That a woman emailed her last year when she broke up with him and again since this final break up. Never in between. DD said that even after she changed her email the woman found her new email and contacted her again. DD said see had previously emailed the woman and told her not to contact her. I told DD that I didn't think their was a "woman". That I thought it was the EX. I told her under no circumstances should she open any emails from this "woman" or anyone else that she isn't sure about.

I did not tell her about the suicide note. I did tell her what I had told EX's friend. I did tell her that she needed to understand that no matter what happened to EX in the future she was not responsible for it. She said the if he ever did kill himself the worst thing would be his friends putting it on her.

If he should to that we would hear from the landlord. Part of me would not want to tell her if he did. I know that isn't right but that is how I feel.

She called early tonight and I went to get her from work. Poor thing.

DS came into the store right after EX's friend was in. He was with his friends. They told her that they were just 3 minutes from the store and if anything happened for her to call, they could be there right away. How sweet.

I wish I knew how to find out where an email had come from so I we would know if this "woman" was from Ca. as she says she is. There are ways to find out people's email addresses but so far the only sites I can find charge a fee.

    Bookmark   December 25, 2008 at 11:46PM
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You cannot get their email address through those sites. You get phone numbers, addresses, estimated income, birth year, and sometimes even that is inaccurate. IP addresses are not any help either, unless the Internet Service Provider (ISP) is willing to give you their personal information, which is highly unlikely unless there is a court order or police involvment.
You might try googling the person's name. If her name is Mary Jones and she lives in California, type in (including the quotes around the name), "Mary Jones" California. You can also try googling the part of their email address before the "@". People will often use the part before the "@" as a posting name on the internet. Keep in mind that there are millions of people on the net, so the chances that more than one person is using that posting name is good. But still, you might get lucky and get some useful information. Try googling mine - weed30. A lot of the links are me, but there are others that are not me.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2008 at 9:20AM
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weed30.....how did this person get my daughter's new email address after she changed it?

    Bookmark   December 26, 2008 at 11:00AM
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That would be a question for your daughter. She could be keeping a few things from you because she thinks they are "safe" to do yet she knows you'll get really mad if she admits it. I hope that's not true. It is also possible that:

> Someone else who knows the address gave it out, if so, probably tricked in some way by EX or a friend of EX.
> She is using the address on a MySpace or Facebook account. People can click a link to send email, just like you can here.
> Her new address is something fairly easy to guess.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2008 at 1:32PM
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weed30.....I think that it's probably because she picked something easily guessed. I remember saying that to her when she chose it.

She knows that my DH and I are there to protect her as best we can. This has made us closer and I think it has shown her how much she can count on me and how fiercely I love her. It has brought her brother and her closer together as well.

We all feel better today....she drove to work and I'll wait up for her. If she has any fears she'll call me. Hopefully all will be quite.

Ex didn't kill himself or else we would have heard from the landlord. I hope his friends are getting sick of this by now. I don't see how they could not be.

She forwarded the email from the so called "mutual" friend and the person was vicious.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2008 at 8:59PM
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It really shows how fiercely you love her. Too many parents would not give this situation the extreme concern and attention it demands.
I admire you for that.

And, of course he didn't kill himself. It was just another ruse to get her to make contact.

Feel free to email me and I'll see if I can dig up some information for you.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2008 at 9:29PM
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This morning the landlord for EX called and spoke to my husband. He said that the police had asked him if he knew where EX was or had been. All of it having to do with a suicide attempt. I am assuming that on Christmas night his friend was not able to locate him and had still not heard from him or found him at his apartment this morning. The landlord did mention that he thought he knew why the EX had taken the deal on one of the theft charges and decided to do 3 months in the county jail instead of going to court over it. Even though he said he was innocent he didn't want it to go to trial. He had 2 felony convictions already and had he been convicted on that one it would have been 3. I have not checked my state....is there a "3 strikes and you're out rule" in all state or just some? That would have been his 3rd.

We have not mentioned anything to DD about the suicide note or the landlord calling about the police looking for EX.

DH drove by his apartment (just 5 blocks from our house) and his car was not there. It has not been there for over 36 hours or so......Who knows....maybe he did it this time. I would like to know how the friend of his knew to look for him....did EX call him and tell him he was going to do it on Christmas and then the friend got into his apartment or did the friend just not hear from him that day and go looking for him and find the note by accident?

We will just have to wait for a call from the landlord. I would not be surprised if he did kill himself.

weed30....thank you for the offer.....I think I will just wait for now and see if any other emails come to DD. Part of me just doesn't want to know, if you know what I mean.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2008 at 9:03PM
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Believer, once again, I'm so sorry you and your family are going through this. How exhausting it must be.

Personally, I think this is just the EX upping the ante. Threaten suicide, then disappear for a few days to raise the level of drama in order to suck your daughter back into his so called life.

Stay strong. That is the one thing that will help -- hopefully he will realize that his actions are not going to work and will give up.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2008 at 11:16PM
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"Personally, I think this is just the EX upping the ante. Threaten suicide, then disappear for a few days to raise the level of drama in order to suck your daughter back into his so called life."

