Solution for Kitchen dilema

SuneelFebruary 9, 2013

Spent countless hours to have a better kitchen plan from what the builder is providing. Need your help with ideas

Wants >>
1) larger kitchen with space and function
2) Utility area with washer/dryer and a cloths hang and dry area.

Constraints >>
a) Do not need "S.Room" or "S.toilet"; "S" stands for Servant.
b) Only area in the highlighted (with Green line) area can be changed; Wall between Kitchen and utility cannot be broken. Same is true for the wall between kitchen and study.

- Suneel

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reverse things: put a formal/mirrored/chandeliered enclosed dining room where kitchen is now. Use the area of utility and servant's zones for what you wish-separate from dining room with arched/decorative doors you can close when doing formal dining.....or swing open when day to day functions mean you want to access that zone for "?laundry? back up freezers? or whatever.Use study and little "dress" room and current dining spot for larger better kitchen/living zone/dinette or island. Is that bath up there part of a master suite so you can change the door to a right side wall.You already have a powder room by the foyer. I'm thinking there is a big master suite off to the upper right position-change some passage over dressing room elsewhere?? More should be told of the overall footprint/details of the home. I'm just taking a superficial stab at it.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 11:55AM
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Thanks Herbflavor. your suggestion of moving the kitchen to study gets complicated in my view.. or may be i am not getting your freequency :). Please see the new picture with the rest of the floorplan. What you saw in the previous picture is a bath for guest bedroom.

I realize that Servent toilet's area is good for washer/dryer and keep the servant room for "Store cum cloths folding area". This way current utility area can be free of the above. utility area can be used for drying cloths, some plants etc.

Any other ideas ... please.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 6:46PM
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Although you don't wish to remove the red walls, several interior walls are coming down so I'm hoping you aren't restricted in some way.
And in that spirit the wall between the study and kitchen, utility and kitchen and at least half of the wall to the right of the powder room would be my choice for removal. This would give an open space that can be more integrated with the other group areas.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 7:36PM
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Thanks for responding ... it's not my wish to keep those walls but unfortunately the builder is not allowing us to take off those walls. This is not an independent house but a high rise with 30+ floors. Any other ideas ?


    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 7:59PM
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Not sure why you think you can't move the red wall adjacent to the kitchen. There's no structural reason that can't be modified., its pretty straightforward with a column and a beam

With that wall open, you have a lot of kitchen options

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 8:01PM
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Thanks for the response. Agreed if removed, we have lot of options. My builder is stating that it's a "load barring wall" and is the reason for not changing/removing. I am layman in the construction subject.


    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 8:21PM
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Ok, I'll play. Don't hit me, but are doors allowed in the red walls? Like a normal 24-30 inch door? I have an idea taking shape...I can post with and without door added when it works itself out. Doors are usually ok unless they are large, or I suppose many in one wall. You can see what people come up with and then decide if you want to ask.

Can you add more about what you want? There seems to be a good amount of counter space. What doesn't work? What do you want it to do? What's your wish list, specifically?

Can you also provide more detailed measurements for all the short walls as well and red walls? Especially in the servant area it's hard to see what will and won't fit without measurements.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 8:56PM
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It may just be me, but compared to the living and family rooms, the dining room seems gigantic. Can any of the extra space be reconfigured?

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 9:09PM
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If this is an apartment in a mid- or high-rise building there may be utilities that pass through the walls in question from floor to floor, apartment to apartment and that could be the limitation.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 9:12PM
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talk amongst the 30 floors of residents:someone has hired a structural engineer and builder to do similar work as removal of your red walls.i just would put money on it...then a better,more open concept plan can follow.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 9:18PM
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Hi Palimpsest,
The structure is in Seismic Zone-3 and they are following Myone construction technology ... in my view they are following not only column, beam but concrete walls in between as well. so is the probable reason for not allowing to change the walls.

Hi Williamsem - :) thanks for suggestions ... i am also learning doors are not possible with the concrete wall.

My wants - coundn't simplify, sorry : a) need a functional kitchen with space more than what you see with the builder plan (show in the pictures). b) need more cupboard space - window is taking much of the space. c) "formal" kitchen is in the middle of the apartment, is there any thing done to have informal dining next to kitchen?
d)more than all, do not want to have a servant room, use it for some kitchen or store space.

linelle : yes, i am ready to change the formal dining if for any better design.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 9:24PM
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Dear Willamsem,
Please find the attached with Servant room measurements. I do not need an exact drawings but an idea is enough to translate to an interiors consultant. Much appreciated.

Note: the thinner walls may be ~10 inches

- Suneel

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 10:10PM
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Oh, measurements! Yay! Will see if anything clicks in the am. Didnt think the w/d would fit in the little alcove, but looks like it would...

But here's one idea. Fridge is recessed into utility room just after red wall ends to make it flush with counters. Sink is under window to allow cabinets where sink was, DW to left of sink, range scooted down a little for better prep area. Rounded peninsula for aisle clearance. You mentioned casual seating, -might- be able to get 2 seats depending on actual measurements. Utility sink is that funny looking thing on the bottom left. Plenty of room for drying racks or wall mounted expandable racks.

I'm sure there are plenty of issues, I'm nowhere near an expert, our resident experts should have some good ideas when they come along. But it's a place to start...

Edit- hahahaha forgot the pic! Oops!

