estrangement from adult children

ruth3dogsJuly 16, 2010

There seems to be a very common thread with all these postings - adult children, that have come from (in most cases) normal upbringings, had most things given to them, including money, but have still turned out to be unappreciative, nasty adults. My eldest daughter is exactly the same. I swear, she hates me. From a very early age, she has verbally abused me, if I said something was black, she'd say it was white. I often wondered who was the adult, her or me. I felt useless when being with her, and as a result, felt like a nothing. She moved out of the house a couple of years ago, and only really visits on weekends to pick her younger sister up, to visit her on weekends. She has had a boyfriend since May 2009, and moved in with him last April. She has given me a couple of things, lately, only to take them back, with the last one, gave it back to me the next day, only because I reminded her little sister, that I was deeply offended by what she had done. I have reminded her on a couple of occasions that she is two-faced, which is something her brother has also told her. She wouldn't dream of treating her friends the way she treats me, but she still does it. She lacks any kind of conscience or empathy. I remember, earlier this year, breaking down on the phone to her, sobbing uncontrollably, because of the way both her and her sister completely ignored me, and went out shopping leaving me in a big house on my own, not caring if I lived or died, and all she could say was that she had no time for this (me crying about being left alone,) the girl has no soul. Has it ever occurred to any of you, that all these problems are a direct result of all the adults (kids) having a mental disorder, more over, they are all NARCISSISTS!! I am actually going to a psychologist next week, just so that I can learn some skills on how to best cope with all the crap, mind games, conniving, sneaky and devious things she does. Theyre very good at throwing the Âbombs and running away before they explode, hoping never to take the blame. She does things that she knows pushes my buttons, she knows I will react, and waits till I confront her with whatever she has just done, will deny them all, knowing full well that I will explode, and then she can say to herself, and anyone else that will listen: "See, she's the crazy one, not me." That's what all Narcissistic people do - push you until you think you are the crazy one, or everything that has gone wrong in their life, is your fault, never theirs. I have always apologised to her for yelling at her, after she has upset me, because, in my mind, someone has to do the adult thing and try to put things right, but it has just occurred to me, that she has NEVER apologised for causing the problem, that made me yell at her, in the first place. They are unbelievable  narcissists, they think they are always right, and everyone else is wrong. This is what I'm getting from all these posts, that these brats have never apologised for discarding their parents so easily. Both myself, and her father have bent over backwards-giving her everything she wanted (that's probably where all the problems began,) but she has shown absolutely no appreciation, at all. IÂm now convinced that she has taken us both for granted. I am also of the belief that she is also brainwashing her younger sister, because she's not as nice as she used to be, but that could be the 'growing-up' process, but considering the disgusting e-mails they send to each other, maybe I am right, that she is getting sucked into her vicious web, as well. It's embarrassing to admit to, but I, like a couple of other posts IÂve read, have wished I never had her, more to the point, that she was dead, that way I know the problem would be over and I can mourn, and eventually, as with all deaths, that person, just becomes a very distant memory, with some people you will always miss them, but people like her, youÂre just glad not to have to interact with them ever again.

IÂve even ripped up some of her photos, because IÂm so furious with her. A couple of weeks ago, when she came to pick up her sister for their usual weekend get-togethers, she started on about this wonderful job, sheÂd just landed, and that she will be getting more money than the one, sheÂs just left, and how her boyfriend had also landed another job, before leaving his partnership to start with another firm, where he will be earning $140,000 per year  brag, brag, brag. She was so excited about it, and went on and on for a long time  the most sheÂs bothered to say to us for a very long time, and nothing about how we were going  selfish, as always. SheÂs said nothing to us since, and as usual, doesnÂt bother to ask how weÂre going. If thereÂs nothing to say about herself, then she doesnÂt ask about us. I just shake my head in disbelief, how utterly selfish she is. I even sent her an e-mail, at the beginning of the week, where I asked her a question but she didnÂt bother to answer it. Just another way of ignoring me  it just never ends.

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I am almost glad to be distanced from my sons. When I moved I didn't know how to notify either one of them. If I died my family wouldn't know how to notify them. Then after thinking about our situation, I got an unlisted number. I have not had one problem in 5 years. Ahhh...... Oh, one son called my Mom's number and luckily my sis was there and she thought I should talk to him. I told her no and she scolded me for not giving him a chance. When she wouldn't give him my phone number she found out why I wouldn't talk to him. She was quite shocked at his language.

    Bookmark   July 16, 2010 at 6:27PM
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"I am actually going to a psychologist next week, just so that I can learn some skills on how to best cope with all the crap, mind games, conniving, sneaky and devious things she does."

It's good that you've sought counseling for this as it will help you to cope and also learn about your own part in this dynamic. I've been there. Hopefully they will provide you with good books to read. I would start reading about manipulation.

"There seems to be a very common thread with all these postings - adult children, that have come from (in most cases) normal upbringings, had most things given to them, including money, but have still turned out to be unappreciative, nasty adults."

Well, yes that is part of the problem. Yes, a lot of children who have been given too much learn to mistreat others, especially people who have never had to take responsibility for their poor choices as mommy and daddy were always there to fix things. As a result their expectations of others is unrealistic and unreasonable. They think the world owes them. Sadly, they will go out into the world and expect others to cater to their needs just as mommy and daddy took care of them and taught them what to expect from others. They will eventually mistreat their friends, coworkers and others. They may not behave this way initially, but eventually will mistreat others when they don't get their way.

"Has it ever occurred to any of you, that all these problems are a direct result of all the adults (kids) having a mental disorder, more over, they are all NARCISSISTS!!"

Yes, it is narcissism and it is on the rise. I've dealt with it in my own family, although in reverse--my parents, sisters and especially my in-laws and sister-in-law. It is always all about them.

"That's what all Narcissistic people do - push you until you think you are the crazy one, or everything that has gone wrong in their life, is your fault, never theirs."

Yes, this is how they behave and they never take responsibility for their actions. Someone will always make excuses for them and they will exclaim, "I didn't intend too." One will never hear a heartfelt, sincere apology. At times they may sound sincere, but they will tell you to get over it and accuse you of being unforgiving. Then they will continue to act and behave as they always have and learned. Why? Because it works and there are others who will always make excuses for their behaviors.

"Both myself, and her father have bent over backwards-giving her everything she wanted (that's probably where all the problems began,) but she has shown absolutely no appreciation, at all."

Yes, this is correct people do not act grateful nor do they appreciate when everything has been handed to them. It will not matter how much you try to tell them what you had to sacrifice. You will need to learn to stand up for yourself and to set boundaries and limits on her behaviors.

I wish you good luck with this issue...

    Bookmark   July 22, 2010 at 1:26PM
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I am not sure as to why adult children behave as though their disowned parent is viewed so badly.

I do agree with some of the comments about them being spoiled, having a lot of things without earning them, selling out to the highest bidding parent.

In any case. It seems as though in their short yrs on earth - in comparison to those of their parents - they have all the answers. All the reasons. All the justifications.

I do understand the devastation divorce brings upon our children's lives. I also know how it destroys a lot of people in the family structure. I also know that we do our best as parents and sometimes it is not enough and get blamed, hated and mistreated by the very children we so love.
Every time I said "Oh, my kids would never do that" they made a fool of me and did "JUST THAT". Being a fool is not something I care as much about as being hurt for no damned reason.

Oh I am sure we can pick any damned thing I ever said to make me look like a failure. But I never deserved being hated and ignored and despised as I am.

I birthed them. I loved them. I taught them so many things. I supported their games. No I am not entitled to love just for those things, my point is that I did them from a place of bonding, a place of love. Those times were supposed to bring us together and teach both sides to have patience and love. NO we did not always say and do the right things and I ALWAYS apologized and called attn to my failings. They took that and ran.

At 45 I cannot believe I have lost my kids to my ex who has tons of money. I am poor. I have no insurance. No money. I have a degree but stayed home to raise kids as per my ex insistence. I opened a business and employers now really dont consider it worthy of experience no matter how you market yourself.

The economy slashed many of us - notably single moms who stayed at home. With the loss of a spouse, home, medical care and now my own children - I find it hard to care about myself. I feel like I was used as a vessel to donate my two children to my idiot ex and his barren wife. I did the hard work while he was out loving building his high powered career.

I sit alone day in and out - keep trying to keep on. They say you have your kids when things are bad. I sure don't.

No support. NO money for therapist. No nothing. Just me. Alone. Broke. And yes. This is pitiful. I hate myself now because my ex and my children hate me. I believe I am worthless now because of how badly they have treated me.

I am not a drinker or drug user. I dont sleep around. I finally agree with them by saying I am not worth anything based on their actions. If I were worth it, this would never have happened. NEVER. The pain keeps me in tears almost 24 7. I am severely depressed. I have panic attacks now. I feel so alone.

Can someone relate?

    Bookmark   August 10, 2010 at 8:00PM
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No one is worthless. Their actions are THEIRS not yours, and it does not mean you have no value. Look at your self with fresh eyes instead of dwelling on the past. If you were a stranger looking at you what would you see. Take a pencil and paper and list all your good points, not from your prospective but from that strangers. Get yourself out of the place you are in and do something and be with other people.

Start with small steps.Evaluate your skills. What can you do in your community to help other people. Often helping others is a way to help yourself.

Know that you are not responsible for the way things turned out. You tried your best and that's all any one of us can do.

My sister was in the same boat a long time ago. She was the one who took care of the kids and house. Her husband was almost nonexistant. He had the affair--he moved his lover into a house they had bought as an investment property. When it came to the split the kids sided with their dad and blamed my sister for the divorse.

Many years later she has her kids back and a good life. She did keep the lines of communication open and let them know she was there and would welcome them back, no questions asked. It wasn't easy but it got results.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2010 at 5:32PM
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carrieanna, wow, that is just devastating. I'm so sorry you are going through this. What horrible feelings to have.

But don't allow these people (your ex and his new wife), to DEFINE you. You have worth, you have value.

Do not allow this to happen....rise up, and see yourself as God sees you; as worthy, as decent, and of great value.

NEVER let someone else define you!

If your children are not interested in you - others will be. You can volunteer at a shelter, or someplace where there are kids, that will ease the lonliness...perhaps working in a daycare center.

You have much to give - don't give in to despair!

    Bookmark   August 25, 2010 at 5:17PM
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"The pain keeps me in tears almost 24 7. I am severely depressed. I have panic attacks now. I feel so alone."

"Can someone relate".

Yes. I've often felt very alone and have also suffered severe depression.

If you cannot afford to see a therapist, I wonder if you can see a doctor? Depression can be treated and I would urge you to seek treatment. Is there anyone else that you could trust, such as a good friend or even a member of the clergy that you could talk too about your situation? They may be able to help you problem-solve to find some solutions.

Also exercise can do wonders for you physically. It will help your mood and is good at clearing out the cobwebs so to speak.

I agree with the other two posters with the exception of helping others. I think you need to take care of yourself first, before you can help others. It sounds like you are in no condition to try to help others, and in fact, it may be the wrong choice for you in your emotional/mental state. Allow yourself time to do what you need to feel better about you.

"If I were worth it, this would never have happened. NEVER."

This is untrue. Self-examination is always beneficial, however beating yourself up is counter-productive. The first thing you need to do is see a doctor or get help for the depression. What you said above is the type of thinking that depressed people often say and feel. You do need help, so I would urge you to seek it.

Another good resource is NAMI, which you can look up online. There may be an organization in your area. Clinical depression, which it sounds like you may have is considered a type of mental illness. It's biological and can be treated. Please do that for yourself. You deserve to help yourself.

Good luck to you...

    Bookmark   August 26, 2010 at 1:44AM
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My son has not spoken with me for several years. Despite the fact that he is paying a lot of money to see a therapist, he still won't let go of his anger and move on. His therapist says he is the MOST stubborn person he has ever met!
I see from these forums that I am not alone in having a child that is narcissitic and feels 'entitled' to have everything handed to him. From what I have read on the subject, this newer generation is like that! Developmental Psychologists have had to coin a new term to describe them...Emerging Adults! They take much more time to mature emotionally, want everything handed to them and feel entitled. They can have good educations and intelligence, but still act quite immature! There has never been such a self-oriented generation before!

I blame it on the bad advise us parents got in the 1980's to "build our children's self-esteem! Well, now we are paying for it! There is proof now that this advice has backfired! Studies are proving this! Good grief!

Hang in there fellow parents with estranged kids, hopefully by the time they reach their 30's life will have kicked some sense into them!

    Bookmark   September 9, 2010 at 11:02AM
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All you can do is to respect his process and however long he needs and it takes for him to work through his feelings. If you push or become indignant at his process you will risk further alienating him. I don't believe that narcissists generally outgrow their glaring deficiencies and self-absorbed natures.

I'm curious how you know what he discusses with his therapist as client/patient/therapist discussions are personal and confidential. If the therapist revealed these discussions, etc., that would be not only unethical and unprofessional but also a violation of privacy. If he told you this himself, then I wonder why he would feel compelled to share that information with you.

It is my understanding that narcissism is on the rise. I'd also heard that baby boomers were considered the "me generation" and seen by their parents as a selfish generation. It wouldn't be a surprise if selfish people also raised narcissists as well.

There's a huge difference between the concept of developing self-esteem as opposed to creating a narcissist--people with an inflated opinion of themselves and lacking in any empathy towards others.

I'm not overly optimisstic about the furture of narcissists emotionally maturing. Narcissism is classified as a character disorder and generally speaking people who exhibit narcissism generally do not outgrow a character disorder. That sucks for everyone who has to deal with these people, not just their parents, but for anyone who happens to unfortunately be involved with them socially--acquaintances, co-workers, etc., basically anyone who gets in their way gets sucked into their path of emotional destruction.

A future of self-absorbed, thoughtless, manipulative whiners with entitlement issues doesn't bode well for our culture. It's a depressing thought...

    Bookmark   September 9, 2010 at 11:56PM
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Hi ruth3dogs...and everyone else within this forum. Wow! So I'm not ALONE after all. I'm not generally one who chooses the net for discussions other than newspaper forums but I was so desperate today I felt the need to locate other Moms who are in my position and it's nice to know I can vent my emotional pain within these forum walls.

Ruth, everything for which you wrote resonated so clearly in my head and everyone else the same with your commentary also.

My daughter is 22 yrs. old now and we were once so close in spirit, our thought patterns, our taste of clothing, music, books etc...that almost everyone who knew us called us the 'Gilmore Girls' because that's precisely who we reminded everyone of. Not now, not anymore.

I raised my daughter all by myself having left my ex husband and divorced his psychotic ass when she was only 14 mos. old. He was never a father never has been; I used to include and he never will be a father but with the way my life's going concerning the estrangment between my daughter and I the chances are he'll probably end up becoming her best friend (insert sarcasm here) because my life has non ending drama...I could flag a ship to Timbuktu and I'd still end up with drama. Oh and of course because I did everything and the louse ex never ever even paid child support until I went after him only 3 yrs. ago it would be my downfall for my only child to suddenly want him in her life...she never did. I do not have any respect for any parent who chooses to use their child or children as a weapon. My daughter made it clear since I left and she was mature enough to make her own decision that she wanted him out of her life. Here's the thing, I was a wonderful Mom and still am. I refuse to allow my 22 yr. old to manipulate me into thinking that I was how she put it "adequate" insulting.

All I know is our last correspondence was via email and she ripped me apart with such verbally abusive daggers of hate that I'm still perplexed as to why? I know why, she's in her final year of University and not only do I have to contend with her condescending and volatile 'me me me' attitude I also know that her professor's are GOD to her and that's pretty amusing considering the fact that she's an athiest. I'm a very intelligent woman, no I don't have doctrines nor degrees lining my walls as I don't need or require accolades to make me feel good about myself however my daughter's whole world exists upon discussions pertaining to 'theories' and 'theory' and my gosh it's like her Papa my Dad said to me to make me feel better about this rotten situation when I told him there's absolutly no conversing with her anymore, he stated quite bluntly "You don't talk to my granddaughter, you LISTEN to her!"

My family was being very supportive but the preface for me hitting this forum is because my own Mom who is a senior is playing my daughter and I against one another and my daughter is playing my Mom against me.

Apparently I'm uneducated with no brain in my daughter's mind and Ruth when you stated I say black and she says white along with the comment about your child acting as if they are the parent, boy could I relate to you and that!!! I raised my daughter to be a hard working, honest and caring lady, I was home 24/7 throughout her youth, I would not leave her alone like other drugged out partying crappy parents who's children became latch key kids, fed themselves, took care of themselves etc......I never went out until she turned 16/17 and that's a given. I never ever left her with any care providers other than my own parents who by the way did not assist in cutting me their own daughter a break by taking her once in a while, rather once in a blue moon and a very long one at that.