But I'm a bit concerned that your DD doesn't know about this suicide hoax/stunt/attempt. What will happen if she does find out and you're not around to talk sense into her? DD has basically two choices -- Do something or Do nothing.

If she does something - anything - and Ex has not killed himself, she's been pulled back into the relationship in his mind and the stakes have gone up. He now knows what level of drama is required to keep her involved, and he'll keep it up. If she does something and he has already killed himself, then it won't have helped.

If she does nothing and Ex has not killed himself, she's shown that she is NOT in the relationship, and that a VERY DRAMATIC stunt has had no effect. That has to be a good thing. If she does nothing and Ex has already killed himself, then she has to realize it wasn't her fault -- that Ex was a very unstable, bad news guy. And that at least, her problems being stalked by a dangerous and unstable man are over.

It concerns me that a guy with 2 felony convictions and a death wish is obsessing over your daughter. Not to plant horrible thought in your head Believer, but it isn't much of a stretch to imagine him attempting to take her with him in some sort of "If I can't have her, nobody can" grandstand. Is there a sympathetic police officer who can see if Ex has charged anything on his credit cards or made any calls on his cell phone? You want to know if he's alive and hiding or if he really is dead.

Or, you yourself could go to a neutral location (mall, library) and use a pay phone or public phone to dial Ex's cell phone to see if he answers? Nothing where caller ID would tie back to you, but if possible, from a location where he'd be curious enough to answer the call. (County jail? Hospital?) He probably won't answer, but if he does, you'd at least know that he's alive and that you can't let your guard down.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2008 at 11:50AM
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VERY good ideas Sweeby.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2008 at 8:14PM
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DD had gotten a email from the "woman" friend of EX that lives in Ca....we don't know that she exist with the details that she is presented with.....I mean it could be anyone sending the emails, even EX. The email said that they hadn't been able to locate him since early morning. DD knows something is going on but she did not respond to the email....this is the second one that she has received and not responded to.

I have talked to her about what would happen if he actually did kill himself. She said that she would be devastated of course. I asked her that she had to know that it has nothing to do with her and she isn't responsible for what he does? She says that she understands that and the worst part would be that all of his friends would attack her and blame her for it......I feel that should it happen I would get her into counseling right away.

I have talked to her about him possibly trying to get her into a car. I told her to fight to he death right where she stood. We bought mace for her and an air horn.

If he should kill himself the "woman" would let DD know and we would get a call from the landlord. If it happens I'll switch phones with her for a while to handle the calls from his friends. They should be getting sick of this by know.......we haven't seen his jeep in the parking lot since Christmas afternoon. This is when the new suicide deal started. The car could have been repossessed. DH says that lights have been on and off and blinds open.......over and out for now.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2008 at 10:55PM
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Believer, is it possible that he has put a keylogger on her computer, and that is how he found the new email addy, and is possibly tracking her net moves?

    Bookmark   December 29, 2008 at 12:52AM
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Is there any news? Has anybody heard from him?

    Bookmark   December 30, 2008 at 1:07PM
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The last day that we heard anything about him was on the 27th. Unless DD has received an email today and I haven't heard about it she hasn't heard anything. I have thought about calling the landlord to touch base but it has been so nice to not have to talk about him that I'm not sure I want to do that.

It is sad but I have been checking the obituaries daily.

Since I contacted his friend and told him to lay off of my DD it has been completely quiet. It has only been three days though and the pattern has been that things would be quiet for a couple of days and then it would start up again.

DH checked out the parking lot of EX's apartment and there was a different car in the spot that he usually parks in. That could mean several things.....he could have gotten another car.....they might not have assigned parking places........he may not have shown up since Christmas......he could have been evicted, which is something that the landlord would have called us about I think. I would not be surprised if he just left town.

I am extremely curious about what is going on but I will not contact any of his friends or his pastor because it would get back to him and he would think that whatever he is doing or has done is working and DD is back in his life.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2008 at 1:26PM
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I would think that the pastor would refrain from telling him that you inquired about him, if you asked him not to say anything. I would really want to know where he is and not be lulled into a false sense of security.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2008 at 1:42PM
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"I would really want to know where he is and not be lulled into a false sense of security."

Me too -- Can you think of any way to find out?
Frankly, knowing the landlord is on your side, asking him might be the best thing.

OK - This is is way out there... But what about reading the water meter at his apartment for a couple of days to see if there's any movement? Not YOU obviously, but maybe the landlord would do it?

I would also think that the pastor would keep your confidence if you asked him to. ESPECIALLY if you explained about the stalking and suicide threats - old and new. The pastor will surely want to help Ex (and your DD) and can be made to realize that leting Ex know you asked would be harmful to them both.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2008 at 3:32PM
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Ok....(deep breath here)...I just got off of the phone with the landlord. He went to court and got an eviction notice for EX. It will be served to EX asap with possible delays due the Holiday but it was granted. EX was present, he was late but he did show. The landlord thought that he showed up with a sheriff or deputy. EX asked to speak to the judge and told the judge that he had been in a mental health crisis facility and was going to be able to pay the rent due to a church paying it for him. The judge issued the order anyway.

