Any KDs out there want to give me an island?

cwalenFebruary 13, 2013

Hello all. Third design from KD received late yesterday. I'm concerned that the fridge is too far away from the sink.

I'd love an island that can be used for informal meals/snacks but not sure if my space an accomodate one.

IF it can, would you do a long island, or square? I'm not sure i have the width to do square. Would you have a slightly longer one instead?

Blondelle did another design which I liked, i'm just not sure its big enough...and if i don't have room to get four barstools somewhere around it, should I scrap the idea and go for the peninsula as in this layout?

My other thread is here: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0209360932398.html?15

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herbflavor

use the fridge recess instead for microwave and oven. Place the fridge and cooktop on small window wall[current range wall] .Clear the existing sink wall.....run the island right thru the middle with walk on all sides....place sink on the island along with lots of drawers and counter galore.You can have a 4 by 5 foot island and have 4 ft walkways on either side.I can't tell where people come in and out from....if one walkway can handle a slight reduction-to 36 pr 39 inches/the other side can grow that much and allow stools. Or if the 4ft dimension of island drops to 42 in you can expand area for stools.Easy-if you want an island do an island kitchen. I don't think you benefit from U or G or peninsula kitchen and then struggle to get an island. Maybe a cart. I think you want an "island" kitchen.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 11:43AM
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tracie.erin

Yes, your fridge is nearly 12 feet away from your sink and you DW is in an awkard place as well.

I have 2 ideas for you. The first gets you a smallish and skinny, long rectangular island, and the other gets you a larger, deeper rectangular island.

1) If you want to keep the L-shape (along top and side walls), you have room for an island only if you have cabinetry with no seating, or a counter-height table with no cabinetry underneath. You will need to put the fridge at the end of the sink run and the range in front of that top window (not permitted by code in some areas) so that the island is not a barrier between fridge and range.

With this layout I am allotting you a 27"Wx52.5"D island or counter height table, which leaves you about 47" inches on either side of it except in front of the fridge where the aisle will be approx 12" less if you get a standard depth fridge.

2) Now, if you are willing to totally remove the right cabinet run you CAN have a nice big island facing the range wall with seating on the bottom edge and possibly sides as well, if you are willing to give up the extra cabinetry. Basically, the range stays put, fridge goes all the way to the right of the top wall, island in front containing sink and DW. Be sure to put a 9" filler or pull out pantry between the fridge and the wall so the fridge doors can open fully. I would make the range run 30" deep to allow for a secondary prep space. Be sure to have pantry space where the fridge is currently because you are losing a lot of cabinetry with this layout.

With this layout I am allotting a 74.75"Wx40.5"D island, which leaves you 48" for the top work aisles, and 36" for each of the side aisles (traffic aisles, not work aisles). This size island will allow for 2 (or a somewhat cramped 3) stools along the bottom side. If you add seating to the sides of the island you will need to make the island less wide so those aisles can be larger to allow for thru traffic behind a seated diner, but it's not really worth it since you would only gain an extra one seat per side.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 11:43AM
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tracie.erin

Herbflavor and I are saying basically the same thing. The only thing I would add to both our discussions is that the DW will make it so the sink will be dead center in the middle of your island, chopping your prep space down to about 2' on either side - less if you get a sink larger than 2' wide. That's why I recommend deepening the counters on the top wall to 30" - that will give you a nice long, deep stretch of prep space. It'll be right in front of your window, too - how nice!

I grew up in a house with deeper counters and it was heavenly. And hey, your fridge is already sticking out further than your counters so you may as well bridge some or all of the difference.

You can get deeper counters inexpensively by simply building a 2x6 frame against the wall, installing the cabinets in front of that, and simply running the counters over both. Or, you can go more expensively and get cabinets that are 30" deep instead of the standard 24".

Good luck!

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 11:50AM
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cwalen

Tracie -

I'm having trouble picturing where the sink will be? In the island? If so, where would the DW be?

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 11:58AM
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tracie.erin

Yes, the sink and DW will be in the island in Option 2. In option 1, they are next to each other on the right wall.

This post was edited by tracie.erin on Wed, Feb 13, 13 at 12:29

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 12:03PM
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tracie.erin

CW - here are some really, really rough drawings I did of my options 1 and 2 for you. They are really for conceptual purposes only at this point. Also, I forgot to move the range in front of the window in option 1.

