Fleischmann's Pizza Crust Yeast

foodonastumpOctober 28, 2010

Anyone tried this? I saw it on shelves late summer, then in September I had homemade pizza at a friend's house and when discussing the dough she said she used it. But since that day I've not been able to find it anywhere. It's not even obvious to find on Fleischmann's own web site - there seems to be a special site just for this yeast. Weird.

In short, it's a yeast formulated such that it doesn't require a rise and is easy to stretch. Mix the dough and use it.

Anyone seen it, tried it, have comments on it? I recall my friend's pizza being very good, but I'd like to play with it myself.

Here is a link that might be useful: pizza crust yeast

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teresa_nc7

I haven't seen this brand of pizza dough yeast, but years ago I was able to get some yeast for pizza dough from the SAF company that makes the wonderful SAF Instant Yeast. But I haven't found it recently. It was great and I'd love to find it again. Maybe you could email or call the Fleischmann people and ask them?

Teresa

    Bookmark   October 28, 2010 at 8:38PM
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lindac

It's a marketing ploy. Just buy 2 pounds of instant yeast from Sam's or costco and call it good.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2010 at 8:55PM
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foodonastump

I'll write and ask for details. "Marketing ploy" stood out in my mind, too. Particularly since on their web site they freely admit that Bread Machine yeast and Rapid Rise are the same thing, and the only difference seems to be packaging.

2 pounds of yeast? I'm struggling just to get through my 4 oz jar before the expiration date 11/14/10! Then again, with 2 pounds on my hands I'd probably be forced to unwrap that Zoji that I'm still promising myself I'll use, LOL!

    Bookmark   October 28, 2010 at 9:15PM
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dcarch7

Posted by foodonastump "--I'm struggling just to get through my 4 oz jar (yeast)before the expiration date 11/14/10! Then again, with 2 pounds on my hands I'd probably be --------"

Take one tablespoons of yeast and mix well with equal part of shoe polish.

Swallow before going to bed.

It helps you to rise and shine the next morning.

dcarch :-)

    Bookmark   October 28, 2010 at 9:29PM
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cbadcali

Oh dc that was priceless. Rise and shine, I love it. cbad

    Bookmark   October 28, 2010 at 10:19PM
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lindac

Stumpy....that 2 pounds is cheaper than the 4 oz jar....and keeps well past it's expiration date in the freezer. Besides it comes in 2 1 pound bags....and you can be a hero and give one away.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2010 at 11:13PM
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chase_gw

Lol Darch!

Wish they sold yeast that way at our Costco. I hate paying the price for the 4 oz and the two or three times I bought it at the bulk store it was flat.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 8:28AM
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ci_lantro

From Stumpy's link: Pizza Crust Yeast is specially-formulated with dough relaxers that keep the dough from pulling or snapping back when shaping it.

More info on dough relaxers including a recipe to make your own (scroll down):

Here is a link that might be useful: Ellen's Kitchen

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 9:26AM
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jude31

I actually have a package of the yeast that was sent to me from a cooking club I belong to. I was supposed to test it which I obviously have not done.

From the back of the package:

All natural yeast

.Fleischmann's Pizza Crust Yeast allows you to easily make
great tasting homemade pizza!
.No rise time or proofing needed - just make and bake.
.Specially formulated for making easy pizza crust dough-
no frustrating "snap back" when rolling or pressing out
dough.
.Make your crust any way you want it - thick, thin, whole
wheat, with herbs or cheese - the possibilities are
endless!

Pizza Crust yeast is NOT recommended for bread baking.

For more great pizza crust recipes and helpful tips, visit us at
www.pizzacrustyeast.com

I hope this answers questions and maybe I'll just give it a try!

jude

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 10:51AM
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Teresa_MN

teresa_nc - I just bought some SAF instant yeast. I looked at the website. There is a "locate a store near you" in the lower left side of the home page. The website listed on the package is www.safyeast.com.

However, when I type that into my browser it brings me to Red Star yeast. Perhaps Red Star purchased SAF. Both brands are featured at the top of the page.

Good luck,
teresa_mn

Here is a link that might be useful: SAF/Red Star site

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 11:02AM
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teresa_nc7

The SAF yeast that I buy is in a bulk 1 lb. package. Has the same name, but doesn't look anything like the SAF on the Red Star site that you linked to.

Here is a link that might be useful: SAF-Yeast Instant 16 oz. package

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 11:49AM
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hawk307

When you have a very good Pizza Dough, why do some keep trying to find something better.
Just perfect what you have now.