The landlord said that he would let me know where EX would be relocating but that I was not to let anyone know how I got the info. ( here I am posting it on the Internet...yikes!) Seems next to impossible for EX to get to this site and who cares anyway at this point. By the way, what is a keylogger and how do you do that?......EX has to leave some sort of forwarding address if he wants his belongings back should he not take them with him when he is evicted.

One of the other tenants had called the landlord to say that EX was in the apartment on Saturday which was after the big "No body has seen him or heard from him and he left a suicide note on Christmas Day." thing. I'm sure that EX was shocked when DD didn't respond to it. I never told her about although the friend of his did come into her work.

I continue to pray for this man. There is no way to know if this is the bottom for him and if he will improve psychologically. I don't even know if he has been down this particular path before. He may have. I hate to even think about him. I am not a hard hearted person even though I can be a real you know what. I hate thinking that he has had such a childhood....if that is even true. I want him to be healthy and move on with his life in a good way. More than that I want my daughter to be able to move on with her life without his shadow always following her. I do understand that he may be around for a long time in one way or another and we will do our best to keep up with him.

I am going to tell DD about he suicide thing now and let her know about the eviction. I trust that she will not get involved any further. She knows now that made a big mistake in calling him that day. She said she feels like such a fool. He really played her for money during the last part of the relationship. They would go to do something and he would say that he had left his atm card at home, didn't have cash etc and she would end up paying. He even went so far as to reserve a hotel room for her and friends, out of town, when she went to a show for school. When they all got there it wasn't paid for like he said it was going to be and she had to shell out 300 bucks. We had just paid off her credit card so that she wouldn't be doing the interest thing and he did that. I told her that when her bill comes to let me know and I would put extra on it. I don't believe in keeping secrets from DH but this time I am going to make an exception. He would be sooooo pissed about the hotel room and I don't want anymore stress between us. I now have her card.

So.....again that is the latest. Will this ever end?

Just told DD about the suicide note on Christmas and the info from the landlord. I asked her if she wanted to be kept abreast of things and she said only if she asks. I told her that was fine and she should know that I would be doing my best to keep track of him behind the scenes. Any advice on how to do that would be greatly appreciated.....She and I are going to go shopping and spend some of that Christmas money!!!!!!!

    Bookmark   December 30, 2008 at 5:33PM
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To try to answer your question - I'm not a techie: if EX had access to a computer that she uses (desk or laptop) at your home, he could have put a spyware program on it that tracks keystrokes hence the name 'key logger'. The program intermittently sends the information to the tracker (EX) that shows everything typed, including usernames and passwords. If you think he had access to a computer she uses, lets deal with it.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2008 at 8:30PM
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I asked DD if she ever took her laptop over to his apartment and left the room or gave him any time a lone with it. She said that he never had internet access nor did he ever have a computer. When ever he uses one he goes to a library.

I know that it is necessary to keep track of him and I felt that I had to call the landlord but since doing that he is all that we are thinking about and talking about. I hate it. I have to get to where I can deal with the current status of things and then let it go.

DD and I did go shopping together tonight and we talked about it off and on. It was good to spend time with her outside of the house and away from the family. I don't get to do that very much any more.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2008 at 9:23PM
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I'm glad you told her about the suicide note, and since he's still alive, he clearly didn't do it. That should make it easier for her to resist the next time he tries it...

Hopefully, the 'mental health crisis facility' will actually help him -- though they probably don't have the time or resources to care about any more than "will he kill himself next week".

    Bookmark   December 30, 2008 at 9:48PM
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The landlord said that he thought the center followed the twelve step type program. I am not familiar with that but he said that they would encourage EX to contact all of the people that he offended or hurt and apologize plus let them know what had driven him to behave the way he did. (his childhood situation) Landlord's opinion wasn't very high of that practice saying that he felt it encouraged the offender to not feel responsible for their own actions. I hope in saying this that I am not misrepresenting what landlord has said. He has been a great help to us. I do not want to offend anyone here that has been through a 12 step program either. I told DD not to be surprised if EX tried to contact her if he was encouraged to apologize. I just want her to be prepared, don't want to scare her but I don't want her to be surprised either.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2008 at 11:23PM
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You, DD and entire family are in my prayers. I wanted to mention a few things that (might) be helpful info? I am not sure
Depending on the state of residence, most cellphones connect to the highway patrol when 911 is dialed. This can actually delay helpbeing recieved as the HP has to ask for the probelm, them location. The call is then routed to the local departent that would handle the emergency. In a situation like you are living under, those seconds are going to count.
I was a Girl Scout Leader and the local PD had me teach all my scouts to program the local pd number into cell phones by putting the number 1 then city name with NO SPACES (ie 1LASVEGAS PD), then any subsequent frequently visited cities (ie 2Boulder PD, ect) This way the numbers appear at the very top of the contact list and are easier to locate.
As to the 12 step program, created by AA founders, the program actiually is veryu beneficial to someone who has made a concious commitement to better their life and free themself from addiction ( any type, not just alcohol) the 'apology' portion, for people you have harmed is actually the 9th step. The step directs making amends to anyone you have harmed, unless such an amends will cause harm to them or others.
I was unfamiliar with the program until we found out DD 18 had become addicted to meth. She has been using this program for 22 months with much sucess (except for when it comes to her taste in men!)
I have to honestly say that even being a 'normie' (non-addict, I have started foloowing the program just to become more peaceful within my own heart and have found that I am a much happier person! That of course is just my personal experience, but did want to share.
I hope that things stay at a low simmer, and you and family are able to enjoy the rest of the holiday.
for infoon the 12 step program, here is a helpful link

