Cat~~~what did you do about SS?

phoggieOctober 26, 2008

Hi Cat~~

I have been wondering how your life is going.....I hope that things have improved and by some miracle, that SS has moved out and your marriage is better for it.

Just thinking about you.


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Hi Phoggie & all,
On my blackberry here so ill give you the full version later. In short, no better. Dh has told me to stop asking when they were going to move, that he is sick of hearing about it. They continue to leave me messes @ take my clothes out of dryer and ball then up in a lump still wet, etc. I am doing 2nd interview tomorrow and if I get that job I have already found a apt, if not I will take a travel job on east coast starting mid Nov. I have totally had it. Dh wants to move with me and let them stay in the house if I take the job here, but I don't think I want to do that. Its more involved but I have a update on my pc at home ill post tonight. I'm sure you will be as disgusted as I am with it all. Thank you so much for thinking of me. I've had pneumonia @ haven't been on lately. Hugs!

    Bookmark   October 27, 2008 at 2:28PM
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Best Wishes Cat! You can do it!!!!!!!!

    Bookmark   October 28, 2008 at 3:07PM
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Cat I hope you are feeling much better by now. You sound like a strong person with a plan so I hope after all you've shared here so far you will let us know how/if your issues get resolved. Take Care.

    Bookmark   November 5, 2008 at 3:44PM
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Thanks All, I really appreciate your support in these difficult times in my life.

I am learning a lot of things about myself and what I'm comfortable and uncomfortable with in this marriage. I'm not sure where it will go but I am feeling clearer headed. As I posted elsewhere I have started attending CoDependants Annonymous meetings which has helped me immensely to maintain my focus on myself and what I want to do and how I choose to live, and will continue with this.

Things here at home have not changed and just continue on. I could bore you with some talk of how my DH continues to enable the ss's to live off us, blow their money, travel, drink daily etc. however it's the same old, same old. They are perfection in his eyes. He enables this to continue for as long as I've known him and now our, well mostly DHs life totally revolve around what SS's want and needs.

I think the bigger news is I have found a healthy way to cope and am learning to set some boundaries for me. DH is a bit taken aback and thinks I am planning on leaving him. I am not leaving him, rather the living situation.

That will happen probably around the 1st of the year. I'm looking at homes now. And feel I need to remove myself from this situation to protect my sanity and be able to keep my animals safe and have a sense of peace when I get home at night.

I have taken the job offered to me here in freezing hell, I don't dig the winter too much. It is a great position, full time, excellent benefits and 4 weeks vacation a yr plus 10 holidays & wonderful match for retirement from day one. They made me a offer impossible to refuse. I start next week.

DH congratulated me, but didn't say much else. He interviewed for a position on the other side of the state, two and a half hours away. He may very well get it. It would be good for him as he won't get many more opps like that at his age 54. Would be nice that he would have regular hours, not be killing himself etc. So, if that happens the stuff may hit the fan as I will not give up my new job to follow him. It may be good timing for seperation and time for both of us to decide what it is we want and need from this relationship.

DH asked me the other night if I was going to leave him, I said "Why? You don't need me. You have all this, this kids, the drama." He said very seriously that he needed me in his life. Well, I don't know about that. I wish I could say I believe it but I don't anymore. I alone most of the time unless kids are here, DH works into the night and forgets we have plans. I'm just trying to make a life for myself so I can be happy. With or without him. I'd prefer it with him, but I'm not sure he will be comfortable with the boundaries I need to maintain to continue in our marraige happily. But definately with no adult kids living in MY home.

DH said if he took the job that he would just let SS continue to stay here and lease it while it was up for sale. I told him I didn't care what he did with it, it's his house. SS blew the transmission on DH's truck whilst driving it up to go hunting 2 nights ago, oh what fun. I just listened to DH and did not comment.

Tough time tonight, DH baited me tonight. The bait was my cousin had called me and told me that he would be up at my families cabin and ss's were welcome to join him & his buddy to hunt but that it was a alcohol free retreat. I relayed the message to DH who said kind of sarcastically "Well they have plans to go to their friends this weekends now but it would have been nice to get a call back last week when they wanted to use it." I was very hurt, angry and offended. Why should my cousins lives now also revolve around what SS's want, really? And I foolishly slipped and commented that SS's had already been hunting multiple times this year & got a deer, he should be getting his bills paid off. DH then told me that this is what they do every year and not to b--ch at them about it. so I said "I'm not b--ching, not my kids, that's YOUR job." And of course immediately wanted to kick myself for reacting before thinking it through.

LAST TIME, I ever ask if my SS's can use the cabin. I didn't want to in the first place but DH badgered me about it for 2 weeks and I finally called. This isn't even my property it's my cousins and they very graciously let me use it in the summer a lot.

Anyway, thats where I'm at now. We will see what tomorrow brings. Hopefully a quiet peaceful day for all of us. Since everyone is up north here, I've got a good feeling about it.

I am really struggling with being powerless of what they all do and just focusing on me and what I need to do to be good to me and get through today. But I'll make it. I need to be number one in my life now and it's harder than it seems to do that.


    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 3:01AM
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Hi Cat-

I'm so happy for you, your life is just going to get better from here on.....

What you said about being "powerless about what they all do" is a simple fact of life for every one of us, it's just we co-dependent types have the hardest time accepting it. But it's the truth, there's no way you can force someone else to change, and if the way they live is not acceptable to you, you just have to move on.

As the "Co-dependent No More" book says, you can detach in love, you can detach in anger, but the important thing is to detach, and start taking care of you.

All the best!

    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 8:29AM
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Thank you Arthur :o)

    Bookmark   November 12, 2008 at 11:00AM
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good luck to you and i wouldn't let him go with you or you might find yourself in the same situation again.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2008 at 9:38PM
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Yay Cat!! I've been reading about your issue for awhile now and am so pleased to hear you got a good job and are in a better emotional place. Good for you! I wish you the best...