I gave my Simple recipe to a great many CF's.
Many love it and others, just can't get it right. ???????
Lou

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 12:08PM
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lorijean44

Lou, it's just a matter of taste, that's all! :) Some people just like a different crust. It's not meant as an affront to you - really! Different strokes... you know?!

Frankly, I think as long as your yeast is 'healthy', it doesn't matter what kind you use for your bread doughs. Some yeast will give you a faster rise, but in all, whatever you use will give you good results given enough time! :D

Lori

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 12:23PM
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Teresa_MN

Teresa - King Arthur sells that product and another one by SAF in a brown bag. One pound is $6.95.

How can two products have the same name?

Here is a link that might be useful: SAF yeast

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 12:31PM
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Teresa_MN

Better yet - it's $5.95! About 40% less than the Amazon link you provided.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 12:34PM
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Teresa_MN

at the King Arthur site I found this:

"From France's Lesaffre Yeast Corporation".

So I paid over $2 for three 1/4 oz packages......there is definately a marketing ploy going on her. Which comes to over $40 a lb. Guess I will be ordering from KA in the future!

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 12:47PM
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Teresa_MN

the back of my package ALSO reads Lesaffre Yeast Corporation - France.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 12:49PM
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foodonastump

Lou - I just looked on yellow pages and there are 12 pizzarias within a 1.5 mile radius from the center of my town. If there were a such thing as "the best pizza" and one of them knew the recipe, then I suspect 11 of them would be out of business.

To answer your question though, the reason why this yeast got my interest is the promise of fresh pizza on the table in 30 minutes, start to finish. I know I can par bake crusts and throw them in the freezer. But I also know that in my house the freezer is largely nothing more than a waiting room for the garbage can. Unintentionally, but that's how it goes.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 1:01PM
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hawk307

Lori:
" It's not meant as an affront to you- really! "

I knew that. Just that some try Recipes and never get it right ???
Think it is the the recipe at fault and they will keep trying others.

Like Pizzeri's. you may try one and love it . Then when you go back another time, it isn't that great.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Is Jessy on good behavior ?
She didn't pick up on your last sentence.
Lou

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 1:22PM
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foodonastump

Note to self: If you find yourself trying new pizza dough recipes, it means you did not make Lou's recipe correctly.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 1:33PM
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annie1992

I keep trying new recipes, not because I don't like the ones I make, but because I always think there might be, maybe, something I like better. Plus, I like to experiment, it's part of the fun I have with cooking. I don't want to make and eat the same thing made the same way for days or months or years.

Sometimes I do, many times I don't, but I always try.

Annie

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 1:52PM
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jojoco

From Lou:
"I knew that. Just that some try Recipes and never get it right ???
Think it is the the recipe at fault and they will keep trying others."

I know I should just SOB Lou's comment, but I implore everyone not to believe that somehow your cooking skills are lacking if you tried, and did not like Lou's pizza dough. I've seen unbelievable photos here, things I've put on my cooking and baking bucket list. As a result, I have a hard time believing that this talented group can do all these incredible dishes and yet not be able to follow a simple pizza dough recipe.

There are many reasons why people try new recipes, even if they have a keeper.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 2:23PM
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lindac

I don't like whole wheat flour in my pizza crust, and i don't want a lot of oil. I also don't like a pizza dough with a "relaxed" dough. I want a chewey crust where the edges are like bread sticks, one that snaps back at you unless you let it relax.
I want my pizza very much like that 11th one that Stumpy mentioned. It's taken me a few years to find the recipe the way I like it....and coincidentally I usually use the same recipe that Ann T. uses. Not because I copied her recipe, but because we both found that is the recipe we like best for pizza crust.
Linda C

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 2:35PM
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ci_lantro

From Teresa mn's link:

Lesaffre Yeast Corporation markets our consumer Baker's yeast products under the RED STARî, SAFî and bakipanî brands.

And more from the link below:

In 2001, Lesaffre Group, the world leader in the science of yeast, acquired Red Star Yeast from Sensient Technologies (formerly Universal Foods.) Lesaffre entered into a joint venture with ADM and the Red Star Yeast Company was founded. A state of the art yeast plant in Cedar Rapids, Iowa opened in 2006.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lesaffre Yeast Corp

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 2:47PM
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dcarch7

Must be the full moon. Stirring up the pot seems like fun. :-)

I have made pizzas with sourdough, philo dough, puff pastry dough, French bread dough, supermarket dough ------

All tasted good.

dcarch

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 3:13PM
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dgkritch

I'm pretty sure I never met a pizza I didn't like!!
Just send them ALL here and I'll take care of it!

