severe vaginal atrophy

coco2008August 22, 2008

I hope someone can give me some good advice. I have had painful sex for years. It is so severe now that it is impossible. I have gotten 2 paps in the last few years at my regular doctor. When I told him about the pain, he said I wasn't dry and I should either "Use it or Lose It" ( I'd like to see a guy" use it" with that much pain) So I kept trying to use it, but it was so painful, I would sob afterwards and eventually during. When I bled after sex, I finally went to a gyn. who told me I have vaginal atrophy. It is pretty severe. He couldn't believe my doc couldn't tell I had this problem. What to do? He said he didn't know if the therapy would help or not now. I start taking Vagifem semi weekly. ( 2 or 3 x) I'm pretty upset. I have been avoiding sex like crazy in the past until our sex life is nonexistant. My husband has been pretty good about it, but I am somewhat relieved that their is a medical reason, I was afraid he was thinking I just didn't want to have sex anymore. My question is....Is there any hope for me? The gyn said that this has been going on at least 10 years. Has anyone ever had it this bad?

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There is no way any of us can predict how your body will respond to the medication.

Vagifem is suppose to show results in 2-7 weeks. If there is no improvement after two months, I would talk to another doctor. There are other brands of estrogen to try. Sometimes an oral dose is more effective for this type of problem, than a topical application, but there are more risks associated with it. Your doctor is probably being cautious in his prescribing and if Vagifem is not working for you, he can give you something else to try.

I'm glad to see you decided to get rid of Dr. UseitorLoseit for you care. How unprofessional.

I do hope that your doctor informed you of the side effects of this medication. If not, Google it and see if you want to take the risks.

I would also have an open talk with my spouse about this problem since it affects both of your well being.

I hope for the best for you.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2008 at 2:06AM
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dilly dally, Oh boy, I looked them up. Gad! I don't know what is worse, the problem or the side effects. I would be fine to not taking the Vagifem, but my better half would like to have sex again.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2008 at 11:07PM
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Vagifem has worked well for me. Also helpful are silicone based lubricants, such as Pink, Swiss Navy, available on the internet. I have not seen them in stores. They last much longer than KY or Astroglide. My gyn recommended these and it's made a world of difference in my love life.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2008 at 12:17AM
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Coco2008 I too have Vaginal Atrophy. It took me a year and three different doctors and this web site to figure out what I had. If I didn't experience pain and bleeding during sex I had burning and pain afterward. It got so bad I could barely walk and sitting 8 hours at work was unbearable. I started out on Vagifem but still needed to use Replens (vaginal moisturizer) in between dosages and still didn't get the relief I needed. It wasn't until my gyn prescribed Estrace Vaginal Cream that I am finally back to normal. I insert 1gm of Estrace Cream every other night for a total of 4 to 5 gm's a week. My doctor told me that because Estrace Cream is used directly in the Vagina it doesn't cross the blood stream and that makes it much less of a risk as say HRT orally.

Go into and read what the Doctors have to say about Vaginal Dryness. It may relieve your worries about the HRT risk.


    Bookmark   August 31, 2008 at 3:07PM
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Hi--I am reading the messages on vaginal atrophy with interest. Have had many uti's in past 5 years, finally cannot have sex without getting one. Doctor trying Vagifem but it causes abdominal pain immediately. I am so dissappointed. It is so hard to discuss this my case the doctor is so young, a urogynecologist. Does anyone have any experience with "natural hormones"? I was trying to find something on this, but this particular doctor went back to the vagifem, which I have already tried with no good results. I get "infections" in both vagina and bladder...really frustrating. I guess I am pretty old, had no problems really til age 60. Any comments would be great. Thanks

1 Like    Bookmark   September 9, 2008 at 12:35AM
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Annabelle, you might want to look into the product I linked.

Here is a link that might be useful: Probiotics

    Bookmark   September 18, 2008 at 1:46PM
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I have had this since 2001, in the beginning it took 122 days to see any kind of relief. The pain was intense, I couldn't even walk. My doctor had me try 26 different drugs. It was nuts. I have been on HRT since them, and that really helped. However I find when I am super stressed out, or something traumatic occurs, it flares up. I have tried every pill, cream, ointment known to man, the ONLY thing that WORKS like a charm is
VITAMIN E suppotories. Those, saved my life! I buy them off the internet. Boxes of 24. When I start to feel burning pain, I use one each night for 2 weeks. Never has failed.
When I think the amount of $$$$ I spent, the gross stuff I have drank, all the pills I have taken, and the messy creams I have indured......these work!
BTW..I still have periods..very scanty and off & on. A lot of times the dryness will bring this on, so I use the VITAMIN E right after words. Also get yourself NON latex gloves to use with the Vitamin E.

    Bookmark   October 22, 2008 at 10:59AM
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Hi, I also suffer from vag. dryness & atrophy for years. I tried a bioidentical estriol cream. however when I inserted it wow. it burned for 15 minutes. The next night the same. It also irritated me. Has anyone else experienced this with the bioidentical estriol crream. Now I don't know what to do. They say this is so helpful.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2009 at 9:53AM
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I have the same problem i stop having sex for many years now but last month my papsmear was due i had to see my GP
the procedure was so painful and the result was unsatisfactory and she prescribe me ovisten vag.cream but i got to many side effects irritation,headache,night sweats
so i stop using it. Now im using natural herbal cream called wild yam cream i don't any side effects but i have to wait for the result yet i hope i will work.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2009 at 8:25PM
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Hi my fellow sisters in pain! Well reading your stories doesn't give me much hope. I am post menapausal..went off HRT when I was given an Estr-ring as the creams and Replens did nothing to help my plight. I have now gone back on HRT as the same nasty menapausal symptoms returned. The combination plus suppositories to help with dryness makes sex bearable for only a short time and then I need almost a month to heal again. I am miserable...but husband still doesn't really understand what I go through and he often thinks I am just making excuses. I feel like a failure ...I would be quite happy to never have sex again and he just can't understand that. Why isn't there some sort of surgical intervention, a vaginal transplant...or replacement like for burned skin or something? They can do sex changes and help errectile difficulties why not help us or are we just not important enough and should just suffer in silence? I really feel alone, and miserable because of this. I also have a male gyni who told me to use it or lose it....I told him straight out that he should feel what I feel when I do...he just laughed...IMAGINE! I am currently looking for a female gyni! Doctors don't seem to want to talk about this and everyone just seems to sigh and expect me to live with it. I could but what about my husband? Please, can anyone out there give me hope for a happy ending to this story? Some hope that this is not the end of my sexual life? Being an empty nester should be a golden time for my husband and I to reconnect and enjoy a new sexual what?

    Bookmark   March 14, 2009 at 3:20PM
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Hi cate54 omg sounds exactly like how I feel, I do use Replens and Vitamin E suppositories that do help but the pain is horrific and then need to heal for a month, I feel your pain, doctors have told me the same need to use it more, ha ha. I am mortified about hormonal creams as I have read so many blogs about causing weight gain in abdomen and hips, don't need that too. My pastor's wife has gained prob. 15 lbs on bio=identicals in month or so. Any information would be helpful, I am constantly trying new things, having the sex drive back would be great too. Thanks...

    Bookmark   March 29, 2010 at 12:18AM
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So glad I found this sight. I am having the same problems with vaginal atrophy. Etrace causes horrific abdominal pain and cramping. Without it all my bladder/UTI problems return. There has to be an answer to this. Going to a Uro-Gyn soon. I've been going to my OB/GYN for years and she never even mentioned or thought of atrophy. They just keep pushing antibiotics. What is wrong with these Dr's??

    Bookmark   May 24, 2010 at 11:40PM
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This makes me so mad hearing what these doctors say!! Where are they getting this carp, since they all seem to say the same catch phrase?! My doctor said he didn't know why I was having this problem. THANKS A LOT!! I want to have sex and I can't figure out why I can't get an effective treatment. So many women on these boards complain of this problem, I can't understand why my gyn. looked at me like I was a hypochondriac!! You ladies are so right, if these male doctors had such pain with sex you can bet your bottom dollar the researchers would be all over it and they would not be told "use it or lose it."

    Bookmark   July 29, 2010 at 12:15AM
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Hi everyone, It is awful the pain you are experiencing. I would first and foremost get a female OB/Gyn. Men Dr. don't have a clue what we are going through. I also have experienced this but mildly and a few problems with my Bladder and UTI's. I got some Nature's Bounty Triple Strength Cranberry Fruit 1680 mg plus Vitamin C. If you have any symptoms of UTI's this stuff really works and pretty fast. In addition, I also take Omega 3's 2000 mg., Vitamin D3 2000 mg., Calcium w/ Vitamin D 1200 mg. and last but not least Botanic Choice Thyroid Complex.

I know it's alot of pills , but I feel so much better in general. I just had fasting Labwork done, and my Cholesterol levels were excellent as well as my Thyroid and Blood Sugar, so all of these supplements are helping in everyway.

Good Luck and hope you all find some relief!!!

    Bookmark   July 29, 2010 at 11:45AM
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It's probably not atrophy, it's a disease. I always thought my problem was atrophy until one gyn told me differently. She said she has 5 year old patients who have the same thing. When I squatted down to pull weeds or pick up something on the floor I would feel myself tear. It is not curable, everything including surgery has be tried to correct the damage. I use something called clobetasol ointment. No discomfort at all now.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2010 at 4:57PM
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i recently was diagnosed with vaginal atrophy, for the past 4-6 months i have been unable to have sex with my husband. My ob/gyn first thought it was an infection and then when i had tears she said i was having an HSV outbreak. i had been diagnosed with HSV 25 yrs prior and had never had an outbreak that lasted 3 wks but i went along with the treatment that didn't releave the symptoms. Once things cleared up i tried to have sex and was sore for 3 weeks. A friend mentioned that maybe i had become allergic to my husbands semen so we tryed to have sex with a protection which only made things worse. I went to my ob and told her how much pain i was in during and after sex and she examined me and told me that due to my having a complete hysterectomy over 10 years ago that my vaginal area was similar to a women in her late 60's, the dryness and shrinkage would only get worse if we did not treat it now and she did recommend that once the cream started working to use it more to help keep the muscles and skin flexible. she has started me on premarin cream along with my taking premarin pills as a HRT. I am hopeful that this helps. The pain and soreness has made it difficult to sit for long periods of time, to wear panty liners or even underwear. I am open to any other suggestions that can help to alleviate this pain.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2011 at 12:42PM
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I know this blog is about vaginal atrophy but there is also mention of frequent UTIs which also seem to follow this condition. I found a wonderful cure about 10 years ago for the UTIs. I am now struggling with the atrophy at age 64. Order a product called Clear Tract by Discovery Nutrition. I have used the powder form and it works like a dream. It is now available on Amazon.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2011 at 9:31PM
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I can relate to many of the post reagarding the atrophy, I had a severe problem with atrophy and thought the decrease in my premarin was causing all the issues, I would tear and have severe pain when having sex, dryness (where I need lots of lubrication lotions) and sex was not enjoyable, when not able to get wet, doesn't do alot for romance. I did talk to by GYN and he gave me estrace cream, let me tell you ladies this is a miracle cream, I used 1.5 - 2 grams 3 times a week for 3 weeks and then 2 times a week and am now down to once a week, i can get wet without lubrication and there is absolutely no pain whatsoever, no tearing or soreness, I do believe it has even helped with the sex drive. I think all the positives out weigh the negatives, had I not started thia program I think I would have been sexless for the rest of my life. Give it a shot what do you have to loss.......side effects hey with all of the chemicals is water and food and pesticides this is at least prcoess in a lab. Try it please it really works........Good is good and to get wet and drip as we do in our younger years it is fabulous....I did have a hysterectomy 20 years ago so this just goes along with all of that.....Good luck ladies, glad I could share my positive story, I do get sore from too much sex but a little vitamin E oil rubbed on clears up the sorenes within a day and your ready to go again, but the foreplaay helps to.....let me know how it doctor is male and just wants to all male doctors are not bad...Get with the program or find a doctor that will prescribe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Good Luck

    Bookmark   April 5, 2011 at 11:37PM
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I just stumbled on this thread. It is so sad to see the pain that so many people are having. My understanding is that Vit. E is a miracle in restoring the vagina in this situation. I have not tried it because I am so out of a relationship for the past many years- but I quite believe it because a few years ago before I separated from my husband, when this started and I had no idea of the reason, I used vit E at the vaginal entrance to ease the burning and pain. It indeed worked wonders overnight. Repeatedly. So I can believe it works interiorly also. I am about to try it as I am about to enter into a relationship with my estranged husband. They also sell them in low doses in a coconut oil base as a suppository. Carlson's Labs. Any health store should have. God bless you ladies.

