Farrow and Ball dark color isn't covering well

threeapplesApril 23, 2013

We had a coat of dark primer and two coats of FB Railings on new drywall. It doesn't look great. The painter wants to add the same color in a shinier finish on top to mask the patchiness. He did this in our basement with a navy and it didn't help. One wall has 3 coats of the paint and still looks bad. What can we do? The photo doesn't illustrate the patchiness, but you might get the idea.

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Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

What kind of primer? A higher sheen is going to make things worse. This painter does not sound right to me.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 3:54AM
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lazy_gardens

Did they start by using a drywall primer/sealer?

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 8:00AM
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threeapples

They used a Sherwin Williams primer tinted very dark. I won't allow a sheen put on top because we see in the basement it does not help. For some reason lots of our walls look patchy, even lighter colors. What can we do about this room in particular? Add a 4 th coat?

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 8:38AM
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threeapples

Yes, they started with drywall primer/sealer. Is that bad?

    Bookmark   April 24, 2013 at 10:22AM
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snookums2

What sheen is the F&B? I believe darker colors do take more coats. I did dark once and must have put four coats on but did eventually get it even and looking good. Probably had to watch my lapping technique too. My first painting attempt, lol.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2013 at 1:01AM
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threeapples

This is Estate Emulsion, which I think is 2% sheen. I have no idea why it looks so shiny in the photo, but I dislike the sheen seen there.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2013 at 7:26AM
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kitchendetective

Have you tried calling Farrow and Ball and discussing this with them?

There is a U.K. discussion forum about paint, which I read occasionally when I stumble upon it (it's hilarious, at times), and a number of people have complained about coverage problems with F & B. Personally, I have used Radicchio, Red Earth, Teresa's Green, Blue Ground, Arsenic, Cook's Blue, and Pale Powder, at various times. Radicchio was painted over a Gripper base tinted dark gray and it took four coats. That was Estate Emulsion, but it does not appear like the characteristically velvety, flat surface of the other examples of E.E. that I have. The other time that I had coverage problems was with Pale Powder on my laundry room ceiling. In that case, I am convinced that it was my technique that was the problem: highly textured surface combined with not enough paint on the roller. I used 3/4" nap roller covers in the best quality that I could obtain. On another note, F & B cautions against having its product shipped during temperature extremes, high or low. Is it possible that the paint you received is damaged?

(edited to add link)

Here is a link that might be useful: I'm sure you have this link, but just in case

This post was edited by kitchendetective on Wed, May 1, 13 at 11:07

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 8:06AM
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pirula

My experience with F&B on walls is that it always looks better with three coats with Estate Emulsion. Two is enough with Modern Emulsion unless it's very dark in which case three was the ticket (Downpipe and Brinjal). I think it's your painter, or perhaps the paint is damaged.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 11:22AM
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pirula

P.S. That doesn't look like Estate Emulsion finish to me.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2013 at 11:23AM
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threeapples

I checked the can. That's what it is. How should I have the painter handle it?

This post was edited by threeapples on Sat, May 4, 13 at 9:23

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 8:37AM
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kitchendetective

Have him call F & B for technical advice.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 10:24AM
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kitchendetective

It looks like there is space between his paint columns. Also, he may be pressing too hard on the roller and rolling paint off instead of onto the surface. Can you get a better photo so that if F & B asks for one, you'll be able to provide it?

This post was edited by kitchendetective on Sat, May 4, 13 at 17:15

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 11:37AM
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pirula

Good advice. I don't get it, Estate emulsion has no sheen at all practically. Perhaps they've changed their formula. Definitely call F&B and ask their advice.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2013 at 1:42PM
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pirula

Threeapples, any luck?.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2013 at 9:36PM
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Faron79

I almost hate to say this, but I'm putting 98% blame on the technique...with a 2% allowance for possible equipment shortcomings.

I don't lightly say this either!
In my decade in retail paint, and painting @ home (even using FPE!), I'm convinced that HALF of "Professional" painters would be better off selling cars. There are many TRUE painting magicians tho'! The guys who did our high entry-wall over a stairwell are true Pro's...flawless job.

>>> Paint color "X" simply CAN'T look different ON IT'S OWN in different places. If I sent a C2 color out to 10 different jobs, and then went to look at them a week later, there would be TEN slightly different versions.
>>> A couple may be near-flawless. Most would be passable. A couple would be "Oh Dear God....".
>>> Soooooo....where does the variation lie here...??? ;-)

My own painting at home....flawless...no uneven "shading/banding", etc. My ONE (on purpose) coat of FPE in my bathroom...perfect.

I couldn't be a "For hire" painter tho'!
My devastating good looks would be too distracting for most clients....;-) !!!

Faron

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 9:49AM
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kitchendetective

Your looks and your charm!

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 12:17PM
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kitchendetective

Pirula,
Perhaps the apparent sheen is an artifact of the flash?