    Bookmark   November 17, 2008 at 4:07PM
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good luck cat, you sound so much better slowly detaching from this mess and getting a good job. your SSs drive me crazy and I do not even live with them.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2008 at 7:36PM
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Thank you all, yea Finedreams, they make me crazy too, which is why I continue to try and stay disengaged from it all-though it is difficult at times.

I appreciate all the support and well wishes!


    Bookmark   November 20, 2008 at 4:31PM
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Hi All,
A little update. I started my new job, I like it a lot but am having a little adjustment to working day shift.

Tomorrow I am leaving to drive cross country to visit my son & parents alone, just me and my little dog. My eldest SS is here visiting from out of state and bought his 2 large dogs with him, which kind of stinks as they do not like cats at all so I almost cancelled my trip to see my son over it.

DH has promised faithfully to keep my cats safe in our bedroom but I am really fearful something bad will happen. I just know he & the kids are not as cautious as I would be. I really think he should have made arangements for SS's dogs to be boarded rather than this craziness.

I do not want to cancel my trip but am really concerned and it is too late to get boarding for my cats, I have tried multiple places. Sigh. I have had this planned for 2 months, and now tihs.

Anyway, still planning n getting my own place in approx a month, can't deal with the chaos too much longer. My health is definately worse and I am sure it is stress related. I'm just so tired and the house is always chaotic & noisy.

Not sure what to do about my trip.

~Cat (please excuse my typos!)

    Bookmark   December 24, 2008 at 10:12PM
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Could you take the cats with you? I understand they would have to be in a cage or something while in the car and would probably make the trip miserable with their yowling, but at your destination, you yourself could make sure they stayed in one or two rooms. I am like you and would find it hard to trust someone else with my cats, especially people like your DH and SS's.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2008 at 11:14PM
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I've thought about that but am going to stay at my parents home and their dog has ibs and is easily upset by changes in the household so my little dog is already imposing. Plus my one ca is 16 yr.s old, I'm not sure how she would deal.

Yes, DH thinks I am totally overreacting and said "Fine! I'll just tell him to leave!" I said that's not the point if you wanted him to come out you should have paid to have his dogs boarded. They are terrorizing my dogs & cats-Not to mention the other SS's elderly dog with issues living here-I just want to cry, really.

But I just don't trust them to care for my animals. DH will be working, someone will leave a door open and there you go. Everytime his male dog sees one of the cats he goes nuts barking visciously and lunging. How can I leave with that going on?

My mother is so pissed about the whole thing and I'm sure my son will have hurt feelings. It stinks. Merry christmas my ***.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2008 at 11:38PM
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So my lab, little dog & 2cats are all in the bedoom with me-nice.

DH just thinks I should go & not worry about them. He wilbe working and it will be up to the kids to make sure they stay locked in our bedroom til next Tuesday never mind the taking turns peeing them etc..and moving the cat litter box into our bathtub and the food into our bathroom attached.

Tell me, am I over reacting? I know my eldest SS feels badly, his dogs are pooly trained as his wife justdied after a extended illness last may but really he should not have brought them. I told DH SS should take them to his mothers house but oh no, no one would dream of imposing on her..

I'm just so upset, depressed, disgusted, you name it. My feelings and concerns are poopoo-ed and not taken seriously at all.


    Bookmark   December 24, 2008 at 11:56PM
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I don't think you are over-reacting. However, it does sound as if you are stuck, this time, with staying home to make sure your animals are safe. Is that what your first sentence means? Your DH and your SSs do not inspire trust, when it comes to exerting themselves to make you happy, so it seems like a wise decision, although it shouldn't have been necessary in the first place.

When you get your new place, you won't have trouble like this any more, hopefully. Meanwhile, having read this whole thread more than once, I certainly sympathize with you. I hope the changes you are planning in your life will help your DH wake up and make a few changes.

    Bookmark   December 25, 2008 at 1:17AM
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I decided to go & am on the road. Dh promised over & over to keep them safe & I told him flat out I would never forgive or get over it if something did, so hopefully things will Be ok.
Gotta say I am so happy to be out of the chaos & noise for a few days. Dh got me a nice GPS for my car, its very cool & works great. More later, texting & driving.


    Bookmark   December 25, 2008 at 1:19PM
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enjoy your time with your son and parents. sometimes I wonder if in a long run kids and parents are all we have. they are the only ones that are there. be careful driving. i don't know what state you are going to but be aware of snow storms or any of that stuff. actually after living in that crazy household you should not be scared of snow storms. just being sarcastic here. enjoy your family and by that I mean FAMILY-kids and parents.

    Bookmark   December 25, 2008 at 1:49PM
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Thanks :0)

I'm heading south, acutally down south and had perfect weather except for 20 in of rain last night but after driving in a foot+ of snow daily who cares?!

I've got another 4-5 hours to drive today then I'm there. Fed my dog 1/2 bowl of food last night when we got here and when we woke up this am there was a LOOOOOooooooong line of ANTS from the toilet water line to the sink counter where I set the leftovers-YUCK! Cleaned it all up, threw out the food but they are still coming.

There are a lot of anthills I noticed this am when peeing the dog and walking around so I'm sure it's a problem locally. Surpisingly nice place for $75 bucks out the door (aside from ants of course). Very nice rooms, flat/wide screen tv, coffee, fridge, pool, etc..comfy beds. La Quinta place.

Anyway first morning I woke up without my stomach in knots and having to hit the immodium in a very long time.

I think that is very telling when I'm more comfortable in a hotel/with ants than home. It's not like I never want the kid around or to visit, but It's just so quiet & nice without the chaos.

Check in later, thanks so much for your support everyone, it really means a lot to me.


    Bookmark   December 26, 2008 at 10:22AM
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Hey Cat-

A possible "quick fix" if you have ants getting into the dog food is to put the dog bowl inside of a larger bowl or baking pan, and put a layer of water in the larger bowl...ants won't cross the water to get to the dog food bowl....worked for me, anyway....