    Bookmark   September 3, 2011 at 8:16PM
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I posted in the thread below this, titled something about a race. It explains what may be wrong. The disease Lichen Sclerosis is usually diagnosed as atrophy. Every doc I saw called it atrophy even gyns. I hope it is not your problem, it's not curable.

    Bookmark   September 3, 2011 at 10:31PM
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I am considering entering into a relationship after 13 years of enforced abstinence. I have been trying some of the above suggestions and an apparatus to try and open myself up in preparation. Every time I do this I end up with a uti. I have been very gentle(mainly because of the pain) and am worried that when the real thing arrives in May I may not be able to do anything. Help! My doctor has prescribed an oestrogen cream I have been using for weeks but so far I am still in pain.I have tried various vaginal lubricants and wondered if any one has tried the the DHEA inserted vaginally.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2012 at 4:22AM
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If you are getting urinary tract infections from an apparatus, the apparatus is contaminated and/or you are using it wrong....

    Bookmark   January 27, 2012 at 4:36PM
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I could not believe how many of you were describing my situaltion! I have been married almost 40yrs and enjoyed an active sex life but after being treated for breast cancer (lumpectomy/chemo/rad/anti-hormone treatment) I have severe pain vaginally. My husband has been great but I know he has needs too. Estrogen is a no-go for me and so I live close to a jar of is the only thing that provides lasting comfort. I think this is an area of ignorance in the medical field. We do need more options.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2012 at 7:10PM
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Vaginal cream works to keep me from vaginal atrophy. I use Premarin cream. It also helps keep me from UTIs! And lichen sclerosis is supposed to be incurable, however, I haven't been bothered by it for over 25 years. And! If you are diagnosed w it, the treatment is testosterone cream-- which will definitely increase your libidinal drive!
I'm 62, had a hysterectomy 15 years ago and have been fighting hot flashes ever since. Sometimes I use HRTs, then I get off for a while. Right now I'm using remiferin ( 6 weeks) and just started maca root capsules. Surely I can find something that will stop these hot flashes! Best to all!

    Bookmark   November 9, 2012 at 7:43PM
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Five weeks ago I went to my GYN for my annual checkup and pap smear. She noticed I had a cervical polyps (benign polyps which is normal for "women my age"). Immediately after she removed it, I instantly experienced vaginal atrophy. One theory I have is that I had a bad reaction to the silver nitrate used to cauterize the wound created from the removal of the polyps. I am very hypersensitive to meds so that is the only thing I can think of. I am completely distraught from this. I have had a normal, healthy vagina with absolutely no symptoms of atrophy prior to the procedure. I am trying to find a dr who can help determine what went wrong so that an appropriate treatment regimen can be identified. The dr who performed the procedure completely dismissed me and said that it must have happened earlier but I had not noticed it. How can she say that!?!? How can you not notice a complete disappearance of labia, shrinkage of clitoris, extreme vaginal dryness. I am only 44 and still menstruating on a monthly basis. I have always had a healthy sex life and libido. The libido is still very much intact. This should NOT have happened! I've seen a couple of doctors already but they can't make sense of it, especially since I'm still menstruating. I googled and found The Center for Vulvovaginal Disorders Since this is the weekend, I need to wait until Monday to schedule an appointment.
If anyone can shed any light into this, I would very, very much appreciate it. I can't stop crying over this. I am not eating, sleeping, and am very much depressed over this.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2012 at 4:42AM
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Is this post still active?
I'm 59 and my wife is 63, we have been very happily married for 32 years. About 5 years ago my wife started suffering from Vaginal Atrophy and was put on creams, pills and the Estring. She was already post-menopause. We still had intercourse but it was quite painful to her.

Two years ago, she noticed a lump in her abdomen and had the good sense to go to her doctor right away. A Sonogram showed a 12 cm tumor. She decided to have a complete hysterectomy and it was discovered she had stage 1C Ovarian Cancer, which meant we found it just in time. She still went through 18 weeks of chemotherapy. I am most happy to report that her tests have shown absolutely no presence of cancer and we are SO grateful!

Now, the downside to this is her body no longer produces any Estrogen at all and doctors have prohibited her from using or taking any Estrogen for fear of bringing the cancer back. As a result, she has no libido and her Vaginal Atrophy is truly severe. When I try to put some Replens into her using a glove it is very painful and I can only put one finger in and move it only a little bit. It does not look promising at all and we have come to the conclusion that even if she went through a great deal of pain to stretch her big enough for intercourse, it will still be a very painful experience to her.

We have talked this over and have adapted our lives to having a life without intercourse. It takes LOT of communication! The most important hurdles are mental (expectations), not physical. If you would like, I will talk more about what we have done. At this point I just wanted to tell everyone that Vaginal Atrophy is for real and in extreme cases this is what can happen. There is nothing we could to have prevented it and again, we are both joyful she has survived her cancer and that is the most important thing.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2013 at 2:56PM
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I am 54yrs old and for about a year now have been having vaginal atrophy. I have tearing if i move wrong even. Burning,itching,and painfull intercourse and very severe for days after. Lubricants did not help.My doc will not give me estrogen because my daughter had breast cancer. So i got Estriol cream for on-line. It helped some but then i got some Endocrine Mender (on-line) a enzyme for my thyriod which works on all your hormone system. My hot flashes had lessened from the estriol cream. When I started taking the Endocrine Mender the hot flashes increased for a couple weeks but are now almost gone and my dryness and tearing are greatly improved. I use the cream daily and the endocrine mender as they say to. Also i had alot of joint pain that is gone. I have been using the cream for 6mths and both for the last 20days. I hope this will help some of you because I kow how miserable I WAS.Best wishes to everyone.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 8:05PM
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This is to add to my last message. It is now 23 days on the enzyme and all the tearing and white scar looking tissue is gone. I am so happy. BioAnue Endocrine Mender is the product I am taking.GOOD LUCK to ALL you ladies.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 10:28PM
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This is to add to my last message. It is now 23 days on the enzyme and all the tearing and white scar looking tissue is gone. I am so happy. BioAnue Endocrine Mender is the product I am taking.GOOD LUCK to ALL you ladies.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 10:33PM
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This is to add to my last message. It is now 23 days on the enzyme and all the tearing and white scar looking tissue is gone. I am so happy. BioAnue Endocrine Mender is the product I am taking.GOOD LUCK to ALL you ladies.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 10:34PM
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Cruise321 I am sorry to hear about your wifes diagnoses but glad it was all nipped i the bud in its early stages and also the other problems with this painful condition ...

I am much the same but was told it was " Lack of use " use it or lose it is what I was told .. I did get Vagifem to help the stinging but I know that penetration is no longer possible I struggle with the vagifem fial and its only narrow
My Problem apparently stemmed from not having s*x at all
My husband has not been interested for years in any sexual contact so I am now left in this position , willing to try to see if I can accept the penetration but he's not willing to try .
neither do I get offered oral I'm pretty much going to remain this tight and sore - so many changes during the menopause ..but in my own case I think it was as Doc said use or lose
I do hpe your own situation will improve , it could .
Yes Atrophy is very real and all with different reasons thanks for sharing ..I'm glad you have found a way to improvise - it is good to talk & share

    Bookmark   March 7, 2013 at 3:40PM
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I self-diagnosed myself as having VA...I hit the full M in September 2012 and seems like an avalanche of unwelcome body changes started - including a pain at the outer rim of the vajayjay- even without sexual contact. And I had the MOST PAINFUL encounter with my longtime partner.
Anyway, I have found blessed relief by using Carlson's Vitamin-E suppositories. AND I use DHEA 5mg vaginally. I made my own DHEA suppositories by emptying out a capsule of DHEA powder onto a dish and rolling the Carlsons in the powder, then inserting them. One DHEA capsule gives me two "doses".

I do the DHEA thing in the morning, but use Carlsons by itself most nights. You can cut one Carlsons into 2-3 doses. I'd start with using at least half, until the tenderness fades.

Carlsons is very oily, so wear a pad if you need to be discreet. Use Dawn dishwashing liquid to get the oil stains out of cloth.
Took about 4 days for the burning sensation to completely subside with Carlsons.

For those without a partner, or even those with, I read that inserting "anything" in the vajayjay can help ward of use your finger or get a toy.

When I first started the Carlson's, it took about 4 days before using a pinky-finger sized toy was not extremely painful. Now the pinky-size goes in painlessly as long as I remember to use Carlsons regularly.

I've had two very successful and painless encounters with my partner. YAY!

I've not noticed any bad effects. I have an annual with my gyny in June and will discuss these things with her, but I am staying the course for now.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 3:56PM
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Wanted to add that I insert a piece of Carlsons almost every night...but I also insert a whole Carlson's about 10-20 minutes before being with my partner.
Works well!

    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 1:29PM
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Thanks for that information Cube1067..I have not heard of Carlsons are they suppositories and where can one purchase them ?
And if so how do you use them you have to insert them quite deeply like a tampon or even further ..sorry if that is too personal - its just that I have a problem with dryness and fear of pain due to Atrophy that any tips help
Many Thanks

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 12:22PM
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Yes, it is a suppository. Full name of product is

KEY-E Carlson Suppositories with Natural Vitamin E.

I get them via Amazon.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 7:18PM
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Thank you Cube1067 I will check amazon
They sound the ideal solution if naturally oily

    Bookmark   March 14, 2013 at 10:04AM
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Ladies none of this will do any good if it is Lichen Sclerosis. It will not go away, the right meds will make you comfortable, no tearing with movement. But you will never be able to have sex again. The first GYN that diagnosed this disease on me said she has 5 year old girls with the same disease.

Doctors all say it's atrophy, even 2 urologists. In October I went to a urologist because I had blood in my urine. I explained that he would not be able to do the scope without cutting me. I could tell he didn't know believe me. He told me he would have to do a pelvic for proof for the insurance company to put me out for the scope. When he did the pelvic, he said "I see what you mean". He had never heard of it before. He had to tear the skin just to do the pelvic. I am lucky to be able to urinate, it's all grown over.

    Bookmark   March 16, 2013 at 10:30PM
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So sorry for your rare condition...

However, for those who are experiencing more typical atrophy, or acute dryness...try the Carlson's. It's a small monetary investment and yields good results for lots of people.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2013 at 2:43PM
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What exactly is the benefit of the DHEA capsule ?
I have managed to purchase the Carlsons and have been using them on a regular basis and I'm now going to start halfing them so as to get two inserts out of one
I would appreciate knowing the benefit of the Capsule Powder - many thanks

    Bookmark   April 12, 2013 at 6:39PM
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So glad to have you! I can't believe how hidden this issue is and how difficult to find relief. I tried replens, estriol, estrogyn, an e ring, suppositories of estrogen and now progesterone - dhea. I still have burning and irritation like a yeast infection but it's not. Intercourse is not impossible like it was, but I still tear and spot bleed after. It is still painful to have intercourse and I find it just about impossible to have an orgasm. I'm so frustrated on every level. It is affecting my sense of identity - feeling like I'm finished. Reading other entries - I'm wondering if you have any info on Endocrine Mender and KEy- E Carlson suppositories. What are they made of and can I try them with other suppositories?
thanks for listening

    Bookmark   April 18, 2013 at 11:04PM
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I am in exactly the same boat as you and even find the fial of Vagifem difficut t insert - I have bough the KEy- E Carlson suppositories and they are easy enough to insert but to date there is still this dryness with like stabbing sharp pains ... I cannot possible have intercourse
I don't know whether to try DHEA and in what form to try I've tried everything else ... is it a safe option ? I'm sorry j60 I cannot help I'm on here to try and find help too ...

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 12:24PM
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glad I checked back here...did not think anyone was reading this.....

