Paint Recipes

CEFreemanFebruary 16, 2014

Hi all!

I was reading here about paint matching.
I've determined when I choose a color, I'll go to the place that actually sells it and get the same brand, not a match of something else.

Here's my question. Say, Home Depot. Does their computer setup only have, say, Behr codes? Or do they have all the codes for all the brands they sell?

So far, in the myriad of paint samples I have, it's not BM or SW colors that are speaking to me. I guess this means I'll not have BM (for quality of paint) match someone else's, either.

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First off, there's only about 5 companies that make paint in the US. Paint is sold by marketing.

Secondly, virtually all of the paint now-a-days is a quality product.

The paint manufacturer has specific tint bases for mixing their colors.

So you should stick to the paint manufacturer for the particular color.

Otherwise your color may be too gray, blue, yellow, etc.

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 12:00PM
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I recently bought some Behr paint from Home Depot and it was so sticky that it completely ruined an expensive brush, even though the paint job only took about 10 minutes. The paint stuck like glue to the bristles and would NOT come off. I took it and the brush back to the store and the guy said, "You have to wash it out with warm soapy water," like I didn't already know that!! Maybe I got a bad can, but I will never buy that paint again! (they did refund my money for the paint and gave me a new brush)

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 3:34PM
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Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

quote " Secondly, virtually all of the paint now-a-days is a quality product. "

Boy, would I argue that statement

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 5:53PM
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NOT trying to be "smart" here (OR a Behr fan lol!!), but a customer was irked because her paint STUCK very well?!?!?

Acrylic resin & colorant technology has come a long way...even in the last 5 years! Paints dry faster than ever now, & the "stick-factor" is maybe getting TOO good?!?! Obviously, the quick dry-times aren't popular with everyone either....


    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 9:47PM
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Haha, faron ... I didn't think of it that way! I was just mad about ruining a brand new expensive brush. I'd never seen a paint do that before, so I figured it was either crappy paint or old paint.

When the label says "soap and water cleanup," I take that to mean that I will actually be able to clean up my supplies rather than throwing them in the trash. I just finished another project using both Aura and Regal Select and while they do dry super fast, the brushes cleaned up very well.

    Bookmark   February 18, 2014 at 10:11PM
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Home Depot's computer has the formulas for the major brands, although it is lacking some of thr neweer colors like SW's HGTV line. There's Ben Moore, Sherwin Williams, Valspar, Azko Nobel, PPG, Devoe, etc. Sometimes the colors aren't exact though because of the color of the Behr and glodden bases. Sometimes the Glidden bases are a little yellow so the colors might come out that way IMO...

    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 10:14AM
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One things I've told our customers over the years may sound weird-

B4 you first use a brush, work some liquid fabric-softener thru the bristles. Use a stiff brush to work it into the area near the band. Rinse out well and dry.

This enables easier cleaning the next time!
When cleaning though, use VERY warm water, combined with Dawn AND fabric-softener. This way, you're cleaning AND treating your brush for the next job!


    Bookmark   February 19, 2014 at 7:22PM
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Christopher Nelson Wallcovering and Painting

quote"Rinse out well and dry."
or leave it damp if you are using it soon

quote"When cleaning though, use VERY warm water, combined with Dawn AND fabric-softener"


    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 3:28AM
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That's interesting, faron. I'll pick up some fabric softener.
Did you know fabric softener makes your towels less absorbent over time? another thread...

Now, although I had always understood some of the bigger stores actually had the paint recipes of other brands in their systems, I've had them color match instead. Which of course is a mistake. Even say, Martha Stewart at Lowes? HD? Whatever. But if they're carrying that paint and it should be in their machine, why color (mis) match?

Years ago, I had understood there was one paint making machine manufacturer, which is why they all had each others' recipes. I guess that's where my head was.

To be on the safe side, I'll be buying the gallons where the paint swatches came from. But I have NO faith in color matching!

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 10:59AM
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I've seen some matches that are dead on, and a few that are completely the wrong undertone. Mostly customers seem happy because they come in with the color number or name, not the actual color card. Or they're matching to existing color matched paint, so they dont notice a difference. My suggestion would be to buy the sample pot of paint first before committing to a gallon.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 12:17PM
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This MAY surprise some of you...

We have MUCH better luck scanning the actual sample-chip!!!
We (like many other paint-stores) have "electronic" competitor-fandecks in our tinting-program software...

They're actually "add-on" program-modules...IF A STORE BUYS THAT MODULE!! They're not cheap either!!

BUT...all these are, are just SCANS THEMSELVES of many different fan-decks, done at a paint-factory...OR...just hired-out to a firm who scans them, & uses software keyed to "Company X's" colorant-database values. These "Matches" are then saved on disc, & mailed to the stores who bought them through their particular Paint-tinting software vendor. Datacolor, Colorite, Fluid-Management, & CPS-Color are some of the main companies.