Take care!


    Bookmark   December 29, 2008 at 11:55AM
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Well, I have had a wonderful trip. It just hammered home to me I do not want to live in the chaos any longer.

Love DH, I miss him but not the situation at home. I do not however think he missed/misses me at all at least he has never said so to me.

It makes me sad that our marriage has declined so much mostly due to just never being able to enjoy being a couple without constant drama. I'm having trouble detaching with love tonight, maybe because I am heading home and miss his presence, but I do not think he feels the same. We have talked daily but it's been short check in convos.

I tried to talk with him about making plans for a hotel get away in March and he seems very disinterested and made no comment.

I hope he did have a nice time visiting with his son from out of state and spending time with all his boys together over the holidays. I enjoyed seeing my son very much. He is doing very well and happy.

I wish I had a crystal ball and could see into the future so I could be sure I make the right decision for us.

Dh seems very disinterested in doing anything as a couple, making plans for the future, just anything. I'm feeling he wants me to just go but won't say it. I do not want to leave him or the marriage, just the living situation. There are just too many people and animals living in our house for it to be relaxing and peaceful for us. It's not that I never want to be around or see the kids, I just want it to be normal, on the weekends and everyone be on their own.

Interestingly, my IBS flare/symptoms completely subsided while away. I need to learn how to not let stress get to my gut.

I know, I am rambling. Just so very sad. I have always adored this man, just at a loss. I feel pushed out of the family and our home, like I am the last priority to him.



    Bookmark   December 31, 2008 at 12:44AM
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Last day of driving today. I should be "home" whatever that is tonight. DH called to wish me Happy New Year last night. I had such a nice trip, really got a chance to relax and remember what it's like to live in a peaceful environment.

Told Dh I missed him much but not the chaotic home life at all. He doesn't believe I missed him, I think because I didn't invite him this trip. Which I did purposely so I could have some time to myself to evaluate things without any pressure.

The bottom line for me is I love him vey much but can't continue living in this situation. I was told by him in Sept I think to not question him any further about when SS/Dog/Kid moing out on their own and I haven't.

I realize I have no say over what happens in his house so it's pretty obvious I need to find my own home if I want to live the way I want to live. I don't want to live in a house where my spouse makes unilateral decisions that greatly affect my daily life without considering or asking my input first.

I really hope DH will not be too angry that I want to live elsewhere and maybe f he is able to focus more on providing for his childrens needs and helping them without having to listen to me complain about me & mine not being met, we will ultimately become closer when he accomplishes whatever he feels he needs to accomplish there.

Maybe he needs to feel SS is more stable before he can let him be on his own. I don't know and after all these years I'm tired of trying to figure it out and it really doesn't matter, it is what it is. I don't want me, our marriage, or our home life to be last on the priority list anymore.

Hopefully within a few 3-4 weeks I'll find something not too far away and we can maybe become close again without all the stress and chaos swirling around us. I hope he sees it as a positive thing too. I really do not want my marriage to be over, but I also don't want to be constantly stressed out and have my gut in knots on a daily basis.

I want a peaceful environment when I com home from work, I want to use my washer and dryer whenever I want. I want to come home o the kitchen as clean as I left it. I want to be able to watch my tv in the lving room whenever I want. I want to see G-son & SS a few times a weeks for visits and play (G-son) and maybe go do things together occasionally like they do with SS's mother.

A big list of wants I know, and I know that DH just wants me to back off and not bother him about any of the above as he works so hard all the time to provide for all of us.

When he comes home he doesn't want to listen to me complain or deal with any of this stuff. I am truly the prolem here because I am the only one not happy with the living situation. I've done a lot of soul searching this week and this is the best solution I can come up with that will save my marriage and my sanity. I hope DH will agree, as I love and adore him, he is very kind, generous and nice person. So I hope his works out but of course realize I cannot control his reaction to my plans and that he may be angry or hurt.


    Bookmark   January 1, 2009 at 10:50AM
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It sounds like you got some much-needed rest and mental clarity during your break, and that you are now clear on just how much of a toll your husband's priorities and living situation are taking on your health. You are fully entitled to your peace of mind! That's a basic human right, and your husband has been ignoring you and your rights for far too long.

But I'm concerned because from many things you've written, it doesn't sound to me like you and your husband are communicating well. You seem to fear that he doesn't love you or miss you because of the things he doesn't say. And he seems to fear you are planning to leave him -- when ending your marriage is the last thing you want. But your health is deteriorating and you two still aren't communicating -- so nothing would change if you do try to 'stick it out' -- and you desparately (and legitimately) need for things to change.

I'm going to suggest that you put your thoughts into a Very Brief note and hand it to him before you leave. Make it Crystal Clear exactly what you mean, what you want, and what you plan to do. Something along the lines of:

- I love you very much and really missed you when I was away.
I want to stay married to you, and I truly want for our marriage to work.

- But I cannot continue living in that house with all of the kids and animals.
The constant stress and chaos have damaged my physical and emotional health in many ways
that my brief time away from the chaos has alleviated.

- I have tried to resolve this issue by discussing it with you,
but you were unwilling to make any changes,
so I have decided, for my own health, that I need to move out.
I have found a new apartment and will be moving on January 5th.

- It is important to me that you understand my reasons for leaving.
I am not leaving YOU or even our marriage;
I am leaving our living situation, which I can no longer tolerate.

IMO, putting it in writing is very important because I don't think he will understand your meaning the first time he hears it, or sees it. Having it in writing allows him to read it and read it until it finally does sink in - correctly, we hope. You will be able to control your message and avoid saying hurtful inflammatory things in the heat of battle.

Then do it.
If you cave in and stay (before the kids have a signed lease), you will have lost your credibility and bargaining power, and nothing will change.