I was that Mom who went that extra millions of miles to do things for her child, like staying awake after having worked a 14 hr. day at times (I was a property mgr/super/my work was home thus not requiring daycare which would have helped regardless), and creating holiday gift packs for her classes from JK straight through to grade 7...all holidays; I designed her halloween costumes and one of the nasty things she said to me in that final email was about making them. Oh my gosh, she's verbally abrupt, she knows everthing (or so she thinks at 22), she's corrected my own parents who are a helluva lot wiser than all of us. She's put words into my mouth, misconstrued everything I have said and the worst part is she's lying about so many moments between us and she is BELIEVING those lies and thus pathological tendencies come to mind and it scares the bejesus out of me simply because my ex was mentally ill and I can't control heredity, nor DNA nor our gene structure; I am not looking for a convenient scapegoat to explain how cruel and vicious my only child has become to me but I do know the older she gets the more traits she shares with my ex husband. Okay you guys I'm open for suggestion 'cause I have so much building up inside of me I want to crawl up into a tiny ball and blow away at times...but I won't I'm far too strong for that! What gives with the youth of today? Yes we were no different in how we treated out parents when their age, but there is one huge difference it was called rebellion and generally hit at 15....these young 'adults' are truly living in their own little Me Me Me Land.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2010 at 3:16PM
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Dear Carrieanna,

I just read your post now I thought I caught them all but most likely missed a few. You are NOT worthless and you are indeed very special; you are a human being like the rest of us and please don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise. I'm almost in the same boat, I married a really messed up guy, I did my best to persevere...there's oh so much involved but I must keep some particular upsetting moments private of course but what I'm trying to get at is my daughter when a wee one, a toddler's age remembers seeing his violence, his anger. I did not program her, nor would I ever. Let me get to the point, she's most likely decided via the charming internet to find him in the USA, we're in Canada and what kills me and hurts to the core is I did everything and he did nothing.

He wasn't in the picture for 22 yrs. I sit here now with my 22 yr. old who HATES me too but communicates with my sister who I do not have a relationship with 'never have', my Mom and Dad and my relatives..but not me anymore since last year.

You are a priceless jewel carrieanna never ever forget that. My Mom and Dad always said the hardest job in the world guaranteed is being a parent however the most difficult job on top of that is being a single parent. We nuture, we provide, we NEVER sleep, we always cook and clean and we never have money to purchase a cheap lipstick for ourselves but somehow we always managed to come up with the hundreds and/or thousands required for our child. Parenthood at times seems like a non ending cruel joke no different than the battle of the sexes and how odd woman are, think and feel as compared to men.

This is precisely how they want you to feel as you realize within this forum there is a huge human condition lacking as of late in society and that is EMPATHY depleted from our children's souls.

We can all continue on supporting one another which is a good thing but the reality of it all is to realize until your child or children have their own...and it's the god's honest truth...until they pop a baby out of their own body or if you have a son his wife or mate does so...they will never ever 'get it'....everything to them will always remain the Mom's fault 'especially over the Dad's'.

Always remember carrieanna that in order to feel good again you have to learn to love, like and respect yourself because if you don't maintain and/or hold those qualities within yourself you can't give them to anyone else...therefore your family who is treating you like a non entity obviously don't hold those feelings within themselves which is why it can't be given.

Integrity is the first thing hurtful people play upon destroying in someone and yes this includes so called 'loved' ones....the only person in this big blue marble who can build up your integrity is you, always remember it is now your time to put you FIRST...something I can guarantee you and everyone else in here including myself have never done.

Please remember, I can't see you and don't know you but I truly care when I hear a fellow Mom saying that she wants to give up...we've all said that and you are far too priceless to feel that way. Remember you are a Queen and deserve to be treated as such...don't let those imbedded with ignorance and hate take you down that horrible path, rise above them all and prove them all wrong and one day should they 'come back' (by the way I'm sick of hearing that from everyone) it'll be your choice as to whether or not you will make room for them in your world. Hope this is far to precious to ever let it go.

"Today is the first day of the rest of your life"

Start anew, carpe diem......sieze the day!

    Bookmark   September 10, 2010 at 4:22PM
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midnight madness,

I don't have any suggestions other than maybe asking if you have ever thought about seeking the help of a qualified professional counselor? I believe it can be very helpful, but you need to find someone who is qualified. I often wonder why it is that people balk or get angry and resentful at the suggestion, since it seems like it would be a proactive and healthy decision to make. What I find instead is that they more often will make excuses or sound resentful at spending the time or the money. I don't understand this behavior other than it reflects an unwillingings or fear on their part.

The reason I suggest counseling is that feeling angry, confused, hurt, etc., will and does create a lot of internal conflict and unhappiness and that can spread to others, whether it is intented or not. I see the negative consequences of people refusing to seek help, yet constantly trying to seek it from inappropriate people and sources. I see what stubborness does to their relationships. I believe you have far more to lose by not considering counseling. Although it is good to have a safe place to vent, sometimes it is inappropriate to who and how you decide to vent. The hurt and anger that you describe has a way of negatively impacting other relationships, both professional and personal and not in a healthy way. People often seek their friends and relatives and even co-workers to provide them with emotional support, but I feel it often an unwise decision to burden friends with too much of your personal life and issues. I mean no disrespect when I say this to you either--it is meant as a well-intentioned observation. Our friends and family cannot and maybe should not be our therapists, and we definitely should not burden our co-workers. I'm not suggesting that you do this either, but I do recognize how often people that I've been acquainted with, and many who are complete strangers have overwhelmed me with their issues, anger and troubles. And so often those emotional demands have unintended negative repercussions to others. I don't believe that we ought to burden our relationships with those demands as it is non-productive.

I say this as I've often felt, despite being a "nice person" overwhelmed constantly by others seeking my understanding, support and empathy. And most people tell me that I'm empathetic, non-judgemental and supportive. All too often, needy people, don't ever stop to consider the burden they are placing on others around them. I have placed many boundaries on people to stop, but the self-absorbed and needy tend to ignore boundaries.

As to your daughter and mentioned that your ex has mental health issues. I'm uncertain what that means to you as you don't define specifically what you think he has, but I wonder if you have sought help, such as seeking help and support through NAMI (National Organization for the Mentally Ill). I would urge you to do so, especially if you may feel that your daughter has inherited a genetic predisposition towards mental illness.

Your daughter's desire to get to know her biological father is natural, despite his being an absent presence in her life. It would be natural for her to desire her relatives even if they were not a part of her early, young life.

You state, "...concerning the estrangment between my daughter and I the chances are he'll probably end up becoming her best friend (insert sarcasm here) because my life has non ending drama...I could flag a ship to Timbuktu and I'd still end up with drama."

I don't know what the drama in your life is/was, however part of your daughter's anger towards you could be due to her being exposed to the non-ending drama of your life. Drama in one's life creates chaos and inconsistency which isn't healthy for children and developing adults. I am not judging you and I do not know what you mean by drama. My observation is meant to offer you another viewpoint as to why your daughter may harbor anger issues towards you for the chaotic life and existence that your choices created for her. That may or may not make sense to you, but always remember that you were the adult and she was the child.

I agree with some of your observations in your last post. I also sincerely hope that you will consider counseling, if it is available to you, because going it alone given your circumstances is a very difficult thing to do. We all need emotional support, yet it is wise to seek it from appropriate sources and I believe many people don't consider this.

I wish the best of luck with these issues...

    Bookmark   September 12, 2010 at 6:47PM
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Dear Flowergardenmuse,

Wow! Not really what I expected in supportive online help, but thanks for your response. I do not need to seek any counselling and/or help and find it interesting how the very first time I log on to this website I'm being told to seek help, or rather your suggesting it? Yet other Moms (many of us) in the same boat discussing here in this forum specifically how our adult children have suddenly turned their lives into 'it's all about their existance now' and forget Mom and Dad or how much we're intentionally hurt by them~our kids, I'm one who should get professional help for this? I can't control my adult daughter who's begun to treat me like pure garbage for no other reason than 'the age' she's at....and now I'm pretty much insulted by your response.

I do not need professional help to discuss this issue and/or matter...I needed other Moms who are in the same boat.

Have a lovely day,

I'm more depressed about this now than ever with your feedback, anyone else who sees this I'm open for discussion as flowergardenmuse truly didn't hear and/or read my posts clearly.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2010 at 12:14PM
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Dear sarahsmom,

Thank you for the link; I'm a nice person and didn't mean for my comment back to flowergardenmuse to seem crass but the advice provided by this person was not worthy of my commenting any further, be judged and directed towards a therapist is really an unjust and unfair response when there's thousands of us Moms going through these changes with our grown children. I do not expect people to agree with me but to give someone the benefit of the doubt without throwing or tossing in the shrink card would have been more suitable.

I appreciate your response have a wonderful day.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2010 at 6:47AM
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Midnightmadness, I really don't believe flowergarden's suggestion was meant in a judgemental way at all. It read to me more as a suggestion in the sense of, if you want to talk, you might also consider talking to someone who has professional training in talking about relationship issues, not as a way to change YOU to accommodate your daughter, but as a way of clarifying your own feelings and working out what would be for you the best way of coping with the feelings engendered by your daughter's estrangement. A good therapist enables his/her clients to find their own solutions. Other Moms in the same boat may offer support, but are unlikely to offer solutions- if they had solutions they wouldn't be in the boat. Nothing to say you can't take a belt AND braces approach.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 9:17AM
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Thanks. No it wasn't meant in a judgemental way. Responses like that is generally why I tend to stay clear of offering any comments. I think she's moved on anyway. I question if they are seeking solutions anyway, since the focus seems more on blame. Enabling behaviors often masquerade as emotional support anyway--it's hard to look at yourself. I think it feels better to have people soothe our feelings and agree with us, rather than to challenge our perceptions of situations and even the way we may contribute.

Most people I know who eventually decide to seek counseling or therapy generally report that it was helpful.

It reminds me of a saying, "Better the demon you know, than the demon you don't."

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 1:17PM
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To CarrieAnna:

I hear you loud and clear. I raised my 2 kids by myself with no financial, physical or emotional support from their father. Not only that, I chose to be single and not to date so that my kids would not have to feel what so many stepchildren have felt. He moved away to North Carolina when they were very small. My kids are now 18 and 15. The 18 yr. old has decided to live with his father and his live-in girlfriend and her 3 small kids. My son has posted on his Facebook about what a horrible mother I was and that I spoiled him and he was fed with a "silver spoon." I'm very hurt and confused, as I thought I was a great mom. I took them camping and fishing. I took them to Disneyland several times. I took them to Yellowstone. We ate out, we went to plays, we went to movies. I tried so hard to give them not only things, but love and understanding. I loved my kids so very, very much and still do. I was very involved with my children. I sacrificed my life for my kids. I too cry myself to sleep most nights. I'm so lost and depressed and lonely. I feel betrayed.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2010 at 3:41AM
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I am 68yrs. old,have two daughters 42and 48.Have experienced everything that you have written.Have in the last 20 yrs. 3 contacts with one and 1 with # 2 child.
Let use view the society value about men and wemon.
(1)wemon still get paid 78 cents to a man dollar.Wemon spent longer jail terms for the same offense for the same crime.(4)We are still viewed as second class citizens.
Watch T.v and other media, In schools studies ,teachers still over look the bad behavior of boys. Boys will be boys you know. when a boy raises his hand ,he will be chosen to amswer before a girl. Men are still right about everything apparently, until a women quiletly repairs that damage .We give them an excuse ,don't want to hurt ego's. When they don't want to do something , they don't know how or put it off until it becomes inconvient to them.
A man will stand up for another man actions, even if he doesn't know him. Most women,will rarley stand up for another woman. I'm not saying this is 100% of the time all the time.We are so conditioned with this ,since the begining of time . Why I say we are second class citizens. Men take credit for weman's accomplishments . Thats when they say ,'look what 'we' did ! If it works out well, if not ,it's look what you have done. Does this sound familiar ?If not , uou might want to rethink .
The point I'm trying to make , wemon's work is never done,and it has no value until we stop doing it.
How can we expect our children to treat us with respect and dignity when the rules are not in our favor. Would a man take a job that lasts 21 yrs. and longer,no retirement pay, 24/7 hours, no pay unless demanded or given when convient .
The job has obsolesence built in ,children grow up, divorce rate 50%.
It is not what you have done so wrong,or even right for that matter.It is unless you are doing something that has value to the children 'NOW' you are indifferent in their world.You take 'Love' out of everything and since no value is given at the time, they were entitled to to all that you did for them. Being a good 'Mom'. Reality is a Bit-h. The pain will continue, less as time goes on.
It's not all their fault and definitely not yours.You did the best you could do at the time with what you had vailable to you. You would not be on this site if you did not have a heart and been a good parent.You havev't read ,I beat and didn't feed my child , I don't know why their acting this way.When you married and had children you reinvented yourself from a single person to a wife and mother.Now the process is to once again reinvent yourself using all the knowelege you have gained and yes ,the pain . This time ,recognize your value and be very aware . Plan what you want to do without having to consider what everyone else wants you to do first. The freedom is OUTSTANDING. The past really is gone,don't give them your future. They have shown and told you the past is done for them. The light at the end of the tunnel is not always a train, unless you stay on the track

    Bookmark   November 14, 2010 at 10:23AM
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"I am 68yrs. old,have two daughters 42and 48.Have experienced everything that you have written.Have in the last 20 yrs. 3 contacts with one and 1 with # 2 child."

Sorry to hear of your estrangment with your daughters.

I believe the value our society places on men and women is a different issue and although important in its own right has little to do with the real reasons for estrangement.

"A man will stand up for another man actions, even if he doesn't know him. Most women,will rarley stand up for another woman."

While this observation has merits and actually has been written about, I don't see this as relating to the reasons for family estrangements.

"How can we expect our children to treat us with respect and dignity when the rules are not in our favor."

Children learn through role models and I believe if you demonstrate respect to them and towards others that they in turn will learn how people who respect others behave within relationships. They will learn not only what respect means, but will also learn to value it in their own relationships with others. And while it is true that children grow up, not all adult children will become estranged from their parent or parents. What is true is that the parent-child relationship changes and one must learn to adapt. What is also true is if the communication is poor to begin with or if the relationship feels one-sided, then that will factor into the estrangement.

"It is not what you have done so wrong,or even right for that matter.It is unless you are doing something that has value to the children 'NOW' you are indifferent in their world."

This is not true. Meaningful relationships are built and cultivated over time. People tend to value people and relationships when they feel that they are valued, heard and loved. People who behave with indifference towards others probably felt that others treated them with indifference as well. People do not grow up in a vacuum. They learn about relationships from their role models, in other words their parents. That is common sense, not blame.

"You take 'Love' out of everything and since no value is given at the time, they were entitled to to all that you did for them."

Part of being a parent is being responsible for the child that you created. Yes, parenting can be hard work and it's too bad that prior to becoming a parent people don't hear how difficult parenting can be. It also has rewards.

"It's not all their fault and definitely not yours.You did the best you could do at the time with what you had vailable to you."

No one is assigning blame. Self-introspection however is a good thing. It helps people to heal and to grow. If you made mistakes own them. It's never to late to try to mend broken relationships.

"You would not be on this site if you did not have a heart and been a good parent.You havev't read ,I beat and didn't feed my child , I don't know why their acting this way."

Most people do not confess to child abuse. It's rare to find people who take responsibility for child abuse, even when it is evident.

"Now the process is to once again reinvent yourself using all the knowelege you have gained and yes ,the pain . This time ,recognize your value and be very aware . Plan what you want to do without having to consider what everyone else wants you to do first. The freedom is OUTSTANDING."

Reinvent yourself by moving forward to a new chapter and role in your life. You can still be a parent, but you can learn to adapt and change to a newer role and one that may be more beneficial to your adult children. Think of it as renegotiating your role to the present instead of the past. If you can integrate the two you may be a much happier person--much better for you and for your relationships.

"They have shown and told you the past is done for them."

Perhaps they just need their parents to adapt to their new roles--it doesn't have to make you feel less of a person or a parent. All children grow up and parent's need to let them.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2010 at 9:56PM
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I've been searching for some kind of support group for Mothers mourning a relationship with a child. Maybe this is the closest I will come to that. I don't know.

I've read many of the posts on this site & can relate to many of them. I cry every single day, if only for a few moments. I feel I've said everything possible for me to say. Frankly, I really don't know why he told me "I'm dead to you". In Jan or Feb, it will have been 1 year.

I've searched my heart, my head & soul for the cause(s). I've asked myself many questions, hoping for an answer & solution.

His Father & I divorced when this particular son was approximately 12. I know for fact this his Father has bad-mouthed me ever since, but gosh, that son is now 36. His Father has been remarried for years & had a child with that wife. Even my ex's Mother asked when he's going to forgive I've had nothing to forgive him for. She has no idea what I went through because I never thought it appropriate to tell her "those" things.

Just a side note to that: both of my ex-daughters-in-law tell me everything. I cry for that, as well.

So, can anyone help me stop crying? I wonder if I will be mourning forever. How can it be that it's going on 1 yr. w/o my older son.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2010 at 7:28PM
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Fiona writes about mourning too. It is a common, natural feeling whether it is an adult child who initiated the estrangement with a parent or vice versa.

Here is another site written by a daughter who is estranged from her mother which may be helpful too.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2010 at 5:49PM
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Last but not least here is another site which may or may not be helpful about estrangements.