:-)

Deanna

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 3:25PM
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chase_gw

I've tried many recipes and tweaked over the years and I'm down to two favourites....well today favourites.

Julia Child's French bread with a TBSP of olive oil added and a thin crust (not really thin but thinner) I found on the WEB.

Speaking of phylo darch, here is one of my all time favourite pizzas made with phylo. I usually serve it as an appetizer.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 4:09PM
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Teresa_MN

Chase - that looks fabulous!!!! Have you shared the recipe in the past on CF?

Teresa

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 5:02PM
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chase_gw

Many times.....and if I may boast just a tad....yes I know Mom I shouldn't....it was a feature recipe in the Penzey catalog last Fall. Suoer easy and super good!

Stacked Pizza

7 sheets phyllo pastry
1/2 Cup butter melted
7 Tbl freshly grated parmesan
1 1/2 Cup grated mozarella
1 sweet onion sliced thinly and Separated Into Rings
5-6 roma tomatoes, sliced
1 Tsp oregano
salt and pepper to taste ( I don't use any salt I find the parm salty enough and I usually forget about the pepper!!!)
fresh herbs sprigs; thyme, oregano or rosemary

Preheat oven to 375. Follow package instructions to thaw phyllo. Place 1 sheet of phyllo on baking sheet, brush with butter and sprinkle with 1 TBSP of the parmesan cheese.
Repeat until all layers are used.

Press down firmly so layers stick together. Sprinkle top sheet with mozzarella. Place onions on top then place tomatoes on top. Season with oregano.

Bake for 20-25 minutes until edges are golden, and the bottom is cooked.

Decorate with fresh herbs and cut into squares (squares can be cut in half to make two bite trinagles)

Notes: I slice the onions and then cut the circles in half to arrange on top. I also try and line the tomatoes up in a diagonal pattern, I don't place them randomly, and then when I cut it I cut the squares so each piece has 1 roma slice. I also don't measure anything anymore I just
sprinkle the cheese. I use rosemary but I cut the leaves off the stems. I've often cooked it with the rosemary on it. I also line my baking sheet with parchment paper.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 5:36PM
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Teresa_MN

Are you saying you sent in the recipe and they featured it? How fun! Did they post your photo and your Penzey story?

Thanks - it looks delicious!

Teresa

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 5:42PM
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chase_gw

No they contacted me directly and asked me to be a feature contributor... I must have rung a bell on my last order!

They featured a couple on my recipes (modified from fresh to dried herbs), two photos and a little background info. It was fun.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 5:54PM
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ci_lantro

If I'm planning ahead, I like to use the Cook's Illustrated Almost No Knead recipe that's over on Breadtopia.com. Otherwise, I use Lou's recipe.

A tip--save the liquid from black olives when you drain them and use that for some/ all the liquid in your pizza recipe. You'll need to reduce (or omit) the am't. of salt in the recipe because the olive 'juice' is somewhat salty.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 6:27PM
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annie1992

Sharon, I think I still have that magazine, just so I could tell people I knew someone famous! Actually, I showed everyone your picture because all my friends and family know about the CF and I wanted to prove you weren't imaginary after all, LOL.

Annie

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 8:13PM
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Bumblebeez SC Zone 7

Cook's Illustrated found the Fleischmann's pizza yeast (in pizza dough) tasteless. They did not recommend it.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 8:40PM
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foodonastump

Sharon - Yes, you're on my short list of famous friends, LOL! I'd have guessed that was two years ago though, no?

Bumblebeez - Thanks for mentioning that. I'll lower the intensity of my search. But I'd still like to try it. For those interested, here is the bulk of what CI said:

Given that the structure and flavor of a top-notch pizza crust come from ample fermentation, we were skeptical that dough made in so little time would be any good. When we mixed up a batch, our suspicions were confirmed. Although the dough was incredibly well behaved, stretching without snapping back and rising quickly during baking, its texture and flavor were unimpressive. The crust was leathery, not crisp, on the exterior and spongy and soft on the interior. WhatâÂÂs more, it was bland and devoid of the aromatic complexity that is produced in fermented dough. So weâÂÂll pass on this turbo-charged yeast, preferring to take our time and make pizza dough the old-fashioned way.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 8:52PM
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hawk307

Jojoco:
I said " some ". I didn't imply that all of the great cooks here are lacking in cooking skills.