Best of luck to you Catlettuce...

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 10:41AM
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Thank you Sweeby so very much. I really want him to understand "why" I am doing what I'm doing. Your note is perfect and hopefully will help him to remain calm & thoughtful about it. I should be ready financially by the end of the month.

There is no intention of SS29 to move out @ DH encourages him to stay I think. Last night I listened to SS go on& on about how DH should sell his surround sound system on eBay. Why? Dh ended up getting very upset & leaving the rm.

Again thank you, you put my feelings into words so perfectly.


    Bookmark   January 4, 2009 at 3:12AM
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You have mentioned that you want to remain married. Perhaps you should mention in your letter what time dinner is at your place and can he try this. I imagine that you should sign a short term lease for now, as you see how you feel "on your own" and the quietness of living alone. If you felt that you could give him a key to your new place, and tell him that it is your hope that he will spend time with you in this private space to share as a couple, perhaps he will find he likes the tranquility of this private space you are very willing to share with just "him".
I would imagine if it is your hope to spend time with him, choose a place that is close enough to where he lives. A place you think you would both enjoy spending time at. Perhaps if he understood that you do not want to leave "him" - just the house where his adult kids live - perhaps if he really understood what it is you want, perhaps he would help you pick the place out. And if he really understands how much you love him, perhaps it will work. Sweeby is right. Put it in writing how you feel about him, and that you want to remain married, and that it is your hope to continue your relationship outside of the home where his son(s) live. Tell him you understand his role as a father, and his need to not throw his son out. And that you have tried to live with these adult son(s). But that the chaos is affecting your health, both physical and emotional. That the constant chaos makes you irritable and in a bad mood. That you love his kids and your grandchild, but not in your living space everyday. You are willing to understand his need to continue to support his son(s). Can he understand your need to remain married, because you adore him, but to live nearby, so that when you come home from work, it is quiet and peaceful? To give your body a chance to recover physically, without the constant stress. And to make a peaceful place where the two of you can spend time together as a couple alone.

See if he will give this a chance. Give you a chance to at least see if the two of you can thrive as a couple again, living in a way that is unique, but not impossible.

I once read about a married couple that lived in a duplex. One in each unit. They loved each other, but could not live in the same house. So they solved the problem by selling their home, and buying a duplex, each moving into their own unit. I think if I remember correctly, one was really neat, and the other really messy. They claimed it worked well for them.

Having an adult son of that age living at home is obviously not the norm. And having to come up with a solution that saves your marriage (while allowing this adult kid to continue living there) well, that solution will also be outside of the norm, since your DH is unwilling or unable to change what is creating stress in your home.

So your response and solution to the problem does not seem unreasonable. A unique solution to a unique problem.

I wish you happier days ahead Cat.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 9:10AM
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"Perhaps you should mention in your letter what time dinner is at your place and can he try this."

Brilliant addition!
And exactly what that note needs to warm it up and communicate your true hope to keep the marriage alive.

Excellent suggestions throughout BNice --

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 11:21AM
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"If you felt that you could give him a key to your new place, and tell him that it is your hope that he will spend time with you in this private space to share as a couple, perhaps he will find he likes the tranquility of this private space you are very willing to share with just "him"."

What a great idea, BNice! That may turn out to be the solution.

And Cat, your DH may just decide after a while that he enjoys the peace at your place a lot more than what goes on at his and spend more and more time there with you.

    Bookmark   January 5, 2009 at 3:22PM
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Far be it from me to second guess Sweeby. I always search for her wise posts when people need help and am seldom disappointed in her advice.

I don't know much about divorces - but two red flags are (1) anything put in writing can and will be used against you and (2) somewhere, years ago, I read that the person who moves out is at a legal disadvantage - in this case, I'm applauding! Just thought I'd throw my two concerns out there to ensure cat doesn't take any missteps.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2009 at 8:59AM
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Wow, these are really great suggestions! I just hope DH can take them with the good intentions I have. And I do love my SS's and g-son very much but do not wish to cohabitate with them (or my son) at this time in my life.

I'm going to look at a place tomorrow on my lunch and on Fri after work. I really hope this is a good solution and that DH will be open to it. Yes it is a unique solution, I think it would work really well for me.

Thank you all so much for your helpful input and kind thoughts.


    Bookmark   January 6, 2009 at 8:36PM
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Hey All,
I'm feeling pretty low agan.

DH found a house for us, needs to be gutted/redone etc. We would lease our place to SS, but help with almost $400 monthly as he cant pay it all and it probably won't sell anytime soon.

Anyway I asked that SS sign a lease agreement (something to make it more "business like" and got one altogether even saying if rent was paid on time every month we would but a $50 treasury bond for G-son towards college every month. DH was very insulted that I would ask SS to sign a lease AT ALL he was very offended and said I would never ask my son to do such a thing. (I would in fact).

I explained to him it was to get SS in th habit of saving & paying for rent monthly as he hasn't done so the past 11 months, it would be helpful to get him in the habit of saving not spending etc.

Anyway, I ended up tearing it up and telling DH to forget it, to handle it himself and keep me out of it completely. If it didn't afect me directly I do not want to hear about it period.

He later asked me if I still wanted to buy the house ( in my name) it would be paid for in cash & a gut and re-do. I tod him no, to do it in one of is sons names or as a project with his son. I know he is hurt but so am I. I had good intentions but want to see some compromise on the whole SS being completely dependant on us issue. Otherwise whos to say he doesn't say the house payt, the house gets foreclosed and he is on our doorstep again with no place to live.
Am I wrong to want DH to set some boundaries here? OR should I just roll with it and hope our little love nest turns out to be just that? The other part of me doesn't want to drag things out when I feel so second class.

Sigh.. Why can't he just budge a little or make me feel at least AS important to him as his kids? My family & friends will not even discuss this with me anymore, they cannot understand why I am still here, but the reason is. I love him, he is a good man. I'm very, very sad here. Not sure what to do. Sure hope that ambien works tonight.