There's NO WAY of knowing if the scan-package a paint-retailer buys will be a good match or not.

I prefer to do my own sample-scan, back-off some on key colorants, & tweak from there...

There's NO such thing as perfect, but I'm damn close...


    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 4:03PM
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Fluffieebiskits1: Ya' think? That's kinda the point of this conversation! :)

Faron: You mean they're not putting the color formulas (like on a can -- or sample) into these computer modules? That seems not worth the time.

I always purchase paint against the sample I've tested, because of the nuances at different times of the day. One of my troubles/fears is that a match is going to have overtones such as blue or pink that I truly dislike.

I've been trying to get this gray/green/sage color for my kitchen cabinets. I have the Duron codes. In bright sunlight outside, it's a gorgeous grayed green. In the kitchen's indirect light, it's of course a little different, but I still eat up the color. In light coming through the windows, I'd also consider direct light, it turns as blue as turquoise. If I've tried one, I've tried 14 different paint colors and I cannot figure in what direction to go, to kill the blue. If I can get it, I'm afraid of a color match slipping into this blue area again.

Now, I'm working on griege, since my sagey/gray/green isn't working. Griege is coming out pink.

How would you handle such an issue?
I repainted my cabinets 2ce, before I knew about samples, common paint sense, and that daylight isn't my friend.

Again, you far away? I'm in the DC area....

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 8:11PM
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Couple further points here:

* Yes- formulas are entered into the "formula-book software" that reflect the purchasing stores colorant setup.
* Again- All these formulas/matches are just someones SCAN-results.
* Yes- I can look up up hundreds of BM-formulas...BUT...all I'm REALLY doing is looking up the software-vendors SCAN of that color...which is translated into what that particular scanners software THINKS will generate a close match.
* As is maybe obvious, everyone should know that EVERY paint company has different colorants.
* Because of that obvious difference, an EXACT match of "Color X" is literally impossible.
* C2 paint uses colorants that nobody else has...some are "High-strength" versions. People have come back to our store many times with "matches" done at other stores....Oh my! Usually they're not too good....
* Many paint-co's./stores now are having to change to Low/NO-VOC colorants. This requires a complete redo of all formula-databases.
* The Glycol-based colorants in use for 30+ years are now nearly irrelevant! A paint you bought 5 years ago WILL NOT BE the exact same look as its new version...

I could ramble on for PAGES here, but many peoples eyes would glaze over...

Yep- I'm way up in the "Land of the Ice & Snow" ("The Immigrant Song", Led-Zeppelin!), Fargo, ND!


    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 8:50PM
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I hear you singing...!
I'm actually very interested in this. I like to know how things are done.

Either way, I got this blue problem....

    Bookmark   February 20, 2014 at 9:36PM
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Lori A. Sawaya

I'd say in the last two to three years I've noticed color math (also known as colorimetrics and colorimetry) has been growing its reach.

The scanning process that Faron refers to is done to get CIELAB coordinates. The algorithms, and apps and other applications using these numbers is more commonplace now than I've ever seen it in 20 some years. And he's right, garbage in equals garbage out. So who scanned the colors and how they scanned them matters.

Several paint manufacturers provide their data for free download. Some of them are amazingly accurate while others miss the mark significantly.

From a civilian point of view, and have been around for a while. Altho is no longer free. Both colorcharts and easyrgb are transparent about how they built their data. But other similar websites have been cropping up -- many simply go to manufacturer's websites and copy the hex codes and build their database from there. And you have to beware of these random online color matching sites. Because copying hex codes is NOT the same as building a database from either vetted data provided by the manufacturer or scanning colors via a controlled method.

Certainly not the quality data that businesses purchase from vendors like Faron mentioned.

The spectrophotometers, methods and standards for scanning color is more defined and focused now too. Colorimetry has always been a very careful science but advancements in technology has has made it more accessible. CIELAB used to be somewhat exclusive to graphic and textile designers, color management gurus and the like.

Definitely progress is being made. One of my favorite Paint Color apps is Paint Pro from Figure 8, LLC. It's on iTunes. I know their data is a quality combo of vetted manufacturer data and their own scans.

Use Paint Pro app in combination with a device from Variable called NODE/Chroma and it's pretty darn close to what can be done in a paint store. Spring 2014 the app will even include full spectrum colors from Ellen Kennon.

But like I always say, you cannot color by numbers alone. It was Billmeyer who said "Always remember that nobody accepts or rejects color because of numbers - it's the way it looks that counts."

The advancements in how to acquire color data and apply it are fabulous and do indeed streamline color choosing and matches processes. But at the helm, as well as the end, of all the clever math and hand-dandy devices you need a professional paint recipe wrangler like Faron to bring it all together and make it real in terms of an actual can of paint.

Here is a link that might be useful: Paint Pro and NODE/Chroma

This post was edited by funcolors on Sat, Feb 22, 14 at 3:28

    Bookmark   February 22, 2014 at 3:25AM
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