This site offers related links to estragements--family, books, articles, etc.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2010 at 5:54PM
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flowergardenmuse, thank you so much for taking the time to write about this. As I am brand new to this site, I just realized that there is no notification process to my email when a new post is entered. So, I just logged on & read your posts. I will read your suggestions very, very soon. I think I will wait until the weekend, at least, so my emotions aren't charged for when my younger son & grandson are here for Thanksgiving.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, with your loved ones around you.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2010 at 12:24PM
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You're welcome. It's nice to hear and have someone express appreciation, even if it is just thanks. It's something I seldom hear.

One thing--estrangements tend to be unique to families and the given circumstances and situations surrounding the estrangements. I think it important though to get clear on your own emotions and feelings first.

I don't know whether you've read many of these posts and responses above, but I'm tending towards not responding, or less and less. The reason why is some of the angry responses. On another thread someone also responded with a more open-minded and gracious response as well. One of the angry responses above was because I inquired whether a mother above had considered seeking professional counseling.

For what it is worth counseling is a personal choice/decision and most people I know who eventually decide to go that route generally report that it was helpful, others resent the time, effort, money, etc. I suppose it depends on what you are seeking and what your ultimate goal is and what you are willing to "emotionally" give/not give, etc. and that is something only you can decide.

For me counseling was far more helpful given my set of circumstances and that is sometimes why I ask people if they have considered it. It's not meant in a judgemental way as one of the mother's above interpreted it as. It is more of an observation/suggestion in the sense of, if you want to talk, you might also consider talking to someone who has professional training in talking about relationship issues, not as a way to change YOU to accommodate your son/daughter, or whoever, but as a way of clarifying your own feelings and working out what would be for you the best way of coping with the feelings engendered by the estrangement. A good therapist enables his/her clients to find their own solutions. Other mothers in the same boat may offer support, but are unlikely to offer solutions for the simple reason that if they had solutions they wouldn't be in the same boat.

Of course that is your choice and decision.

Anyway, I appreciated your thanking me as that is as I said previously seldom given or heard. I hope those resources will help you. I think the first link I provided, Fiona McColl sounds like the best bet as she is a clinical therapist and researcher. I've read some of what she has posted and found it helpful.

I wish the best.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2010 at 1:49PM
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Well, I am relieved to read that I am no longer alone - there are quite a few people in the same boat as I am. Estrangement - I have often felt like I was the strange one - but that isn't the case. I grieve my loss w/ my daughter and find it especially hard at this time of year. I am alone, divorced for 8+years, orphaned as my parents are deceased, with no family to speak of this side of the Atlantic. I have tried to structure my life around my interests, I value my solitude, love my dogs and try to nurture friendships. That last one can be difficult so I was hoping to develop online friendships - this is a new avenue for me as I am rather phobic of the computer. I will endeavour to read more of the postings - lunch is over and I have to get back to work. I am hoping that ppl will continue to inspire each w/ hope and offer suggestions that have worked for them, without offering platitudes. Sometimes I just need a safe place to vent my feelings and be angry without judgement.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2010 at 1:21PM
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I am 74 and have seen a lot of problem families. The family estrangements I have seen are totally the fault of one person, as a result the rest of the family do not want a relationship with that person.

I have a sister I do not want a relationship with. Even though I care about her, I do not want to be around her. Her very presence is a criticism. She thinks she will be the only one of us in heaven and we are going to die because we won't take her nutritional advice. LOL

I met a woman who's boys do not want to be around her and she doesn't know why. After going to lunch with her a couple of times, I knew why. She hates all Muslims, Buddhism and no telling how many other religions. They are all wrong except hers. She nags her boys for not being more into her beliefs. It's her main topic for conversations. She called me 3 or 4 times one day involving me in her problems and I flat told her she needed help, Islam, Buddhism and other religions were none of her business and she was losing her sons over it. Needless to say she stopped calling me.

Another woman I know boasts about her wonderful relationship with her girls, loving unconditionally. She has one daughter that is a responsible adult who doesn't fit into the situation except to say she is a little tired of her family right now. Two others I wouldn't even speak to if it weren't for the Mom's feelings. Their problem includes a son in law raping a daughter, a daughter who abuse her son and raised all of her children in absolute filth and now expects the family to support her while she sits on her b***. The raped daughter married and never looked back and the family can't figure out why.

As far as my situation with my boys goes, I could have a relationship with them except for a couple of "minor" problems. One son would want a relationship with me if I would just "share the wealth".....until I was broke. Then the relationship would be over. Or when I get sick and can't take care of myself, him and his wife would step in, get custody and keep me in their home...until the money ran out. I feared that until I appointed a lawyer as my POA and explained the situation to him. The other son fathered 3 very sweet innocent babies who he would not take care of when the mother wouldn't. One day she threw a baby across the room because it wouldn't stop crying. Luckily my son caught it. They ended up in foster care until the other grandmother got custody. I never see my sons and I wish we were a loving family but we are not. I have accepted that have gotten on with my life. When I think of them it is of the sweet little boys they were many years ago.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2010 at 8:41PM
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You are not alone. The holidays are an especially difficult time of year for most people dealing with estrangements to get through.

I've posted a link below to an excellent site which deals with estrangements. I hope it helps.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2011 at 1:30PM
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I have a friend who has two children from one marriage and a third child from a dysfunctional relationship that ended when the child was 2. She gets along great with the first two but isn't very close with the third child.

I have known "Rebecca" all of her life. Her mother has micromanaged her to the point of tears. When she was still living at home her mother kept her extremely busy with school, soccer, music, dance lessons, etc. She never had any free time except when she went to visit her dad.

Rebecca used to like cucumbers but her tastes changed as she got older. One time we went to lunch and Rebecca wanted to order a sandwich without cucumber. Her mother gave her to riot act for not wanting cucumber when she had 'always liked it before'. I told her mother that people's tastes change and that she was going to inflict an eating disorder on the kid if she didn't back off a little and let her start choosing a few things she liked before she turned 18. Or at least when we were dining out. The kid was grateful I spoke up.

She is such a smart kid that she scored in the 94th percentile in the SATS and is attending college on a scholarship. Even when she comes home to visit, her mother always has something for her to do even if she is only staying a day or so. Clean the cat boxes, entire kitchen and other housekeeping chores while mom goes out clubbing, even though mom already employs a housekeeping service. You'd think mom would want to spend time with her daughter when she visits instead of putting her to work.

I don't get why the mother does this with the one daughter but not the other. It amazes me that this daughter bothers to come home to visit at all.

Now the mother is complaining that she never hears from her even though they speak at least once a week.

I like Rebecca's mother but can see how kids can become estranged.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2011 at 4:26PM
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Am I the jerk here? Please, an honest assessment from "outsiders." This concerns sibling estrangement, but here goes:

My husband and I live in a large city. We have, for years, been very close with my sister and her husband, who live a 1-hour flight (but 7-hour car ride) away in a suburb where I grew up (so my parents and some friends still live there). Over the past 10 years, we have visited them in their town 20 times, whereas they have visited us in the city exactly twice (and complained mightily both times). This has long been a sore spot, which reached a head on my 40th birthday. My husband tried to arrange a surprise for me, a visit from my sister and her husband. They are less financially well-off than we are, so he was going to help them out with the cost of the flights, meals, etc. (as we have always done, even when visiting them). However, my sister was in the process of opening a business at the time (with a partner) and refused to come up even for ONE night. I was, of course, extremely upset -- all these years we have made the effort to visit them, and yet they have made the effort only twice (and complained like crazy both times), and couldn't even be bothered when it was a big occasion like a 40th b-day. It wasn't really about a birthday, of course -- it's just that this final snub was the straw that broke the camel's back. Also, I understand she was busy with her business opening, but it's not like my birthday snuck up on her.

Long story short, when I told my sister how my feelings were hurt by this (not by the birthday snub, but by the years-long pattern of refusing to visit us -- while thinking nothing of visiting their other friends in other distant towns, and expecting us to always come to them), she responded with everything from how often my OTHER friends come to visit us in the city to how I "ruin" Christmas every year when I come into town, because we stay at a hotel to avoid putting anyone out (apparently this is viewed as thinking that we're "too good" to stay at anyone's house) and because we spend a few hours on Xmas morning with my best friend -- something I've done since high school. She said that their other friends greet them with pizza and have driveways, whereas we live in the city (so no driveway) and always try to get them to go out & spend money (we live in a large, exciting city -- of course you'd want to go out!), so that's why they visit their other friends but not us. The entire back-and-forth never addressed the initial hurt feelings but instead involved my sister using a "deflection" tactic -- "Oh yeah, well what about YOU?!" She also mentioned how the few times we have travelled together have been miserable for them and a real "sacrifice," since they didn't really have the money, but only went on the trip to shut us up.

We have not spoken in months now. I have spoken to her husband, who has admitted that they have not visited as often as they should and that they are in the wrong and that he is willing to work on making the relationship more reciprocal. But my sister has never acknowledged that the number of visits, and the amount of effort we each put into the relationship, has been so lopsided. She has now turned this entire thing around on me, saying that HER feelings are hurt because I was so selfish as to think she could take a night off from her business planning to visit me. I have been made out to be the bad guy, accused of everything from ruining Christmas to "hating" our parents to "hating" her dogs (one of them attacked me and I asked that it be kept away from me). I don't know, maybe I AM the bad guy. What say you all?

    Bookmark   February 16, 2011 at 7:38PM
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A reply to beenthere2010(my page)

All parents make mistakes, because we humans are fallible. And we are flawed, all except narcissists. The Germans call narcissism a social virus (hence the epidemic), the French call it mal du si�cle.
Simone de Beauvoir said in her famous book the Second Sex that, in puberty the female has two choices: side with the male and support his interests, or rebel against patriarchy and risk opprobrium. I agree with your worldview and share it: my daughters entered puberty during a vicious backlash against feminism in the '80's. They switched sides and began emulating macho behaviour.

Their dad died tragically when they were 7 & 5. Ours was an egalitarian, reciprocal-loving relationship without gender roles. He was the most empathetic man, no, person I had ever met. We shared all but one core value. Even though I was grief-stricken, I did my utmost for our kids, but at night I would cry my eyes out.

I suppose I overcompensated by becoming even more lenient than before his death. In puberty, the older one converted me to religion - by creating hell at home: slamming doors, shouting, treating me as dirt. At school she behaved very well, but at home ..... More than 25 years after the tragedy, they accused me of grieving too long. They would hear me crying and that was the reason why they couldn't grieve! I was speechless. They could have come downstairs to ask me to stop. I thought they were asleep! (2 floors up!)

Up to puberty, they were great kids: helpful, cooperative, kind, loving, did well at school. They were sociable and our house was like a railway station. That was one of my biggest mistakes.
Psychologists, intent on bashing parents claim that children imitate parents whenever they engage in negative behaviours. One exception: Dr Joshua Coleman. Youtube him.
Children Do Not imitate parents, for better or worse: they imitate their peers! There is a brilliant study, called The Nurture Assumption, written by Judith Rich Harris. Publicly, my daughters are charming, communicative, sociable and very popular: they have plenty of friends, good life-style, but they behave like monsters in the shade, when there are no other witnesses around. I am not two-faced, but direct, even blunt in my social interractions. They had good education, with degrees, but behave like neanderthal males towards me. They hate feminism with a passion, because none of their friends has any sympathy for it. You respect your children's privacy, then discover they were taking drugs in their rooms. Yeuck! I don't take mind-altering drugs, but psychologists would no doubt still blame me for it, as well as anything else. I know someone who has 5 children but none of them had ever taken any drugs. He said he considers himself lucky. He is right. If his children had the same friends as mine, they might have given in to their peer pressure.

My husband and I had had authoritarian upbringing: we were (too?) liberal with ours. I blame myself even though I am aware of the enormous influence of the peer pressure. In the local over 60's club, I feel alienated because I am the only feminist with left-wing leanings. In other words still young enough to feel the peer pressure, but I am resisting. We came to this quite salubrious area because of "good" schools. Yes, they produce academically successful children, but not nice people. All my life I have been "fighting" patriarchy but my daughters turned out the most oppressive people I had ever met. I can't fight my child.
I can only speculate how they would behave if their dad were still alive. I suspect they would consider him "weak" too. Interestingly, bullies do not attack us because of our weaknesses, despite their claims; they attack us for our strengths. If they were boys, I would have been strict or been ideologically prepared, hence not very disappointed, but as a feminist mother, I feel betrayed, because they are the same gender. I told them that I have no problem with their rejection of feminism, only with their cold, cruel and callous attitudes towards me as their mother.
There is another problem: once we communicate to our grown children that we feel disappointed in them, they not only stop trying but seem to go in the direction of making the situation worse. I wish I could have hidden my displeasure.

    Bookmark   August 6, 2012 at 7:16PM
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I don't know where to begin. My son and I were always so close and we truly enjoyed each other's company. He always seemed to make poor choices when it came to the women he chose to be in his life. He asked to move in with us after estricating himself from a toxic relationship that left him deeply in debt and about to be evicted from the apartment they shared. He was also accepted into the Police academy which lasted about 8 months. He worked very hard and was at the top of his academy class and we were very proud of him. As his Father he seemed to really value the time we spent together and I enjoyed our many conversations about life. I could also tell that he was getting lonely. He started going to a church that was not our faith but I always told him that once we gave him the basics regarding religion he was free to do with that whatever he chose. He seemed to embrace it and became almost obsessed.

I felt that the best thing to do was to let him be himself and thought things would moderate as he move deeper into hic career as a Police Officer. He met a young woman that seemed nice, almost too nice through a christian dating site and they began a relationship. Almost immediately after meeting her, things began to occur that at the time didn't seem odd to me but they do now. For example they traveled halfway across the country to see her Father on Father's Day. When this happened the Friday they left she came to be and said how sorry she was about "taking" him away during Father's Day that she just didn't realize the trip would coincide with the day. I accepted that.

Several months later they announced that they were getting married. I thought it would be at least a year down the road but to my surprise it was six weeks down the road during Christmas week. I asked why so soon and he said they wanted to be together and they would not sleep together until they were married so they were doing this so quickly so they could be together. I was floored but let them be. He found an apartment and moved out. During this time he stopped calling and would text sparingly. I kept asking what happened and all I got was "we're busy".

We attended the wedding which was strange to say the least. They wanted no involvement from us whatsoever. Even though we stayed in the same hotel we never saw them. He claims they were just busy but they spent all of the time seeing her friends and family. I was terribly hurt. I wanted to see and talk with him before he got married and I never had that opportunity.

I wrote him a long e-mail that took him three weeks to answer asking what happened? When he replied there was no answer as to that question.

Fast forwarding about 4 months later I sent him an e-mail message regarding an important letter that had arrived at our house for him. He hadn't come by the the house since the day he moved several months earlier. In that e-mail I said I could scan the letter and e-mail it to him if he liked. He responded with a terse, "don't open my mail" and "there are laws against opening mail that isn't yours".

After an exchange between the two of us in which I asked him again to tell me what happened to cause him to stay away he replied " this will be the last you hear from me for a very long time". I was floored. My final response to that was "don't you think you owe me an explanation as to why things are as they are"? "How can I fix this if I don't know what the problem is?" "If the time comes that you change your mind I will be here".

This happened three months ago. I am so lost and have lost so many nights of sleep. I just can't seem to get beyond this. We were so close for the first 28 years of his life. I can't imagine that he doesn't miss me, we had so many good times together. I have called, texted and e-mailed him but he doesn't reply to anything. I realize that in order to maintain my sanity I have to walk away but I just don't know how to. I really miss him.

Thank you all for listening.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2012 at 8:38AM
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Have you been complaining about your estranged child or his/her wife/husband to friends and family? Children sense things. They know a lot more than you think. They talk to other family members and hear the rude comments you have been making. You think you are being all nice and loving, that you have done nothing wrong, but children are very perceptive. They know when they are being judged. If is very hard to function normally when all your relatives believe the lies your parents have been telling about your and your spouse.

Parents need to be more child oriented. Everyone thinks they are...but do you really put your child first?

Do you think about their feelings, what they are going through, how it is to start your life with your judgemental family talking sh*t about your spouse?

You had your time, your job now is to give your child everything they need to be successful in life. Children need support and unconditional UNCONDITIONAL non judgemental support to function properly.

If you have been giving this to your child, their needs would be met, they would not be estranged from the family.

Something clearly has gone wrong, and blaming the child when you are supposed to be the WISE ADULT is immature and selfish and probably exactly what got you in this situation in the first place.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2012 at 1:07AM
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Needhelp77, you are so full of it (and yourself) that you squeak.

No, parents do not need to be more child oriented. Parents are far too child oriented nowadays as it is. This results in their raising a generation of children who grow up believing that they and their needs will always come first, and they go out into the world as entitled adults who are in for a world of hurt when they find out that the rest of the world doesn't give a fig about them.

Children do not need unconditional non judgemental support. If they are never told where they are making mistakes they will never get the chance to improve. Unconditional non judgemental support makes children mediocre and encourages them to do the minimum to get by instead of aiming for excellence.

Let me guess, your parents don't like your partner.

1 Like    Bookmark   September 2, 2012 at 5:09AM
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You needhelp77 really do need help. Writing "Children need support and unconditional UNCONDITIONAL non judgemental support to function properly" is probably what brought you to this site. Children can be self absorbed, selfish and feel entitled to the things that loving parents have sacrificed to give them in life so that they can grow, learn and succeed in life. The NONSENSE you've written below is mind boggling.