The house would be in my name for tax reasons btw, if that makes a difference.


    Bookmark   January 18, 2009 at 11:55PM
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Oh and the other night we were watching some show, and he said something along the lines of that's why Ex'es are ex'es, once you leave them or they leave you-that's it, it's done.

I felt like it was a warning of some sort, you know?


    Bookmark   January 19, 2009 at 12:00AM
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Cat, I'm with your family, I don't understand why you're still with him. You say he is a good man, and maybe he is, but not towards you. He constantly puts your health and happiness way behind that of his leech son and grandson (though I feel sorry for the grandson, it's not his fault). He risks your financial future and expects you to roll over and put up with it. He spends what little time he has home with everyone but you, volunteers you to babysit and puts your beloved pets at risk. Instead of calmly discussing your situation he makes snide hints. It really looks like all the love in this relationship is coming from you.
What positive things do YOU get from this relationship?

    Bookmark   January 19, 2009 at 2:26AM
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Sorry - but I have to agree that he is putting his irresponsible adult son ahead of you and your health.

And even getting his son to sign a lease wouldn't change anything. The first month Sonny came up a little short and needed 'a few days' to pay the rent (month 2?), Hubby would be right back to supporting him financially 100%. And you two would be living in the 'gutted' house with money too tight to finish it, while irresponsible adult son and his freeloading family lives in YOUR HOUSE!

Since Hubby won't "grow a pair", I'd suggest that you do it...
Since Hubby won't put you and your legitimate health needs first, I'd suggest that you do it...

They say that women believe words and men believe actions.
Look at his actions, because they are speaking pretty clearly.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2009 at 10:02AM
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Hi Cat~~

I agree with the last couple of posts, as well as your family.

Did you take the job you were offered?...if so, why haven't you moved on to getting your own place? If DH doesn't even think enough of you to at least come visit like a "good person" should, why don't you just go ahead and try to make a life of your own. "Maybe", by taking these actions, he might realize that he does want to make a life with you......if not, cut your losses now....time is not waiting for you. If you want things to improve, YOU need to make it happen. He is not going to make that SS do need to just accept it and let them "rot" in their house....but make things better for yourself~~~~with or without him!

    Bookmark   January 19, 2009 at 10:42AM
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Here is my letter to DH;
I will give it to him sometime next week ifI have the nerve;

Please fel free to critique. I don't want to screw this up.


Dear Hubby,
Let me start off by saying I love you. I simply adore every inch of you body and soul.
I believe you are a good, sweet & kind man. I do.
I have not been happy for quite sometime with our living arrangment. I did at one time
approach you about counseling so perhaps we could work on compromises and better
communication skills. I was met with a somewhat joking response about my just needing
to leave my breasts out more. That really hurt my feelings and pretty much nixxed the idea
of couples counseling for me.
I am completely aware that I am not number 1 in your life or on your priority list for many years now.
And for now I accept that. That's just the way it always has been and will be.
But I at least need to be #1 to me.

I understand you must take care of your children first and foremost. I understand your role as a father,
and your need to not ask your son to be on his own and independant just yet. You need to understand that I gave up
my desire to have another child with you after we married and I feel hurt sometimes that if all this time if we were going to
have children in the house anywy, we could have had one together. But it is to late for that now.
And now of course we have plans to make a new home together and
I am very happy and excited about that. And I hope someday I will be a first priority to you too, in your heart.
I have lived with these adult kid(s) for quite awhile, but the chaos is affecting my health, both physical and emotional.
The constant chaos makes me irritable and in a bad mood. I love your kids dearly and of course our darling grandson,
but not in our living space everyday. I am willing to understand your need to continue to support your son(s).
Can you understand my need to remain married to you, because I adore you,
but to live nearby, so that when I come home from work and on the weekends, it is quiet and peaceful?
To give my body & mind a chance to recover physically, without the constant stress.
And to make a peaceful place where the two of us can spend time together as a couple alone.
Only until we can get moved into our new home. I will make dinners and we can spend hopefully some
quiet, quality time alone together during this transition. I won't be in your/their home bothering anyone.
So I think it would be a good soution for everyone. I will try to find a place in between
my office and our new home so if you would like me to help with anything with the house (I hope so)
it will be more convienent.
Dinners will be 7-8 ish, I hope you will be there to share it with me. I'm really excited & hopeful our new home will be
the start of new beginnings and happiness for us together.

I Love you,

    Bookmark   January 20, 2009 at 1:58AM
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I'm sorry, I have trouble coping with this. Essentially your letter says, "Even though you have emotionally abused me and belittled me, denied me the chance of a child with you and continue and will continue indefinitely to make everyone else in your life a priority over me, your wife, that's OK because I still love you. I'll just keep out of everyone's way like a good little serf and pay for my own home, which you can use as well when the situation you have created in what was once my home gets too much for you too."
If I was your husband my first thought would be, "Sweet! Not only do I not have to support my wife any more, which will free up cash for the kids, but she'll take me in and pay my way too if I need it. How good is that??"
I can't help but feel this "new home" you speak of will eventually also be taken over by his kids when they can't pay their rent (a good bet since they haven't shown any ability in that direction so far) or your husband's money/health runs out and he can no longer support two households.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2009 at 4:24AM
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My original suggestions was to : "...put your thoughts into a Very Brief note and hand it to him before you leave. Make it Crystal Clear exactly what you mean, what you want, and what you plan to do."

I'm afraid Colleen's interpretation of your letter is also what I read. You're emoting all over the page. I understand that you're hurt, confused, angry, disappointed -- so many things. That's reasonable and understandable. But they're clouding up your message, and your point is getting lost in the tears.