Don't know how I stumbled upon research about DHEA...but bottom line, DHEA applied directly to the vaginal walls shows evidence of making those walls more resilient and elastic.

DHEA is best absorbed through the mucus membranes of the body....meaning you want to apply it to the vajay gets lost if you swallow it, and mostly goes to the liver if you swallow it.

I buy 5 mg DHEA capsules from my doc-recommended pharmacy..... i open the capsule, empty the powder onto a dish, and roll 1/2 of a Carlsons in the powder, then insert the Carlsons into my vajay.

I did this almost every I do it maybe 3 times a week.
All I can say is that penetration (AND sustained penetration) is painless for me now.

I also take a 5 MG pill of sublingual DHEA ......I just like the fact that DHEA can make skin more youthful...thought I'd try taking small dose.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 1:46PM
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Thank you very much for the ifo on DHEA Cube1067 this is all very useful indeed - Are yu allowed to say on forum what make brand yu use with the suppository and also what brand/make of 5mg yu use orally ? I am in the uk , don't know if you are if not perhaps I wouldn't be able to purchase the same makes as you use but obviously would like to as its obviously proven to work for yourself
We all want to try and remain youthful skin and vajay- I'd love to be able to have the moisture back in my vajay its really uncomfortable at times = so any intimacy is a no go at the moment ...has bee for some time unfortunately
thanks for sharing your experience I really appreciate yu posting about yur own - thanks again

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 3:08PM
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i get my suppositories of dhea made at a Canadian compounding pharmacy. prescription by a Dr. whose specialty is sexual health. (I found using them 5 times a week rather than 7 has helped with soreness on my vulva.)

this Dr., female, was the one who has been trying the various medications i mentioned in may last entry.
My GP and gynecologist didn't have this unfo.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2013 at 2:09AM
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Thanks for posting more info about DHEA
there is no such clinic or in my area that would precribe such a thing so I would have to source it independantly which could be difficult if Canadian
Its all very interesting and something I'd like to try
Many Thanks

    Bookmark   May 10, 2013 at 1:33PM
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Hi Ladies, glad tohave found you. Started meno about 14 mths ago. Have been on bio's for about a month. I do notice a sense of well being. Rotary cuff pain has improved 80% and I have more energy. Libido not yet back, although I feel like it eventually may be back. I have two questions, anybody ever hear of hereditary low throid that does NOT show up in routine thyroid testing?? Also, I have not had relations in a yr and a half, would I know if I had vaginal astrophy? My vagina (outer) feels the same.

I dont want to give up on finding someone, but dont want to be surprised with this horrible pain you ladies have shared. I have a nine yr old daughter, when she gets older I will encourage her to avoid this situation if she can afford it. Hopefully woman can have elective surgery, remove an ovary, after having children, and replant in peri or meno. I know it is now offered to some cancer pts. pre-chemo. Meno was a major shock to all my systems!!

    Bookmark   June 1, 2013 at 12:24AM
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I want to thank you ladies for all of your comments. I have been really struggling with va. I have no ovaries, i have tried premarin, which caused pre cancer cells in my breasts. I am having a hard time with sex because of the pain. I am going to try the suppositories which I started already, but did not know I could use it on a daily basis. I saw the DHEA and others, but because of my situation, I don't want to try anything with hormones in it. I am drinking plenty of water, I have been researching this and I don't think I am done researching, but plenty of fluids and more intercourse mentioned that will help also.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2013 at 2:27PM
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Finally others with the same issues. I not only have VA but also UTI's constantly. I am newly married, and my husband is so good about what is going on. I did not know what I was experiencing until after we had our first sexual encounter. I just turned 50, and I am post meno. I have been given Estrace but was told to only use it three times a week at the lowest dose. I have read women here say there is a two week starter, then the maintainence afterwards. I will try that to see if that helps. If I can find relief from the UTI's and the VA that would be wonderful.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2013 at 9:17PM
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Hi, everyone, reading your posts have really been educational for me. I had damaged ovaries which they took out and after that vaginal atrophy came. I tried premarin, which cause pre cancer cells in my one breast. Went to doctor they had no clue. So I have been trying this and trying that. I have finally found a good combination for me. I am using Replens with Vitamin E Suppository, along with hydrating and taking plenty of fish oil/coconut oil. Sex is now awesome for me. I am so happy because I now have a happy me and happy husband. Ladies you are your own guinea pigs. Keep trying until you find out what is right for you!

    Bookmark   June 23, 2013 at 7:44AM
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It is truly amazing how many women are suffering from this, and many don't even know there are possibilities out there that might help. I started using vagifem and premarin about a month ago. I have not noticed remarkable difference but I was able to "grin and bear it" once with hubster. It only hurts in the beginning. Thank God I have a female doctor, so for all of those who don't I'd say get one ! I have also had 3 surgeries in the past to rebuild my pelvic floor as everything was falling out... I thought maybe these were post surgical issues and just something to deal with. Here's to getting more answers, more help, and having that sex life we should be able to have !

    Bookmark   June 27, 2013 at 5:02PM
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Good luck to you Louie59. (and to all of us looking frantically for answers).

I tried Estrace and after feeling measurably better following using it for 2 months I had mild spotting. The gyno insisted I then have a sonnogram which revealed that the lining of my endometrium has become "a bit thick."

Now I must have the dreaded endometrial biopsy, which having had 3 in my life thus far, I am NOT looking forward to.
(especially in this dry condition, where even an exam is insanely painful).

I stopped the estrace immediately and the spotting stopped.
I wonder now if it has caused a longterm problem.
I feel like SCREAMING. Do I now have cancer because this "safe" cream stimulated cell growth? Or did it simply overstimulate the cells to shed (hence the spotting?). One of the litany of side effects is indeed "unexplained bleeding or spotting" but we are all desperate to fix this terrible problem that most of us just sign and try....

I will say that I am very "natural" and don't even take aspirin for a headache, but I was driven to use the Estrace by my complete frustration, pain and overriding sense of LOSS.

All of us (I am 55) at this age deserve SO MUCH MORE. This is not only a medical condition but a spiritual one. It wrecks havoc on one's sense of self, on a spontaneous life and on our important relationships.

No one should have to be satisfied to "grin and bear it" AFTER using a preparation that also offers frightening side effects.

I am scheduled to have this biopsy done in a week. Previously, I had it 3x during peri-menopause, when my periods were irregular. I didn't take any pain meds (never have) but I am so miserable right now that I asked for a percocet to have before the procedure. I'm hoping I don't end up with side effects from that!

I wish none of us were in this state of body or mind. If I ever happen upon anything that helps, believe me I will be first to share!

    Bookmark   June 29, 2013 at 5:33PM
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Bosco176, I just found out I need the same test. since I already went throught this test once before I flat out refused to be awake for it. My doctor told me that that actually works out better for her. She will put me to sleep, do the biopsy and take a look around for polyps and perform a D&C while she is there. I will have to lay out more money for this then if I just had the biopsy but my doctor said more than likely I would need the additional things done anyway so she is down with it. thank gosh!!

I am now using Femring every 3 months and I love it! I looked the thickening of the lining up on the internet and it looks like this can be caused by taking birth control pills for long periods of time. I was on birth control pills for 30 years, I am now 55 soon to be 56. It makes since to me.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2013 at 6:11PM
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Thanks for your reply cindy57. I am sorry you too are being affected by this type of misery. I like that you took control and told your doctor to just knock you out.

Like you, having had this vile procedure before, I know what it's like and am so stressed.

I don't need the additional d + c though and have actually never been "knocked out" in my life; so that would cause me EVEN MORE ANXIETY.

I don't understand why they don't "twilight" people, like for a colonoscopy....I know this is a quick procedure (or should be) but nontheless, it's a doozy.

For me though, since I've only had this occur after menopause when I've used Estrace for 2 solid months, I wonder why this test has to be done at all. I mean, the Estrace is known to cause spotting as a side affect. I don't understand why all I have to do is just STOP USING IT! (which I did).

Sigh. Feeling very stressed. Procedure is a week off. Enough time to really work myself up : ((

Thanks though for taking the time to answer me. I feel less alone since finding this forum.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2013 at 9:39PM
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I'm sorry you've both had to cope with this test along with all the other menopausal symptoms ..its very stressful for you indeed .

I had a D&C many years ago but of course under general anesthesia , I don't think I could cope with any of those procedeures without it , so I hope you are allowed it too .
Those Symptoms sure get us all down..I am so dry at times that I feel sharp stabs when I'm walking ... I use the KEy- E Carlson suppositories and they do help but have never tried the DHEA capsule as per suggestion in previous post would be helpful to find out the brand so that one could try it , I know I can't/won't get it from my GP so its trial and error with anything that will help
Sex life is on hold anyway and has been for a long time sadly .... the thought terrifies me :-(
Good luck to those of you who have procedures to go through .

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 3:39PM
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I am beginning to wonder if I have this. I am only 38, but ever since they took my left ovary, and part of my right ovary, I have been having hot flashes, wacky periods and lack of wetness down there. I take BCP to try and supplement my hormones, and it helps regulate my periods and the hot flashes have improved greatly. But sex is painful for me. I get red, raw and it burns. sometimes I need an ice pack after. Lubricants don't last very long and can be irritating. My gynecologist thinks it has to do with the size of my husband, who is quite large- and he made some bedroom suggetions to increase my level of arousal- but I simply can't respond like I used to. Even insterting a tampon is impossible now. I don't know if this is what I have or not since I don't seem to be complaining of such severe symptoms, but I do fear sex now and I get frustrated at the pain. No matter what we do it just seems like I feel torn up down there. We have to be so careful and then I am in pain for the rest of the night.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2013 at 2:51PM
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Hi- I'm 60. About a year or so ago, I experienced a feeling of having been scraped or something from intercourse, and my dr. diagnosed V.A. and gave me a perscription for estrogen cream.
However, that was too expensive!
So, I read Susun S. Weed's book (New) Menopausal Years- the wise woman way, and found natural treatments for V.A..
I have since been using, for about 4-5 months, her recommendation of:
Motherwort herb
Chickweed herb
Oatstraw herb.
I try to take them twice a day. It has seemed to help quite a bit. I do still feel somewhat "sensitive" when first penetrated, but I don't have the actual damage afterward that I had initially.
It may be that I could use more (she doesn't really say how much) and it would get even better.
What I like is that all of those are also good for many other issues we women have; I recommend either getting her book, or researching about each of those herbs.
I am also going to look into wild yam, since that is "estrogenic".
I'm thankful for forums like these; keep posting!

    Bookmark   July 16, 2013 at 2:37PM
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“Use it or Lose it” is proving TRUE for me. Been on a two month break from intimacy. Did not use the Carlson’s or the DHEA in those 2 months. Tried to self-pleasure on Sunday and it was immediately painful down there at the opening! I was so shocked because the pain had disappeared for me.

So I am re-starting my Carlsons/DHEA regimen tonight, which is: Use ½ Carlsons before bed every night, AND, every other night, coat the ½ Carlsons with DHEA powder before insertion. It took about 3 weeks of this treatment for things to improve for me last time. I did read that DHEA likes a “morning” application, so a couple of times a week, in addition to the night time treatment, I insert a coated 1/3-piece of Carlsons in the morning and I wear a panti-liner. During the “treatment”, I use “toys” to test the waters down there. I have a small finger sized toy and a large life-like toy. I start with the small…..and as things get better, I graduate to the large. Last time, my pain disappeared completely and stayed gone when I had relations regularly. Hope to have the same luck. And this time, I will not stop treatment even if my relationship fails.

Brand of DHEA I use, found on Amazon, Douglass Labs 5 mg capsules. I want the capsule so that I can separate it and get to the powder.

(FYI or TMI) I also insert a Carlsons at the start of moments with my partner, because by the time he penetrates, the insert has melted nicely and adds to my comfort. My current partner is stingy on foreplay for my benefit so Carlson’s is very necessary. Hope to remedy that with either a change in his ways OR, more likely, a new man.

Also, regarding DHEA, I take a 2.5mg tablet sublingually daily. I cut a 5mg tablet in half. I think it supports my libido, and maybe it is all in my mind…but I feel better when I take it. I am happy with the boost I get from 2.5 mg. I don’t think MORE is necessarily BETTER with DHEA. So don’t run out and start popping 25mg or 50mg, even though you will find that on the shelves.