1 Like    Bookmark   September 2, 2012 at 8:32AM
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Thank you for your responses rcrjr and colleen...

The way you reacted so rigidly without even considering what I said, the way you immediately acted condescendingly toward me as if my words meant nothing....THAT is exactly what I am talking about. You are right! Always!! Am I right?

If your are having trouble in your family, I think your children might have difficulty talking to you when you are so stuck thinking you are the center of the universe.

It is amazing to me that what you all say about your children, seems to be the exact way that you are behaving.

The way you reacted to me makes me think that you did not spend much time actually listening to your child.

It is always so easy to blame others, so hard to look at yourselves. If you keep pointing the finger, you won't notice the three pointing back at you.

From an article passed on here:

"Other parents are so defensive and bitter and morally outraged that you feel protective of the child who had to grow up in the home where those feelings were played out. Many parents want their estranged child to see the situation from their perspective, but haven�t done the hard work of seeing it from the child�s. Some parents who did real damage to their children believe that if they just keep denying it, that their child may one day forget that it ever happened, much in the way that they have suppressed it themselves."

    Bookmark   September 2, 2012 at 4:10PM
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Get a life and grow up. Perhaps you will step out of your full self and see life as it truly is.

1 Like    Bookmark   September 2, 2012 at 6:18PM
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Is that a well thought out response? Is that the best you can do?

Again I asked you to attempt to see a different point of view and you just insult me and pretend it is me that cannot see outside myself.

I am honestly trying to help you here. I am not your kid, but I see the exact same patterns in the parents here. Everyone says they just can't understand what happened, then when someone makes a suggestion, the parent gets angry and insulted that anyone would even suggest they did anything wrong. 'How Dare You'

So many parents blaming the spouse, blaming selfishness...when apparently the apple didn't fall from the tree because they are so selfish they can only see their child in relation to themselves. They have no ability to see their child as a separate entity with needs that might be different than the parents.

One parent even said they would rather their child were dead, because they would have closure!

How selfish could a parent possibly me? It's all about ME ME ME!!!

Now do you see?

No matter what you tell yourself, if you really want to heal your relationship you need to get honest. Most parents here don't want to heal anything however. They just want to complain and have people feel sorry for them.

I wish my parents wanted to fix this. That is all I am waiting for. I cannot continue to be treated the way I was. I only seek an acknowledgement of wrong doings, perhaps an apology but at the very least I want them to stop what they are doing to my family.

But I have the feeling they are stuck just like you. Nothing will ever be fixed because it's all my fault.

I told my parents what was wrong, they denied they were treating me badly. What am I supposed to do, just keep putting up with it?

When my grandmother died she left me money, they kept it. They gave it to my brothers but kept mine. I love and respect my parents, never said anything bad, just accepted it and thought they would eventually change as that was incredibly rude. That was just the beginning of my disillusionment with my parents. WHO in their right minds would do that to a child and expect them to not have feelings? But I tried to bury my feelings and keep going but it didn't end there. They lied to everyone in the family. I heard all kinds of absurd stories about how controlling my husband is. Relatives told me they thought he was some old crazy guy from the stories, were quite surprised after having met him. After complaining that I wasn't married, I got married had 18 years later...they are still waiting for the day we divorce. They would rather they were right than my family stay intact and happy. They never once thought about how their rude treatment might affect my children! It is so incredibly selfish it is infuriating. I want to have a relationship but they have made it impossible. I cannot allow their mean behavior make my Children feel lesser than. They need a bad guy in their lives, but my Children are more important to me than meeting their needs. My job now is to take care of my children, not do everything I can to please my parents. They still believe my job is to do what they want, or they will hold a grudge and my inheritance given to me by my grandmother and now my uncle as well. I imagine they are now like the parents on this board, thinking the children are damaged as well so will give my inheritance given to me by my grandma to some charity and somehow justify it in their mind.

Through all of this, I have never said one bad word to my children about my parents. I say nice things only. I would never want to taint my parents reputation in their eyes, I would never want to make them look bad. I want them to love their grandparents and I have this hope that someday we will fix this, so the kids really don't need to know.

And the saddest part is in all these years, they just haven't even attempted to understand. It would be really easy too. Denial is very powerful. I always thought that they loved me so much, they would do anything for me. I thought they loved their grandchildren so much, they would do anything for them. I was wrong. Their preconceptions and judgements are more important than me. It is devastating, truly.

I think about it every day, ask God to help me understand what I should do to fix this...but I just cannot fix it alone. It also occurs to me as I struggle with this every day, they don't think about it all. They told themselves it wasn't their fault and moved on. I am a sensitive person who has been damaged irreparably.

PLEASE I'm Begging you- Do not just react and insult me.

I am genuinely asking for advice here....

    Bookmark   September 2, 2012 at 7:52PM
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"I am genuinely asking for advice here...."
No you're not, you're lecturing everyone. And making assumptions. Where have I said I'm estranged from my child or having problems? In fact, my daughter and I have a very good relationship- I just got home from spending a lovely week visiting her. So I do have a few clues about raising a successful and happy child.

On these boards, your biggest issue is taking your problems and extrapolating them to a "one size fits all" belief. To quote you, you have made your posts all about ME ME ME!! Because your parents are controlling and belittling, you harangue all the other parents of estranged children here and tell them the fault is all theirs. As a sensitive person who feels insulted by the other posters here, can you not see how insulting you have been to them? Fault is not always one way. Sometimes the children _are_ wrong. Sometimes fault is on both sides.

Yes, your parents are wrong to keep your inheritance. It was not just incredibly rude, it was incredibly illegal. You can either take them to court if you feel it's worth it, or forget about it and move on. Clearly after 18 years it is unlikely they will change, especially if, as you say, they don't feel they are wrong, so all you can do is put up with it or move them out of your life. If they bad mouth you, tough. The people who really care about you will see the truth and if they don't, they don't really care about you. In any case if you're not around them you won't be hearing it anyway.

You are on one side of a belief chasm, and your parents on the other. From what you say I don't think this is fixable, at least not without willingness on both parts, which you say there isn't. Your only choices are to put up with it or to cut it out altogether.

1 Like    Bookmark   September 2, 2012 at 9:59PM
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colleen- Thank you Thank you Thank you!!! for answering.

I must say you are right with the one size fits all attacks. I am sorry. I just read so many threads where parents were complaining, and the few people who gave the child perspective were attacked...I just reacted.

I am really sorry if I have insulted anyone with my preconceptions.

I really do want help, and am hoping that if we can discuss this openly, maybe we can all help each other see something new.

"If they bad mouth you, tough. The people who really care about you will see the truth and if they don't, they don't really care about you"

This is what is so painful. I am shy. My Mom is the center of the family. As long as I can remember my mom told jokes about me, making fun of me, for conversation. When I had a boyfriend in high school, all the jokes were making fun of him. This is how I know it is not about my current husband. Some people just need a bad guy.

I was just a child, how was I supposed to overcome the constant negative publicity about me?

I asked my oldest brother to help me. I asked if he would like to be treated this way to which he said no. He said if he thought it would help he would try, but it won't so why bother.

Everyone is afraid to get in trouble, so they allow the bully to pick on me.

This isn't currently fixable because they feel they have done nothing wrong. The only way to fix it is for me to say 'I'm sorry' that after putting up with rude unjustifiable behavior for 20 years, after finding it was making me ill to the point I had to make this choice, I am supposed to be sorry I couldn't take it anymore.

If I apologize, I will be treated even more rudely for doing that to them! It's all about them. Things would continue exactly as they were, and I don't have the luxury of seeing how it will affect me psychologically. I am already struggling as it is, and what provoked the final cutoff is that I just about died. I told them it was making me ill and they said 'no, it's not'. When my son asked me if I was going to die, that is when I decided that my children are where my focus needs to be and I can no longer give any emotional energy to them.

I went into a deep denial until the death of my uncle and now for the last two years I cannot get it off of mind. My uncle left my children money( I think my parents got him to cut me off) and they have not informed me about this at all. This of course stirred up memories. I don't think families are supposed to end like this. I know my uncle is speaking to me from beyond the grave, he wants me to fix this, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what to do.

I'm sure this sounds crazy but thank you for listening.

I particularly appreciate you giving me the time since I came across so rude and aggressive initially. Please forgive me.

    Bookmark   September 3, 2012 at 1:54PM
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Honey, all I can tell you is that if your uncle wants you to fix this, he's even meaner than your parents.
On the whole, families are not supposed to end like this. Sadly, though, some do.

If you are being bullied and everyone else goes along with the bullying, standing up for yourself in a polite but assertive way may work, especially with the bystanders, but the only sure way you can break the dynamic is to detach yourself from the group and leave them to it. Eventually they will pick another scapegoat.

I know they are your parents, but if they weren't, would you choose to be around these toxic people? I would hope not.

Resolving this kind of conflict unless both parties are in agreement just won't happen. It's like the Middle East or Ireland. The situation there will take generations to fix and you don't have generations, dear. You could keep bashing your head against the brick wall but it will feel so good when you stop.

In your shoes I would just keep away from the toxic people and the drama. If the inheritance was worth pursuing (ie most of it wouldn't be used up in legal costs) I'd go after it legally, otherwise mentally write it off and pretend it never happened. If your parents are as you described them, you're never going to get it anyway.

    Bookmark   September 4, 2012 at 2:40PM
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I have read through all these posts and I feel a sense of relief and validation. My own situation is reflected in what many of you have described.

I have walked away. I do not want my 28 and 30 year old adult children back. Am I heartless? No, they don't deserve me.
If they could learn to value and respect me, then perhaps one day, I will welcome them back but for now, I am walking away so that I can recover from the pain, rejection, loss, confusion, grief and sadness that I never knew it was possible to inflict on a loving, devoted, self sacrificing parent. Yes, like you, I have done my best. I don't regret this, I feel glad that my children only ever knew love, warmth, nurturing and safety but I totally agree with the author of this thread, I fear for society when adult children can turn into such mercenary, selfish and cruel people. We come from a generation where we would never have treated our parents in the same way. Somehow, something very toxic has permeated this generation, I agree, I feel certain that most of it can be attributed to the attitude of entitlement but I think society in general has evolved into a self obsessed, self absorbed, self praising culture inspired by TV and the current trend of idolising the lifestyle of celebrities.

What I would say to everyone on here, including needhelp77, who is presenting a view from a different angle, is to go and get help if you can. I did. I didn't need help in the sense I needed psychoanalysing, but I did need help to cope and understand not to mention processing the grief because it does feel like a bereavement.

Once you've decided to end the pain, walk away, whatever, it doesn't make you a bad parent. You must only see this action as a means to survive an extremely unfair and difficult situation. This will allow you to reconnect with your own sense of battered self esteem and through this, you can start to develop some strength. From a position of strength, you can then start to handle things much better. For a start you move from a position of need to one of stability in your own thinking. You start to grow respect and value for yourself. When you're at this point, you can then make a clear decision, do you want them back or do you want to take time out for you, years even, until they can treat you with the respect you deserve. It may never happen, the damage might be too great on both sides. But, by taking back control and power, it will help you master your own emotions and help you to set much stronger boundaries. It is their loss but let them discover this for themselves. You look after YOU! You owe them nothing. Your life is yours now so please find a way to create happiness. It's hard, Lord knows, it's harder than anything I've ever gone through, but find the strength not to be bitter. Move away, cut off contact, stop the pain and start again. It will take strength and courage but once the pain stops and they begin to fade out of memory and sight, you really will start to see amazing progress in your own attitude and progress. In some ways, I think this is a kind of sad destiny for us as a society. While some people have nothing, others don't appreciate anything. Maybe we all have something to learn. Thankyou for letting me share my thoughts. Hugs to you all. xxx

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 8:19AM
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I am glad I found this site, I can relate to most of your experiences, I am 72 years old and lost my husband Aug 27th of this year and moved from Las Vegas to the Northwest because my 44 yo daughter wanted me to be around her and her 3 sons, I have an adult 43 yo son also living here, He has not spoken to us for years after he called us and said he never had any parents, Both our children were adopted. I was a strict parent in a lot of ways insisting on chores and good behavior. I gave them everything they wanted I did so because I was so grateful to have them and I guess I thought I owed them anything they wanted, The first verbal attack from my daughter was a week after my husband died, I was shocked, She called me evil, sick in the head and a liar, I completely broke down However I guess out of fear of being alone I over looked it and agreed to move, The deal was we would rent a house together so they could have a bigger space and as she said she was tired of living in a dump. Well she attacked me again and I left and rented an apt for myself and 2 dogs feeling that we needed to live apart, The verbal abuse has continued and the latest attack was when I asked to use my car ( she does not have one) In order to shop or do anything I had to do it when she had time) Then my 3 grandsons started in on me by texting terrible things and accusing me of "playing games" It was the last straw. I was at the bottom and prayed for the courage to walk away. I have and I know I need to heal. She took half my furniture because she had only one couch, She took things as she felt entitled to what ever I had, I feel a little better after finding this site as I know now I am not alone in having abusive adult children, Both have mental illness in their biological families.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2012 at 2:20AM
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Sorry to hear of your situation. If you are so inclined I would run a search on estrangement and you may find other sites that deal with this issue. Specifically, I found a good one that has many different helpful articles and it is called E-Stranged. The articles are written by a therapist and her name is Fiona McCall. I've found them very helpful, more so than many of the other sites dealing with the same issues.

Best of luck to you.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2012 at 4:40PM
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It was painful at first - of course! But why let it continue? He made it clear what purpose I was to be in his new life with his bridey: free nanny for future brood and I declined.

There were a few years BEFORE this that were absolute awful. He WAS troubled. IN trouble. Even while he was dating this she beast his mother *me and step-father was bailing him out and helping him! Then the awful wedding.

That was back in 2004. Like a brick had fallen on my head (actually it was an attack from a hair stylist on me and my daughter both at the wedding hair "thing" that woke me up).

I sent an email to my son letting him know he would not get away with treating me like that any more. He returned that by demanding I apologize to her. And NO MORE EMAILS! Right? I did nothing. I jumped thru the hoops with a smile glued to my face - paid what I was expected to and was basically ignored. It hurt. This went.on.for.years.

So goodbye to them! Of course she goes on her social pages to tell of how I ignored my granddaughter and I was bipolar, etc, etc. She cannot stop twisting that knife she alone put between my should blades? Come on! No more.

It has been over 8 years. I am calmer. Happier. Organic. Gluten free. I love my life without those two unhappy people bent on using everyone to death.

My hopes is that you all find a place of peace with your troublemakers. Give them a time out and do something nice just for yourself. If you do it long enough you wont miss them. Change phone numbers. Email addies. Why take the abuse?

Good luck to all. :)

    Bookmark   January 17, 2013 at 9:25AM
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Here's a quote from the original poster: "... I remember, earlier this year, breaking down on the phone to her, sobbing uncontrollably, because of the way both her and her sister completely ignored me, and went out shopping leaving me in a big house on my own, not caring if I lived or died, and all she could say was that she had no time for this (me crying about being left alone,) the girl has no soul..."

Um, if you are crying because your daughters are going shopping without you, YOU are the problem, not them.

If being in a house by yourself causes you to 'break down', again, YOU are the problem, not them.

If being alone in the house while your daughters go shopping is evidence that they don't care if you 'live or die', YOU are the problem, not them.

This is neurotic behavior on your part. It's not normal. Grown women do not break down into crying fits because they are alone in a 'big' house while other family members go shopping. And to see it as evidence that they do not care if you live or die is and evidence that they have no soul, is actually evidence that you are emotionally ill and have very poor adult coping skills.

And your daughter's response that she doesn't have time for this nonsense is a healthy response. Your breakdown is not.

You said you were going to start going to therapy. I hope you do. You'll be happier for it.

Here's the thing about estrangement: If you have more than one child estranged from you--it IS you.

And this business of: "I don't know what I/we did" is nonsense. At some point you were told. If you didn't listen, or you waved it off with "that's not justification for cutting me off" (which is not your decision), then you can't say you weren't told and don't know. Your agreement or approval is not necessary. You may think it's not important or significant, but if they are cutting you off, you are wrong: it IS important. Deciding which issues are important enough to cut you off is THEIR right, not yours, and it's best to respect their decision and LISTEN.

A lot of you parents who get cut off say things like: we had an argument... Why the heck are you arguing with adult children? There's nothing to argue about, they are adults. Do you also argue with your neighbors, coworkers, cousins, etc...? Are you an argumentative person. Well, perhaps that's the reason. And unless you are 6 years old, don't even try the "...well, my daughter started it..." Yes, and you jumped right in.

I have read here a lot: I was an alcoholic, I had depression, I had to work all the time, I had a bad divorce from my ex, etc... But that was a long time ago, and they need to get over it. I did the best I could.

Well guess what? Your best wasn't good enough. Your drinking problem, depression, absence, divorce drama, whatever HURT them, being defensive about it is not going to solve anything. Asking your children to see you as a victim of something whether your addiction, illness, depression, ex, financial woes, whatever, is wrong. Your children will resent it.

Another thing I read here a lot is: I gave them everything, love, security, blah, blah, blah. I raised them right. I dedicated my life to them, maybe I shouldn't have, they turned out to be selfish brats., if they turned out to be selfish brats, you did not raise them right and didn't give them everything.