One of my college writing professors gave me some fabulous advice. It followed a lecture about how even the most beautifully written letter or report was a failure if it didn't achieve it's objective. (Think of those wonderful TV ads where you can't remember which product it was they're advertising.) Your letter has a point. A purpose. A vitally important purpose! And for this letter, it is far more important to achieve your objective -- to communicate your point -- than to be well-written and sensitive to your husband's feelings. In fact, I'm going to suggest that if you make this letter too sensitive to Hubby's feelings, that you won't get your point across at all.

OK - So after the lecture about getting your point across, her advice was simply this. Get out a piece of scrap paper and write down a short, direct, bluntly-worded statement instructing the recipient to do what you want them to do, ex. "Send me the $450 you owe me today" or communicating your main idea. ex. "I cannot continue to live with your son, so I'm leaving." DO NOT worry about making it sound nice. This is scrap paper, and it's sole purpose is to clarify your thoughts. Above that sentence, write down the facts supporting your position, your reasons, any additional information you need them to have. Again, be short, direct and clear. DON'T be diplomatic! This is scrap paper. Once your ideas are down on scrap paper, edit them to be sure they are clear and concise. Include all the important points, cut out the details or unimportant filler. Put your points into a logical order. Then start your letter.

Use your scrap paper as a guide, only this time through, give some thought to communicating your points sensitively. Don't be so sensitive that your points get lost! You have something important to say, and if your meaning gets lost, your letter will have failed. Remember this when you start to worry about hurting his feelings. Don't be deliberately hurtful -- but be factual. Your husband's been downplaying your feelings for years now. Don't YOU downplay them now!

I'd try posting your scrap-paper version here first.
Just the main ideas, worded to be direct, not 'nice'.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2009 at 10:06AM
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I think you are continuing to engage in "magical thinking", that somehow you will create a situation where DH will turn into the kind of person you want him to be....but DH has never been that kind of person before, certainly not during the time you have been with him, and perhaps never in his life.

You and DH have a fundamental difference in outlook about how to live your lives....up til now you've been living "his life", but it's literally killing you, and so you are getting out (good for you).....but to think he will suddenly embrace your lifestyle, even in a small way, is simply wishful thinking on your part. DH will bring his dysfunctional lifestyle with him wherever he goes, even into your apartment, if you don't get really good at saying "No" and establishing iron clad boundries. ( I won't even let my stbe (soon to be ex) visit my apartment, because of the bad vibes she brings along).

At the least, I'd postpone any talk of a second house until you are in the apartment for several months, your outlook might be much more independent once you are on your own and out of the chaos.

Best of Luck!

    Bookmark   January 20, 2009 at 11:59AM
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I am wondering if this interim apartment/condo/home needs to be just yours, with your DH visiting. Otherwise, if you both go out and get another house, what is to stop his kids from coming over all the time to see their dad. How will it be any different than the living space you have now?

If (or when) his son(s) stop paying the rent on the current house, will you and your DH be footing the bill for two homes now? Because you already know that if (or should I say when) son(s) don't pay, they know and you know that he will not kick them out. You will then have the stress of carrying two mortgages, along with all of the other bills that come with running a house.

And secondary, I would not even consider buying a fixer upper. Because I imagine you know who (sons) will be over at the house all the time helping him work on it. And what will you have accomplished? More debt, and nothing changes.
His son's still hanging around the next house.

In regards to your letter, I would leave out the breast part, and the baby part (too late to do anything about that anyway) and I would get really clear about what it is you want. In one sentence you say that you are really excited to get a house together, and it another you talk about living nearby, away from the chaos. Ponder what it is you want, and need, and be clear.

Be careful not to confuse things writing about his jokes that hurt, etc. Stay focused on what you need regarding this issue, and your love for him and your desire to remain married. Reassure him that you love his kids, and your grandchild, but that this place will be a sanctuary from all of that chaos. I imagine now is the time for you to become clear (even to yourself) whether his son(s) and grandchild will be welcome in your new place, and if so, how often? I think this is where conflict can arise. Will his son(s) just spill into your new place, hanging around too much...and if so, what did you accomplish? I think for me, that would be my concern...if you get another house together, would it be your sanctuary, or would they just take over that place too, coming and going as they please, because your DH loves having them around?

I think you just need to get your expectations clear in your mind of what your goal is, and is it realistic? Is your DH willing to support you, and your need for a home that is quiet and peaceful, much of time. Are you willing to have his kids or grandchild over and if so, how often? If you are not clear here, on what you need, I imagine that this will be the point that continues to be a sore spot. Because your DH is unable to set any bounderies with his grown children, and I would fear that nothing would change, that they would just spread to the new place as well.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2009 at 12:54PM
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I am sorry, but with all the "rambling" of your letter to your DH, you lost me....and you will lose him also.

As the others have said.....Be to the point....No mushy, mush...etc. You need to get yourself in a good frame of mind before you can tackle him.

Go ahead and get yourself an apartment....please do not even think of getting another house with him at this time... You need to be by yourself and heal yourself at this time~~~holding on to "what might have been" is only dragging you down further.

You know what they say....there is only a line line between love and hate....and I think you are walking that line right now and you can not stay there. I hear you say you "love" him....but do you REALLY? He has caused your mental, emotional and physical health to be so drained that you don't seem to make decisions for yourself.

You have been given some very good advice on this post...I hope that you will take big huge steps back....look at your life for what it is...and take some actions to improve YOURSELF~~~~with or without him!

I am thinking of you...and wishing the best for you. I know it will not be easy, but you CAN do it.....get a back-bone and take care of yourself NOW....before you let him and SS to cause you a complete break-down. ((((hugs)))

    Bookmark   January 20, 2009 at 6:12PM
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I agree with coleen and others. It sounds like you acknowledge his abuse of you and you are not being a priority and then you say it is OK, I still love you and let's make a new home at my new place. it sounds like you give him a permission to continue abusing you.

If you want to have your own place then get your own place. You want him to visit, it is up to you. But buying places together? No. Rent your own place.