    Bookmark   December 31, 2008 at 3:14AM
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Thank you so much for the info. I will talk with my daughter when I can to pass it on and see that she gets things set up for the quickest possible response.

Thank you also for the link about the 12 step program. I will definitely check that out. It would cause harm in our situation for EX to contact DD or us. Just the thought of coming face to face with him gives me the chills. I can't imagine how DD would feel. I am hoping that he will be evaluated by someone that deals with a criminal mind set. My concern is that he will be able to BS his way through it all. I continue to pray for him that he will have a complete turn around in his life. Even with that I don't ever want to see him again and I would not personally believe anything he said.

    Bookmark   December 31, 2008 at 11:17AM
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"She said that he never had internet access nor did he ever have a computer. When ever he uses one he goes to a library. "

Um, that *is* internet access. And it's obvious his "friends" have a computer and internet access as well. doesn't mean they'll let him use it to "spy", but you never know.

About the hotel; did he have access to her CC, or has he just memorized the number and exp date?
I'd take the computer in and have it checked out for spyware just in case. You might be surprised at what you find on there.

    Bookmark   December 31, 2008 at 11:19AM
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littledog....I am aware off what internet access is. I just meant that he didn't have the service in his apartment and did not have access to her lap top.

He has not memorized her CC number and exp. date. He was just lucky she had it with her at the times when he knew he wasn't going to pay. She admitts that she feels like the biggest fool in the world but I won't rub that into her.

Having the computer checked for spy-ware is an interesting idea. I may do that.

I would like to know how much he has scammed his friends. There were times when she came to his aid and couldn't understand why they ( 2 guys ) wouldn't. She said that she figured one guy would stick by him for a long time and I told her that when the friend realizes that it is costing him too much of himself he might jump ship. That is why there are professionals to deal with things. They don't get emotionally involved.

    Bookmark   December 31, 2008 at 7:07PM
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Just a quick note to let you all know that things are quiet here. We have heard nothing since I contacted the EX's landlord. Have not heard from the landlord either.....There have been no further emails from the the "woman" friend of his. That is very interesting. I do not know if EX is in an inpatient facility but if he is that would explain why the "woman" friend has not been emailing my DD. She would also be in the facility!!!! To strange!

Enjoying the quiet for now.

A thought just came to me.....EX isn't working, has no benefits.....how would it work for him to be getting treatment? Who pays for that?

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 2:34PM
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Hi Believer,
Not sure of your state but in California, there is Indigents insurance that I believe can cover mental. If your local PD 5150'd him, they will probably cover it through medi-cal, so lucky everyone foots the bill :)
Barring that, they may just bill him.
Glad things are quiet for a change.
Enjoy the peace

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 9:04PM
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There's an interesting article in the New York Times about abuse and teenage dating. Apparently states and local jurisdictions are beginning to realize how serious, and dangerous, the problem is and are changing attitudes and local laws to deal with these issues.

I hope your daughter is safe and doing better. You are clearly working hard to make your home a place of safety and refuge.

Here is a link that might be useful: Abuse and teenage dating

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 8:42PM
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DD received another email from the "woman". This time a different email address. Says she is emailing from a friends house. The conversation that I had with the EX's friend is mentioned in detail. Either the friend talked to her like she said he did in the email and told her every thing that I said or the friend that I talked told EX every thing. The "woman" goes into great detail explaining the charges that were brought against EX and what he served time for. She says she is in the legal field, secretary or some thing. I told daughter not to respond but to forward it to me.

DD receives a comment on myspace saying that "he has seen her at her job, comes in there a lot and works down the street from her at so and so." She calls so and so to see if a guy works there and they say no.

I told her to not post any thing on my space. She needs to become invisible.

    Bookmark   January 4, 2009 at 3:33PM
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believer, how is everything going? Give us an update, I worry about your family as I am sure several others do.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2009 at 8:17PM
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missd 2008

Things are quite. We haven't seen him nor heard from him in a while.

We received a phone call a day or so ago that he had been served his eviction notice and was out of the apartment that is just 5 blocks from us. When the landlord asked for a forwarding address EX said that he would go to Omaha ( about an hour from us ) for a while. That is where his good friend lives. He said he would probably head back to North Carolina, which is were he is from. I think he has played this game so I really couldn't say where he will end up. I don't know how one goes about driving half way across the US with no money. Perhaps he will milk another church for the gas money. Who knows.