    Bookmark   August 19, 2013 at 5:21PM
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Thank you so much for all your info on the vitamin E suppositories and especially the DHEA '"homemade" ones. I suffer from acute atrophy. I had a hysterectomy and bi-lateral oophorectomy at age 43 with, at first, no HRT due to endometriosis and then minimal HRT. All this time I was not sexually active (not my choice). Then a decade or more goes by and the new study comes out and my GYN says I am now late 50's and need to come off of it.
I must add here that I also have been self-cathing intermittently for 10 yrs as my bladder is severely dysfunctional and does not empty nor have good any muscle tone etc. It is the only way to not have chronic uti's for me. And also gives me back the ability to have a life! Because I don't have to urinate every 10 minutes.
Well, I slowly came off the estrogen and then a whole host of problems set in. My urethra was becoming mutilated from self cathing because there are estrogen receptors in there for us women that keep it healthy. I was becoming like raw meat and tearing near the clitoris or on the base of the entrance of the vagina for little to no reason. Sometimes because of straining when moving my bowels; sometimes because I moved wrong. Sometimes just spontaneously.
I also wore a pessary because of a cystocele and rectocele and would develop a sore from the pressure point at the top of the vagina and I couldn't remove it regularly, for cleaning, like I was supposed to without tearing myself (again on the outside vulva area). I was put on premarin cream and it did help to a decent degree.
I had just been widowed at age 53 when all this lovely stuff began to happen. who will want me?
Bad enough wasn't having sex with my husband (for reasons that would take too long to discuss). I felt like a reject and a freak and gave up on ever being sexual again.

Then I re-met an old friend bringing with it the chance of sex again. We had "a moment" way back in the day. I went in to my GYN and said I want my estrogen back. I don't care about the risks, they are not as bad as dying sexless from the age of 40 on up!! It had been 22 yrs. since I had sex! I was not going to lose this chance.
She said fine and I went on the estriol patch. That brought back my libido and response somewhat decently and helped a bit of the VAD but not enough. Especially as he was big on having a "round two" after a bit of a rest in between.
So I needed to address the vulva issues. I had read up on testosterone replacement in women. I asked to give that a go. GYN said yes but outlined the side effects and said that some don't go away even if I stop the hormone. Well! boy did that help with everything!! I had restored vitality and sensation returned top to bottom of my body (didn't' realize how much I had lost until I got it back) and my vagina was in great shape and the vulva was much, much better. Still was a bit sore after but, our lives only allow us time enough for an encounter once every 3-4 weeks anyway. so I had time to heal in between.
But I started growing hair in places I had never had it, sparsely but still. And I started losing the hair on my head!! I had two other occasions of hair loss before the testosterone but it seemed to grow back in about 6 months although not all of it. This time was worse plus breakage! I am now wearing hairpieces as I cannot be seen in public as you can see my scalp on the top and sides very easily. My gyn didn't think it related but my PCP did and then when seeing my dermatologist he had absolutely no doubt it was the testosterone. He did agree to run blood tests to rule out other causes but was 90 % sure of the cause and if I wanted any chance of it growing back I should stop it.

Good grief! Now I have to choose between having hair or having a satisfying sex life after 22 years without it!! How do I choose that? So I started researching and it brought me here and I am so glad it did. I had already asked my GYN about vitamin E suppositories and she said no, it would throw off the balance of the vagina. I could use it topically on the vulva but rather I didn't insert. My main problem is the vulva tearing and the fragility of the skin in that whole area with it cracking and splitting for no reason and the ITCHING AND BURNING ATTACKS I get! As someone said, its like a bad yeast infection but its not! I started cutting back using the testosterone cream only every other night and sure enough I started to split again and the here comes the itching and burning attacks.
I no longer wear the pessary as I can't take a chance of tearing when I remove it to have sex. But my bladder hangs just low enough that when I do my 1/2 walks every day it rubs and causes an attack of itching and burning sometimes.
I think the male Docs ( PCP & Derm) I see think I am just using the "tes" for libido only, but that is the least of it. It is the VAD that is the main thing.
I would like to know if anyone using the DHEA has experienced hair loss as it does list it as a side effect? I am thinking of using small slivers of the Vitamin E suppositories rolled in the dhea and just barely insert it vaginally so most of it will run across the vulva. But I am afraid of going bald too!! I do want to come off the testosterone but would very much like to replace it with DHEA.
Back in July I actually, for the first time in decades, got back my "O"....granted it was a mini one but still!! I have been able to now and then bring them on myself on my own as my GYN had suggested, way back when the possibility of sex loomed, to start using a vibrator regularly.

My "friend" knows nothing of all this except I need lubrication & I use my toy (he is 3 yrs younger than me). We have a FWB type relationship so not headed for marriage or even co-habitation and I am afraid of losing what I do have with him. But our last encounter I was bleeding a bit afterward when I went to urinate and it took much longer to heal this time.
I am sorry for such a long post but I just needed to really vent about all this.
thanks for listening ladies. And any feedback from others using DHEA is greatly appreciated!

    Bookmark   August 31, 2013 at 6:51PM
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Cube1067 thank you so much for a most informative post once again ..I have checked amazon for the DHEA but unfortunately I am unable to get those you mention
"Douglass Labs 5 mg capsules" on Amazon UK
Can you recommend a similar capsule ?

I hope that the suppositories and DHEA will help you to enjoy the intimate side of a relationship again
I too have been without for much longer than you quoted and it looks like I will be for the rest of my days but I still want to be comfortable going about my daily activities ..the sharp dry pains of atrophy makes daily activities unbearable at times
I'd love to have some intimacy again that would be a bonus , so for the moment I'll keep up the suppositories until I find the DHEA mentioned in the above post ..I am willing to try anything
I know being Celebate ( through no fault of my own ) doesn't help the dryness , they say to use it or lose it and I believe it ... some advise Vibrators but so many to choose from one just doesn't know... I know that lack of sensation now would mean it would have to be quite strong but little advise on " Toy" sites to say which would be best for a post menopausal dry celebate woman who would occasionaly like to DIY
This site forum is very helpful
Thank you all - LE

    Bookmark   September 6, 2013 at 4:09PM
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Wow, wow, wow!!! I found a HOME!! I had no idea the garden web had this forum. I'm a regular on the Kitchen Table forum here. Here's my story:

I had a total hysterectomy 13 years ago and have been on a roller coaster ever since!! I tried it all with oral HRT including with testosterone. All at once everyone flipped out and said I had to quit HRT. I slowly got off of them with Bioidenticals and then got off of the Bioidenticals as well. I gradually lost all of the symptoms except lack of libido and dryness. The dryness got so bad that it was inflamed and hurting all the time and sex was impossible. (I finally got why men marry younger women, which doesn't make us older gals feel any better.) I live close to the Mayo clinic and went to a lady gyno there. She said I had the worst case of vaginal atrophy she had ever seen. She said the best thing was Estriol cream but that she couldn't give me an rx for it because the only usage that Mayo approved it for was for Multiplesclerosis. SERIOUSLY??? I went online, though and found a place in California that made Estriol suppositories. I also see a Naturopathic Dr. and she told me to be very careful of all hormones because MDs tend to overprescribe the dosage. The suppositories worked like a dream and I used just 1/2 of one 2 times a week. I've been using them for two or three years. Somehow I ran out without ordering more and I couldn't find the box. NOW I CAN'T FIND THEM ANYWHERE online!!! I have looked and looked and looked. :( I can't remember the brand, either. DANGIT!!! What happened? Did the FDA crack down or something? So frustrating!!! So now I'm back to the drawing board and just ordered the Vitamin E suppositories and DHEA capsules to try. Thanks so much!!! It just blows my mind that they can't solve this problem for us. Typical male oriented science I guess Grrrr! I'm only 57 though and I'm not giving up on this part of my life. Thanks again.

    Bookmark   October 3, 2013 at 12:12PM
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Sadly I can't seem to find the DHEA capsules as used so successfully by Cube on any UK sites ..I fimd the Vit E Suppositores freely available
Have any of the Menopausal members used DIM-plus ?

I intend to keep looking for the DHEA capsules as they sound Ideal for the Atrophy - Thanks all for posting such useful info ..

    Bookmark   October 6, 2013 at 8:57AM
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@ LEModel, can you access or Those are two sites where I order most of my vitamins/supplements.

    Bookmark   October 9, 2013 at 3:09PM
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Hi bigbaby
I can accces both of those sites unfortunately they are American and I am in the UK
I am also registered with Amazon UK but hey don't stock the same Douglass Lab's DHEA as Cube has suggested using they do hvae the Tablets but not the capsules that are required to dip the Vit E suppository in
Many Thanks for posting

    Bookmark   October 9, 2013 at 4:37PM
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I am in the UK also. I wondered if we could just mush up (pestle and mortre) the tablets to get a powder? There is something called Enzymatic Therapy Youthful You DHEA, 60 Ultracaps 5 Mg. This is the right dose but it doesn't say what an "Ultracap" is. I have a postal address in the US so maybe we could share and order going from the US Amazon to that address and I'll post some UK members theirs out to them. Might work out more expensive because of the postage from US so perhaps UK trial of our amazon DHEA (its the right dose) might work?

On the plus side to those who may have Lichen Schlerosus as well, if the condition is caught early enough, you'll be symptom free with the steroid cream. I often wonder if there is a link between lack of Oestrogen and this condition too?

My problems are that my urethra seems to be more prominent now that the vaginal and labial tissues have shrunk. The friction from intercourse may be the course for my current UTI. I apply topical Gynest Cream (Estriol 0.01%) to protect the protuberant urethra but keep getting urethritis after sex. I don't want to give up as I love it (and my hubby). However, I'm beginning to be afraid of the outcome of any encounter now.

I was wondering about having a ring fitted so that I can have continuous doses of Oestrogen. My GP says she has never prescribed one before. Anyone have any advice about the ring as opposed to pessaries and cream? Is it stronger in dose does anyone know please?

I think some of the tearing symptoms people are describing sound more like LS. Since I have both I can say that the LS causes tearing and "tags" where the skin joins and BOTH conditions cause thinning but so far my VA hasn't caused tears.

Here is a link that might be useful: UK DHEA on AMAZON

    Bookmark   October 15, 2013 at 9:48AM
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I am also in the UK & am so glad I have found this forum. I suffer from LS & have done for many years since my 20s but it has only gave me problems since the menopause. After reading all of the above I def have VA & just reading others experiences & advice has been extremely helpful & gave me some hope. Why is this not talked about more I feel sure alot of women are suffering in silence. I do have steriod cream for my LS which I use very sparingly that keeps any discomfort at bay but otherwise I have only used the usual lubricants to help with sex and they have not been that successful. I am going look at some of the suggestions from previous posts in the hope that they may help me.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2013 at 8:18PM
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I just found this forum and I'm so glad I did! I did not have sex for about 6 years and I tried to last night and ouch! It was very painful! I never thought this would happen to me! But it has and I have read all the posts here and went straight to Vitacost and ordered the Carlson's vitamin e and some DHEA. I am hopeful that it will help me. I really think if I had continued to have sex, this would not have happened. But, here I am and I am willing to try whatever it takes to fix this! Thanks for all the help ladies!

    Bookmark   November 8, 2013 at 12:28AM
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Wow!! Am I glad I found this forum. I feel like I am on the start of some of these problems here or really don't know how bad my situation is at the moment. About 2 1/2 months ago I started with very intense vaginal burning that kept me in my apt sitting in my underwear or none at all to try and relieve the irritation. I went to a walk in clinic trying to find the cheapest place to go. I am going through a divorce and money is so tight. So I started on Estrace cream but I was concerned about the doctor and how severe it was because a pelvic exam was so painful. So eventually I went to a gynecologist after a short time on the cream and somehow he was able to do a pap smear on me. But he decreased my cream down to a maintenance dose which I thought was way too premature. So I just increased it myself according to what I read online. Anyway after more problems a week later I went into another walk in clinic having pain and found out I had a UTI. That was about 6 wks ago. I thought it had gone away but gradually it came back and this Friday I went in again and have another UTI. I am on Vagifem now. I don't think it is working as well as the Estrace. I think it is best for me to go back to the gynecologist. All of this is costing me so much money that I don't have. Thankfully United Way has a prescription assistance program that you can get Estrace I think and I know Vagifem for free if you qualify and don't have insurance. But before I knew I have been paying for it. Sorry this is so long. I am hoping to get this all cleared up. I am not looking to get into a relationship anytime soon but I worry that how can I ever have sex again and be with someone if I can't get control of this problem. It is so frustrating. I have had many health problems but this really 'tops' it!!