(edited to erase duplicate post)

This post was edited by kitchendetective on Sat, May 11, 13 at 12:26

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 12:19PM
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iPaint1

Honestly, dark colors always have a problem with lap lines in flat or near flat finishes. (2% sheen falls into that category). And FB is no different. Just because they're expensive doesn't mean a thing. There are many Sherwin Williams, PPG and other paints as good if not better. But the fact is, for most manufacturers, adding a lot of tint to a flat finish causes flashing. Many tints have a slight sheen to them so adding tints to a flat paint causes a flash where a paint doesn't know whether to be a flat or a sheen above. That's probably why your painter wanted to go with a satin to see if it would blend in better and stop flashing. As far as the guy who worked at a retail paint store... technique is very important. But sometimes even the best painters (after doing this for more than 35 years and having 2 sons run the business now, I've seen them all), have issues with the greatest paint. The paint stores never thought their paint was the issue, as most of the workers there paint once every 3 months and don't deal with real construction site conditions, especially new drywall, which is what your painter is dealing with. In fact, most of the paint store workers, never knew that much about the paint in real world conditions, only what the marketing department tells them it will do. Just like any industry, marketing is the most important in the paint industry. There's all sorts of gimmicks labeled on the can, and just because FB charges a lot for their paint and is supposed to be the best, doesn't mean you won't see things like flashing, with their paint. You can try putting another coat on. Lots of times with new drywall, even a primer and 1 or 2 top coats is not building the amount of millage required to hide drywall fuzz, flashing from porous drywall etc..

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 5:02PM
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snookums2

Threeapples, you might want to look into Gardz as your primer. Jack Pauhl uses it to achieve fine finishes and recommends it for bare drywall. Check out his site for how he uses it. He has a few articles on it.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 7:09PM
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pirula

New drywall here, dark colors, F&B and no flashing. And DIY.

Could be kitchen detective, but I don't think so. That looks like Modern Emulsion to me, but I guess it isn't, so it must be the flash?

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 7:48PM
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PRO
Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

Threeapples, you might want to look into Gardz as your primer. Jack Pauhl uses it to achieve fine finishes and recommends it for bare drywall. Check out his site for how he uses it. He has a few articles on it.

I have already warned you not to believe all that you read. JP is not a painting GOD and all that he posts is not from the painting bible. Gardz will work but it is not necessarily the best product for new drywall.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 4:34AM
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PRO
Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

Besides, this was already primed.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 4:35AM
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pirula

Maybe the paint was still wet when picture was taken, hence the sheen. 2% is practically nothing and its described as matte by the company (and is so in my experience).

Anyway, I do hope threeapples was able to resolve this and will take the time to update us.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2013 at 9:11AM
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snookums2

christoph, are you saying I am not allowed to post? And that he isn't either? I don't know what your problem with him is. That's his opinion for fine finishes, even if it differs from yours. He does a lot of testing and research so I think he brings a lot to the table. I do not believe he is a lousy painter. People can take his advice or leave it, as with anything else.

    Bookmark   May 13, 2013 at 1:48PM
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snookums2

"Besides, this was already primed."

I was referring to using it for other work she might have to do in other rooms.

    Bookmark   May 13, 2013 at 1:54PM
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threeapples

The paint had been dry for a few weeks when the photo was taken and I did not use a flash.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 6:11PM
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pirula

Beats me then.

We're they able to fix it I hope??

    Bookmark   May 24, 2013 at 7:10PM
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threeapples

Painter says he can't get it any better. I'm going to have to do it myself. FB said its not the way it should look and is the cheap primer's fault.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 8:27AM
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pirula

For what it's worth, its great paint to work with, ive done all the painting here. I've used the F&B primer and it works very well. The c2 primer is also excellent in my experience and works beautifully with F&B. I recommend you start over with primer first....

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 8:31AM
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kitchendetective

Thank you for updating us. Some of us have had such nice experiences with F & B that it's disconcerting to hear of these travails. (It is the only paint that I have used that doesn't cause migraines when I do the painting.) Now, I'm wondering if the drywall mud (it is drywall, yes?) was sufficiently dry before the primer was applied. Also, I may have forgotten, what kind of primer was used?

    Bookmark   May 26, 2013 at 9:07AM
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threeapples

The majority of our house is FB paint and its fantastic. My painter used a Sherwin Williams primer. The drywall had been dry for months. In my experience Sherwin Williams paint is sub par.

    Bookmark   May 27, 2013 at 1:38PM
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paintguy22

I have never used F&B, but I don't think that matters. This is a problem normal painters have using dark colors since the paints became all acrylics. The problem is usually the location of windows and the location of the wall being painted. I mean...is that a ceiling? This is the reason people will say that they used the same product and it looked perfect. Each room is different because of the way the light from the windows hit the surface being painted. If you want to fix this problem, then spray it!

    Bookmark   May 27, 2013 at 2:38PM
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threeapples

The white is the ceiling, the wood is the floor, and the blue is the wall. For some reason my photo looks sideways when I view this post on my phone.

    Bookmark   May 27, 2013 at 6:10PM
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threeapples

Just wanted to update: the painter agreed to repaint this one wall. He used a color match of Railings in Benjamin Moore Royal Matte. The wall looks perfect now and the color match is exact.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2013 at 10:08PM
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eleisejones

threeapples, this is a late follow-up, but do you happen to remember the name/number of the Benjamin Moore match for F&B Railings?

    Bookmark   January 19, 2015 at 8:51PM
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