This post was edited by williamsem on Sat, Feb 9, 13 at 23:48

    Bookmark   February 9, 2013 at 11:05PM
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I know you asked about the kitchen but, I think you should rethink the closet in the master bedroom. Why not give yourself a walk in closet/dressing room adjacent to the master bath. Much more user friendly. Then you would have a nice wall to furnish/decorate instead of a wall of bifolds or sliders or whatever the closet doors would have been. I must say it again, much more user friendly!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2013 at 6:44AM
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Given the massive amount of structural limitations here, this is a job for an on-site architect who will consult with the building's engineer. You've gotten some good suggestions, but you have a special situation in a multi family dwelling that requires consulting a licensed professional architect in your location. Everything you do can impact others in their portion of the dwelling, and there may be more limitations than just those walls that cannot be removed. Finding someone local first thing Monday should be your highest priority.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2013 at 10:31AM
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Nothing annoys me more than a contractor who isn't being honest with a homeowner. I'm an architect. Adding a column and a beam is the cheapest way to open the wall. Not rocket science. Not complicated. A little more money, yes. Even if you kept the cabinets in the same place, viewing the adjacent spaces would feel a whole lot better than keeping that wall in place.

You may want to consider a consultation with an architect near you

    Bookmark   February 10, 2013 at 10:50AM
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since your dining area is so large and your kitchen is a bit tight, I recommend putting a cleanup zone with a sink and dishwasher with dish storage in the dining room somewhere. It should be made to fit in with the living and dining decor rather than the kitchen so when it is cleaned up, it looks like a piece of furniture.

Perhaps this can be done in the area that is now called "study" though I'm not certain if you need this study area.

can you talk about your lifestyle? kids, pets, work at home, type of entertaining you do? this may help.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2013 at 10:56AM
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Frankly, I am overwhlemd with the all responses... thanks and much appreciated.

Wiliamsem : I like the drawing. openning the servant room's door/window gives much space, almost 6'2'' X 15'4''. Lots of space. after consulting the family, we like the idea of 1) Moving the washer to where your utility sink position was. This building is in Hyderabad, India. So, no dryer with lots of sunshine in that city. Even if we need the dryer, we can stack as are front loading machines. 2) Few cabinets next to Washer. 3) Keep the utility sink where the W/D was in your diagram. 4) Rest of the kitchen flow is good.

Benefits from your recommendation >>
1. More cabinet space
2. Efficiency (particularly fridge moving in place of door.
3. Quick nook for breakfast etc.
4. Large utility / balcony (some plants @20th floor :))

Drawbacks >>
1. "Little busier than previous plan" (particularly @ "breakfast nook" for lack of better term)
2. Uneven wall (behind fridge) when looking from utility area. may not be of much concern.

How does it look if we arrange the nook table "135 degrees to the wall" intead of "90 degress"(your drawing). Idea here is to give more room in kitchen ? Please advise.

Added a picture (please see the change in BLUE color)

This post was edited by Suneel on Sun, Feb 10, 13 at 12:05

    Bookmark   February 10, 2013 at 11:50AM
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Sumac: Good idea but i want to focus on the kitchen area first as is the BIG pain now :) I will certainly look in to your suggestion. Thanks again.

Live Wire Oak : Thanks. We have an interior designer / contractor; we will consult builder before making any changes.

Felixnot : As i learned, it looks like this construction technology is more expensive than the traditional column / beam concept. As expressed earlier, seems they are using technology "Myone" for earth quack resistant structure (34 floors + 3-4 levels of parking and utilities floors). BTW: I am not an expert but learner here.

Detroit Burb : Thanks. I Work from Home with 2 kids but having the cleanup area in living dining may look odd in a large, relatively expensive apartment. But I like the idea of keeping the crockery unit around dining area.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2013 at 11:55AM
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I am far from an expert, but here are a few ideas I had:

1. Turn the S. Toilet into a laundry room. Maybe pull the wall and door a little to the right so it lines up with the shaft wall above. If you can, use a pocket door that drops into the wall below so the door does not swing into the laundry room. The wall at the top where the door swings into now could have a fold-up or down table 16-20" deep when open, that would lay flat against the wall when not in use. (The table would block the door way when in use, but would give the person inside the room a place to fold clothes, or you could fold them at the kitchen table.) Depending on how you place the items, which depends in large part on the window, the room should have space for a washer (plus stacked dryer if desired), utility sink, a small amount of cabinetry or shelves to hold laundry supplies, and maybe a bar for hanging clothes.

2. Turn the utility room into a walk-in pantry. Put shallower shelves (10-14" deep) on the left side and deeper storage (18-24") on the right side, leaving at least 3 feet in between. The right side could have a counter top area with cabinets below and shelves above. The counter could give you a place to store and use any small appliances you do not want out in the main kitchen (microwave, crock pot, toaster oven, etc.)

If you want a larger laundry room, leave the laundry in the utility room and put a smaller walk-in pantry in the S. toilet.

3. Get rid of the walls that create S. Room so that the kitchen is now an L wrapping around pantry. Use a small round table and 4 chairs for casual in-kitchen eating.

4. Either buy a counter-depth fridge or use deeper counter on left side of kitchen with standard depth fridge. With a 9' 10" wide space, you could have a 30" deep counter on the left side, a standard depth counter on the right side, and still have over 5' in between, which is wide enough for a 24" dishwasher and sink base of up to 36" at the top end.

5. There is a lot of wasted space next to your powder room. Assuming you could use more storage space, I would move the powder room door to opposite the sink. Then you could put a reach-in closet on either the wall next to the powder room (as shown below) or against the wall between kitchen & dining/foyer. If you want even more storage, a small walk-in closet could be placed next to powder room.

Please excuse poor drawing - this is the first time I have tried to do this.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2013 at 3:35PM
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    Bookmark   February 10, 2013 at 4:04PM
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