    Bookmark   November 11, 2013 at 5:30AM
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Due to vaginal atrophy, my wife experienced discomfort and even pain when we had sex. She resigned herself to the fact that this was just the way it was going to be. I said baloney, and started doing some research. Both of us had done much research several years ago, when she had a breast cancer scare due to taking HRT (Premarin/Provera or Prempro, I forget which.) So by now, she was using natural progesterone cream on a regular basis. But it wasn't helping with the vaginal atrophy.

After a lot of reading and searching, I found that Bezwecken made an E3 vaginal suppository that many women used to find relief from VA. (E3, I learned, referred to which estrogen it was. Estrogen, I learned, is a class name - just like apple. If you want to buy an apple, you have to pick between the many kinds, like Granny Smith, Fuji, Gala, Red Delicious etc. Well, if I understand this right, the main estrogens in a woman's body are E1 - Estrone, E2 - Estradiol, and E3 - Estriol. So these suppositories were Estriol suppositories.) They worked great. But then Bezwecken took them off the market.

So I did some more research, and found that another solution many women were using was vaginal DHEA supppositories. I found a pharmacy on the web, ordered some, and my wife began using them nightly. (They recommended she use them nightly for 12 weeks, to build up the levels to a high enough amount, and then cut down to twice a week.)

But after 10 days, she began to experience itchiness and irritation. After the E3 suppositories were taken off the market, she was using the Carlson Key-E vaginal suppositories. They helped, but not as much as the E3. But since the DHEA suppositories made her experience itchiness and irritation, she resumed using the Carlson Key-E suppositories for a bit. Then she tried to switch back to the DHEA suppositories, but the itchiness and irritation returned.

I emailed her Naturopath, and she said that Bezwecken had reintroduced the E3. Now they're called Hydration Cubes. However, I noticed it's no longer a vaginal supository. Has anyone tried this new version yet?

In the mean time, she's using the Carlson Key-E suppositories. They don't address the arousal lubrication (or lack thereof) issue, like the E3 suppositories did, but they do seem to relieve many of the VA issues.

Her Naturopath ordered some of these Bezwecken Hydration Cubes, which apparently each contain 1mg of E3. We'll see how they work.

Regarding the DHEA vaginal suppositories, and why they seem to irritate my wife, I found this on Wikipedia:

"Some suppositories are made from a greasy base, such as cocoa butter, in which the active ingredient and other excipients are dissolved; this grease will melt at body temperature. Other suppositories are made from a water soluble base, such as polyethylene glycol. Suppositories made from polyethylene glycol are commonly used in vaginal and urethral suppositories. Glycerin suppositories are made of glycerol and gelatin."

Well, I wonder if the base used by this pharmacy is what's irritating my wife. Is anyone using DHEA vaginal suppositories successfully? (And I'm not really comfortable using the approach I read, where someone rolls their Carlson Key-E suppositories in the DHEA powder from emptied capsules. I'm more referring to off-the-shelf suppositories.)

    Bookmark   November 18, 2013 at 12:01PM
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Thank you for all that information James from Colorado

I ave not heard of DHEA suppositories but have now purchased the DHEA as mentioned about from Amazon and was about to start to use it as suggested in a previous post but your concern about the use of this is making me think twice
I do use the Carlson suppositories and they are good ..but I feel I need more and don't wish to go down the HRT route

This is a very informative thread its good to get so much feedback and advice ..I hope peolle keep posting and informing us of their experiences
I would be very interested to learn if the E3 comes back on the market
Thanks to all

    Bookmark   November 18, 2013 at 1:18PM
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LEModel, you're welcome. Just wanted to follow up, and let you know that I did a search on Google for bezwecken hydration cubes and there's at least one seller. This is the newly "re-released" E3. Appears like it's no longer a suppository, but to be applied topically (i.e., by rubbing it on the skin.)

Also, I had some more thoughts on the DHEA suppositories I bought. My wife had no problems with the E3 suppositories, back when they were available, so wondering if it's simply a matter of this particular pharmacy's formula, or method of making them. I may email them and ask what they use for a base (i.e., is it something like cocoa butter, or a water soluble base like polyethylene glycol, or is the base something like glycerin.) I'm really curious if this is what's irritating my wife.

But I heard back from the Naturopath, and she's ordered some of the newly released Bezwecken Hydration Cubes. I'll try to report back what my wife's experience with them is.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2013 at 1:14AM
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I think it may be worth emailing the company that makes the DHEA suppositories to find out exactly what could be causing this allergic reaction for your wife ..they would probably want to know anyway

I might try the DHEA suppositories and see if I have any reaction ...I am of course in the UK so might not be able to get them ..I can get the Carlsons
Thanks Again JamesFromColorado - best wishes

    Bookmark   November 19, 2013 at 3:19AM
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Update - what's in the DHEA suppositories which caused itchiness and irritation for my wife?

I called Bezwecken today, and discovered that the base of the E3 suppository which my wife took (and which was well tolerated by her body before they took them off the market) was cocoa butter and vitamin E.

On the other hand, the base of the DHEA suppositories I recently ordered my wife, but which caused her itchiness and irritation after 10 days, is: Almond oil, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil, and Polyethylene glycol-8 Distearate.

Wow, what a difference. I'm no chemist, but what's up with this crap polyethylene glycol they're putting in their suppositories for a base? No wonder my wife's body rejected them.

So, a word to the wise - do your due diligence, and ensure the suppositories you buy have a base that's friendly to your body. Granted, some women may tolerate them just fine, but apparently, not my wife.

    Bookmark   November 19, 2013 at 4:14PM
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...and after what I just learned, abut the base of the suppository sometimes containing less than desirable substances, that's probably why the trick that someone above learned is getting her such good results (sorry, I forgot who came up with that ingenious idea.) That is, the one where she gets Carlson Key-E suppositories and rolls them in DHEA powder which she got from emptying DHEA capsules!

Because she's getting the goodness of the DHEA without the bogus (and potentially irritating) base my wife was subjected to. In fact, the combination of the vitamin E and DHEA, it sounds like, closely mimics what Bezwecken was doing with their E3. I mean, their E3 suppository had as part of its base vitamin E! And if my wife was cool with the roll your own approach, grin, she'd probably try it...but she prefers the no fuss, no muss approach. But hey, if it works for you, go for it! Just pay attention to the dose.

All the best,


P.S. When I emailed my wife's Naturopath with this new info about what's in the base of the DHEA supository my wife tried, versus what was in the base of the E3 she really liked (but Bezwecken took off the market), she replied that the new Bezwecken E3 is in the mail. So, my wife will be finding out soon enough how well that works. (This is the newly released "Hydrating Cubes" from Bezwecken, which replaces their E3 suppository. Looks like it will have 1 mg of E3. Not sure how well this new topical approach will work for vaginal atrophy, but we'll see.)

P.S.S. The Bezwecken Hydrating Cubes arrived (I'm updating this post, instead of creating yet another post), and I'm uploading a picture. There's 12 cubes in a package. Online, they're charging $16 or $17 a package. As you may be able to see, the directions say apply them topically. However, it appears like they have the same ingredients as the E3 suppositories. So my wife tried rubbing one of them on her skin the first night, but the next night she used it like a vaginal suppository. Nothing bad to report this morning, so she's going to keep using them as suppositories and see how that works. I'll give an update here on down the road.

This post was edited by JamesFromColorado on Fri, Nov 22, 13 at 14:38

    Bookmark   November 19, 2013 at 4:51PM
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Turned out I was unable to upload 2 photos in the last post, so here's another post just to show what the back of the Bezwecken Hydration Cubes look like. Just a reminder - that it was the Bezwecken E3 suppositories (which are now off the market) that totally addressed all the symptoms my wife had from vaginal atrophy. My wife would tell you that her use of the suppositories totally removed any hint of discomfort or pain during intercourse. So we're excited about these new Hydration Cubes, which appear to have the same ingredients, but appear to be designed to allow a woman to apply them topically to her skin if so desired.

All the best,


    Bookmark   November 22, 2013 at 2:45PM
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Vaginal atrophy, also called atrophic vaginitis, is thinning, drying and inflammation of the vaginal walls due to your body having less estrogen.
This medication Premarin is a female hormone. It is used by women to help reduce symptoms of menopause (such as hot flashes, vaginal dryness). These symptoms are caused by the body making less estrogen. If you are using this medication to treat symptoms only in and around the vagina, products applied directly inside the vagina should be considered before medications that are taken by mouth, absorbed through the skin, or injected.The ill effects of Premarin are - Stomach upset, nausea/vomiting, bloating, breast tenderness, headache, or weightchanges may occur. If any of these effects persist or worsen, tell your doctor or pharmacist promptly.
Check with your physician if you have any of the following problems and ask him to change medicines-
Irregular Involuntary Spasms of Limbs or Facial Muscles, Tobacco Smoking, Epileptic Seizure, Migraine Headache, A Blood Clot within the Blood Vessels of the Eye, Increased Cardiovascular Event Risk, Mammography Abnormal, Protein C Deficiency Disease, High Blood Pressure, Severe Uncontrolled High Blood Pressure, Heart Attack, Disease of the Arteries of the Heart, Blood Clot in Lung, Stroke, Obstruction of a Blood Vessel by a Blood Clot, Blood Clot in a Deep Vein, Asthma, Liver Problems, Disease of the Gallbladder, Lump in the Breast, Bleeding Not Related to Menstrual Period, Yellow-Brown Patches on Skin, Systemic Lupus Erythematosus, Pregnancy, Uterine Fibroids, Breast Cancer, Family History of Breast Cancer, Cancer of the Ovary, Cancer in the Lining of the Uterus, Tumor that is Dependent on Estrogen for Growth, Underactive Thyroid, Diabetes, Condition caused by Low Levels of Parathyroid Hormone, High Cholesterol, High Amount of Triglyceride in the Blood, High Amount of Calcium in the Blood, Water Retention, Hepatic Porphyria, Inherited Disorder of Continuing Episodes of Swelling, Overweight, Deficiency of Anti-Clotting Agents, Abnormal Increase in Ability of Blood to Clot, Disorder of Mental Processes due to a Brain Disease

    Bookmark   December 16, 2013 at 5:00AM
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Premarin - Yes, my wife and I are familiar with that. She took it for 18 months after her doctor diagnosed her with being in menopause. Sure, it alleviated most of the symptoms, but after 18 months she developed a non-atypical hyperplasia in one of her breasts. The surgeon who did the biopsy following her mammogram told her to get off the Premarin. Which, by the way, is made from pregnant mare's urine. Turns out, the molecular structure of Premarin does not exist in a woman's body. From personal reading, it sounds like bio-identical hormones (or substances) are the safest. If you have a choice of putting a substance in your body whose molecular structure is foreign to the body, compared with a substance whose molecular structure is familiar (or identical) to molecules already in the body, which sounds the safest? The body doesn't know what to do with some of the molecules in Premarin, because they're foreign to the body. Sure, it may alleviate the symptoms for a while, but at what risk? My wife almost got breast cancer from it. Seriously, if you're going to consider using Premarin or Provera, do some research first. Read some of the books by Dr. John Lee, called What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About_____. There's one on Menopause, another on Premenopause, and one on Breast Cancer, each with "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About" in the name. Sure, some women may use Premarin or Provera and for some reason not come up with undesirable side effects. But others may. If 100 people run a red light, someone's bound to have a car accident. Some may not. But is it really worth it to gamble like that?

On the other hand, the Bezwecken E3 topical solution is a bio-identical one. Meaning, when examined under a microscope, the molecular structure is identical to something already in the body! So your body knows what to do with it. I'm no doctor, and so this of course is not medical advice, but honestly, why would you choose Premarin or Provera (both synthetic substances) and roll the dice as to if you are going to have an adverse reaction to it, when you can try something like these Bezwecken Hydrating Cubes which have the same exact molecular structure as the E3 estrogen already in your body?