I don't have any problems with everyone trying new Recipes.
I do it myself.

Sometimes I have problems wording things the right way.
If I said anything wrong, I apoligize.
As far as my Recipe, if you like it, use it.
If you don't like it, don't use it.
True, I use a little WW flour in mine. Like the texture.
Pizza Dough is basic. No big deal.

FOAS:
You are really pushing all the right buttons.

Dcarch:
I think the full moon just passed.
Some things just won't go away. Guess, I'll have to start Carving Crosses and Stakes, instead of Wildfowl.

Lou

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 10:25PM
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ann_t

FOAS, well you know from my previous posts that I agree with CI on the "ample fermentation".

Not to say you can't make an acceptable pizza crust with same day dough, but the texture and flavour of a dough that has been given a chance to develop through a longer cold fermentation really is superior.

Ann

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 10:38PM
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Teresa_MN

Chase - I bet it was fun! And I cannot wait to try your recipe. I have the end of the year Roma tomatoes ripening on my counter right now. Picked them 2 days ago. I might have to make the pizza on Sunday.

I have been emailing a gal named Loni for the past year to see if Penzeys would develop a "bebere" type seasoning so I don't have to make my own. It's a spicy Ethiopian seasoning that you can make a powder blend OR make a paste. I love it for all kinds of things. Especially stews served with Injere which is fermented teff made into a pancake type tortilla. They use Injere in place of a spoon for scooping up stews. There were two Ethiopian girls that came to Minnesota in the mid-80's to go to Augsburg College. They worked part time at the Hilton Hotel I worked at. One of their Moms came to town for 3 months. I was in heaven every time they invited me to dinner.

Thanks again!
Teresa

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 10:48PM
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foodonastump

Lou - "I" am the one who is pushing buttons?!?! If your comment that some people "think it is the the recipe at fault and they will keep trying others" wasn't directed at me, then I'm sorry, but there's a couple years of precedent at work here, of you giving me a hard time every time either on posts or on email every time I ask a pizza question. Yes, when I first started making pizza I had a hard time stretching the dough. That was many, many pizzas ago. I'm better now. Not perfect, but better.

I ALWAYS tell people I like you, Lou, and I do. But you piss me off sometimes, too. And if you're pissing off someone who considers you a friend, maybe that's worth thinking about.

Sorry, I should have probably be putting this in email but since you don't respond anymore I don't know if you get them. I'm sure it'll be deleted soon anyway. Good night.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 10:51PM
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jojoco

Lou wrote:
Jojoco:
I said " some ". I didn't imply that all of the great cooks here are lacking in cooking skills."

Lou,
Well that makes it so much better. Thanks for explaining it to me.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 9:03AM
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hawk307

Ann:
I don't make an acceptable dough. I think it is a very good Pizza Dough ( IMO ),
Maybe because I let it rise about 3 or 4 times before it is baked.
I like the Light , Crispy, bite through texture and the large End Crust.
But everyone to their own tastes.

Maybe you should have put ( IMO )after Superior.

There are millions of people making Pizza's every day.
Maybe some of them might think theirs is Superior ?

I'm not trying to put you down, your Pizza is good.
But everyone can't wait 3 days for Dough to rise.
Especially Pizzeria's
But I have had good Pizza's from everywhere in the Country.

For those who can wait, GREAT !!!

*****************************************************

FOAS:
Are you taking Goofy Pills or something ???
I don't remember giving you a hard time about anything.

Only tried to help you with Recipes or some other problems.
If that is the appreciation you show a friend, then don't consider me a friend.
And I won't bother you anymore.

You didn't say anything wrong, just voicing your opinion,
like everyone else.
Hey Thanks !!!
Lou

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 1:40PM
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Bumblebeez SC Zone 7

Lou, I read through you recipe again and it does only call for one rise. You did say it might have several rests while stretching the dough but that's not enough to develop aged flavor.
I am sure your pizza dough is perfectly fine...and I too usually don't have the forethought for an overnight aged dough but having had aged dough, it is my preference for great flavor.

Here's my tip for aged dough without waiting: Whole Foods. I adore their pizza dough and you can get it frozen- to go right back in the freezer.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 3:16PM
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triciae

FOAS,

Since I will not be able to cook again DH has had to really step up to the plate or, I should say, "stove" around here. He loves pizza during a football game. :)

He was VERY frustrated fighting fresh dough into a pizza. I laughed & that didn't help! (grin) Anyway, I had him switch to KA's "Italian 00" flour. At 8.5% it has a much lower gluten than the KA bread flour I used. The lower gluten solved his problems on the first try & we really like the crust it makes. It's a bit crispier on the bottom but the edges are still chewy with a few air pockets.