Like others said it will be taken over by stepkids.

Honestly I don't want to be harsh, but I don't understand why aren't you asking for divorce. You have a career. You are still young. Why dragging it? he really does not sound that great to me. you say he is kind and nice...I don't think he is. you love him and love is blind. But you'll get over it. This is just not good.

I wouldn't write any letters, he can use it against you in divorce proceedings. I have very little trust in this man.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2009 at 7:32PM
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I add my voice- that letter is so full of rambling emotions and so complicated, he will get lost in it. Stick to a very brief note and the facts.

And - sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Unless some ginormous miracle occurs, if you want the husband, you have to take the package, if you can't live with the whole enchilada, you may (probably will) have to cut loose from the husband. He has made his position very clear to you over and over and over. Yet you are still hoping things will change? C'mon.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2009 at 8:52PM
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Thank you all for the honest feedback. After I re read that I realized I am not in any state of mind to write him a letter right now.
I am going to look at two places this weekend. Typing on my BB so more later tonight. Thank you all again so much.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2009 at 8:53AM
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I have observed among friends that some people need people around them all the time, and prefer it that way, while others thrive having a lot of quiet time alone, or with just their spouse. I imagine it is the difference between extroverts and introverts. For extroverts, it energizes them to have people around them much of the time, but for introverts, it drains them, and they need space and quiet time to re-energize.

I have friends that fit into both categories, and some where one spouse is one way, and the other spouse is the opposite. Two of the couples, even need friends to go on vacation with them. They never go just with each other, or even just their own immediate family. They will only go if they can get friends to go with them.

So part of what you are struggling with may come down to your need for your home to be a sanctuary for you, while your DH thrives on all of the people in and out and the chaos. It may boil down to basic differences in your personalities.

I listened to someone on the radio speak about introverts versus extroverts, and he said extroverts are energized being around people, but that the relationships were shallower. He said introvert's had fewer friends, but the relationships they have are deeper and richer, because they talk about deeper things.

He also said that people often mistakenly think that extroverts are better than introverts, but that is not the case. Yes, extroverts appear happier with all of the people around, but because the relationships are often shallow, it is the introverts who have the deeper relationships, even if it is only with one or two people.

Anyway, just tossing this into the ring for thought as you ponder what it is you want and need, and why your current living situation is creating so much stress for you.

It may be that you just need peace and quiet in your own home, to re-energize and think and rest.

Your husband may not be happy in the peace and quiet, and may need all these people around him all the time.

Anyway, just something to ponder.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2009 at 9:15AM
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Cat: I was thinking about your situation, and I have some thoughts. First, it sounds as though your DH is a good man, who is trying to do the admirable thing of helping out his son(s) and grandchild, and at the same time, try to make his wife happy with it.

You are the only female, surrounded by males. They see the situation as workable, (as men would) if only you would stop complaining about it. Men do not get irritable about the things that bother women. Especially women around the age of menopause, with health problems that are making you increasingly irritable and uncomfortable.

I don't think your DH is purposely making his son(s) a priority over you, I think as a father, he cannot toss his son out (and grandchild) and he is dancing as fast as he can to try and make you happy, without being able to do what it is you need him to do.

They are guys. They see it through the eyes of in why can't you just be OK with this?

I see your husband between a rock and a hard place, not unlike a married son whose beloved mother is at war with his wife. He loves them both, and wants them to just get along. Men have that ability to be in the same room, and yet be totally unaware of the subtle power struggles that take place between women. They simply don't get it, and don't want to get it.

They just want everyone to get along, and they don't want to hear about it if they don't.

I think your DH loves and cares for you. I think he wants your marriage to survive this, in spite of the fact that you are perhaps the only unhappy one in the house...and I imagine everyone is walking around on egg shells when you are home.

I imagine that your DH has conflicting feelings about his son's inability to become independent. He knows at some level, his son is not the independent adult male he should have become by now. And yet, like most empty nest parents, I imagine a part of your DH loves being needed still, and enjoys his close relationship with his adult son, and the male friendship/company his son provides.

There are many parents who are unable to let go, and with an adult child being dependent, they fill that emptiness that parents can feel when they launch their children into adulthood, and their nest is too empty, and too quiet.

Is this possible in your DH's case?

But you have reached that "stage of life" when most people your age have now launched their children into adulthood, and while they miss them, they appreciate "some" peace and quiet, and that the house is clean like they left it...unlike that period of life when kids are still living at home, leaving messes everywhere. The noise and the chaos of several people living in the same house.

And now onto the marriage. I think you were fortunate to find a man you love and adore, especially in a step family situation, where you also love his son's and his grandson. You love them, but you don't want to live with them. If you read the step parent forum, so many step parents may love their spouse, but can't stand his adult children. I am wondering how many people at this stage of life actually find a mate that they "love and adore". I don't think I would walk away from that. I would first "try" and make this work with the unique solutions mentioned above. I would make sure that everyone understood how much I loved them, and that due to the health problems I was experiencing, that I needed a unique solution where I had a quiet place of my own to come home to, while my health recovered. To make your DH feel welcome there, and wanted, but making it clear that this place would be your peaceful sanctuary. Get really clear on what you want and need. Be realistic. What boundaries do you need? Would you ever watch your grandson at your place? If so, how often? Be clear so that you are not taken advantage of. You could do quiet things with your grandson like read together, or do puzzles, or play a board game, etc. Or will all interaction with them take place at the other house? I think if you think this through, you might be able to still be a part of the family, just living at your own place. They will be watching you to see where the boundaries are, and where they all fit into your life and plans. Because you obviously are going into un-chartered territory, in attempting to remain married, but getting a place of your own. By the way, I do think getting a place with your DH is fine, if you are both able to communicate what your new expectations are of your living space, and where the very clear boundaries are on his son visiting would be. (read my post above about those concerns).