Sorry for the rant, but my wife and I developed a lot of passion around this after her taking Premarin almost got her breast cancer. There's lots of women who did develop breast cancer after taking Premarin or Provera. Coincidence? You decide.

But personally speaking, the Bezwecken Hydrating Cubes have given her relief from vaginal atrophy. She chooses to use them as vaginal suppositories, instead of rubbing them on her skin. Her Naturopath said use them once a night for 2 weeks, then taper off to using them twice a week. And they've worked great. Sex is once again not painful. Mission accomplished.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 3:59PM
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I can never have sex again, but I am not finished or over. I have a full life without sex. My husband was very understanding which made me love and respect him even more. He has passed away and I am traveling and am buying a new home at the age of 76..........77 in 3 weeks.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 10:13PM
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Unfortunately Amazon UK have now stopped stocking the DHEA 5mg and they have not indicated that its a temporary situation , unfortunately I only purchased one bottle having googled it I can only see USA or Canadian companies stocking this product
This is unfortunate as continuity of any vitamin or supplement is advised get full benefit

    Bookmark   January 5, 2014 at 4:10PM
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Hello all..., I think I've found the right place. I'm 50yrs old and post meno by 4 yrs. I've had pain with sex for 6 or more years. I've lost count of the years :( Over the past two I've began to have pain at times when walking. It feels like I have something poking me "up there". If I'm still, I don't have the pain. It's as though the walls of the vagina/cervix are irritated and walking rubs it together and causes the pain. I've been to the gyn and she said I might have light case of atrophy going on, but she'd seen worse. Does anyone have pain that is felt when you're walking? PS- I'm not sexually active, haven't been for the past two years so this pain isn't being cause by painful sex.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 12:25AM
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Yes I too have pain when walking ..its like a sharp dryness pain , difficult to describe really ........ it doesn't seem to be " High up " its very painful at times ,
I am not sexually active either so can't blame that , I find the Carlsons Suppositories do help this as does Replens for a while , but I'd really like a permanent solution
I've tried DHEA 5mg as suggested in a previous post and foolishly only bought one bottle now Amazon UK no longer stocks it and all other links seems to lead to American sites although they post in UK £ ... I am in the Uk ... I can't say that it helped as one would need continuity with any supplement .. Yes this is a very helpful forum .

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 6:22AM
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So pleased to have found this website.
I am currently 49, they say premenopausal, but I have been on birthcontrol for the last 6 months for heavy 10 day periods every couple of weeks.Almost 4 years ago I underwent a trans vaginal tape to suspend the bladder. Ever since that point I have had painful intercourse to the point of now not being able to even use a tampon. I also have ongoing UTI's. I have been on vagifem but don't find that helping all that much. I was also prescribed a numbing cream to aid - but it burned on insertion- needless to say, was a no go.If I am able to participate, I find that the tears feel like they are on fire from the semen on withdrawal.
My husband is a gem, but I worry about how this makes him feel as well.
I have been reading about the dhea and vitamin e supositories... also the hydration cubes with great interest. I am in Canada though and with our many restrictions, not sure what is available.
anyone here from Canada able to recommend a resource?
Thanks and all my best wishes to each and everyone of us on here suffering behind the scenes, and especially to our awesome spouses, as much as it affects our self esteem, I am sure that it also impacts on them.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2014 at 3:38PM
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Samathone-I am interested in the bladder issues too. I have a cystecele and uterine prolapse. My last child (20yrs ago) was a 9 1/2 lb baby that caused me 3 degree repair-painful right! Well have had bladder frequency starting around 2006 and took ditropan for that for a few years then in 2010 took another med for migraines nortryptaline so stopped the ditropan.
No bladder issues until this past Dec-after a zpak for sinus infection-then lots of burning pain light itching-thought it was yeast, then UTI- txed with monistat- no relief, AZO slight relief, cipro couldn't tolerate, then macro bid 4 days, diflucan 3 doses every other night, no relief urine & vaginal cultures all neg. Then the family dr throw up their hands-off to a GYN (mine retired-he said Lichen Sclerosis & gynecologist/urologist next day said no lichen sclerosis but vaginal atrophy!

So vesicare for bladder frequency (made my hems/stool worse) and clobetosol for one week. Back to Urologist stop clobetosol and just tried estrace cream last night for first time. Order is Estrace cream 1gram every other night. Urologist said I can use A & D ointment for vaginal pain.

I ordered the vitamin E supp everyone mentioned and thought I would alternate that. Needless to say the vagina bulging out (a full 2-3 grade) is uncomfortable and is not easy to deal with. I am a LC RN and work 4-9 hours at a time mostly standing-not great.

MD said pessary would make things worse and I am not ready for bladder sling surgery yet. I am so scared of that surgery!!! I am glad I have found this sight for support. Husband is not real understanding, so I applaud the guys/husbands that support their wives & post here!

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 11:02AM
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Holly2525 - back when my wife almost got breast cancer because she was taking HRT (according to the M.D. who reviewed the mammogram results and did the biopsy), it really freaked both of us out. My wife felt that she had done exactly what the Doctor said to do, and yet look at what it got her.

So, she began to do lots of research, as did I. We found Dr. John Lee's books, and long story short (as I think I mentioned in a prior post on this thread) she discovered Natural Progesterone Cream. It did exactly what Dr. John Lee said it would. In fact, it was so successful at eliminating the menopausal symptoms my wife was having, that I began to tell every woman who would listen to me. I couldn't help it. Just like finding the most wonderful restaurant ever, you can't keep your mouth shut about it.

As she went through her journey, I found myself posting on various women's forums, as if to both warn women about HRT, as well as to share my wife's success. We bought recordings and videos of Dr. John Lee's speeches, and even began to hand them out to friends and acquaintances, lol. You know, when you think you can see far down the road, and think you can see that the bridge is out, you want to warn anyone you can, lest they continue down that road to their own harm.

Well, fast forward back to the present...and I happened to do some searches, and found this:

(By the way, there's several sellers offering this same product, but only one of them has 296 reviews to read. Not sure why that is.)

I've long heard that kegel exercises are great for helping urinary incontinence issues, as well as for possibly increasing pleasure in the bedroom.

Well, no idea if this helps, but check out some of the reviews on this. One lady swears it cured her urinary incontinence problems.

Also, when google-ing trans vaginal taping procedure, and bladder sling, you can see there's many, many complications surrounding that procedure. If there's any way something like these kegel balls could help strengthen the relevant muscles, it sounds like it might possibly be a safer alternative.

I'm not a doctor, so of course this isn't medical advice, and not even sure from your description if this is an appropriate remedy, but after reading some reviews I couldn't help but let you know what I'd found. You may have other issues which prevent this from being a viable solution. Not sure. I wish you the best.

Update: I was being nagged by the thought that these said nothing about a prolapsed bladder, so did some more searching, and found this:

One of the purchasers/reviewers specifically mentioned she had a prolapsed bladder, and how after 2 times of using this she couldn't feel the prolapse at all.

Samathome - not sure if you received my private message, but I started to recommend what worked for my wife (the Bezwecken Hydration Cubes), but then felt I was going to be guilty of the "one size fits all" mentality.

So, after rereading your post, I was compelled to do some searches for the procedure you mentioned, thinking that's where one should start. It seemed inappropriate for me to recommend what worked for my wife, since you've got a variable that she doesn't have - the trans vaginal taping procedure.

When I found several sites that mentioned what sounded like similar (possible) post-operative complications to the same surgery, I just had to share them with you. I read that some women had the procedure reversed (i.e., had the mesh or tape removed, as best as possible) and actually got relief. No idea if that's appropriate in your case or not, but the mere fact that there's so many problems reported (and lawsuits filed) regarding this seems to suggest maybe that's where you could start (i.e., instead of hoping to find relief via Vitamin E suppositories, or DHEA suppositories, or the Hydration Cubes, etc.) My concern is that seeking relief via some of the products mentioned in this thread may just be a band-aid, when in fact you may need a more serious review of the procedure and possible complications to fully address the issue.

I'm not a Doctor, so of course this isn't medical advice, but hope you find the relief you're seeking and deserve.

Update 2-10-2014: A couple of years ago, when I was doing all my research on Vaginal Atrophy, I met a very well informed lady from the UK on another forum. I just recently communicated with her again, and she told me that she was using something called the Kegel8 Ultra 20 Electronic Pelvic Toner. It's a UK product, but I'm actually considering getting one for my wife, after hearing such glowing reports both from this nice lady from the UK, as well from The idea behind this nifty device,is it electronically stimulates a woman's pc muscles, just as if she was doing manual kegel exercises. It's powered by a 9 volt battery, and has all kinds of different settings. The idea is you start out slow, by using a minimal voltage setting, and build up. My friend from the UK has been using hers for 2 years know, and says it has really firmed things up down there. And when you read the reviews on both as well as the manufacturer's site, more than a few women comment on how it helped them get relief from some of the symptoms mentioned above (i.e., urinary incontinence, or a prolapsed bladder.) I was pretty impressed by everything I read, and wondered why I'd never heard of this before. Several women commented on the same thing, "Why hadn't I heard of this before?" So thought I'd update my post and share this with you. Good luck.

This post was edited by JamesFromColorado on Mon, Feb 10, 14 at 21:44

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 1:49PM
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Thank you everyone for your posts. I have ordered and just received the Magic Cubes, Key E suppositories and DHEA. I am 63 and intercourse is very painful. The most pain I experience during intercourse is further up in the vaginal wall. My gynecologist prescribed Vagifem and after only 4 nights of taking it I had severe cramping and diarrhea, fatigue and trouble breathing. She also gave me Premarin cream to apply on the outside, which caused soreness and swelling.

JamesFromColorado: I admire your interest in helping everyone. Can you tell me exactly what your wife is using to insert the Magic Cubes?

I have also tried Replens and I am now trying something similar that contains probiotics (I forget the name).

I appreciate all the helpful information I have received reading this forum. Thank you everyone.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2014 at 7:48PM
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I hope the Cubes work for you Pam321 I am in the UK and I don't think we can purchase them here ...
I'd be interested to know what type of DHEA you are purchasing , I bought the Youthful you one from Amazon uk and they no longer stock it so continuity of that treatment is not possible , I am worried about taking a higher doze of DHEA which is available from other companies

I bought the Kegal balls some time ago but I am unable to use them as I am so dry ( and tight ) up there its impossible to insert them - as they say in many of those forums use it or lose it , well I am not active and haven't been for some time so I'm just not loose , sorry if that is too much info , I would still like to feel comfortable up there and in the hope things could change keep myself moist and lubricated if at all possible
Its a wonderful Forum and I am grateful for all the info and advice on it

I agree about James from Colorado , so helpful all the research that he has done for he and his wifes benefit and has very thoughtfully shared it with us all , thank you James !
Good Luck Pam321

    Bookmark   January 19, 2014 at 6:21AM
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I asked my wife how she inserts one of these, and she said she just uses her finger to insert it as far up as she can so it will stay. She does this just as she lays down to go to sleep. Her Naturopath said to use one every night for 2 weeks, then taper off to twice a week for 2 weeks, then taper off to 1 a week. Also, she inserts a Vitamin E suppository (while reclining) like 30 minutes before planning to have sex. I wouldn't recommend using the DHEA and the Hydration Cubes at the same time, and you should not have sex soon after inserting one of these Hydration Cubes, lest it expose your partner to estrogen. And I would probably recommend finding a Naturopath. I'm not an M.D., though, so this should not be taken as medical advice.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2014 at 9:58AM
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Women should not expose them self to estrogen of any kind. Why do you think they stopped the last HRT tests they were doing on female doctors. The doctors taking the HRT wouldn't take it anymore.

I asked a doctor if supplements stopped hot flashes and other side effects of menopause are they dangerous? He said yes, it is providing estrogen the same as prescriptions do. My Gyn said I didn't need another paps test at the age of 69....because my body is not making the dangerous things meaning hormones. Also HRT of any form is much more dangerous if you quit them then go back on them later.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2014 at 8:50PM
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EmmaR - I can understand your apprehension when it comes to hormones. In fact, before my wife and I had a crash course, we were pretty uninformed ourselves.