And then there's enmeshment. If you are a parent who needs to be enmeshed to feel loved and safe, you are very likely to have problems with your adult children. To you enmeshment and 'closeness' (we are very close, we are a close knit family) is the 'right' way. Anything else is unkind, cruel, selfish, unloving, narcissistic, mentally ill. But to adult children, enmeshment does not feel warm and loving, it feels controlling and smothering. And they will fight to get free of you. Autonomy is a compelling developmental milestone in a human being's life just as much as going through the terrible twos is. If you've been damaged by life and fear it and have retreated into enmeshment (and codependency, etc), you may be surprised and hurt and panicked when your child hits that miles and surpasses it. His/her autonomy feels like abandonment and rejection to you. And you explain it to yourself that there's something wrong with your child--but the truth is, there's something wrong with you. Enmeshment problems can only be dealt with professional help. A lot of times, especially with boys enmeshment problems don't show up until your child gets married. Which brings me to...

No, it's not the fault of your child's spouse. Nobody can poison your child against you. No matter how horrible your child's spouse is, (abusive, controling, a ex-con, addict, manipulative, whatever), they STILL can't 'poison' your child against you. Your child's relationship started with you long before the spouse came along, and your child is making his/her own judgments about it. I know that it's soothing to pretend it's someone poisoning your weak-minded little lovebug, but that's not what's happening. Even if the spouse IS bad talking you, your child is matching his/her words against what he/she knows to be true about you in his/her experience. If what the spouse says matches what your child already knows, guess's not the spouse, it's YOU.

Defensiveness on your part, minimizing their complaints, blaming others, focusing on how your child tells you rather than the content of what he tells you are all games you are playing to avoid taking responsibility for your part. NO estrangement, and that is NO without ANY exceptions, is the fault of just one side. If you are estranged from your child, YOU are at least partially to blame, and you need to change some things about yourself.

In the OP, where the poster goes into hyper drama mode of emotional breakdown and wailing about how her children don't care if she lives or dies because they go shopping without her leaving her alone in her own house, she is clearly mostly to blame for the estrangement. She's obviously histrionic and neurotic--but even the daughters have some blame: they aren't handling her well. They shouldn't have to, but fate gave them a drama queen for a mother and they need better interaction skills. However, they weren't here writing for advice, and the mother was.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2013 at 11:54AM
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judy1940-"I am 72 years old and lost my husband Aug 27th of this year and moved from Las Vegas to the Northwest because my 44 yo daughter wanted me to be around her and her 3 sons, I have an adult 43 yo son also living here, He has not spoken to us for years, both have mental illness in their bio families"

I'm sorry for your loss. I know a friend who has two adopted children. Boy and girl. She lost her husband and the son took advantage of her and got control of her estate. Please be careful dealing with these kids, they don't sound like they have your best interests in mind.

Can you move back to Las Vegas? Are there friends you could look up again? At least it would be warmer and there are more resources for retirees there.

Best wishes going forward.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2013 at 10:52PM
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After 2 years of my 36 year old daughter accusing me of not protecting her from her brother 30 years ago, I have disowned her. She told me 2 years ago her brother, 4 yrs older, had sexually abused her when she was 8. They were close as adults until this came out. Since then she has moved away and treated me terrible, calked me names and blamed me. She is bi-polar and refuses to take medication or see a dr. I have told her repeatedly I love her and would help her work through this but felt she needed professional help to overcome the past. Her brother after begging for forgiveness time and again reminding her he was a kid also gave up and wants nothing to do with her. I no longer know what to do and because it hurts each time I try to phone her or when she leaves ugly voice mails ony phone, I've blocked her number. I'm hurting but I just don't feel the same. Somehow I know it will never change and I've decided I need to let her go.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2013 at 8:07PM
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OMG, what cruel people you and your son are: You all acknowledge that your daughter was sexually molested by your son and yet you disown HER not your SON? What are you thinking? Of course she has emotional problems--that's what happens when you suffer from incestuous rape as a small child and your parents don't protect you.

You want this all just to go away and make it easy for you to pretend happy families. Your son raped his sister. You cannot be happy families.

I don't blame your daughter for being angry with you; she's right: You did not protect her from her brother, and you blame her now, and call HER mentally ill (not the rapist) and you disown HER rather than the one who really should be disowned.

And you think YOU are the victim.

It just amazes me how clueless bad parents are.

Please disown your son and be patient, kind and loving with your daughter. And take some responsibility for not protecting your daughter from your son and for not raising your son right. This is a terrible story, you really need to make amends to your daughter and step up to the plate.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2013 at 11:48AM
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Your son is your child, an adult child, NOT your best friend. He got married and is now centering his life on his wife, not on you. You need to find friends among your peers and stop relying on him.

Your complaints are petty. He didn't have a long enough engagement? He went out of town to his future FIL on Father's Day instead of you? He didn't involve you in the wedding planning? He didn't make time for you before the wedding? He doesn't stop at the house any more? He doesn't want you opening his mail?

This is all petty stuff based on you being hurt that you are no longer the center of your son's life. You need to get a life of your own. Find friends your own generation and stop relying on your son to provide you with validation and entertainment.

He keeps telling you he's busy. Well, he is. He's a husband now and busy creating a life with his wife. He isn't going to be your sidekick anymore.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2013 at 12:19PM
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I didn�t ask you for your advice. Why don�t you spend your time working on whatever brought you to this forum instead of spewing your nonsense after every post in this forum. It is very clear that you are emotionally bankrupt and I for one don�t care why you�re here. Everyone here has posted their circumstanses except YOU which makes me think you are a fraud and probably someone underage. Get yourself some help!! You need it!!

1 Like    Bookmark   January 24, 2013 at 7:11PM
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I am so grateful I found this forum. I am a mother of two adult children. A 32 yr old son who's a police office & a 28 yr old daughter. My daughter stopped talking to me about 5 years ago for no reason. My son stopped talking to me about a year ago. I thought I was alone. I feel like I can't ever get over this anguish & heartbreak. Some days I feel like I'm slowly dying of a broken heart. It truly feels like a death. But I pray every night that God keeps them safe, healthy & happy. Even if its not with me in their lives. After reading some of these posts I have to say we all have a common bond through our pain. We don't know what we did wrong. Some of us do. I feel now after reading these posts I was emotional baggage to my kids. I saw them as an extension of my existence and maybe they owed me for their very lives. But that's not true. It must have hurt them to hear me complain about all the dysfunction in my life and they must have felt helpless and exhausted by my turmoil. Turmoil that was mine to own up to and fix on my own!!! It's not their job to carry the weight of my happiness or lack thereof on their shoulders. It is what it is.... I'm tired of crying & thinking & dreaming of them constantly. Yes... They ripped my heart out but I have a lot more of life to live and a wonderful husband and friends & I've been unfair to these people who want me in their lives and care about me. Today I found this forum and I'm going to continue reading your posts because I know I'm not alone anymore and I'll be okay and maybe even happy with or without my adult children. I wish them love, health and happiness and deep down inside I know they wish the same for me. There's nothing we can do about it. They are adults now and not our babies. We did our jobs and raised them and now they belong to the world and they're adults. You've all helped me. I hope I've helped you too. Thank you :)

    Bookmark   March 8, 2013 at 10:13PM
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Janine407, it does get a bit easier over time from my personal experience and it seems as though you're on your way to becoming whole again. Be well!

    Bookmark   March 9, 2013 at 7:26AM
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Thank you rcrjr. :)
It does hurt like nothing I've ever felt & I've tried everything to get my kids to respond to my emails, phone calls & texts. I've never tried just being happy and letting it all go. Let it Be. I think I'll try being happy one day at a time without my adult children in my life :). If they ever want to reach out to me they know how to find me. If they don't (yes, I perish the thought) I need to take responsibility for my own happiness. They left my womb a very long time ago. I made sacrifices for them as every mother does. Now it's "me" time.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2013 at 4:32PM
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FlowerGardenMuse sounds like a robot. All intellect and no heart. She doesn't seem to get it that everyone doesn't need to go to therapy! Don't we all have a relative like that? How annoying.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2013 at 11:52PM
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Wife left, took everything,( to cause sabotage) inc kids. Two years of struggle to get access; court gave me custody. We now lived in real poverty, but set about having a lot of adventures, and fun. Slowly recovered. Our family was very popular with kids from conventional homes. In fact, one extra girl came to live, with her parents gratitude! Now kids are M40, M38, F36. No contact whatsoever from M40, F36. (but M38 is my best mate!) The other two seem pointedly unkind, but for no apparent reason. Independent opinion is that Mother probably exerts influence, and this is very difficult to contend with. I am seeking constructive ideas, even to the point of a way to confront the mother with a positive opportunity to discuss the past. I am sure I will only get one chance to do this effectively, so I need a good plan. I am inclined towards kindness and civilised ideas.
The struggle to give them all a good life deserves a better outcome than this. Wise thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I feel like an Eskimo left out on the ice!

    Bookmark   May 3, 2013 at 9:14AM
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Dadofthree, I am sorry. I understand exactly how you feel. If you will allow time to become your friend it will get easier. Try not to allow yourself to accept too many indignities thinking that allowing them to treat you poorly will eventually cause them to see the light.

I stood my ground with my son in a similar manner and wouldn't allow him to be disrespectful by not replying to him when he was. He is finally coming around slowly without his wife for now. He is a police officer and is getting promoted soon and just yesterday he asked if I would attend the ceremony so things do change for the better.

You did the best you could for them and that counts for a lot. Enjoy the one child that is still close to you. Many of us here didn't have that option. Be well!

    Bookmark   May 3, 2013 at 9:43AM
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hello.. i am very thankful to have a place to see and share my story, just like many others. I was a single mother of 2( i am now married), raise my kids alone, and did my best to raise them with manors, respect, and i thought i did a pretty good job for the most part. I had issues with my daughter as an early teen, shortly after my commomlaw long term boyfriend passed away from drug issues. although he was great with my kids, he had his own addictions that took his life, and forever changed mine through events that occured after. My daughter became very upset with me after he passed when i decided to get on with my life and move on with the man i eventually married. there were many years of heartache from her rebellious behavior that followed for almost 5 years. I assumed for the most part this was a way of coping with his death. but through coucelling that came after, i found i was not alone in dealing with a behavioral teenage daughter and found most of it others had gone through as well. without getting into too much detail, i will try to explain where/how i got to where i am today. Alone( of course i am still married, but lost and disowned by my children). after the teenage years of disrepect, constant disregard for any rules and her knowing it all, my daughter left my home at age 13. living on the streets , powerless to bring her back from a certain fate of drugs and the lifestyle that comes with it. i had a breakdown from being worried sick and was unable to contiune working, so my now husband, was able to help in me staying home to try to reach my child and stay focused on issues at had. sadly this did not work very well. she was hard to deal with, always knew more than i did of course, and was set on living life her way. after months of pleading and fighting with her and the Ministry to help me, i was able to bring her home for a short while. But she didnt want to stay as there were too many rules. having said that.... time went on.. i convinced her to at least g o into CARE so i could have a shred of a chance to keep a eye on her. I even tried moving out from my house to re interergrate her back into our lives to become a family again. this happened many times, until she was of move on her own. we had at the very least always stayed in contact. i was thankful for that. But she was always a drama queen and somewhat of a manipulator, but i thought i handled this quite well. more years past, our relationship got better, but there was always a strain from her stepdad and her to get along and she was usually the one to sabatoge things. i was in the middle for few years, but worked hard on keeping everyone together. my son and i had no issues and had a great gave this background on her to show that she is strong willed strong minded, opinionated, but at the same time...usually would come around and realise things werent so bad. then life was a series of visits and fights as she got older, always with the drama.that last 2 years have been the happiest times...but the cause of my worste nightmare. with our realtionship intact, we were all getting along, even if hubby and daughter would sometimes tolerate each other, things were better. then i became a grandmother.Both of my kids had babies with in a year of eeach other. i was elated. life could be better. i work on the road as a truckdriver so i was gone alot at this point in thier lives, but it was new for ua all. we always kept in contact, and even though i havent painted a pretty picture, i had always been able to talk to my kids about an issues and usually through hard work, solve them and move on. but last Nov i was blindsided by my daughters anger and hurtful personality all over again, only this time it rocked my world, and turned it upside down and sideways. forever the drama queen, she sometimes feeds on any drama to make life miserable if she is unhappy. well i made her unhappy yet again. she has treated me with such anger and disrespect, and has involved my son/granddaughter, and as a result, they have had no contact with me Since NOv/12. Now i know i am blame shifting, but i am telling the back side of the story. all my life i tried to give my kids love, and i tried to help them any way i could.Love, money, rides, care, try to be there for them when i could. In the last 2 years while my daughter was creating turmoil, i tried ti ignore what i could and keep the peace because i had grandkids now. i knew things were still unstable but for the most part we were getting along. Then the other drama starting coming from my sons G/f. She had shown a dislike to us from the start. all of a sudden making plans for christmas was an ordeal to include us and things like that because she was unhappy with the relationship i had with my son. he was mereley happy to see us when we came in off the road and would want to spend time with us as we would only be in for a few days at a time, before being gone..for months at a time. so them things got more compicated with the visits, and then he became stuck in the middle becuase she would not want to allow us to visit with our granddaughter. long story was us or her. So he was in a rock and a hard pplace. for the most part he tried for a long time to keep peace. i know it botheres him to not be in my life, si it created stress.This stress was not lost on me either. were made to feel that we were unfit to be arounf HER daughter, but my son would try to take our side, so things were unstable for about a year. then, his g/f got the chance she was looking for. We had made plans to go out with our grnaddaughter one day to the zoo, and i made the mistake of inviting my daughter to come because i thought it would be a happy day for us all to be together. to me that day was wonderful! i finally had both grandkids and my daughter and husband all together and we were enjoying our day. this was in Sept. nothing happened that day except a conversation my husband abd daughter had about my son's g/f. I had been complaining about the way she was treating me and hubby in preventing us from havin time with my granddaughter. it was a grown up conversation, amongest adults. so i was upset and made a couple comments in distaste about her. i was fed up with her behavior and it was getting under my skin. but we ended our day...unknwing that that conversation would later kick me in the ass. weeks later my daughter had been returning to her opinionated self, and rather moody. we had discussed plans for my grandsons Bday and i thought i was not going to be able to make it, due to my job, and i would be out of the province until OCt, this upset her and set her on a path of distruction.but i didnt know it yet. she became angrier with me with every phone call, disrespectful and i was losing strenght to continue to deal with it. So i made arrangments to make sure i would be there. this then brought on the self pity and anger of not wanting me there anyways...but still i came... So on the day of his birthday, we were having fun, regardless of the tension, until i got a text from my son. it turned out she had been so angry with me that she had gone to his G/f and told him things i said about her. which was fine by me, i did not deny it...but then she threw in a couple of adlibs of her own and tried to turn it into my saying things to my granddaughter. when the g/f heard that..she was angry, but then it turned into, well, i must have brainwashed her to mis-behave for her when we dropped her off that night...totally BS. But in turn, this was th ammo she and my daughter created, and she was ready to put my son on was her or me. He was upset that i said it at all, but i explained it was half truths. i tried to plead my case with him on the phone to explain that was not what we did at all. Next thing you know im thrown into this big drama... i argue with my daughter, she yells and says such horrible hateful things to me. My son just stopped talking to me at that point. no one cares that i see what was going on, i know they set me up to fall for comments, and the g/f finally got what she wanted. they said hurtful things, i have gone through much depression, i cry about it all the time. i miss them so much it hurts. And through it all, it seems they dont care. So i try to contact them, i even tried to email to have explainations as to why something so small, would be used to get rid of me. There has to be more to it than that. I have sat up for months thinking of what happened. going throug it in my mind. the hate i felt from my daughter that day, and the feeling of her using me as a tool to get rid of me. I tried to contact them to talk to them after a couple months. My son never did reply, i know for him, its more on his g/f's side than his. I recognise hes doing it to save his relationship, and someday i hope he realises he was wrong, but my forever spiteful daughter has been slandering me all over FB, and to other people, just hateful words that cut like a knife. And i find myself asking, WHat happened?? can they really just be using this as an excuse to rid me from thier lives? I fell that they do not care for me at all. there was more dramas than what i wrote, becasue this would be a book, but at the end of the day...i KNOW what my part in it was, and i cant help but feel set up by my daughter. And when i reached out to talk to her, to open lines of communication, i was met with more distain adn told to stop contacting her. "she was moving on with her life, and going places".. i was shut down. I hurt so incredibly..i dont know who i am sometimes without being a mom. I have a hard time believing my kids would leave me... it makes me sad. and im tryin to continue with my life, because i have too. But somedays, i just think about them non stop...and i miss my grandkids. I know i am missing so much as they are just little. The bonding has been cut off. i continue because i have a wonderful husband who cares for me, and relalises he needs to be there for me. The only thing i can do is wait, and it kills me. the not knowing kills me. i read these stories tonight, and i realise i am not alone. So i thank you for sharing your stories and i look forward to advice on how to cope with my uncertain future without my kids.
Thank you for listening