We are having pizza now once a week on Sunday afternoon. DH makes the dough while he's fixing Friday night dinner, tosses it in a plastic dough bucket, & into the refrigerator it goes until Sunday. He's using Claire de Luna's recipe made in the FP. It makes enough dough for two medium round pizzas. Around here, leftovers become Monday's lunch.

/tricia

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 4:12PM
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jimster

"... I will not be able to cook again..."

I must have missed something. That sounds drastic. Tricia, what is happening?

BTW, thanks for the pizza dough tips. I would love to have a dough that doesn't fight back.

Jim

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 5:13PM
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hawk307

Bumblebeez's:
Thank you !!! For taking the time to read through my recipe.
I did say one rise and put it in the pans, to rest.
But while it is resting and I'm cooking something else, it rises a little more , each time, it is stretched.
Then when it is out to the edge and up, I let it rise a little, before it is baked. This makes it Airy.

Sometimes I baste the end crust with egg and sprinkle with Garlic Powder.
Everyone loves the Dough and Crust. That's why I use this recipe.I'm not a hard headed Calabrese !!!

I've baked thousands of Pizza's, every which way you can imagine.
In the Pan, on the Stone. In outdoor brick ovens, I have built. Even in a gas fired Oven ( Korea ).
Did the 3 Day thing years ago, didn't find any difference.

I'm not bragging just telling where I'm at.

If no one liked my Pizza, I wouldn't make it this way and try the 3 day dough again.

But I like it too.

I said it before. ( and I'll be reminded of it ),
I've delivered Pizza's to homes next to, or adjacent to other Pizzeria's ( my competetion )

I don't have a Whole Foods Market here but there are places that sell dough. I've tried them.

Bumblebeez :
Maybe I am a hard headed Calabrese !!! It Beez like that.
Thank's for trying to help.
Lou XXXXXXXXXX

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 5:13PM
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jimster

Lou, you and I both posted at Sat, Oct 30, 10 at 17:13.

I don't think you are a hard headed Calabrese. And, despite despite what others have said, I don't think you are a soft headed Calabrese. i think you are a soft hearted Calabrese.

Jim

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 6:06PM
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jimster

Getting serious now, how can pizza dough be tamed so it doesn't fight and snap back?

It's the gluten, right, that gives dough its muscles? Does Lou's and other's long rests help? If so, how? Do I understand correctly that an addition of a small amount of vodka to pie crust dough makes it more tender by neutralizing the gluten? Hmm. Yeast fermentation produces alcohol. Does that have something to do with long rests relaxing the dough? I wonder.

Jim

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 6:21PM
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lindac

Maybe things have changed, but the chain mediocre pizza place my son worked for when he was 15, made the dough the day before it was to be used.
The pizza wasn't great but the crust was good.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 6:22PM
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Bumblebeez SC Zone 7

Jim, I have come to think that is why great dough must be stretched and not rolled.
I haven't seen it in a long time, but when I was growing up, there was an Italian pizzeria near me and they were always expertly twirling huge rounds of dough in the air.
I try and twirl too and it really does help to stretch the dough evenly, if of course, my twirling is pathetic.

The Whole Foods dough cannot be rolled. It is so elastic and squeaky.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 7:08PM
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dcarch7

Posted by bumblebeez ---------Jim, I have come to think that is why great dough must be stretched and not rolled. -------"

I am not sure there is a difference between stretching and rolling. both stretch the dough the same way, it seems to me.

In anycase, I am not sure how the glutten can be changed by either way.

dcarch

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 7:25PM
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foodonastump

dcarch/Jim/bumblebeez - I'm very interested in this turn of the debate. As referenced earlier, my early-on problem was stretching the dough. "They" said it had to be stretched, not rolled. Once I realized there were plenty of folks rolling their dough I followed suit and "POOF" no more problems.

I'm not adverse to thinking such subtleties make a difference. After all, in our quest for the perfect dough the ingredients themselves seem to be pretty much the same. Flour, water, yeast, salt, maybe oil maybe not. There's got to be something more elusive going on.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 7:45PM
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jimster

I don't have an opinion re rolling vs. stretching. i just wonder about how dough can be made more or less elastic. Does alcohol have something to do with it?