I have been sick the last few days with the flu and a terrible episode of my sciatica....thus not posting for a couple of days. Still don't feel the best but better at least.

I hope we have heard the last from him. I think he may have accepted that he and DD are finished and is moving on but who knows for sure what he is thinking.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2009 at 4:28PM
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Sorry to hear you have been sick. I hope you get to feeling better. I also hope he is out of your life but don't let your guard down. Take care.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2009 at 6:30PM
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I am so sorry that you have had the flu. I has passed through our house also and is miserable. Take it easy for a few days, you dont want it sneaking back.
Hopefully he will find a church to give him the money, that would truly be a Blessing!
As missd_2008 says, dont let your guard down, and make sure DD doesnt either!

    Bookmark   January 9, 2009 at 3:32AM
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DD and I talked about him being evicted and what he told his landlord about going to Omaha and then onto North Carolina. She and I agree that he is probably staying in Lincoln. She has pepper spray now, changed her cell phone number and email address and is not responding when the so called "woman" does email her at the new address. I even bought her a new coat since the one she had was white and I felt it made her stand out more. I bought her a black one and now she blends into the crowd more.

After something like this I don't know that you can ever feel really safe. I think we will always have him on our minds and look for him. At least now we all are more careful about things so in that respect he has done us a favor so to speak. I promise not to let my guard down and I will make it my mission to continue to educate myself and my kids.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2009 at 1:18PM
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Well, haven't heard from you in several days, here is hoping that all is till peaceful for you and your family.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2009 at 9:21AM
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Missd 2008

I am pleased to report that I have nothing new to report! :o) All is quiet.

We are always on the watch....no false sense of security.

No emails have been sent by the "woman" that was harassing DD either. I will not be surprised to have something pop up though. When you go through something like this you look for the face in the crowd all of the time. I am content at the moment to not do any digging to see where he might be. I don't think he will be easily found. I don't want to talk to his friend. I don't trust anyone connected to him. I don't think the ex will leave much of a trail unless he gets in trouble with the law. I am not ruling out hiring someone in the future to find him though.

I have been in extreme pain lately with my sciatic nerve disorder and heavily medicated. I don't like to post too much at these times because I don't want to sound as though I've taken a "trip" without leaving the farm. Today I am trying to move as little as possible. Thanks for being concerned for us. It helps me to keep my eyes more open.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2009 at 5:37PM
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Glad to hear he is leaving you alone for awhile. Sad to hear you have been feeling so bad. You are in my prayers.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2009 at 9:00AM
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Thank you missd....my condition disabled me in 1999. Every once in a while I have a reprieve and can do things but most of the time I have to limit myself quite extensively. Trying to act like a "normal" person during the Holidays always takes it's toll.

My prayers are with ex too.....I pray he gets help. His life will never be anything but what it has been and worse if he doesn't get help.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2009 at 10:07AM
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Hello All.....I was hopeful that I would not have to add to this saga but not surprised that I have to. EX was seen tonight at DD's job. He had parked his car next to hers in the parking lot and was out of his car, walking around hers and looking in all of the windows. One of her fellow employees was outside for a cigarette break and saw him. When EX noticed that he had been spotted he got into his car and left.

DD called me from work to tell me. I told her that she needs to carry her pepper spray every time she left a building to go to a car. I told her that she needs to figure he is close at hand even if she doesn't see him or no one else does. How many times has he been that close to her property or to the house and no one knew? My DH's truck was keyed just the other day. Makes you wonder who did that?

That's the latest ladies.....I'm sure that none of you are too surprised.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2009 at 12:29AM
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When the co-worker saw him he needed to call the police. Seriously, no one near your daughter has the luxury of giving this guy a free ride anymore. Report every sighting immediately. There are federal laws against stalking aren't there? He is harassing her. His behavior is beyond violating and illegal. How frustrating that he isn't already in jail.

I am praying for your health and safety. God bless you and your family believer.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2009 at 5:19AM
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organic brice

Some states have a law on their books regarding stalking. My state does not. The police have told us that he is not doing anything illegal. Even though it is harassing in our point of view it isn't illegal. The police have told us previously that he is not breaking any laws, even when he came to her job, went inside and hassled employees there. Only if we had a do not contact order on him would he be breaking the law. We applied for one and it was denied.

I think anytime he is sighted it should be recorded but my guess is that unless he makes a verbal threat against her or we catch him on our property late at night or he comes into her job or work on a regular basis and confronts her they aren't going to issue an order against him.

The parking lot is a public place and anyone can do what he did. That fact that it is him creeps us out but I doubt if reporting it would change anything where the law is concerned. We don't even know where he lives now so the police can't even talk to him if it should come to that.

It is very frustrating but at this point the law protects him basically.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2009 at 10:59AM
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I'm sorry this continues for you and your family. I am also sorry that you are not feeling well, and have to fight illness on top of everything else. I really admire your strength in every aspect of your life.