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 8:16AM
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Tonight I was just watching a bit of youtube. Feeling somewhat helpless and sad. I then googled Estranged adult children and found this thread. I am so sad for all of you. For all of us. I thought I did all the things right. As did her father. We took the things that were wrong in our families and did our best to "right them". Our daughter was given everything, status. Her father is a professional with a doctorate. I too am a retired science teacher. I took early retirement as I am ill. I have SLE. We moved to a nice town to give her a better education (of course for sister too.). Garth Brooks lives here and his kids go to the same school as mine. The girls know his kids too. This is a very fine public education system in the wealthy small town. She lives in a beautiful home. While it is pretty, we don't live beyond our means and it is very modest to how.....we could live....if we had borrowed up to our eye balls. We taught her about money and gave her an allowance. We had her do chores (about 15 to 20 min a day with Sundays off.) We went to church and did the VBS things, with me helping and dad too every summer. She went to camp. She went on a couple of mission trips. She has a beautiful room that I was about to remodel for her when her dad and I realized that things were never going to change and perhaps she needed to move out. She grew up with friends she knew her whole life (My BFs I have known since I was 12, that was over 30 years ago.) I have stable relationships in my life as does my husband. She grew up with the same kids. Good kids who stayed out of trouble (for the most part.) I did projects with her in school. We took nice family vacations together. I gave her wonderful birthday parties and other parties with her friends and with church youth. She had an acre to play as a kid. We bought all the gaming systems, we have a pool table and playroom just for "playing". We did play with our kids and spent time with them. We live in a nice neighborhood. She went trick or treating and did all the childhood things children should do. We bought her all the latest electronics and did keep the computer in the kitchen until she was 16. My daughter began having her issues early in childhood. We tried everything to make her happy. Nothing did. Not guitar lessons, dance lessons, pom squad, soccer, you name it we tried it. We told her she was beautiful. While not gifted in school (partly because of her behavior she was tracked and not given the best of teachers.) we still told her she was so very valuable. She has this amazing talent in art. We sent her to college for two years...she lied to us about classes. Now after nearly five thousand dollars....of our money....she hardly has anything to show for it. She got into this fantasy life of vampires and wolves at about 15. What I thought was a phase.....never left her. While her father and I have had some problems.....we worked them out and stayed together. While we have had some drama in our family, mostly we shielded the girls. While it wasn't a perfect was pretty close to it. I'd give it a B plus. She has a younger sister by 3 years. Her father was very devoted and worked hard. We did buy her a car, but we made her pay $4,000 for a $10,000 car. She had no less than 5 wrecks. She stole from my credit card $1,200 (in total) she stole a lot of coins from her dads collection. We removed the rest of the college money and put it up in the bank at the lock box as I wanted to save this for her to go to school for some kind of vocation. She kept her room so dirty (I keep a very clean house.) that twice I had to kill mice. Whatever rule we made and tried to enforce she just broke. No matter how much we loved or was never enough. We found out that last year, while we were on vacation, she got some pot so her and 15yr old sister could smoke it. It isn't just us. The things she does on Facebook is shocking. She made a movie with her and her boyfriend basically having sex. Her own Grandma and Grandpa saw this. Everyone in the family did. She doesn't care. However at 20 yrs, Last November....her and I had an argument and she slapped me. Her father told her that she needed to save her money. He also told her that if she ever slapped me again, we would have her arrested and press charges. Whenever she was confronted with her behavior, she always glared at we did something wrong. We tried everything with her. I talked to counselors. I asked her if she wanted to talk to someone. She didn't. But that slap did change things. Now she was an adult and we didn't have to put up with this behavior. We did discuss this with a few of our dearest friends and they suggested we move her out. So we did. She had her last Temper Tantrum on Jan.30th of this year.....and in 5 hours I packed up her things (Where we found she had taken many of our things. including a wallet with $ and gift cards given to her sister...who thought she lost it. This was her sisters holiday money and gifts. Her sister found out that big sis stole the wallet and the gift cards and money.) We are like???? Who does that??? She was given the same amount. Given the same gifts. Her reasoning when her sister asked why she stole?? "I was mad at you." As a family we were dumbfounded. I did realize too...that I have another daughter and the behavior was beginning to take its toll on my younger. So when we asked her to move out. She stayed with friends. She then moved into a house on her own. I tried to buy her some food, things for her room. I tried to set it up for us to have breakfast at least every couple of weeks. We invited her to the house. Then her sister and I went on a road trip to visit friends who had moved "east". Younger sister and I reconnected. It was wonderful. The minute we got back to town....big sis wanted to come to the house and see her. I was like great. So she spent the afternoon. She wanted to see a movie that night, but little Sis was tired (and really didn't want to go.) I told older sister that they could see a movie some other time. My husband supported this too. Our daughter became so angry. Just seething that we had said "no". She hasn't spoken to us in two months. She recently moved to a bad part of town.....she has dropped what little friends she had and is living with some guy who is described as a scary dude. That description comes from "her peers." Then we found out that she dropped out of college and didn't bother to withdraw. So we foot the bill and consequently it has damaged her gpa beyond repair. (She told us she wanted to go into nursing school.) She lied to us for 5 months while collecting $ from us and her grandparents (Who were giving her an allowance....our money was for college...we put into a 529 plan monthly.) Her grandmother cant believe she just lets the lies roll off her tongue like spit. Her little sister wants nothing to do with her. she misses her but not the behavior. Our home has been quiet and stable. However, we love and miss her. We never dreamed this is how our daughter would turn out. I know we are not alone. We have been told by many people, who have confided in knowing what we are going through,,,,that this generation feels "entitled". They take, bum borrow or steal whatever they think they "should have". Without regard for anyone's feelings. Without regard for "how it will look" without regard for "reputation". I know it has to be pretty bad when her boyfriend (Who was dating her for over a year.) contacted me to talk. She became so angry with him, when she didn't get her way. She became physically violent with him too. I don't know where she learned this. Her father and I are not physically violent people. Mind you, we don't let folks walk all over us, but we certainly don't go around hitting people. We never spanked the girls out of anger. Even when they did get a spanking it was never more than three swats at a time....that was so rare. Usually we opted for punishments...not long drawn out ones. We read books, we visited with our friends. So here we are.....she isn't talking to us. I feel like a hostage. I am on chemo therapy. Currently I have a nasty blood infection. The more time goes by, the more I think I wont have to spend with my illness progresses. My husband is upset too. She withholds her affections and it hurts him too. Now I am starting on a slow burn. I told him, that if she tries to warm up to us....for her "Christmas Bonus", I will include her in everything we do as a family, however I am not going to shower her with gifts. I don't even want her over until we get our safe fixed. IF you have advice. Id love to hear. If you have admonishments, keep them to yourself.....nobody beats themselves up harder than her father and I. Thanks!

    Bookmark   August 11, 2013 at 1:33AM
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I stumbled onto this thread/website this morning, at 7:49 a.m. because this morning like every other morning, I wake up and my daughter is immediately in my thoughts. I am looking for answers I don't really believe I'll find. I'm not sure how much longer I can do this. I really think this will be the thing that will break me...and I have always been very proud of my strength. I can physically feel the changes in my heart and my emotions. I can't move forward in anything right now in my life until it is resolved. And I see no hope of that. My situation has it's own uniqueness I guess in that I have nothing really to go explanation...just theories. And I have a new theory ever 10 seconds. That has become my life now...evaluating every scenario in my mind over and over, trying to find peace.
I raised two children. A son, now 23...and a daughter now 26. Their father and I divorced when they were small but he and I have maintained a good relationship over the years. There was never a custody battle or a war over belongings. We went our separate ways, I moved not thirty minutes from where he lives so that they could be with him whenever they wanted. I wanted to keep changes to a minimum for them. I was a very involved mom...volunteered at the school so much that they finally put me on the payroll and I worked there 21 years. Was a girl scout and boy scout leader. My daughter was a cheerleader all through school. I went to every game...every function. I mean I could go on with this forever. I didn't have a ton of money, but I gave them all I could. Long story short, she grew up, got married last October into a wealthy family. I felt we were close...minus the typical mother/daughter arguments. You know, the ones where you just feel they are headed for a trainwreck and somebody has to be the bad guy and be point, blank honest with them for their own good. Yes, I've done that over the years. Also, she has pointed out a couple of times that I was too hard on her brother. Now I will be the first to admit that her brother was one I had to push to motivate. There was yelling at times just to get him through do his homework...stay focused..etc. And thank God he did graduate high school. But there were no blood curdling screams or beatings by any means. I hope that someday she has the most perfect, motivated children God could ever bless her with...and that she never ever has to raise her voice to them...because according to her that is the absolute end of the world. Anyhow, I love them both beyond measure. They are my heart and soul. My daughter is seeing a therapist for depression and on depression medication. She has totally cut me out of her life...just like that. I have two text messages that told me that she needed time to heal and when she was ready, she would tell me. Tell me what? She won't speak to me...won't take my calls, my texts are ignored. She posts these quotes on her facebook page that I'm guessing I am supposedt to get some kind of underlying message the point that I have blocked it from my newsfeed simply because it leaves me more confused. I mean, do we really have to communicate on a public forum??? I tried contacting her via text awhile back and I said I missed her and I'm trying to give her space but I was scared that this void would just grow. Her reply: "I need you to try harder....I need more time....that's all I have for you right now." I know this is vague but honestly...that is how it all has come about. No warning, no nothing. That was 4 months ago. My dad has passed away...I have lost my job...18 pounds and the will to live. My son is the only thing I am hanging onto right now. I have prayed without ceasing. I have not seen a therapist because frankly...I think that is part of her problem. I mean if that's where this is coming from...therapy....who tells a person to stop talking to their parent?

    Bookmark   August 22, 2013 at 8:27AM
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Tinashell, please do go see a therapist or counselor. Having a family member with depression is very difficult, and a good counselor will help you sift through the situation and get some perspective.

Some people with depression cut themselves off from friends and family, and sometimes the reasons have absolutely nothing to do with the friends and family and everything to do with the depressed person.

    Bookmark   August 22, 2013 at 9:50AM
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Hi Tinashell
I can feel your pain has I read your heartbreaking words. I can honestly tell you that I am living a similar life. I am missing out on 2 grandchildren because of a daughter who feels I was a bad parent after she turned 15!
I don't think I was a bad parent and possibly her anger could be from another time when she was younger. I was a single mom too and our time is stretched so thin that its hard to wear every hat.
Enough about me, I want you to know I have been in your shoes, felt like throwing in the towel but its pointless.
First of all our economy has changed everyone, I believe it has depressed our country, not sure why it's not called A Depression-it feels that way.
Our youth are very self centered but I guess it was our generation that created it.
When an adult child stops talking to us and keeps us out of their lives it like loosing a limb. I cry sometimes so hard I think I will go insane. She lives 1200 miles away so I can't get there very often. Over the years of her baiting me with the kids then shutting me out for something I didn't do right I have decided to change me. I would surely die if I didn't.
I can hold my head up and decide that my daughter is toxic to me. I've given her all my best has a mom and still love her completely but she is on her path now. I forgive myself and kiss my grandkids in spirit. I pray to see them and to have a better relationship with my daughter but until then I made changes.

You must make some too. No matter how small, find ways to find fun and new interests. I know sometimes that is hard to do especially if your already depressed from the situation. I am moving slow with my changes so its isn't sunshine and rainbows yet but the weight that fell off of me when I drew a line was immense. But the thing is, if you can find anything to get focused on it will connect you to the new focus and continue on until you are busy and realized your days/nights aren't about your daughter, they are only about you.

I hate to have time pass when estranged from family, babies grow up, life goes on, people change or even pass. It's wasted time to not love each other but you can't make anyone love you or care. You can do that for yourself though. I didn't think I could or would even be worth it but it is.
The energy that flows amongst us touches us all so focus your energy into your direction, you will find brighter days and new adventures you never thought of.
I was injured when my kids slowly moved out of the family home, my divorce was final, I lost my home, car, job, family pet, and every piece of furniture even my bed has been sold to survive. I have no parents or family other than my kids. I have recovered from my accident but now looking for work and that is frustrating! My point is - I know your pain, your mornings waking up and hoping its a bad dream.
Be strong-make changes to nurture you and hold your head up! You have already survived this much, see what lies ahead that will inspire you to look forward to the next day!

I hope things improve.

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 11:34PM
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I can relate to these stories this is my story I have three daughters one 28 years old married with 3 kids, one that is 22 years old but, has a mental illness, and my youngest is 16 years old. I was married for 26 years then found out about all my ex husbands lies, deception, so one night I told him I was leaving him to do some thinking left my youngest in his care until I came back went to stay with friends went to Alabama and got much needed rest I needed was emotionally and physically exhausted taking care of my husband at the time, his dad in and out of hospital, taking care of his needs, my girls, my grandkids, prior to our marriage my oldest daughter was raised by my parents for two years and as I had her from a previous marriage my parents spoiled her and as she got older it didnt get better they gave her anything she wanted they control her with money. This past year I got a divorce had enough of my husband at time lies and adultry my oldest daughter has turned against me, my middle daughter is with her father with her mental illness she has to be under his care and he has turned her against me she hates me, I got full custody of my minor daughter she is my trooper has stood beside me and the lies my ex told on me while I was gone I adbandon my daughter when I didnt sent letters found out he told whole community I ran off abandon her, my family including my parents took sides, church members took sides, I been blacklisted as the bad guy he almost lost our home didnt make payments for 8 months so I came back straightened out got him out of the house took possession and hired me a divorce lawyer got everything I wanted he has not had a job over a year every job he gets he quits has had like 7 jobs. My daughters dont like my new boyfriend but, he has helped me save the home did all the repairs has been good to me and my youngest daughter and now my oldest daughter telling me I will never see my grandchildren she is trying to dictate who I can be with with control my parents are no better they dont like my boyfriend when they dont even know him he is a good guy and he makes me happy the bad part is I live next door to my parents so I been just ignoring them to try keep trouble down to put the boundaries the thing is I didnt realize it until I left how much control they had over me always in my business, telling me what I needed to do, I was always at everybody's beacon call, in their eyes they are always right and I am always wrong and they treat my daughter more like their daughter and me the outsider and yes it does hurt they are control freaks by bad mouthing me with my two oldest daughters, my parents other grandkids, and my mom is always calling people on the phone gossiping you may ask how I know this I went to her house few weeks ago heard her telling people my business she was on the phone, my daughters are mad because I divorced their dad and they believe his lies he has told them and everybody else. I am 51 years old and I just wanted some happiness for once my ex husband also agreed to the divorce but, he played the victim card so well. My oldest daughter sent me a ugly text few days ago I am not giving into her by her playing the grandchildren card I love them dearly but, for right now I cant be around them, my two oldest daughters, or my parents, have set boundaries and everybody is mad. My youngest daughter has been supportive as well as my boyfriend she adores him just wish everybody saw what a good guy he is. The weird thing is after all this happened I asked myself how is it I missed it didnt see how controling my parents were want things their way or no way and they raised my oldest daughter like that she is a spoiled brat anything she wants she gets grandma and grandpa make sure of that and now my grandchildren are calling my parents grandma and grandpa instead of great grandparents. My parents have treated each grandchild differently. Maybe someday this will all get better I am truely happy now, paying my bills, self suffient, do things my way not the way others wanted me to do things.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2013 at 2:35AM
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PS: I refuse to give in to their demands they are trying to break me and my boyfriend up and I know it they are mad because they cant find anything out have dropped all communication my daughter asked me in her hateful text what is going on? I laughed message back nothing going on so nobody has nothing to report back to my parents what they dont know they cant tell. My daughter said I quote you abandon SOME of your children I told her she is a grown adult 28 years old and her sister is 22 years old she is mad to because she cant use me as a babysitter anymore. I changed my phone number, and blocked them on FB. I think they are jealous of my relationship with my youngest daughter. I just pray someday can see my grandchildren but, cant be on her terms letting her come to me, and far as my parents goes I blame them also for their part in this. The hurt and pain of this ordeal cant begin to explain to someone how it hurts. I hope with time and boundaries this all will get better.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2013 at 2:49AM
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I'm a mother who is being treated "like dirt' by my adult children. I have been a great mother to my kids and all they can do is make me feel guilty- about thier lives blaming me for where they are now. My oldest daughter (who is 35)makes more money than I've ever even dreamed of but she gives her money to a 22 year old father of 5 - she has no kids he is a jobless,felon who is in and out of jail, she never even has gas mone,rent money or food and thinks I'm supposed to provide this. And my youngest son won't work at all but he is always telling me lies saying he needs money for bus fair to look for a job, work boots etc.I moved far away from them and I'm not giving them any money or talking to them. Reading the posts from the other parents makes me know I'm doing the right thing. Thanks to all of you

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 1:08PM
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MsGertrude, good for you. You are lucky to be able to move away, it will save you a lot of stress. Enjoy your new life.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2013 at 1:15PM
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Often times it is nothing we have done to make our adult children to become Estranged from us. But we are the continual "Role Models" for our adult kids. It is Healthy for Parents to Create Strong Boundaries when it comes to Respect, Not Over Indulging Them With Material Things, Giving Them Limits and Accountability and Keeping Your Own Household Stable while Taking Care of Our Own Health and Medical Needs. If Our Adult Children are in is always good to provide them the "tools" needed for them to make the choice to get help and be accountable for their actions.