But when she almost got breast cancer, everything changed. We did all kinds of research, and discovered all kinds of interesting things.

We came across some books written by Dr. John Lee, and listened to some of his recordings. (His books, by the way, can be found on Amazon, for example, and his recordings - from some very famous talks he gave - can be found here: )

Something we discovered was that "estrogen" is not "estrogen" is not "estrogen." For example, your body has several "kinds" of estrogen (E1, E2, and E3.) Also, imagine that you examined the molecular structure of these several estrogens under a microscope. Then, imagine you examined the molecular structure of "Premarin" or "PremPro" (typical HRT prescriptions) and you'd discover that the molecular structure of "Premarin" and "PremPro" do not match the molectular structure of any of the estrogens (i.e., E1, E2, or E3) which exist in any healthy woman.

Why? Because the pharmaceutical companies could not patent their drugs unless they differed somehow from what's already in your body. A naturally occurring substance cannot be patented.

And therein lies the problem. Your body does not know what do with these foreign molecules that are present in Premarin (made from pregnant mares urine), PremPro (which is Premarin and Provera) or Provera (a progestin, which attempts to mimic or approximate your progestation hormone - progesterone - but does not exactly look like it under a microscope, as per the "foreign molecule" they added, just so it could be patented.)

On the other hand, so we learned, there's a term called "bio-identical", which refers to natural hormones which have an identical molecular structure to those already in your body.

And that, as it turns out, is why many women are safely using natural progesterone topical creams, as well as the E3 Bezwecken Hydration Cubes, because they are bio-identical. That is, under a microscope they look identical to the hormones you already have in your body. So if your levels of a particular hormone have slipped a bit (which these days seems to be common when a woman goes through menopause), so we learned, it's safe to supplement with a bio-identical version (for example, E3 or natural progesterone.)

By the way, if you were to have a full panel saliva assay test done, and thus tested the full range of your hormones, you'd discover that your body is in fact still creating hormones. You may not realize it, but it's simply part of your body's normal operation. Something else you'd discover by doing a saliva assay, is if any hormones in your body have lower levels than considered normal, for your age. That's the safest way to supplement, so we learned - is find out what your current levels are first. And why a saliva assay test? As opposed to a blood test? Well, Dr. John Lee explains all that in his books and/or talks he gave. (It's kind of in depth.)

But you're right - being beyond the age of child bearing, the level of hormones your body's producing now is not as high as it once was. But you can rest assured that your body IS still creating hormones.

Something else we discovered, is how much money the prescription drug hormone supplementation market generates a year. The drug companies have a lot vested in protecting their market share. They certainly hope women don't decide to use something "natural."

As for my wife, she ended up no longer relying solely on a doctor for her information. Because relying solely on a doctor for her medical info almost got her breast cancer. Thank God for books like "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Premenopause", "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause", "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Breast Cancer," and "Dr. John Lee's Hormone Balance Made Simple: The Essential How-to Guide to Symptoms, Dosage, Timing, and More." Dr. Lee truly broke new ground when he published these books. His critics said he was full of it, but time has proven he was right all along. Reading one of his books and following the advice made the menopausal symptoms my wife had go away.

Here's something pretty funny, by the way. When Dr. Lee first came out with his books, his critics said he was crazy. How could a woman ever receive hormones simply by applying creams on the skin? To think that hormones could simply flow through the skin after applying a topical cream was utter nonsense, so they said. And yet, today, just look at all the patches that have come out which do exactly that. There's birth control patches, stop smoking patches, and many others. He really was ahead of his time.

But by the way, the reason they stopped the tests they were doing (like you mentioned in your post), was because they were not using bio-identical substances (i.e., foreign molecules, not naturally occurring in the body, were included in their "estrogen" as well as their Provera. Provera was their attempt to create a progesterone like substance - so they could patent it.)

Oh, and guess what else we learned? Guess where most Doctors get their info? From the pharmaceutical company sales reps. Doesn't that seem like a bit of conflict of interest? It does to us. After all, how many women got breast cancer from taking HRT which their well meaning (but misguided) M.D. prescribed.

If a menopausal woman followed the advice of Dr. John Lee, they'd be using some form of Natural Progesterone Cream to prevent Estrogen dominance (and the myriad of symptoms accompanying menopause.) After a number of years of following that approach, and being free of the symptoms that plagued her before, my wife eventually began to experience vaginal atrophy, and that's why I've posted numerous comments in here, to share how she addressed that. So, I'm sharing what's actually worked, from personal experience (my wife's, I mean.)

Hope that helps clear up some misconceptions.

All that said, I'm not a Doctor, so please don't construe any of this to be medical advice.

This post was edited by JamesFromColorado on Tue, Jan 21, 14 at 15:57

    Bookmark   January 19, 2014 at 9:54PM
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There are no misconception as far as I am concerned. I believe doctors and pharmaceutical companies far more than I do unregulated supplementals. They are not tested you may only get 1% of what it says you will get and next time you will get something to strong. I don't care for some doctors and I don't take any preventative meds because I think they are more dangerous than any thing you MAY get. If in the future I need drugs I will not take supplementals instead of going to doctors and getting prescription. We all have to make our own decisions and I choose things that the FDA regulates.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2014 at 12:06AM
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Thank you all for your quick responses.

JamesFromColorado thank you so much for asking your wife about inserting the Magic Cubes, and thank you for reminding me not to use them before intercourse.
Also I enjoyed reading your informative posting. I did come across Dr. Lee in my researches, and his comments helped me make the decision to go bio-identical.

LEModel: I am sorry you cannot find the Magic Cubes. I did purchase the Youthful You 5mg DHEA capsules from Vitacost along with the Key E suppositories. Like you I was not sexually active for a very long time, and became so dry and almost closed up. Now I am, and intercourse has been very painful. I found a lubricant called Pjur Woman that has helped me too, which was voted #1 in Self Magazine.

Thanks again for all your help and support. This forum has been really informative for me.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2014 at 7:19PM
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Pam321 you're welcome. You know, some of this info, after I learned it (and my wife and I enjoyed the benefits of it) we were both like "why was that so hard? Why wasn't this information more readily available?" And that's one reason why I'm sharing on here, so others can find the relief that seemed so elusive for my wife.

We too tried several lubricants, and they did ease some of the problems caused by dryness, but they left the tissue as it was. These Hydration Cubes from Bezwecken "plump up" the respective tissues, and make them appear younger and more healthy (so say the OBGyn.) No to mention the increase in arousal lubrication. Personally, I find it amazing the difference it makes. My wife was ready to give up, and was about to resign herself to "that's just the way it's going to be...", and I'm so glad we didn't just stop there. My hope is that any woman reading this who doesn't have some other type of issue or complication (i.e., vaginal atrophy is your only issue, and you're healthy otherwise) can get the same awesome results my wife did.

I've wondered why Bezwecken changed their approach from a suppository to a topically applied cube. I've come up with several theories. One, the fact that so many women are already used to applying topical creams...makes it less of a stretch for them to use these, since they're designed to be topically applied as well. Maybe they viewed the suppositories as messy, and or undesirable in some other way. Another theory I came up with, is that there may have been some fallout from couples not being careful to wait ever how many hours they should after using one of the E3 vaginal suppositories, and so the male perhaps experienced some undesirable side effects from his exposure to the estrogen. Who knows. But these seem to work just the same as the suppositories, so I'm not complaining.

I've said it before, but I'm not a Doctor or anything, so please don't take any of this as medical advice.

Also, I noticed that on Bezwecken's site, they have a link to ask for help finding a practitioner who is familiar with (and comfortable with) recommending their products. I don't work for them, and they're certainly not paying me anything to keep recommending them, lol, but if you need help finding a professional, check this out:

This post was edited by JamesFromColorado on Tue, Jan 21, 14 at 16:20

    Bookmark   January 21, 2014 at 3:45PM
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JamesFromColorado: Thank you so much again for responding and I agree with your theories on the reason for the cubes instead of the suppositories.

I was just about to ask you some questions when I found your post.
I purchased the Key E suppositories from Vitacost and the DHEA capsules. Here's what I have been doing. I have been doing the Cubes at night and the E supp's rolled in DHEA during the day. Today I only did the E by itself.

Something has been bothering me since yesterday, I am sore and irritated, not itchy though,but almost crampy in the groin area, and I think it is either the DHEA or the Key E. I think the base of the E is hydrogenated palm oil.

I ordered the older Magic Cubes, not the new ones, because I thought since I was doing this for the first time, I felt more comfortable trying the lower dose.,
I am wondering if I ordered the new Magic Cubes if I would need the Key E and DHEA?

If this is what your wife experienced with the DHEA please let me know. Also did the Magic Cubes work right away? As of right now, I feel like intercourse would be painful, but something is definitely irritating me,

Also thank you for the website, I will look to see if there is a naturopath near me that is using these.

Thanks again for all your help. Regards, Pam321

As of right now, the way I am feeling

    Bookmark   January 22, 2014 at 7:34PM
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Pam321 - You're welcome. (I started to respond to you directly, in case that was your preference, but I was unable to write to you directly. So, here goes...)

First off, I'm not a Doctor, but I can tell you what I've learned.

By the way, you're saying Magic Cubes, and I'm confused if you mean the Hydration Cubes from Bezwecken or something else.

But if you do mean the Hydration Cubes, you definitely don't need both the DHEA and the Hydration Cubes. The DHEA is what they call a precursor. That is, your body converts DHEA into whatever it needs. The idea behind the DHEA is that your body knows that it needs E3 - which is estriol - and thus it converts the DHEA into that.

So, using both the DHEA and the Hydration Cubes (if that's what you mean when you say Magic Cubes) is over doing it. You're getting too high of a dose. The Carlson E suppositories are a very soothing, replenishing force, if you will, so they're not doing any harm. So it's just too much doing the other 2 things.

Personally, I did a lot of research about the DHEA, and was really eager for my wife to try it. After all, there were several studies done, and without a doubt, the participants in the study reported receiving total relief of all vaginal atrophy symptoms. Chronologically speaking, this was after Bezwecken discontinued the E3 suppositories, but before they came out with the Hydration Cubes. She had been using only the Carlson E suppositories for a while, and they definitely helped more than any of the lubricants we tried, but the Vitamin E was not as helpful as the E3 suppositories. And that's why we were trying the DHEA.

But alas, the DHEA suppositories really irritated my wife down there. She reported itching, and irritation. This was after like a week and a half of using them. She stopped using them for a few days, and things calmed down, and so she started back up. But the irritation came back.

About that time, my wife's Naturopath mentioned that Bezwecken just released the Hydration Cubes. So we tried them for the first time (she used them nightly for 2 weeks, then tapered off to twice a week for 2 weeks, and then tapered off again to 1 a week.) If memory serves me, we waited until after she had used them every night for 2 weeks before we had sex, and it made an unbelievable amount of difference.

She's not experienced any irritation from the Hydration Cubes.

If you were my wife, I'd tell you to lay off everything until it calms down there. Then, I'd suggest you try the Bezwecken Hydration Cubes. The ones she used she found here:

Hope that helps. (Please feel free to message me directly if you'd prefer. Again, I'm only a consumer like you - not an M.D. - I just have the luxury of my wife's experience under our belt, which I'm very happy to share with you.)



This post was edited by JamesFromColorado on Thu, Jan 23, 14 at 0:04

    Bookmark   January 22, 2014 at 11:49PM
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A warning about Dr. John Lee and progesterone cream: I used this for a year with bio-identical estrogen cream (E2). I actually never used anywhere near the full dose until I read more John Lee books and decided to do the progesterone only. I fell into a deep depression and could not keep weight on. A saliva test of hormones showed my progesterone level sky high. It turns out this is a known effect of the creams: they can build up in your system. It took months for the effects to wear off. Throughout all of this I experienced vaginal shrinkage and experimented with very light occasional use of creams. My lady parts did not like this at first. One tip: Do not let this stuff get on your anus. Mine has changed! Anyway, I can tolerate very light occasional applications of estriol cream from Women's International Pharmacy. Estriol is the active ingredient of the Hydration Tablets. I do suspect there is a mix of complex hormone receptors in our bodies, so no one thing works for me. Some, like me, might be sensitive to hormones.
The DHEA pill inserted in my vagina resulted in stinging and a headache. Estrace (estradiol) cream gave me bladder spasms.
I suspect I'll always have to dab on a bit of hormone.
Some external factors that help: reducing stress, increasing vigorous exercise, wearing flat shoes (see for explanation of the effect of heels on continence), and keeping my vibration purring (listen to root chakra music on YouTube and wear red) and my senses engaged (try to cultivate some crushes). My favorite lube right now is Liquid Silk from the UK.
I might also fix my vibrator.
Good luck! Stay succulent.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2014 at 7:14PM
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eco-chick, so sorry to hear of your bad experience with progesterone cream. I was on another forum, and met several women who did not have the glowing success my wife had. I wish I could explain it. I guess there's a tendency, at least for me, to think that one size fits all...and that if something works for one woman, it will work for all women. But by now, I know better.