It does seem as though you are afraid to communicate with your DH and say what you need to say. I have a friend like this. It took her 3 years to get up the courage to tell her DH she wanted a child. She talked about it to everyone (but him). I can not imagine being married to someone where I could not talk about things with.

Anyway, since so many people think you should leave him, I wanted to toss in another opinion. I understand that they believe he should make his son find another place to live. That he is enabling his son, and in many ways, hurting his son, by not encouraging him to launch into independent adulthood, to become the man he needs to now become. And perhaps they are right. But many young adults are in this situation, where they are unable to become independent for whatever reason. And many parent are filling something in themselves by helping too much.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2009 at 11:24AM
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Catlettuce: Wondering how you are doing, and how it is all going... Are you OK?

    Bookmark   February 11, 2009 at 12:15PM
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Hello All,
Yes, I'm ok ;0) thank you for thinking of me.Very stressed but looking forward to vacation in a few weeks. I manage about 4 hours sleep a night-terrible insomnia & pain issues I'm exhausted.

As I posted on the other thread I decided to go ahead with the new/old house. I have to know in my heart I have given this my all. DH purchased it, it is a complete remodel, tear down to the studs so it will be probably 3 months before we can actually move in. He is making it exactly how I want it and he's very excited that I agreed to give this a go. I am having a difficult time tolerating the current living situation but am hopeful some time away on the vacation will help.

DH is working his butt of to pay for the trip & house. I know he really wants to make this work but I also know he is really torn with wanting to help SS. Whom by the way continues having girls over every wkend, last weekend two different girls. One was "just a friend" over with her infant as she was having Baby Daddy Drama, she ended up spending the night after DH told SS we did not want overnight female guests. Anyhow my pain meds turned up missing the next day. Lucky for me they were leftovers and I had a refill.

so I am trying really hard to zip it & deal because I know DH is killing himself working very long days & nights to get us into our home asap and all that entails.

I got the mail last night and the late notice for SS's car payt was in there. This makes me resentful as he bought a new expensive mp3 player a few days ago & always money for alcohol, yet cannot pay his car pyt DH co-signed on. I hate feeling resentful towards him yet I do as he just does not appreciate what DH does for him. This is where I need to really work on detaching as that is between DH & him. However I do not want to deal with all the above anymore regardless.

So that's the latest. Hopefully I can get my keyboard straight on my home computer and get back to participating more here.

I really have high hopes we will make it if we can just get in our own space. But am just also trying to look at things with a cold clinical eye also as I'm just not up for the stress of dealing with a houseful plus "dates" every weekend til then.

DH knows I am very very frustrated and I know he feels really bad/hurt about the above but would never verbalize it to me, and of course I don't want to hurt his feelings even more than they already are. I try not to say to much as it puts him on the defensive. I know he sees it, and I do not want to rub his nose in it, just don't want it to be on me to deal with/live with. Hopefully he will let SS know I am not up for visitors or having the living room taken over this weekend.

I love this man deeply, I know he loves me and he is trying more every day to make me happier with our life so....Here's hoping it all works out..


    Bookmark   February 12, 2009 at 12:13PM
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    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 12:30PM
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Cat, can't you see his is "killing" you with the stress he is putting you through?......He is only "dangling a carrot" to you with this "house thing"....It's time to put an end to it~~ Stress is a killer!!!and you are there~

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 11:18AM
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Bumping this back up to see if Cat still responds or does anyone know about her? I have not visited this for a long time and was wondering how her life turned out.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2010 at 3:33PM
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She's here!!! I've seen her! Do a search for her on the bottom, there's something recent... I just can't remember which one :)

    Bookmark   May 2, 2010 at 10:08PM
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Hi! Thank you for thinking of me ;0)

I am currently looking for a home. I decided I did not want to move back to the home that SS has been living in when he gets his own place (which incidentally prob wont happen soon as his whole deal fell through-you cant get a mortgage when you have filed BK within 5 yr.s).

I went and got my mortgage approval and am working with a real estate agent looking at places now. It may take a little time as I want to be really careful to not get in over my head financially and have areasonable payment including taxes. I want to pay for it all by myself with no help from DH.

I'm sure you understand why. I am trying to keep DH in the loop about looking at homes and such, to be fair. I am still trying my best to make it not only comfortable for me but make sure he would like it too. He just says "pick whatever you want." Well, that's my plan! Whatever!!

I can tell you this, I will not accept any financial assistance from him for whatever I end up getting. I don't ever want to hear again "I'm working so hard to take care of YOU, blah, blah, blah.

I have toyed with NOT getting a house here but rather buying one out of state near my son instead. But there are some steal here & I could keep it as a rental if DH did not want to stay in the winter.

Thats whats up with me right now. Thank you for thinking of me :0)

    Bookmark   May 6, 2010 at 2:48PM
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Be sure the house is somehow protected in your name only. If you and DH end up going your separate ways you don't want it included in community property.

    Bookmark   May 7, 2010 at 2:06AM
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It's a quick-claim. Get one. Before you sign papers.

    Bookmark   May 7, 2010 at 12:52PM
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I think it's "quit claim".

    Bookmark   May 7, 2010 at 1:25PM
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You betcha, I'm also going to consult with a atty just to make sure.
I don't think DH would ever do something like that to me should we split, but I know it would be foolish to not protect myself at this point. Lots of things have happened that I never thought could or would. I appreciate the support & helpful advice. :0)


    Bookmark   May 7, 2010 at 3:34PM
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Here's a free form for it Cat. I had to get one when I bought my house because X and I were still married. If you are on the title alone, the loan officer should insist you get one because otherwise your DH would need to apply with you, etc. But I think it's wise of you to be proactive in this situation.

Here is a link that might be useful: You say potato, I say potato... :) Quick or Quit... Get'er done!!

    Bookmark   May 7, 2010 at 11:23PM
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Thank you Silver!!

    Bookmark   May 8, 2010 at 11:37AM
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