I would like to share something with you offline, if you are inclined. My contact info can be found by clicking on the "My Page" link next to my name.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2009 at 10:43PM
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I appreciate your kind words. I don't feel very strong though. I am quite worn out and in need of a vacation. If I wasn't having so much darn pain I would book a flight to Arizona to see my step daughter.

I'm going to try acupuncture.....there is nothing more that the medical side can do for me and I am sooooo tired of the medication. For my diabetes I'm suppose to be active and for the sciatica I'm suppose to be off of my feet. I feel a bit sorry for my poor self right now....Any body out there done acupuncture?????

    Bookmark   January 21, 2009 at 9:13AM
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Believer, this has all of the ingredients for a tragic ending, that we see too often in the newspapers. You mentioned that he is struggling in so many areas of his life right now, and has been evicted on top of losing her.

Have you considered sending your daughter quietly away to a relative in another state for several months or more until he has cooled off and has the opportunity to get his life back together and is happy and healthy?

    Bookmark   January 21, 2009 at 9:52AM
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If she were to leave she would mess up her college and school loans. She doesn't want to leave. She is talking about leaving after she graduates but that is in about a year.

Ex has been evicted before I imagine and been worse off then this. We did a lot to help him out and were always very kind to him. We paid a months rent for him once so that he wouldn't loose his apartment....we sold him a car and then forgave over $700.00 that he didn't pay on the car. I bought and hung curtains for him as a surprise for him per DD's request. We took him out for his birthday and bought birthday gifts and Christmas gifts....the list goes on. Even through the breakup we have not had words. I know it is a long shot but I am hoping that he remembers our kindness towards him.

There is no way to know what he is capable of. I understand all of the possibilities and it worries me. I asked DD if she would change jobs and she doesn't want to. I feel that she has to have a say in how she lives her life. I also feel that during this she wants to be at home and close to me. She has said that I am the only one that she knows will be there for her no matter what. It isn't that I don't want to protect her. She wants to stay here and finish school. I think she needs to feel that she has some control over her life. It is a difficult thing and I know that some people feel that I am not doing enough, I respect that. She and I are doing what she wants, I have to respect that also.

I thank you for your concern. Honestly I do.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2009 at 10:24AM
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I have tried acupuncture. In my opinion, in my experience, it is VERY effective. But, like with any type of treatment, the person giving it is very important. Check the credentials and interview the doctor (should be a PHD just as a Western doctor). The doctor of acupuncture should have a clean office, a professional demeanor, and be credentialed.

That being said, I find it more effective when combined with herbal therapy. I got into an accident and injured my arm (bruised beyond belief, looked and felt broken) and went to my acupuncturist prior to emergency because the wait was shorter. lol! Within two hours the pain was gone, the swelling was diminished and I felt I could wait until morning to see how I felt. The next morning, my arm was completely back to normal.

That's just one story... I really think it works! It's very good for pain management and the needles should not hurt!!! If they do, the doctor should tell you that it may hurt (due to issues in that area, etc.) but the pain should not last. It should be a very relaxing, healing experience.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2009 at 11:12AM
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I emailed an office in town late last night and asked some questions. The Doctor emailed me back today, which I was impressed about. The website went into great detail about what acupuncture was, how it worked....the whole nine yards. It mentioned the part about pain....not a concern of mine. I would like to know why the you feel the Doctor should be a PHD. This one is an MD.

I called the office and made an appointment for Jan. 30th. They are fitting me in and will call if there is a cancellation.

There isn't anything said on the site about herbal treatments. Is that something I would do on my own?

The office also bills my insurance and the woman said that my insurance should cover part of it. They charge between 75 and 95 per session and the number of sessions depends on your situation, as I'm sure you know.

I am excited.....I can't sleep more than an hour or two at a time....it even hurts to lay down now. If I medicate enough to feel better I'm an idiot or unconscious. I'm enough of an idiot the way it is!

Thanks for responding....Your experience is encouraging to me.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2009 at 4:16PM
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I have not read this whole thread, but scrolled down to the bottom and saw the topic of Acupuncture. Last spring, there was a festival we have every year on Main Street, and the acupuncturist had a set-up as part of the festival right outside of her office. There were several people sitting down with needles in their ears, and I had really been wanting to check it out so I sat down. She had us fill out a quick questionaire, particularly about what we were interested in fixing. My issue was infertility. She stuck my ears, and 1 spot hurt a bit, but no serious deal breaker. I took her card, and decided it wasn't too bad so I went back to see her. I'm so glad she set up the outside acupuncture booth, or I would never have walked in there.

