Would this be enough to fix the poorly laid out kitchen?

olivesmomFebruary 11, 2013

It's unanimous that the kitchen I posted has a horribly dysfunctional layout. We are still debating on the house and plan to go back before the weekend to look at it more closely, get measurements, try the garage, etc. I'm still not sure if my husband would entertain the idea of fixing the kitchen, maybe if I had a realistic idea of how much it would be.

Here are the photos for reference. Keep in mind there is another entrance to the kitchen that isn't shown. The doorway is next to the wall oven, across from the refridgerator.

Possible changes to improve layout:

- Move the cooktop to the opposite wall.
- Swap the cabinets above the cooktop with the ones in the new cooktop location
- Install new hood underneath upper cabinets that vents outside
- Move the dishwasher to the cooktop's old location

Doing all of that will require:
- One new lower cabinet for the old dishwasher spot
- New granite countertop on old cooktop side
- Redoing at least some of the backsplash (old cooktop had design over it)
- New plumbing for gas at cooktop's new location (exterior wall, basement below)

Assuming I reused all the existing appliances except for the new hood and was able to find matches for the cabinet, granite and backsplash, any idea how much it might cost to move things around?

Actually, looking at the lowers, it appears that I will really have to move them around to accommodate moving the cooktop. Not sure how well it will work. I do not want to change the overall layout of the lowers as I'm worried about the floor...don't want to have to mess with patching or refinishing any part of the floors.

Ugh, I'm thinking this is going to be more complicated than swapping a few things around.

Here is a link that might be useful: Original kitchen thread

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I don't understand why you started a new thread for this ? I suggest to copy the above post into the original thread where you already have followers. Then edit your above post to delete everything except the link to the original thread.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 1:10PM
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Looks like you could vent the cooktop to the outside if you move it to that wall. Hope you can eventually figure out a good solution for you. Looked at your other photos and I can see that there are lots of things to love about the house.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 1:40PM
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I think your plan sounds good. Can you leave the backsplash? I can't see it due too the ads covering half your photos.

Do you have to get new granite on the current cooktop side? Roulie (sp?) just removed a cooktop and is considing different options.

This post was edited by debrak_2008 on Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 19:36

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 1:47PM
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I didn't comment on the other post, but that was what I was thinking would fix it. Keep in mind that you don't need to get granite - you could get a nice coordinating Formica. They are much better than they used to be, and that might save you some $$. I've even seen Formica with undermount sinks now. Look at the 180FX formica.

Below is a Gardenweb link about Formica with rangetops.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gas top and formica

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 1:52PM
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I think to answer, we'd need to know the cabinet sizes on both runs. Also, are the cabinets installed on top of the floor? Looks like they aren't. Is the basement below unfinished?

Before going any further in your thinking, are 3 bedrooms enough for you?

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 2:51PM
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With the changes you list, the layout seems good to me, especially if grazers can get to the refrige without going through your cooking zone. (The other entrance you mentioned takes care of that?)

I don't know about relative costs of things, but it might be cheaper and/or less disruptive to put a new induction cooktop on the long run (probably would have to have a beefy electrical hookup added), rather than moving the gas cooktop and running gas lines.

From the pics you posted, I really like this house a lot, except for the current kitchen layout.

This post was edited by fouramblues on Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 16:21

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 2:56PM
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Another alternative is to leave the cooktop where it is. Shrink the sink by changing to a smaller prep sink as far from the range as possible, then fill the rest of the existing sink cutout with a custom butcher block cutting board. Move the cleanup sink and dishwasher to the opposite wall; you'll have to raise or remove a couple of the cabs above the new sink.

This setup protects the cooking zone better than a cooktop on the far wall. Check relative costs for each idea.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 3:39PM
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There are a lot of ifs in your list and it may not be as easy as it seems to match and move things. Someone needs to look at those cabinets and determine whether they can be easily moved. They look like they were built and installed in such a way that they should, but even then the installation details could make it more difficult. On the favorable side, you are talking about moving interior cabinets, so you don't have finished sides to worry about -- if they are the right sizes to swap out.

Have someone look at the space and see if you could simply remove the upper where you would put a hood (would require finishing the sides unless you have a flush fit.with the sides of the hood covering the unfinished cabinet sides). Look at whether you could install a cooktop in the center of the long run without changing the base cabinets. You might be able to modify the drawer and then consider pullouts below for your pots.

Have you tried standing in that space and trying to access the DW? It does look tight, but does it work? Would DW drawers be any better? Assuming as we probably all are that the answers are no, then do you have enough cabinet space to turn that existing DW space into an unexpected plus -- a wine fridge, beverage fridge, fridge drawers? Any of those could face the breakfast room and help keep traffic out of your kitchen while you are cooking -- something that will be more important if you put the cooktop in the middle of that path.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 6:22PM
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I know you are looking for a budget friendly solution especially since it is a relatively new kitchen and I'm sure you have other projects that come with a new home purchase. So..how about leaving the cooktop where it is and adding a cleanup sink to the opposite counter and moving the dishwasher over too? It would not be ideal but certainly more functionable and would eliminate the need to move gas lines and venting, adding granite or new backsplashes.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 6:40PM
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I'm a total non expert here but I would second Marcolo's suggestion about switching the main sink to a prep sink, and moving the cleanup functions to the other side. I have a small galley kitchen that sees a ton of traffic (with a far worse layout than your possible new home, if that makes you feel any better). I've been experimenting with the idea of putting an induction cooktop on the opposite side from the sink. (my range conveniently died, so I've been using an induction burner until I can figure out how to reconfigure the kitchen.) it drives me nuts to have to pivot across a busy pathway to dump a pot of hot pasta water, etc. and my galley is narrow. If you spend the money to change things, you don't want to have to beware of your kids running to grab something from the fridge every time you are trying to move from the sink to the cooktop or vice versa.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 7:21PM
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I know why this is a new thread.
She didn't get the answers she was looking for.
No one was going to say, "Yes! It's great! You can live in this kitchen without investing any money! Buy it because it's OPEN!"