BTW, if anyone wants to learn twirling pizzas in the air, practice with a wet kitchen towel. Keep palms down and dough on top of knuckles. It's fun.

Jim

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 7:59PM
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dcarch7

Let me say that I am not an expert in dough making. I just know enogh to tell that there is such a thing as bad dough, but I don't know what is the perfect dough.

Regarding stretch or roll:

I think there is dough that can be rolled but not stretched, like pasta dough.

Then there is dough that can be stretched and can be rolled.

It is about taste and about texture. I don't think rolling or stretching can change taste or texture. Kneading can change texture.

dcarch

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 8:03PM
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hawk307

Jim:
Try a small batch of dough. I don't know if you use oiled pans ?

After the Dough has doubled , knead it again and weigh it out.
I use about 10 ounces for a 10 inch Pizza.
Roll it into a ball, put the smooth side up, into a pan.

Bang it down , to flatten slightly and stretch out a little.
Leave it rest but not fall asleep.

Find something else to cook. Maybe chopped Sausage, for a topping.
Go back to the dough, every so often, to stretch it out farther,
using the Palm of your hand and push it out with the side of your hand.
Do this until the Dough reaches the side and up about 1/2 inch.

Dock it ( or poke holes with a fork )so it doesn't bubble.

Let it rise slightly and put it in the oven, about 5 minutes. To freeze, bake until there are tan specks showing

Now you can either cool the Prebaked Dough and freeze it, for later, OR

Take it out and spread the Sauce and back in the oven, 5 minutes more.

Spread your toppings and bake til almost done, then spread the Cheese and bake til the crust is done .
If the bottom isn't browned take it out of the pan and place on the Stone, til browned.
Hope this helped.

Many of the Pizza Places make the Dough ahead of time.
So they won't be caught short.

Pagano's Pizzeria was one of the largest in Philly in the late 50's.
Pete Pagano was a friend and let me see his operation.
So I helped him a few days, to pick up some pointers.

He had undercounter Refrigeration for Pizza Dough, to stop them from rising,
so they wouldn't get out of control.

The dough was weighed and set in bowls with a lid, until used.

It was taken out about 15 minutes ahead of time, to a wooden worktop.
There was a 24 inch wide Dough roller at the end, which was used to flatten the Dough.
The ball of Dough was thrown in one side of the roller and caught on the other side, in a Pan.

At least 4 Doughs a minute could be stretched, maybe 7.
That's it folks. Email me for any info.
LOU

PS: Glutten, Shmuutten, Make some Pizza !!!

It was stretched out to the width of the Pan.
After it was a little warmed, it was finished by hand to the side and up for the end crust.

I used both Fresh dough and prebaked.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 8:26PM
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dcarch7

Lou,

Great tutorial. Thanks.

Safe to say that you have done more pizza than everyone here combined, and multiplied by a hundred.

dcarch

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 9:13PM
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Bumblebeez SC Zone 7

Well, in my experience, the doughs that taste best to me (aged dough) are so elastic, squeaky, and bubbly that they do not roll easily at all. Perhaps they could be slowly pressed and rolled out, but the stretching accomplishes the same thing faster.
The ordinary non aged dough I do roll out only because it rolls out easily.
I do think it's important not to break the gluten sac either way.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 9:33PM
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hawk307

Dcarch:
Don't say that. Someone will think I'm bragging.
Tune it down some.

But I have made a few.
Lou

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 9:43PM
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jimster

Lou,

Some day, Lord willing, I will eat one of your pizzas, a pizza with thousands of pizzas in its heritage (you have made a few). In the mean time i will continue to theorize about gluten and all sorts of other stuff, because i'm a theoretical kind of guy. it can't be helped.

jim

    Bookmark   October 30, 2010 at 10:31PM
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hawk307

Jim:
I appreciate what you are saying.If there was a way, I'd send you a few Pizza's.
Lou

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 12:06AM
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ann_t

There is no secret to rolling or stretching dough. Regardless of what method you use, if your dough isn't cooperating let it rest for a minute or two and then continue.

As for fresh dough verses a dough that has been given a long fermentation, I find that not only does the crust have a more developed flavour as well as texture, but it stretches or rolls out easier.

For those that are interested in experimenting and learning how to make a better pizza crust you might find this article interesting.