Option 1:

Option 2:

This post was edited by tracie.erin on Wed, Feb 13, 13 at 12:50

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 12:27PM
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herbflavor

in option 2/rotate it so length runs the other way. do a med sized single bowl sink and dishwasher on longer run....then install small sink up at fridge......you'll be creating nice zones-between fridge and range with deeper counters and small sink you can prep and have island end behind you. On long side run of island you get clean up sink/dishwasher ....and if that sink migrates to some proximity of microwave/ovens you embellish that zone really nicely. If you don't put oven with microwave the cab for microwave can be 18 in depth.....keeping nice "elbow room"-if you know what I mean.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 1:12PM
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tbb123



Deeper bases on the fridge wall.

Beverage fridge/breakfast center?

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 1:26PM
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cwalen

I love the design options at hand. Thank you ALL!

A few odd quirks to be considered:

- the window on the right wall is a higher window so its naturally suited to be above a counter. So in turn if all cabinetry is removed from that wall, the window without a counter below it, will look odd. And since the house is brick I don't want the added cost of replacing the window with a different size.

- there is an option of locating the pantry in the sunroom (the room to the left of the kitchen). If we explore that path, would this allow for an island that allowed for seating around it?

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 2:03PM
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tracie.erin

I don't think the window on the right wall would look odd without counter under it, but that's up to you.

The only way losing the pantry (you mean that jog at the bottom left) would allow for seating is if you extended the island all the way down and let it flare out (in a rectangular or curved shape) in that area. Is that possible, or do you have something - say, a seating area - down there that you need to preserve?

If you can post a whole-house layout, that would be helpful to us in determining the relationship of kitchen to the rest of the house and offering suggestions on expanding the island.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 2:25PM
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Kathy Rivera

Not at all helpful, but I am flabbergasted that an actual KD would put the DW that far away - and awkwardly turned - from the sink?!?!

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 2:45PM
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cwalen

Kathy, to be fair, the KD didn't recommend that, but i wanted to see the design that way. And he accommodated. But after seeing it on the design that's why I questioned the distance...

Tracie - here is a very rough sketch of our first floor. To note: the room we use as formal DR is catty corner to kitchen. Yes, NOT ideal. That is how the previous owners used the house so we followed suit. I am not sure how these 1930's cape cods are supposed to be laid out. I can tell you it doesn't seem right to swap LR and DR (f/p is in LR). And we can't even think about moving the kitchen. However if we extend the kitchen into that space we can annex (the space in between the present kitchen and LR) we are bringing the kitchen somewhat closer to LR. And while I love my sunroom, I hate eating in it. I'd much rather use the sunroom as a mudroom one day.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 2:55PM
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cwalen

I believe that at one point, the double window area in between the LR and Kitchen was a small eating area/dining room. I say that because the previous owners of our house bought the house in 1998 and it was a 2 apt house (first floor had 2 bdrms - the formal DR we use today as well as the office). They removed the kitchen on the 2nd floor and tried (without totally gutting house) to convert it back to a single family dwelling.

At present, the recessed area on the opposite wall of the powder room is space where the present day tub is, and we will remove to have more living space.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 3:02PM
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function_first

I have a similarly laid out cape but it lacks the kitchen sunroom addition yours seems to have. If I had all the space you have I would do tracie, erin's 12:27 (Option 2) layout with everything along the backwall and then design an island with a banquette attached to the backside (living room facing side) of it, or a table attached perpendicularly to the island as in the below examples (first two are island banquette combos, third pic is a perpendicular table). You would have enough room to have a cool eating area if you attached them like this, and if you found the right table it could expand when you needed the extra seating.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 3:35PM
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blondelle

You can keep your cabinets on the right wall and have a nice sized island as I had in my mockup. All you need to do is to open up the entrance to the sunroom more so there's plenty of clearance around the island. With that piece of wall gone, your clearance issues are mostly gone too! I don't care for the island turned the long way and the second layout is too disjointed.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2013 at 3:50PM
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tracie.erin

Piggybacking off of the others' ideas, how about something like this? Option #3 (from me, that is)

Here are some pics of island-table combos so you can get an idea of what they look like:
(alabamamommy's)

Contemporary Kitchen design by Chicago Architect Searl Lamaster Howe Architects

Modern Kitchen design by San Francisco Architect John Lum Architecture, Inc. AIA

    Bookmark   February 14, 2013 at 1:47PM
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tracie.erin

Bump!

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 12:26PM
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cwalen

Love! I need to have another meeting with my contractor to determine how many walls can come down. That will be a huge factor in the island vs peninsula debate.

Thank you all very much!!!

    Bookmark   February 15, 2013 at 12:40PM
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