    Bookmark   October 20, 2013 at 2:10PM
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Reading the heartbreak that other parents are going thru definitely makes me feel not as alone. I am a single mother of a 38 year-old son. I was 19 when I had him and was separated when he was only 2 months old. I was raised in a Catholic family and was taught values. Unfortunately, I married a man who turned out to be abusive (mentally and physically), he was also a cheater, a stealer, and an compulsive liar. It was probably the best thing for my son to NOT have this man in his life; however, I wish that he could have had a good male role model in his life (other than my wonderful father). Many years after my divorce, I found out that my ex-husband committed suicide in his home (and was found by one of his other children -- my son's step brother). As it turns out, I realized that my ex-husband had a mental illness. I now know this because my son has the same illness. Since my son (Michael) was very young, he had the tendency to lie -- he didn't just lie to cover up for himself ... he lied about anything and everything in life. Then, he would steal money from my family members. He would either do it by forgery, or he would do it in other clever ways). I would also like to add that my son has epilepsy, as well as a brittle bone disease. He was in special ed classes most of his life and, as a result, he did not receive the proper education and has low self esteem. I did "everything" for my son, but - I'm afraid - that I might have done "too" much. Although there have been struggles since Michael was in his early teens, the worst has been the last couple of years when he and his wife separated. Not only did SHE have her own issues (drinking, drugs, etc.), together they had a very volatile relationship, which included lack of respect for each other, as well as domestic violence. His wife has a total of 3 boys (one which her father has raised since he was an infant; one from another father, and one from my son). Because of their issues and abuse, Child Protective Services stepped in and gave temporary custody of the boys to me and my boyfriend for almost a year. During this time, the mother went thru the classes, etc. that she needed to go thru, and my son pretty much gave up. He gave up on everything. Then, he started threatening suicide. I had to call "911" on several occasions, where he was admitted into a psychiatric hospital for up to 3 weeks. During this time, he threatened me, telling me that when he got out, he was going to have a "hit" put on me (he felt that "I" was the one that had the power to get him released from the hospital). He also wished me dead. Once the hospital was no longer able to keep him, he was released. He was living in his van for a period of time and things just continued to go out of control. He would (again) threaten suicide to me but, then he wouldn't answer his cel phone when I tried contacting him. I would be in hysterics, thinking that he was going to kill himself the same way his father did (shot himself in the head). My boyfriend and I would drive everywhere looking for him and would finally go to the police department for help. This went on, time and time again. He would also send me pictures of his hand holding a gun or a knife (on the occasions where he would say that he was going to do it). I spent most of our holidays either crying, thinking that he was going to end his life (even on Mother's Day). It was almost like he was angry at "me" for how his marriage turned out. No matter how much I have tried to help him, he continues to torment me. I don't even know who he is anymore. When he was growing up, we were so close. I would have never guessed that the child that I was so thrilled to have, could be telling me that he wished I were dead. I can't believe that my own flesh and blood could see me so heartbroken, yet he continues to torment me emotionally. I know that he has a mental illness (a doctor at a psychiatric hospital diagnosed him as being "borderline personality" (although it wasn't a concrete diagnosis). What is also very sad is that my son won't really admit that he has a problem. He won't admit that his behavior (when he spirals out of control) can be due to having a chemical imbalance. I have tried everything humanly possible. I can honestly say that the last 2 years have been the worst years of my life. They have been worse than the deaths of my parents, as well as me having cancer when I was 32 years old. It is almost like my son has an incurable disease and I have been grieving every single day for the last couple of years. Although I have an incredibly wonderful supportive boyfriend of over 10 years, and my grandchildren are the highlight of my life, I have never been so sad and have never cried so much. I feel that I will never get peace in my life ... that I will never feel happiness again. I want so badly to be able to have a nice life with my boyfriend, but I just don't know how to get to that place. I am trying to do everything that may help me to get healthy .... I pray, go to counseling, and have taken a course on mental illness.... I'm just looking for a way to accept that my son may never get better. I just don't know how to give up but I am so weak emotionally that I feel like I'm going to have a breakdown. I have finally decided that - if my son sends me text messages or calls me, and starts saying things that affects me emotionally, I am going to tell him that I love him but I can no longer accept the disrespect and cruelty that he is putting me thru. Please - if anyone has any suggestions or input, I would be so grateful to hear it. Thanks so much.

    Bookmark   November 11, 2013 at 6:39PM
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I am sorry that you all have this issue, but then again relived I am not the only one struggling with a child that is so judgmental that it tears out my heart. My son sent me a two and a half page email on why he will not talk to me. He is hiding behind the fact that he dose not approve of the relationship I have with my daughter.who is 24 yrs old. He feels that I should be supporting her, according to him should be paying her part of a mortgage for a house her and he boyfriend bought. I should be paying for her collage,food,medical, etc.. . My daughters boyfriend has been supporting her just fine. She has had a few part time jobs and just recently got a full time job and going to school. And I should be straightening out her boyfriend cause he is going to school to become a teacher. and works as a wielder. My son who is (29 yrs old) is been married for 7 yrs and has been in collage for all but one year when he held a job as a CPA. But has decided to return to school to become a doctor. His wife supports him. They own a home that is currently rented out while he attends medical school in a different state. So he told me that until I meet his expectations he is divorcing me. Well I refuse to explain my actions to my son, nor will I apologize for how I have raised him or his, sister. I owe him no explanations on my relationship with his sister. I will not seek out professional help cause I am mostly happy and have a good life and a great relationship with my daughter. I feel he is the one in need of professional help. Nor will I go back and tell him those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. So maybe one day he will come to realize that he can not manipulate me nor control me. But until then all I can do is love him and tell him that everyday thought his wife, I know she tells him everything I say. All I can do is pray.

    Bookmark   March 12, 2014 at 2:17PM
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My son was worthless, there is no other word to describe him. I don't think he ever did one productive thing in his life. He didn't take care of his babies even after the abusive wife threw a newborn across the room at him because it was crying. Luckily he caught it. He was living on the street, because he was hiding from a warrant for child support. When he became ill a charity set him up in apartment and he died last week alone and unloved. The only sadness I felt was the loss of what should have been between mother and son.

I wondered if he had time to think about his life and what it should have been.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2014 at 3:36PM
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Motherhood is an important part of our lives, but it does not define who we are deep down inside. We are not defined by other people, by their actions, by whether they choose to spend time with us or not.

I do think that many of us have spent so my years looking out for others, sacrificing our time/money for them, that some of us forget to be kind to ourselves.

Being kind means doing things for ourselves. If one is poor, one can manage a little garden, cooking simple dishes and inviting friends, sharing our lives with a rescue puppy (who will be grateful and happy that we are around).

Being kind means that if any person related or not makes us angry or sad, we can choose not to spend time with them.

Every day you wake up, is a new day that gives you opportunity to cherish yourself and be happy.

    Bookmark   April 13, 2014 at 5:26PM
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I'm new to this, not even sure that its still an active forum but want to tell my story. I am dealing with both narcissistic parents and narcissistic daughter. I was born handicapped, 4 fingers on each hand, right arm way shorter than the left and was at a right angle and fingers are mixed up. My head is flattened on the right side, eyes protrude, very small nose, mouth and jaw. My parents NEVER told me why this happened. They told that it "just happened". I went through three pregnancies and was afraid with all three that I would have the same problems with my babies. I never did. When I was 30, my father told me that he made my mother take two "little yellow pills" which they assumed was thalidomyde. They never even attempted to find out what it actually was. This was AFTER my giving birth and worrying about my children. After doing research I found out it was Metholtrexate. A drug frequently used by midwives in the 60's to cause abortions and used now to abort tubal pregnancies as well as immunity problems. I also found out that it decreases folic acid. If my mother had told a doctor what she had done, with folic acid suppliments she could have stopped many of my malformations. She "didn't want the doctor to know what she did". She was never concerned about her baby, she was always concerned about herself. I suspect the reason I did not spontaneously abort was because my mother did not take the required dosage. She wanted to trap my father into marriage. He was engaged to someone else at the time. My parents have done unbelievably mean things to me during my life. Thankfully, up until the time I was 5 and HAD to go to school, I was mainly living with my paternal grandparents. My brother never visited them. I asked my mother why I was always with my grandparents. She said, "because they wanted you". What wasn't said, "my parents did NOT want me". My father told me many times, the first time he saw me in the crib he wanted to smother me with a pillow but his mother stopped him. I was the shrine queen when I was 17, at the Packer game. Instead of praising me, my father called me, "the queen of the cripples"! I was frequently slapped in the face for just disagreeing with my father, and he would just laugh, like it gave him pleasure. I was taught I was NEVER to question my parents in anything, because there would be extreme enjoyment in slapping me in the mouth. When I confronted my mother about it just recently, (I am now 53 years old) I was told, "lots of people have been hit, get over it!" I was a meek girl, having been made fun off all my life by bullies at school, I was in no way a rebellious girl. My mother told me, "I never have to come to your teacher conferences, cause the teachers only have good things to say, its a waste of my time". And she didn't come to my school things. I was a pom pon girl and not once did she come to see me cheer. (when both of my daughters were cheering I was at every game and competition). My parents didn't feel it was necessary for me to receive anesthesia when my teeth were getting drilled with cavities, because of my fetal metholtrexate syndrome my mouth was very small and my teeth were very apt to be cavity filled. I was expected to just endure the pain of a dentist drill drilling my cavity filled teeth. My parents never were without anesthesia, my brother was never without anesthesia, just me, "I was special so I didn't need it"!!! I was relatively an outcase socially so the first boyfriend I got at age 13 I stuck with for two years. At age 15, my family went to Disney World and Daytona Beach, (The first and ONLY vacation w had ever gone on) And was feeling confident because other guys were flirting with me. I was going to break up with my boyfriend. My parents told me, "you'd better not, you are sooo lucky that ANYONE likes you with the way you look!" I married this man that I was so lucky to get. I played by all the rules given by my parents. Do not go to college, do not get a job, have children, stay home with them. I was the most wonderful mother. I was the boy scout and daisy coach and girl scout leader. I got all the kids in the neighborhood always by my house playing in our pool, making haunted houses, doing talent shows, etc. etc. etc. I worked incredibly hard to help my middle daughter with her school work as she had a very hard time. My mother only made art projects in which she received the credit, as she was arty. She made me clothes when she started sewing, all kudo's for her. My parents never offered to take the kids when I was having trouble, like after the births etc. My mother in law did offer though. My parents visited for an hour and then went home. My mother never worked outside the home, she made little crafty dollies, like a little girl who never grew up. SHe never paid a bill, never even put gas in her car. After 20 years of marriage the "perfect man" decided to have an affair with his second cousin and we got a divorce. I had to get a job. My father offered me a job at his insurance office. 10.00 an hour, no vacation, no health care, no sick days. I took it. I began to look for jobs with benefits. I found one that paid 12.00 per hour with vacation, 401K, sick days, health insurance etc. It was 60 miles away. My middle daughter was in her last year of high school. I didn't want to uproot her as she had her friends and her pom pons etc. I asked if my parents could take her in. They said yes, but required me to pay 600.00 a month for her upkeep. I was only getting 222.00 a month child support for her. At my father suggestion I also gave her my 12,000 convertible for 6,000 and I aquired a new loan of 15,000.00, (because thats what parents do???? Not MY PARENTS however) I had also taken a loan for my eldest son for 6,000.00 for my sons car a GT3000, that my father found for him. Even though I was paying 600.00 a month to my parents, my daughter still asked me to pay for all school fees, school lunch, gas for her car, insurance, etc. I also paid for my two daughters to take yearly vacations to Disney World because my mother was dying and we would never know how long she had! (In the year 2000, the same year as my divorce, she got breast cancer) I NEVER went to Disney World though, I couldn't afford it for myself. I also had to stay and take care of my fathers office. NEVER did my parents EVER offer to pay for a vacation to Disney World for me. Even though my father made 160,000.00 a YEAR and I made 20,000.00 a year. But they REQUIRED that I pay for my kids to go with them!!!! I believe, now that my eyes are opened, that my father was just pocketing my money. He felt it was his right as I left and he had to actually PAY a secretary a living wage. At about 2 years after my divorce I also met a nice man, with a son who was the same age as my youngest daughter (I have three children) We are still together today. My parents ALWAYS hated him, and they recently actually said so. I asked why? They said, "I don't know, I just do"!
I got took a course to become a paralegal so I could get a higher wage etc. I did get a job as a paralegal with my state. I got good benefits. All this time I was living about 60 miles away. I was not married because it was just me and my youngest daughter, I was not going to marry until she was out of the house. I would take many trips to see my son and daughter, at least once a week or more. I would have my whole family up for Thanksgiving and Christmas and Easter, even though I only had a small place and my parents had a 250,000 home. Everyone would come late, eat, and then leave without even helping me clean up. I was expected to do this, and with my history I NEVER questioned anything. These things were starting to nag at me little by little though. My middle daughter had an opportunity to move to California for an acting career. I fully supported her and encouraged her. We agreed not to tell her grandparents as they were not in agreement. She was close to me at that time. She appreciated my support. She would call and tell me what was going on in her life. She actually made a national film, but before too long, the bottom fell out and she moved back home. She lived with my parents for a short time, until she couldn't take my father anymore. He was treating her very meanly. (probably because he wasn't getting paid to have her in his home) He often told me that my daughter was "fake". He believed she would say "I love you" But she never felt it, she was just using everyone. When my daughter came back from California I did notice a change in her. She was cold. Most of the time I would call her, she wouldn't answer. I finally just gave up and let her call me. She would sometimes, not often. My mother also wanted my girls into pageants (She did a MRS pageant when she was 38, and she always bragged that she won "best body" as a senior in high school. I looked this up and it was not correct, she just had an incredibly high view of herself) My mother expected me to pay for all the entry fees and costumes etc. I was going so deep in debt, but always wanted to be a "good mother". Since I moved away my parents were constantly telling my girls how I deserted them for a man. No matter what I said, or did, they kept telling my girls that. I kept on supporting my daughters. My middle daughter became a dancer for the Milwaukee Bucks. I drove in to go to many of the games just to watch her. I was very proud. At age 45 my knees were starting to hurt incredibly much. I went to the doctor and he took an x-ray twice. He said "either there is something wrong with my x-ray machine or your knees. He told me that my joints, ALL of them were really worse for wear because of my metholtrexate syndrome. He didn't even know how I could walk because he could see there was almost nothing holding my knees together, nothing under the knee cap. He said that he doesn't even think my knees or other joints could even be rebuilt because they are so empty. I worked for another 5 years. I began to have extreme pain in my joints from arthritis. Finally I obtained permanent disability. I found that cold weather, I was originally from the Midwest and it was very painful there. My youngest was finally on her own, and my fiancee was ready to retire so we bought a home together in South Florida, much better for my joints. In 2007 my mother got a bout of Ovarian Cancer. She was fully cured from breast cancer. (During her breast cancer I would make her dinner, clean her house, take care of her and my father) In 2007 my mom did Chemo and Radiation. She was cancer free for two years. In 2009 it came back. This was the year we bought our Florida home. My fiancee needed 6 months before he could officially retire. I wanted to be down in Florida fixing things up, as it was purchased in lieu of foreclosure, a beautiful home, with an inground pool and hot tub, etc....but it needed work. I needed someone to help me move down with all my stuff, I didn't want to drive all by myself. My father said he would only do it if I bought a new car, he wouldn't trust driving in my 2001 car. So, another 12,000.00 loan. I had been trying to get ahead, but with all the drain on me from my kids, my parents, etc., I was back up to oweing 19,000.00!!!! My parents didn't care, nor did they offer any help! During 2009 to 2012 my mother and daughters were at my Florida home about 5 times a year. The last year, 2012, my mother was staying with me for 8 months while I drove her for all he chemo treatments 3 hours away, EVERY WEEK! I was helping her find new treatments like cyberknife, connecting her with cancer boards on line to help her with anxiety. At this time my middle daughter would call ONLY before holidays and birthdays. The rest of the time it was like I wasn't even alive. She had quit dancing for the Milwaukee Bucks and was going for her doctorate in school psychology in Virginia. She was still having me pay for all flights to come to Florida, go to Disney World (SHE WAS 28 YEARS OLD) I thought I could buy her love. NOPE! When she and her sister were here, I would be ignored. I would pay for all food, flights, gas, everything. They wouldn't even lift a hand to help in cooking or cleaning up. They would sneak into my cupboards and try to find alcohol to take into "their" bedroom, close the door and have their own party. THey would go into my mothers "room" and be talking about me, leaving me out of everything. My daughters would go into my closet and steal clothes they liked and NEVER give them back. I was so sad when they visited. I was trying so hard to be a good mother. I never was judgemental. I was afraid to be. My middle daughter has always been tempermental. At 2 years of age, she got a scratch on her face. She saw herself in a mirror and began screaming. She was always a screaming baby. She could never accept criticism. I was trying to get the closeness that we had before she went to California and got the prodding from her grandparents. My daughters and mother had NO problem criticizing me though. They hated my clothes, (except they stole them) my hair, (too long, to light) My lifestyle, (I drink an occassional beer. My pool was too shallow and small, etc. I felt horrible about myself when I was anywhere near my mother and my daughters. I have so many new friends who do NOT treat me like this. I am an outgoing, friendly caring person. I was near the end of my rope. For the 8 months I was doing all this for my mother, my father never came down once. HE could have, but he didn't want to. Finally he came down in order help her back to the Midwest. The last night they were at my home my fiancee was up in the Midwest visiting his son, (they made sure he wasn't there). They sat me down and told me they hated me always, they hated my fiancee, they didn't like my "lifestyle" (my mother had been after my father every since I moved down here for them to move down here. My mother and father were jealous, after all a person like me isn't supposed to have good things, especially better than theirs) And they said I was a beoch. I was very upset, but still took it and said goodbye to them civilly. I stewed for another month and then confronted my mother on the phone. I said, do you really think I'm a beyoch? My mother said, "Yes, you are a beyoch!" I said, "mom, you have never really supported me my entire life, how can you say those things and support my father after all I have done for you and my girls." She went ballistic and shouted "I have always supported you, everyone else HATES you". (They hate me because of my parents) My mother said, "you are out of the family, I hope you die! I couldn't believe it. I tried to talk to my eldest daughter. I also told her that I found out I HAD BREAST CANCER! She said, "Mom, I don't care, go ahead and die. I was just using you to see my grandma and my sister." I tried to reason with all of them and ask them why they thought all of these things were okay to do to me all my life. I have been cut off from my entire family. Even my aunt (mothers sister) who I had in my home many times even though she is a raging drunk who starts drinking as soon as she wakes up, has cut me off! My mother was getting next to death, and for me, I called her and kind of made ammends. She wanted to fight and I said, we both said mean things, lets just be friends, no deep talk, just associate as if we are neighbors. I talked to her right before she died. I went to her funeral. My middle daughter ignored me. My son is fine with me. My youngest is under the thumb of her sister. She is fine if her sister is not around. I found out that my middle daughter is getting married. She tried to hide it from me, but I am a paralegal. I also called her at the time I called my daughter and offered to just be her mother, not a friend, not someone to use. I took responsibility for that. I said, "its my problem that I let you use me." I guess it is. I have done alot of soul searching. I have gone through cancer, and my entire family knows about it, they deny that I have it. ?????? I guess it makes them feel better. I will never speak with my father again. I know he blames me for having to get married somehow. My parents are both narcissists and my daughter is also a narcissist. I do not deserve this! I was the best mother and I still am! I rushed to my middle daughters aide every time she got a new place, scrubbing on my hands and knees so she had a nice place. She graduated college, I came up from Florida and catered the entire party for her. I have done for her all my life and would if I could, but I know she will never LOVE me. She can't, its her "handicap". She's not evil I guess, just sick!