Sooo. Now Dh is willing to invest in changes to make it functional?
It's just not a very good kitchen. I'm willing to bet to get it as functional (no matter how many butts -- like THAT made any difference!) you'll spend $1000s more than the house might be worth.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 7:42PM
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I need to go back and measure, but what do you think about replacing the sink with the kohler stages 33? The cutting board would expand my prep area and it would be extremely convenient as far as chop and drop.

If it would fit and the stages is larger than the current sink, can the sink opening be recut on site?

Could this possibly work?

Oh, and I made a new thread because the original was had over thrity responses and I didn't think many people would read a new question I posted thirty responses deep. Besides,the original post was asking how bad the kitchen was. Here I acknowledge the layout is terrible and I'm asking how to fix it. I don't know why anyone feels the need to give me a hard time over two flipping posts. It's not like I'm clogging up the kitchen forum on a regular basis, give me a break.

This post was edited by olivesmom on Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 19:58

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 7:52PM
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I have a similar layout and I don't have any problem with it. I love having the sink near the cooktop. I see that in your space there isn't much room between the sink and the cooktop but still could work out fine. I use that space all the time. I go from rinsing veggies, to chopping to putting on the stove moving straight along the countertop run. I do have an island right behind me but you could put one there that's moveable. There are some examples on the Boos wood site.

Looks fine to me, I could see moving the dishwasher to the other side of the sink or moving the sink to where the peninsula is. If none of that is possible I don't really think it's bad myself. That area to the left of my sink is where I work all the time. I have a lot of space there like you do to the left side of your sink. I have never felt my space was hard to work in. In fact I enjoy being in my kitchen. I think once you got it cleaned up and your pretty things in place it would be less of a problem than it may appear. I might also look at dishwasher drawers or something like that rather than tearing out granite etc. You can get used to anything and make it work for you making little adjustments. If the house is a fabulous deal I wouldn't let that kitchen layout deter me. Good luck! : ))

This post was edited by gr8day on Mon, Feb 11, 13 at 20:13

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 8:04PM
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And CEFreeman: I still don't know what the heck you are taking about with regard to the kitchen being open. The kitchen is more closed off, which is why I like it. But whatever, that's not the point.

My husband has not agreed to spend any money to fix it. I havent brought it up to him yet, other than pointing out that the layout is very good. Before i even broach the subject with him I would like to get a rough idea of what it might be involved.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 8:07PM
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The Stages is a good idea but it requires a fairly monumental sink cabinet.

This is the problem with flip kitchens--they're awful but no one really wants to spend the money to change them because they're brand new.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 8:59PM
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Finger crossed that the sink cabinet is 36".

My current el cheapo double bowl SS sink (14" each basin, 33" total, drop-in) is in a 36" cabinet. I have a hard time believing the sink in this house is smaller, but it looks small. Maybe due to the fact that it is under mounted?

Please be a 36" cabinet, please!

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 9:07PM
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Gr8 day you appear to have close to 30" edge to edge from sink to cooktop, more probably.

The kitchen in question has about 9" it looks like. That's a huge difference.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 9:19PM
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Gr8 day you appear to have close to 30" edge to edge from sink to cooktop, more probably.

The kitchen in question has about 9" it looks like. That's a huge difference.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 9:20PM
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Olivesmom it looks like you could potentially move the DW into the space of the 3 drawer unit if it has the correct size. Then in the double cabinet next to it remove the drawers, affix the drawer fronts and put a sink there and remove the cabinet above. If the floor joists run across from one side of the cabinets to the other it won't be too bad to move the plumbing.

Hopefully you could salvage some of the granite on the other side and just seam a piece in. Having a small prep sink there like others suggested would help.

Worst case you could just move the cooktop and do an induction, but you still have the awkward dw placement then.

Is the seller a builder? If so you could specify you want this as part of the offer.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2013 at 10:24PM
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Normally I would not suggest this but even if your cabinet is smaller than the sink since it's in a curve there will be some extra space that you could fit that sink in there.

In the photo above of my kitchen it calls for a 36 inch cabinet to accommodate the sink but my cabinet is only 33 so the flange outside of the sink bowl goes over the sides of cabinets on the inside. Not visible on the outside. Because your sink is stainless I have no problem with suggesting it but my sink is cast iron and we have a crack at the drain and it has to be removed and so it's a huge expensive PITA. If it were stainless and didn't weigh 126 pounds it would not be the fiasco that it is presenting to be. So far I am doing nothing, : /

    Bookmark   February 12, 2013 at 11:58AM
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