Ann

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 12:49AM
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jojoco

Dough that has been refrigerated for a day or two behaves perfectly and stretches out without a single objection. Fresh dough acts more like a petulant two year old.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 12:59AM
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jimster

"Fresh dough acts more like a petulant two year old."

LOLO!!! As father of three and grand father of five, that is a metaphor i can understand.

Hey, suppose we sic the petulant two year old on the intractable fresh dough? Seems like a fair match to me.

Jim

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 1:20AM
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cloudy_christine

Jimster, the alcohol in the pie crust recipe is important only because it's a liquid that is not water. Water is necessary for gluten formation; it combines with the the two gluten-forming proteins, gliadin and glutenin, to form gluten. No water, no gluten.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 8:51AM
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jimster

That's interesting, Christine. I didn't know that. Kinda blows my theory about resting the dough out of the water, doesn't it?

Of course, 80 proof vodka is only 40 per cent alcohol. The rest is water.

Jim

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 11:07AM
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hawk307

I read the article and I guess I'm doing something wrong,
Because I've never experienced all the bad tastes.
And especially the petulant dough.
*****************************************
From the Artical:
But experienced bakers and pizza-makers know that this is not the best way to make dough. Though yeast produces carbon dioxide rapidly at high temperatures, it also produces undesirable flavors. Rather than tasting rich and complex, hastily made breads have the one-dimensional flat flavor of the flour, and sometimes even develop off flavors, like sour milk .

This guy must be a Salesman for Dough Refrigeration units.

He should contact every Pizzeria in the USA and tell them about their bad tasting Pizza.

Honestly, if I made one Pizza that tasted as described in the Article, I wouldn't make anymore.
Like everyone say's, " To each his own ".

Lou

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 11:48AM
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lorijean44

"This guy must be a Salesman for Dough Refrigeration units."

"Dough Refrigeration Units"?? You mean, like... a refrigerator??

Um... I have one of those.

I don't always give my dough a few days in the fridge, but I do appreciate what I consider to be the better flavor when I do. I find the texture and flavor to be more like the pizzarias back in NY.

Lori

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 12:13PM
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triciae

There is another way to squeeze a bit better flavor out of first day dough nobody's mentioned. For every batch of pizza dough you make, hold back 1/4 cup of fermented dough. Place it in a Zip-Lock bag, push out the air, and freeze. The next time you make pizza, remove the Zip-Lock of prior dough & allow it to sit for about an hour at room temperature. Add it to the new dough as your adding the flour. Then, after that new dough has risen take out 1/4 cup & freeze. Doesn't have to be pizza - works to improve flavor for any type yeast doughs. It won't be the same as a full 3 day fermentation but it does make a noticeable improvement. Your frozen starters will last 2-3 months in the freezer. The draw back is that you can't exactly duplicate each new dough since each of your starters will be slightly different.

/tricia

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 1:09PM
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lindac

Yeah....Italian bread makers call that a Biga...I went through a period where I always had a biga in my refrigerator for the next batch of dough, either bread, pizza or dinner rolls.
Guess I have gotten lazy.... But it really does make a huge difference in the flavor of your dough.
Linda C

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 2:31PM
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Teresa_MN

"This guy must be a Salesman for Dough Refrigeration units."
"Dough Refrigeration Units"?? You mean, like... a refrigerator??

Nope - he means just what he said. There are special stainless units that are built to fit under stainless work stations. The drawers are shallow and are usually 4 or 6 to a stack. The pizza dough drawers are 6" deep and I believe controlled humidity figures into it. It is easy to roll or toss one pizza and grab another ball of dough from a drawer below your work station without leaving the space you are standing in.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 2:42PM
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lorijean44

Oy. Thank you for your interminable knowledge, Teresa.

I believe most of us are talking about making pizza dough at home. Unnecessary to buy a dough refrigeration unit when I've got that tall cooling appliance in the kitchen...

Lori

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 3:50PM
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ann_t

Funny thing, I have one of those too Lori. LOL!

It is easy and doesn't really take any more time when making bread dough to whip up a double batch. Bake bread with half and put the other half in the "Dough Refrigeration unit" and leave it for a couple of days.

Then when you are ready to make pizza all you have to do is take the dough out of the fridge a few hours in advance so it will have time to come to room temperature.

I often make a triple batch of dough on one of my days off. That way I can bake bread from dough that has had a longer fermentation as well as a few days later make either more bread or pizza.

Ann

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 4:41PM
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lindac

I have 2 of them!!!! One in the basement....and it's really good for storing wine, beer, extra apples.....and dough for bread.
I try hard not to forget what's in the "lower level cold storage" box.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 4:48PM
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caliloo

"I try hard not to forget what's in the "lower level cold storage" box."