When I went in to see her, I expected to just lay down and get stuck with needles. However, we had a consult which was supposed to take 1 1/2 hours. I was in the consult for 2 1/2 hours. She asked so many questions about my life, and of course I spilled the beans. For many years I've had a recurring nightmare dealing with my mother and childhood. I've never sought therapy, just dealt with it on my own. She asked about all of it. Mind you, my acupuncturist was a therapist for 20 years. She has been doing acupuncture for 7. It all caught me off guard, I did not expect to be crying in a consult!! After that we did a session, and mostly it did not hurt. She attributed some pain to 'releasing the energy.' Also, to scar tissue after pregnancy. There is a release point at the foot, when she put that one in it really hurt, she said that was the exit, and there must have been a lot of pain in me. I went back for one more consult and cleansing of the energy and then also do an infertility. Then we did two more infertilities after that. I couldn't afford anymore, afterall I was seeking infertility treatment through my doctor, as well. A year later, I am pregnant. I don't attribute the infertility acupuncture to that, though. However, the recurring nightmares about my mother and childhood that I have had for 15 years are completely gone. I actually had a dream during treatment that ended resolved. And that was the very last nightmare I have had. The burden of that pain is much lighter. I wouldn't trade in my therapy for anything. She was a true healer in my mind and I will never forget her. What really suprised me was that she told me the pain of childhood could very much be causing infertility. That all of those systems tie together. So by healing that, I was able to get pregnant. I got my end result, which is pregnancy, but I really got much more out of it. I am thrilled, as is my husband, that I have moved on from that pain. I didn't realize that I would get so depressed, until my husband noticed I wasn't. Good luck, I hope you find it as rewarding an experience as I have!! Christy

    Bookmark   January 21, 2009 at 9:08PM
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Thank you for sharing your experience. I have a lot on my plate and have for years. I truly believe that emotional issues can manifest into physical ones. I now have diabetes along with the sciatica and have trouble loosing weight. If just the sciatica was helped I could work on the others. I hold onto a lot of things from my past which adds to the all over under tone of my state of mind.

I do not subscribe to eastern religious beliefs and would stop short of that but do believe that we certainly could learn methods of living that are healthier from other cultures. I would love to be able to get off of so much medication! In the long run that will become a problem also.

I am hopeful that someone cancels so that I can go sooner!

The issues with my daughter's ex are the same as the last report. That in it's self has caused me such stress!

    Bookmark   January 21, 2009 at 9:39PM
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"I would like to know why the you feel the Doctor should be a PHD. This one is an MD. "

I have no idea why I wrote that. Thank you for catching it. I meant MD, but my fingers obviously didn't know that!!!!

Sorry for any confusion!

    Bookmark   January 22, 2009 at 10:39AM
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Believer, I just read down further and saw you have issues with Diabetes/weight. A Chinese herbalist/acupuncturist can help with that as well. It will most likely require nasty tasting herbs and a change in diet, but the herbs give me so much energy!!!

Christy, I'm glad your issues were solved!! Congratulations! Consults are usually very long with acupuncture as they view treatment as holistic (mind/body rather than just physical). No 1 hour wait for a ten minute consult as with Western medicine.

I like to keep an open mind and take from each philosophy what I think is useful for me. I'm grateful there is Eastern and Western medicine and I am able to choose as I like!

    Bookmark   January 22, 2009 at 10:45AM
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Silver.....Thanks for clarifying the phd. thing

I am more than ready to explore the herbal part of Eastern Medicine. We have to pick and choose what works for us and I have forgotten that I am a consumer when it comes to medical treatment and should have a say in which way the wind blows for me. Western Medicine has it's place and I am thankful for the strides that it has made in various areas but it is quite disheartening to have a specialist say that there is nothing that they can do for you and that you have to live with it. This is not living. I was told that 10 years ago.

I look forward to a change and taking a more active role in my care. That alone makes me feel hopeful. I am going to look into Chinese herbalists in my area and also research what the net has to say about herbs and my specific health issues.

I want so badly to visit my SD33 in Arizona soon and I can't go feeling this way. That is going to be my goal.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2009 at 11:31PM
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believer - I read this whole thread and feel so bad for your entire family The EX has made you lives h2!!. I hope you haven't heard from him lately!

Did DD ever get a restraining order or protection order against him? If not, she can still do it. If the EX shows up DD can call 911 and he will automatically be arrested. I know the protection order is just a piece of paper - DD wil have to make sure she has her cell phone in her hand every time she leaves a building and has dialed in "91" with her finger ready to push the second "1." But it will put Ex off the street if he does come around her again. Please talk to DD about it and consider filing for an order right away.

I also suffer from sciatica. I wanted to tell you what has worked for me. I have expisodes where I am unable to walk at all and in unbelieveable pain from right side sciatic nerve pain. About 2 years ago I started going to a licensed massage therapist who is also certified in Neuro Muscular Therapy. NMT is where the therapist puts his thumbs on attachment points at either end of a muscle and digs like crazy. IT HURTS but in a good way. I cry during the sessions, but 2 days later and free of pain. For sciatica, he focuses on the sciatic notch in your pelvic bone, doing NMT in that area. It works! I went every week for 8 weeks and was pain free for 6 months. Now I go as needed, for 3 or 4 weeks at a time. HE also gave me stretching and yoga exercises to keep that area limber and the exercises help a great deal. Sometimes when I start to get sciatic twinges (like the start of an episode) I can do the exercies and it will go away completely.

I just wanted to tell you about NMT in case you hadn't heard of it, and the protection order in case you hadn't thought of that.