My wife's been using Natural Progesterone Cream for like 14 years, with wonderful results. And I was quite the blabber mouth when she discovered it, and thus I shared it with probably 25 women or so. There's so many variables, that when one of them said it didn't work for her, I assumed she missed using a cream that wasn't USPA certified (which would have ensured it was high quality), or she used one of the creams that testing labs proved actually had no progesterone in it at all, or she didn't use the right strength, or she didn't take a break for like 5 days every month, or whatever. I just couldn't fathom how it worked for so many I knew, and shared it with, but not for her.

But then years later, when I began to research this whole Vaginal Atrophy issue, I started to run into more women who didn't have glowing reports, and I must say I don't have any answers.

I guess the lesson here, for me, is that every woman's body is different, and what works today may not work next year, because things are constantly changing. Dr. John Lee did address the idea of a woman supplementing when actually she didn't even need to. Which is why saliva assays are so important, to identify what a woman's deficiencies (if any) are, so she can supplement as needed.

I ran into a woman from the UK who, her body just did not respond to the cream as expected. Her body didn't follow what the books I've read said. The nerve! (I'm kidding.) And just the other day, I communicated with her again, and she stumbled upon several things which were magically the key for her. So, I encourage anyone reading this, not to stop, not to quit. If what you've tried doesn't work, please keep researching, and looking. You just might run across a magic combination that works for you. My friend from the UK read, and read, and read, and finally found something that worked for her. And I hope the same for you.

All the best,


1 Like    Bookmark   February 4, 2014 at 7:59PM
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For those looking for DHEA in the UK...this US Site will ship to you: iherb Do a search for DHEA and then choose capsules if you plan on rolling a suppository in the powder.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2014 at 1:21AM
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I was reading all the posts on here and just wanted to say, if you have tearing/burning/itching...check for white patches on the vulva. If you have white patches, you may have Lichen Sclerosus instead of atrophy. The treatment for that is totally different. From what I have read, it involves steroid creams and if you can get your doctor to prescribe it, then estrogen cream and testosterone cream (the hormone creams bring back the elasticity and if your clitoris is fused, many women have had luck with getting that opened up again using the hormones creams).

A great reference site is (are we allowed to post URL's?) A biopsy will confirm this skin condition and the site has a lot of great info.

I was just doing a bunch of research on LS because I thought I might have it but it turned out to be an allergy reaction to moist wipes.

    Bookmark   February 13, 2014 at 1:31AM
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Dear JamesFromColorado,

First off I am familiar with Dr Lee. I successfully used progesterone cream 4 years ago when hit by menopause. I thought I was out of the woods, but now am faced with atrophy. I will be trying the Bezwecken Hydration Cubes, and would like to know which bio-identical progesterone cream your wife uses and at what dose/amount.

Thank you for your time and the energy you put into your research. Your wife is truly fortunate.

PS: I reviewed the cubes online. The Bezwecken site does not show the cubes... everything but the cubes. However I found another site that IS selling the cubes and they give many different options, even one with progesterone in it. Thing is, didn't Dr. Lee say not to use both estriol and progesterone on the same area? Secondly, the dosage is 1 mg to 40 mg ; estriol to progesterone. That would make it difficult to adjust my dosage to the least possible according to Dr Lees advice. I suppose I could cut a cube in half. Hmmm. Your thoughts here please!

The following is stated by Dr Lees associate Virginia: Estriol has been shown in numerous studies to be very effective in treating vaginal dryness when applied vaginally. Dr. Lee recommended just 0.5 mg of estriol twice weekly, and noted that many women find just half that amount usually works fine.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2015 at 7:17PM
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Dear axixic,

Glad you are familiar with Dr. Lee. Had it not been for his pioneering work with natural progesterone, I'm not sure what my wife would have done. Yeah, the atrophy kind of blindsided my wife. She kind of thought our days of being intimate were over.

Regarding which brand she uses, she just likes to make sure it's USP natural progesterone (I think that stands for United States Pharmacopia, and ensures it's high quality as well as bio-identical.) Also, she prefers the pump style of dispenser, so she doesn't have to measure it - instead, the desired amount is dispensed every time.

You're right that the Bezwecken site does not sell the cubes on their site. We Googled hydration cubes and that's how we found someone who sold them. I did that just now, and found 2 versions of the Bezwecken Hydration Cubes, one with a "1X" designation and another with a "2X" designation. Maybe that refers to the does. Not sure. But I can tell from the packaging that my wife is using the "1X" version. I'm going to try and upload a picture.

That's the "1X" version (even though I can't find anywhere on the package where it uses the "1X" term.)

I did not find a version of the cube that contained both estriol and natural progesterone, so perhaps that's a competitor wanting to get in on the action.

I'm no doctor...but I think the idea is this is supposed to be localized. Theoretically, it's not supposed to be systemic. However, my wife's boobs initially appeared a tad larger, and she reported they were a bit tender. It didn't take long for that to subside (somewhat disappointing to her, lol.) But that kind of proves, at least to me, that it's not totally localized in effect.

I don't really have any feedback about the dose. Back when Bezwecken made the E3 suppositories, there was a 1mg version, and a 2mg version (if I recall correctly.) My wife used the 1mg version.

Your idea of dividing the cube in two sounds like it would work.

I have to tell you, when she and I first looked into this, I was very conservative, and very nervous. It was great that we had the luxury of visiting with a Naturopath. She already had some experience with this, and it really put us at ease.

I should probably mention that my wife never stopped using the Natural Progesterone cream. She's 65 now. She uses it everyday, and then lays off for 5 days a month, like Dr. Lee recommended.

Sorry to ramble, but just trying to share as much as I can, for you as well as anyone else who reads this later. Hope this helps.

P.S. I found a picture of the "2X" version.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2015 at 4:25PM
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Hello James!

Thanks so much for responding. Again, your wife is truly lucky to have you and your energy!

Yes there is a Bezwecken that has both progesterone and estriol.

Their is one drawback to Bezwecken (EP cubes) cube which contain both estriol and progesterone (at a dose of 1 mg Estriol and 40 mg progesterone per cube). If we reference Dr Lee's thinking, we should use each estriol and progesterone separately. Estriol is applied to the vaginal area and the progesterone being applied daily, rotating that area.

Also, Dr. Lee is not recommending the EP cubs 40 mg, but closer to 20-25 mg of progesterone. Dr Lee also advises estriol dosing, to go lower than that of 1 mg in most package dosing (cube and cream). Dr Lee wrote (copied and pasted below) many women do fine with a 1/4 of that dose... which is half his 0.5 mg recommendation. To go that low, It may be best (for me) to just load a plastic oral syringe with the cream (easy enough to get) , and dispense desired amount.

Those syringes, were indeed how I received my progesterone cream, when I ordered it from an actual compounding company. Compounding companies are costly and without insurance, I must find a good product to replace that.

And yes, it is a good idea to test before starting, after starting and then at regular intervals. That way you know that you are not receiving a too high dose of the estriol. I've always done my testing with ZRT Labs, my Dr and Dr. Lee's site both recommend that lab.

Hey even if you feel great, you could be overdosing the estriol and not know it. Rather than take it for granted, that is just my personal choice, having had cancers run in my family... Why take that chance?

Even the well reviewed (online) Smokey Mountain Estriol is recommending higher doses, but quite frankly I will use their product with the lower guidelines that Dr. Lee mentions. I simply want to resolve the Vaginal Atrophy issues, before it further complicates intimacy later. Too much of a good thing (I took took too high a dose of Progesterone intially) while it may get a quick response, may not be a great thing for my body/future health? I didn't get to this state of moderate VA overnight, and would rather ease out of it, without overdoing the estriol. Silly sounding, but not so, considering I don't want to overdo it with a family history of my my mom's breast cancer. I will just ease in slowly.

I am also using a NeuEve moisturizing suppository. It has been a decent difference after one month's use. Enough so to use a small glass dilator, which helps reverse what narrowing is there, and to get rid of the constant itch and slight odor that had appeared within the past two months time. That odor was probably the early signs of BV. I successfully put a stop to that last issue with the suppositories and odor is gone. They say on the NeuEve website that you can successfully treat VA with their product, and avoid estrogen products. However, from what I have read, untreated at the root, it may get worse and even affect libido, and vulva size (shrinkage of outer tissues as well). I'd like to head that off, no more surprises, particularly not what is reversible.

I can only hope John Lees minimal dose of 2 x week for estriol 1/4 mg and daily progesterone, will indeed reverse VA and protect Vaginal health.

Dr Lee's website and his book on menopause have been such a source of important info. They are a must for any woman, as she faces this challenge.

I've included the following is information from Dr. Lee's website:

'There are three major estrogens made by humans: estrone, estradiol and estriol. Estriol has great benefit to the cells of the vagina, but has little effect on breasts or bone. The good news about that is that it doesn’t seem to promote breast cancer, and may even be protective against it. The bad news is that it doesn’t help retain bone. However, if a woman has vaginal dryness and/or vaginal cell atrophy, estriol is the best estrogen to use. The recommended dose is just 0.5 mg twice weekly in a cream, applied vaginally.

Estriol has been shown in numerous studies to be very effective in treating vaginal dryness when applied vaginally. Dr. Lee recommended just 0.5 mg of estriol twice weekly, and noted that many women find just half that amount usually works fine."

    Bookmark   March 7, 2015 at 6:45AM
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Hi axixic,

You're welcome, and thanks for the kudos.

Ah, there is a Bezwecken version of the Hydration Cubes. I found it.

Looks like "BEZWECKEN" has a light green rectangle border for the version with both estriol and natural progesterone, whereas that same rectangle border is red for the "2mg of estriol" version, and dark blue for the "1mg of estriol" version.

I agree with you, regarding what Dr. Lee said about them being used separately - the estriol being applied locally (vaginally), but the natural progesterone being applied topically.

You know, my wife went to this particular OB/GYN, and she prescribed a couple of creams from a compounding pharmacy. One cream was a mix of the E2 and E3, and the other cream was natural progesterone. They were each in syringes, too. But it turned out, that the dose she prescribed, was way over what Dr. Lee recommended. (She's not using that cream anymore, but instead, she's using some other over the counter creams.)

While we were trying to find relief for her vaginal atrophy - before we discovered the Bezwecken products - we tried what one lady said worked for her on a different forum. She was using some of the Estriol cream, which was really made for topical application, but she was inserting just a dab vaginally ever so often (I forgot how often.) She reported that it totally got rid of the vaginal atrophy, and that intercourse was no longer painful. But my wife tried this method, and after about a week began to notice an adverse reaction. I was disappointed (as she was) because she was already using this estriol cream topically. So, we kept looking, and eventually found the E3 vaginal suppositories, and then the hydration cubes.

Regarding saliva assays, my wife first used ZRT Labs as well, and most recently she used a different firm recommended by her Naturopath.

You having had cancer in your family, I can sure understand your wanting to be conservative. You mentioned that your mom had breast cancer. May I ask, was she using Premarin or Provera?

I read some of the info on the NeuEve site, and it sound promising. Sounds like women have found it to relieve vaginal atrophy. I understand it's already helped you get things back in balance down there. Cool.

Sounds like you've got the right attitude, and a healthy dose of persistence. Being persistent goes a long way, we've discovered. Hang in there, and don't give up until you get the relief you need and deserve.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2015 at 3:41PM
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Oh, I found a picture of the Bezwecken Hydration Cubes with natural progesterone.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2015 at 4:03PM
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