The one I have in the garage is often referred to as The Black Hole. Lots of beer, wine and sodas but any food that goes down there must be cosumed within a day or two or it is forgotten. Especially if it has the misfortune of ending up in the drawer......

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 5:27PM
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foodonastump

Tricia - That biga... gotta try it, thanks. Sounds like a viable solution while I work on my neverending quest to be able to plan a meal more than the morning of.

What I find so interesting about pizza dough debates is that the ingredients rarely change. Like I said above, flour, water, yeast, salt. Maybe oil. From the site Ann linked, evidently sugar is a controvertial addition. I know my mom uses it; I do not. With such a short ingredients list, it's amazing what differing results people have. Obviously the treatment of these ingredients plays a huge part in the outcome. I also noted that while there were disagreements in the many comments following the article, in my quick skim I didn't notice a single one that discredited the benefit of a several day slow rise in the chill chest. The only time I tried a long rise was when Ann steered us to "Canadave's" recipe on the pizza making forum. IIRC, at the time she declared it the best crust ever. I guess she kept on experimenting despite having found the best crust, because these days her best crust is JC's dough. Good for her. Anyway, that was back in the day that I couldn't round out pie to save my life. Might be time to have another go at it.

I'm pizza'd out right now, but in the next few days I'll stop by the place that IMO makes the best pizza I've ever had, anywhere, take a picture and post it. Though it's very close to home I don't go there often, probably not in a couple years. Too expensive and their use of a bag instead of box while probably environmentally friendly, results in a cold pie by the time it takes the short drive home. I find that annoying.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 5:38PM
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ann_t

FOAS, It was just Canadave's long fermentation method that I was experimenting with. And will continue to do so.

I've been using Julia's french bread dough for pizza for a long time. Before that it was an Italian Ciabatta bread dough I used. But as you mentioned above, bread regardless of whether Italian or French or whatever, is basically just flour, yeast, salt and water. I don't mind a little oil in the mix, but I never add sugar.

Ann

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 6:00PM
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triciae

FOAS, I consider adding sugar to bread (other than a sweet type dough) as a way to manage time rather than a ingredient. If you're in a hurry & want the dough to raise a bit faster...add a tablespoon of sugar. The faster rise though comes at the cost of flavor from the wheat (the sugar adds a touch of flavor but that tablespoon isn't enough to have much affect).

Without the addition of sugar the longer fermentation will take because it just takes time for the yeast to break down the wheat's complex carbohydrates into sugar.

Whether, or not, I add sugar depends entirely on my needs of the moment. If I want French bread for a dinner party that I didn't know I was having until noon...I'll add that tablespoon of sugar. I don't have any mantra not to use sugar - I just prefer the enhanced flavor a long, cool rise provides. There isn't, IMO, a right nor wrong. I just know that I'm making a trade-off of fast over flavor. All homemade bread is good so, sometimes, that trade-off is OK for me.

You're right about the basic ingredients. If it were not for how we manage those ingredients plus how we chose to control time, handling, shaping techniques, & baking procedures, etc. all white breads would taste the same. Pretty boring.

/tricia

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 7:15PM
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annie1992

Domino's and Little Cesar's has also made about a zillion pizzas, but that doesn't make them good pizzas, quantity doesn't necessarily equate to a pizza that everyone will love. Amanda and Dave regularly buy Little Cesar's pizza, not because it's good but because it's $5.

I don't think anyone has a corner on the pizza making market because we all like different things.

For instance, I made a widely/loudly bragged about pizza dough recipe at Christmas time and it was abysmal. It was too dry, needed a lot of extra moisture and was horrible to work with. Even the Zojirushi couldn't knead it well enough. Other people tried it and loved it, apparently, but it sure didn't work for me. Now, it could have been me but I've been baking bread and working with various doughs for nearly 50 years and I couldn't make that dough "work" well.

Elery told me to throw it away and use another recipe, but I was determined to save it. I eventually got a usable dough, but I should have thrown it out.

Annie

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 7:20PM
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dcarch7

Posted by annie1992 "-------I don't think anyone has a corner on the pizza making market because we all like different things. -----"

That says it all.

In addition, pizzas taste different to someone who eats one slice per month and someone who eats it everyday for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

One thing perhaps is true for all, no one likes a soggy pizza.

dcarch

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 7:46PM
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