I will pray for you and send positive thougths your way!

    Bookmark   January 23, 2009 at 10:06PM
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Thank you so much for your concern. DD has requested a do not contact order against EX and it was denied. The last time we heard about him was when he was seen looking in her car at her job. He has not contacted her or us for a while. It has been a horrible ordeal. My nerves have just been completely shot at times. It is now wonder that I am having trouble with the sciatica to the extent that I am.

I appreciated the info. I want to try the acupuncture and give that a good chance to work. The NMT sounds interesting and I won't rule that out. I have tried the stretching and get no relief from that. I have done physical therapy also and my body gets stronger while the pain gets worse. It is funny how it will go away for a while and then hit me like a ton of bricks. Sometimes I could tell you what I have done to cause it and other times I have no idea. My neurologist told me that the problem is located in the area where the nerve root attaches to the spinal column. Nothing can be done medically. I take neurontin, which is an anti seizure medication. It helps a little. It does slow me down mentally a tad. I tell people that I used to be a lot smarter than I am now! When it is really bad I can loose control of my bladder......not at all pleasant. I have read that long term sciatica problems can cause that.

Again I thank you for your kind words. Having to deal with the EX boyfriend thing has really brought such kindness to me from so many posters. On other subjects we can kind of pick at each other but my experience with this issue has been a Godsend to me. I thank you for your prayers and positive thoughts.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2009 at 11:55PM
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Check out this thread in regards to ex-boyfriend from the marriage forum. It's a pretty interesting concept!!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Limerance

    Bookmark   January 24, 2009 at 5:49PM
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Quite interesting reading. I have thought about EX and how he must feel about DD, or any woman that has been in his life. I do understand the conceptual thinking behind the term "limerance". I had a man that I felt that way about once. I never told him, figuring that if he felt anything for me he would approach me. There were a few mixed signals, I thought but he never made an attempt that was something that I knew for sure showed he was interested in me. He had enough chances to do that and he didn't. He thought of me as a friend or sister I guess. Or he would have gone for a little "roll in the hay" if I would have. He even introduced me to a girlfriend that he began dating and ended up getting her pregnant and they later married. Ouch!

With EX's past ( if what he has said is true ) he undoubtedly has great fear of rejection. Again, if what he says is true, he wanted my DD to stay with him, build a future with him and he wanted a family with us. There are too many things though that are negatives to the success of their relationship that he is completely out of touch with which makes me think that he has a break with normal thought processes. This is evident with other actions...his extensive lying and his criminal behavior.

My DD did not want to marry or have children ( my goodness, she is only 20 ) and he did. Very much in fact. I don't know that she will ever change her mind but he had said that he would rather have had her and no kids than to not have her at all. I don't know that it would have been something he could have easily lived with though. The age difference is something that was too vast....11 years...when dealing with her age group. Had they met when she was in her 30's or 40's or older then it would not have been as big a deal.

I am sorry for him when it comes to honest, heartfelt feelings that he might have had for my DD. The fact that he could install such fear ( and continues to do so ) and the fact that he has told so many lies negates all of that though.

It sucks to be rejected. Our family histories have a lot to do with whether or not we can process the rejection in a healthy way. Most of us have been and some of us have stepped over a line while dealing with it that we cringe at after having healed a bit. It is important to teach our kids that when they deal with peers or a romantic interest people have a right to reject them. In the long run it is for the best.

I don't know how much EX has control over when it comes to his emotions about the breakup. I am sorry that I can't talk to him. It just can't happen. I want him to get help and to go onto have a happy life. More importantly though I want him to leave my DD alone and let her move on.

Thanks for the thread and the link Silversword.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2009 at 8:22PM
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I hate to bother you, but I came across these blog entries as I was searching for ways to deal with an ex of mine who is stalking me and my daughter. My heart just about stopped when you said he had lived in Omaha, and NC before that. I think it may be the same guy. He is a complete con artist, and I started dating him in Feb of '09, about when your thread ended. Was his name Scott? Thank you.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2009 at 4:11AM
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Wsalb14, Believer isn't on this site anymore. I'm really sorry. You might want to contact her through personal email, it might still be connected through here... or contact the site moderators as they may be able to forward a personal message from you to her.

Best wishes,

    Bookmark   July 8, 2009 at 12:56PM
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Wsalb....This man's name was Claude J. Last name starting with an "M". He goes by "CJ". He is 31 years old, about 5' 10" or 5' 11". He has black hair, brown eyes, is very heavy and looks very young for his age. He was driving a black Jeep Cherokee at the time. "Believer" does not have any info on this site any longer.

I have personal connections to Believer so I can assure you that this info is correct. Your post was startling to me so I thought that it was best to pass this info on.

He also has a friend that he calls "Cooper". "CJ" claims that his mother committed suicide when he was a young boy and that his father beat him.

These should be enough facts to let you know if they are one and the same. Follow the advice given here and what was done. It is good advice. Take care of yourself.

He contacted Believer's daughter via email a few months ago. To my knowledge though he is not watching her. I have no idea where he is.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2009 at 10:52PM
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