    Bookmark   April 30, 2014 at 11:43PM
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I read your post and it looks like no one saw it. I wonder if you will even receive this reply. What happened to you is beyond .. beyond. I believe both of your parents are sociopaths and I am so sorry that there are "beings" who live amidst us who are like this. I hope you have no further contact with any of them and I hope you are getting therapy to deal with all of the pain. Yes, a good way to look at it that is less painful to us is to think of them as very very sick. Which they are!
There seems no way for you to contact me. Please know that you are in my prayers and that I hope that you can free yourself of these demons and of these memories.
Thank God that you did not turn out like they did. I would rather live in all my pain rather than for even one day be a person with no concscience.
I am so very very sorry. I know hell. I have been there and back ... well never back really. So I do get it.
Write back. I will look for your response if you wish to do so.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2014 at 12:24PM
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To Kate, thank you for your reply! It looks as though this forum isn't really active anymore. Since I wrote last I tried to contact my youngest daughter for help. I had a biopsy to check for uterine cancer because of post menopausal bleeding and pain. It came back clear, but I still wish an hysterectomy just cause of my moms problems etc. I asked my daughter if she could help me during recuperation, I would pay her fights, expenses, etc. she said , no, she has to work, last time she was off was thanksgiving and her gams funeral! BTW, thanksgiving was at my fathers house where all were invited, includingy ex-husband, but not me! Basically she can go anywhere anytime except to help me! I'm taboo! My middle daughter has fully indoctrinated my youngest! There is nothing I can do! But, maybe it's for the best! With my health and financial problems, they are actually doing me a favor. By the way my email is

    Bookmark   May 25, 2014 at 3:53PM
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I'm so sorry.

One thing I've learned is that nobody is "the only one" to whom *anything* has happened.

It's all an old old story, as old as the earth, I guess.

& the way the story goes is that the next generation becomes either the next victims of the abuser or the next abusers of the victim.

Some people are just mean devils, narcissists, sociopaths, people who delight in tormenting their 'nearest & dearest'.

The only thing you can do is get away from them.

Years ago, I terminated contact with my mother & my brothers, & I feel just fine.

I wish you the best.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2014 at 8:25PM
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We have had to break away from my son because of his odd behaviour. He is an alcoholic (37 years old) and we think he must be on drugs as well. He and his wife have split many times but this last time was 2 years ago and I think now she will stay away from him. They have 3 children ranging in age- 13, 7 and 5 years old. He always has taken them every second weekend and sometimes more often. He has always paid support until the last couple of months. He is in construction and has had a fairly steady job except for a few weeks here and there. He has not paid rent in 9 months, his hydro was cut off and he has a huge gas bill. The place he lived in was a dump (he did not take care of it) and the fellow who shared the place was just as bad. My son never has any money. He lost shares in 2 rental houses as he went bankrupt. He owes everyone money. He has come to the cottage for years every second weekend with the kids and is good with them during the day but a night gets drunk and does not get up in the morning. so my daughter and I take over to get their breakfast etc. Usually he will sit by the fire with his 13 year old son until at least midnight and then his son would go to bed and he would stay there (half asleep) until 1 or 1:30 come in, eat whatever he could find and leave a mess all over. Food on a plate, food dripping down the cupboards and on the floor. It is disgusting. We took him in about 2 months ago and said he could stay for a couple of months as he was going to AA. He stopped going to meetings right after that. We gave him jobs to do and paid him so that he had money. ($20.00 per hour...which I think is good money).Anyway he got a job up north (close to our cottage) and stayed there for about 1 week, then brought the kids up for the weekend. Got drunk, came in at 1:45 AM and woke my husband up making a noise in the kitchen. The next morning we told him he is no longer welcome to come to the cottage or at our home. He left all kinds of belongings at his old house and his landlord was good enough to have us come and go through some of it. We took some things that we felt were important to the kids. His clothes and other belongings are here. I emailed him that they were cleaning out his house. We have not heard from him and I understand that but he has not been in touch with his kids. His wife told him he could not have them if he is using. He told my daughter, his wife and his step-sister that he is on Meth. I am just so upset, I cry half the time when I am alone. My heart is broken and I am so embarrassed to have raised such a person. I feel so bad for his kids,,,,they miss him. How do you ever get over this?

    Bookmark   June 17, 2014 at 1:59PM
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I'm so sorry.

I don't think anybody ever 'gets over it'.

You just blow your nose & make sure the kids have groceries, a roof over their heads, shoes, clean clothes, & clean sheets on the bed.

Make sure that they get to school, & that someone helps them with their homework when they need/want it, & that they know that you not only love them but like them & want to know that they're busy & happy.

Listen to them.

It has to be done anyway, & a bonus is that it keeps your hands & your mind busy, & it makes you feel good.

I wish you the best.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2014 at 1:52PM
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We are all in the same boat. And to the people who call US narcissists. The definition of a narcissist is love of self. If we were narcissists, by defination, we wouldn't even care about estrangement. The fact that we do care, shows a deep emotional connection to someone other than ourselves. This is why it hurts so much. We have hearts, we have feelings, they do not. There is no pain, no missing us, no caring. No real hearts, no real love. And I believe no real happiness for them either. Whatever caused this, heredity, some mixup in the birthing process, divorce, whatever, it is in their own minds. Another thing I have found is that, a parent can apologize over and over, and it doesn't matter, all they think about is them, and if you ever question, you are out of their lives. Its not normal, its a sickness. Just like my handicap. I know they can't help it, but it hurts just the same.

1 Like    Bookmark   July 20, 2014 at 8:28PM
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I just gave up trying after 45 years! Thank God.

1 Like    Bookmark   July 22, 2014 at 4:07PM
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I am so sad but comforted in seeing that I am not alone. My adult daughters have decided that I am to be exiled from their lives. I miss my grandchildren terribly. I was never a perfect mom far from it. My daughters have great jobs and are successful. I used to work in a nightclub till 3am five nights a week. I know I could not attend school recitals and programs. With no child support I did what at the time I thought was right. When my father died they distanced them selves from me. I am not allowed to see them or my grandchildren and it hurts terribly.. I have suffered from depression and anxiety most of my adult life and realize mistakes I have made. Saw a therapist for 2 yrs or so nice person but cannot say it helped.

    Bookmark   September 4, 2014 at 9:59PM
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I am thankful for this forum to go to, so that I don't feel alone. I am going through a terrible time right now, and my both adult children are treating me like dirt. Their Father has just been diagnosed with dementia and is in stage 3 kidney disease. He has a badly infected foot and leg, and needs all the love he can get. He had to be transferrred to a Nursing Home an hour from me (the only Medicaid-Pending bed available), which causes me a great deal of stress. I can't be there every day, due to the road closing from rain & flooding (Texas) and they told me the other day I din't CARE about their Father!! OMG! I was in tears on the phone with my Son, who lives in Nebraska, and didn't even bother to call his Dad this year on Father's Day! He had no right to lash out at me, when he isn't here to see how much I do and care for his Dad. I have no partner to lean on, so it is very, very hard to keep composed and remain strong. I was in the hospital myself during this whole ordeal, and my Daughter told me "you just wanted attention!". It is so unbearable at times, the only reason I go on is for my sweet loving husband of 50 years. My Faith in God is what has brought me this far.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2014 at 3:41PM
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I'm so sorry.

"You just wanted attention" seems to be the venomous accusation people make when you're getting the attention that they feel like they're entitled to!

My mother (the crazy person/narcissist/sociopath/child beater) used to blow off my younger brother's bawling fits of despair the same way.

If no one was there, she'd point her finger at him & narrow her eyes & say, "Stop that crying or I'll give you something to cry about!"

If someone *was* there, & they were concerned about his obvious distress, she'd frown & shake her head & say, "He just wants *attention*!"

Don't let it get you down;
take care of your husband & be sure the legalities are in order;
when family members treat you badly & leave you to do all the hard work, they always seem to turn up with their hands out.

& change the locks on your doors;
my best friend's mother returned from her husband's funeral to find that her son (my friend's brother) had come into the house during the funeral & stripped it of everything valuable.

He said he knew Dad wanted him to have it.

Never mind that the will left it to Mom or that it was community property & he took Mom's half along with Dad's.

    Bookmark   September 20, 2014 at 7:24PM
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Thank You for understanding what I am going through. It still hurts, even though I know my kids are the ones who need help, not me. My Son called me "evil" in an e-mail the other day, and told me to get some psych help and maybe God would forgive me. For What? Taking care of his Dad the best way I know how? I eat, sleep, and breath about my darling husband, and it kills me to be an hour away when anything happens. The other evening I got a call that they found him on the floor, and thought he was sleepwalking. I went in the next morning, and demanded they take x-rays of his chest where he was bruised. No cracked ribs, but very sore. He fell - why didn't they admit it? If I didn't keep constant watch over his care, no telling what would happen to him. Anyhow, I am here doing the best I can, and if that isn't good enough for my adult kids who act like schoolchildren, they can go to ----. I can't take any more abuse.

1 Like    Bookmark   September 22, 2014 at 12:42AM
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Calling someone 'evil' & bringing God in to do their dirty work are popular too!

Take care of your husband, forget about the kids, & protect yourself.

I wish you the best.

1 Like    Bookmark   September 22, 2014 at 9:22AM
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i have 4 kids all estranged. in their words "i was a horible father because i asked them to help.
having spent my las few years,working at a juvenile detention facility i learned a lot.
this generation was intentionaly taught not by our will but by mandate from our government, to not be taught respect and fear. spanking worked from the beninning of time we were not allowed to do that. pulling their load around home and inforcing it was not allowed.
these kids will be living in anorchy. maybe they will seethe light, naybe they won't

    Bookmark   October 5, 2014 at 4:55PM
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so it's the government's fault that kids become estranged from their parents, or it's the government's fault that kids end up in juvenile detention?

& it's the government's fault because the government won't let you hit your kids?

I wish to he!! the government, or somebody, anybody, had had the power to stop my mother from hitting us.

'not be taught respect and fear. spanking worked from the beninning of time'

Yes, fear does work, & hitting does reinforce fear, but only for the time the assailant has the power.

I'm not surprised your children are all estranged from you, but I worry about those kids in the facility at which you work.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2014 at 11:03PM
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I can't tell if anyone is still reading/posting on this thread, but I am so confused about how I got where I am now---estranged from all three of my adult children. I know it started with the oldest and youngest getting mad at me for maintaining contact with my middle son who is a chronic alcoholic. Eventually, I became just as angry with them for refusing to let him know that he was still loved as their brother. He never asked anything from them except to keep caring about him even as he became homeless and came close to dying many times. Long story short, he got a year's sobriety under his belt and asked to come live with me until he could get a job and get back on his feet. He's been here two weeks and sleeps during the day and talks to his girlfriend on the phone all night. This morning, I told him he was not holding up his end of our agreement and he went off on me blaming me for his entire life and using language toward me that I've never heard from him before. I told him I had made my home safe after being married to his violent when drunk dad (deceased) and I wasn't going to be treated like that in my home again. So here I am with a son in my home being verbally and emotionally abusive and with no money or car with which to leave. I know I did my very best raising my kids as a single mom but know I must have made mistakes along the way. I also know I did nothing to deserve the way they have disrespected me in the last few years. I feel sick tonight and just want them to all to go away and stay away so I can find the strength to go on. I survived a lot in my lifetime with God's help, but I feel like He has deserted me.

    Bookmark   November 6, 2014 at 10:54PM
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Sandi, I'm so sorry.

Please get some guidance & support, maybe from al-anon.

Alcoholism is a disease, but it's *more* than a disease;
it sucks whole families, whole generations of families, into its whirlpool, spinning them into a nightmare of anger, guilt, co-dependence, abuse, & misery.

A police detective neighbor, who had worked on alcohol & narcotics cases his whole career (doesn't *that* sound like a fun job???), once told me that, no matter who a person is, no matter what their background, intelligence, religion, income, no matter who they are before alcohol enters the picture, once they're addicted, they're all the same person, & that person *is* the addiction*.

That person will lie, cheat, & steal (if he hasn't started stealing from you yet, he will; lock up your valuables, your checkbook, & your credit & debit cards, & have all your mail sent to a post office box).

He'll manipulate, intimidate, threaten, punch, kick...
that person will do anything to keep the addiction fed.

Doing what you're doing for your son won't help him, it'll ensure that your life will be unendingly miserable, & it'll endanger you.

The abuse will not stay at the verbal & emotional;
it'll escalate to physical threats & then to 'pushing' & shoving & then to hitting.

Please please take care of yourself.

I wish you the best.

    Bookmark   November 7, 2014 at 12:09AM
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"after being married to his violent when drunk dad (deceased)"

Having grown up in a house with an alcoholic (and violent) father, it seems to me that your children are angry with you for not protecting them when they were growing up. Then, when you decided to harbor someone that they felt was following in the same footsteps as their Dad, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

As far as the son that lives with you, but is verbally abusing you, the lack of car and job shouldn't deter you from booting him out. Just take him to the bus station or drive him to the nearest shelter. It's really the best thing for him. Be sure to change your locks, too.

1 Like    Bookmark   November 7, 2014 at 10:05AM
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I have a question, that I'm sure what the answer will be, but I need some input from people who are going through the same thing that I am. I have a verbally abusive daughter who will be turning 37 in a few months. For my birthday, she put my present in a gift bag, crammed it into a postal envelope and mailed it to me. We live approximately 10 miles from each other. Her birthday is coming up as I said, so, what should I do? The same thing that she did? She did not call me on your birthday, however, she sent me an email later in the evening stating that she hoped I had had a good day. My daughter has been verbally abusive to me ever since i divorced her father when she was 8 yrs old. I did not realize what she said to me or the lack of, was verbal abuse at the time until I have read some of your posts. She treats me similar to the way that your abusive adult children treat you. She never calls me unless it's something that she needs. What should I do about the birthday?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2015 at 8:00AM
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Mail her a present, approximate same value/style as what she sent you. Then email a "Happy birthday". Give no more than what you got. If you do less, she'll be taking note. If you do more, you're just wasting your energy. Let her set the tone, and then get on with living your own life.

1 Like    Bookmark   February 26, 2015 at 10:46AM
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Besides suhipup's advice, I think you'd find value in seeking a therapist's advice on how to better protect yourself from your daughter's abuse. He/she can offer words of wisdom and/or tools to use to "change the dance" you've been in with your daughter for the last 29 years. At the minimum, you'll feel less victimized and, who knows, maybe your changes will cause your daughter to become more introspective about her (unfair) attitude about you.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2015 at 10:51AM
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