Divorce or Not - please help

philmont_2006April 2, 2007

Hi, I will try to keep this short but it will be hard. My wife and son (15) got into it the other night again. What happened is she was all pissed off before he even got into the house from school (because my daughter called me before he got home and said "mommy hit me and is being mean to me". She hit her (not hard) with a broom in the ankle area. (My 12 year old son witnessed it). Anyway my 15 got home and I guess was listening to the stereo to loud so he finally turned it down and then the UPS guy came and he was expecting some shorts so he took the box. The box had my wifes name on it because when she orders stuff on the internet she always puts her name on the box. Anyway I guess there was a struggle to get the box and she slapped him on top of the head and he got pissed and pushed her and shoved her. (I was not home). Less then 2 years ago she was reported to SS for really beating him up. (I was not home) but my son said she was going to kill him so he ran off. Anyway from this past incident she is saying it is 100% his fault and says she hates him and never wants anything to do with him, that "he is your son". She has a long history (20 years of marriage) of depression and anger. She has been on meds for 20 years and counseling on and off but the roller coaster continues. She blows up 4 times a year nomatter what and if the kids (mostly the older one) is around watch out.... I have not mentioned the hazing that goes on as well. I am a strong believer in marraige but I'm at the end. We have talked about divorce, I have threatened and she has said she doesn't want any custody of the 15 yr old but wants 50% of the other 2. I want more than 50% and the kids do to.... I really want to know what is best for the kids .... all the kids not just my oldest.....

please help me....

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The issue here is the way your wife behaves.

She is blaming everyone else for her unhappiness.

Unless this is resolved how can you continue with this way of life ?

Put your children first, what is best for them ?

Please get some counselling to help you decide what is the best thing for your family.

You may need the advice of a lawyer.

Try not to get embroiled in senseless arguments with her, remember the big picture, remember that you want a calm, happy family life, where everyone treats each other with respect.

Children come first.


    Bookmark   April 2, 2007 at 6:14PM
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Your wife hit your daughter with a broom (it doesn't matter how 'hard')? She beat the son around the head?

You've GOT to stop making excuses for her. She's abusing your children. Even so, the physical hurt she's doing to them isn't nearly as important as the mental/emotional hurt she's causing. The physical hurt will probably heal in a few days--the mental hurt she's causing very well may be with them for the rest of their lives.

Your children are learning that adults handle disputes with physical attacks--is that how you want them to treat your grand children? Your children aren't seeing how a loving couple lives, loves and settles things. You're giving your children a terrible legacy by keeping them in such a dangerous situation. I know you've heard this before, but abused children often grow up to be abusers themselves. I can't believe you want that for your children.

It's not always an 'either/or' situation. Maybe, if you sit down with your wife and her health care providers, you can find a way to get her the help she needs. But while you're searching for that, you NEED to get your children out of such a toxic environment. And let your wife know that if there's to be any chance of your marriage surviving, she's got to be diligent about getting help, and listening to the drs, and following every bit of advice they give her. She has to know that you won't stand for your children being at risk--even if she is their mother.

I'm almost in tears as I type, imagining how helpless your poor children must feel--knowing that mommy doesn't like them very much (at least some of the time), that she's hurting them, and there's no one who seems to want to help them.

Start documenting everything--but get those poor kids to a safe place where they can learn that children are to be loved, not hit. Good luck to you all.

    Bookmark   April 2, 2007 at 7:20PM
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Do you remember posting this back in October?

Shame on you for keeping those children in a battle zone all this time.

They not only deserve freedom from fear of their mother, they deserve a father who's willing to take action on their behalf.


Stop "negotiating" custody with her;
get your *attorney* to make your *demands*.

I'm assuming that your posts are accurate, not exaggerated, & that this woman really does hit her children, really is on meds, really is unreasonable, etc.

Assuming that that is the case:
A woman who's been reported for child abuse,
who's been on psychotrophic meds for 20 years,
whose "counsellor" is aware that she hits her children,
& whose children are old enough to testify or to be deposed...
is not in a position to demand any particular thing in the matter of custody.

Perhaps you've not taken any action because you enjoy appearing to be the calm eye in the hurricane of your family, & perhaps you post here because you want to hear how bad your wife is.

That's between you & your wife & maybe your physician or psychiatrist.

The children didn't start this dynamic, & they don't deserve to be subjected to it.

In some states, when there are allegations of child abuse, the courts appoint an attorney to represent the children.

& a spouse who is aware of abuse & who does nothing to stop it can be charged with abuse, can have the children taken away, & can be jailed just like the one who actually hits the child.

You might want to take some sort of action before that happens & you lose all control over your life & before you possibly lose your children.

Here is a link that might be useful: Why Is Hitting a Child Not Child Abuse?

    Bookmark   April 2, 2007 at 7:49PM
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Guys and Gals, seriously I appreciate your advise, I really do. I already have an attorney so I think I know what I need to do even before I posted this but I just wish I had more knowns than unknowns. The kids will be assigned an attorney, my lawyer told me that. What he did say is that the most custody (placement) I can get is 80% because she has not killed anyone yet....and it could go down to 50% (which I can't leave my kids there with her at a week at a time). So that leaves the kids there every other weekend with just her at least,,,, that is my dilema...Why can't I find out what the placement would be before we divorce?????.. but she doesn't want the 15 yr. old so then its just my 12 and 7 yr old. I know I know, I need to pull the plug....I want to make this as smooth as possible for the kids and I know she will make it a mess but I need to do it.... I remember the post very well Syl... I was crying to when I wrote the message...

    Bookmark   April 2, 2007 at 8:21PM
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In the interest of your children why don't you make her an offer she can't refuse? Rather than make it an adversarial thing - "I GET" "I WANT" - tell her that you will take the little darlins off her hands 24/7 and she can pick the times when she wants visits. Just not too many because she surely has lots of important things to do (wink, wink).

It seems to me that the important thing here is to get those children safe and out of her control without starting world war III. Can ya do that?

    Bookmark   April 2, 2007 at 9:34PM
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Why would she have any shared custody if they arent even her kids??? Are any of them yours and hers together? Obviously the 15 year old isnt.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 2:04AM
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I would assume you cant find out what the visitation rights will be before the divorce, because it has to be decided in a court.

Do you have close family that can help you with this situation ?

I wish you all the best.

Please keep posting so we can give you words of encouragement.


    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 3:06AM
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Update: Just so everyone is clear all the kids are ours together ... it's just that she hates the 15 yr old and doesn't want anything to do with him again (nice huh). If I knew I could get 100% placement this would have been done years ago but knowing that it will be between 50% and 80% is my dilema. She knows the game and knows how to play it very well but I can't let that stop me....

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 8:49AM
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I almost don't even want to get involved in your post, but I too would be afraid about the time with the kids she would get. The fact that SS was called before would help, but generally unless very well documented and/or hospitalizations are involved, the courts often won't listen to one spouse bad mouthing another (even if it's ture)...and heresay becomes, well heresay.

Maybe they will believe the violence it is the son's fault. Gotta tell you, your son really should have let go of the box and should not have shoved his mom even if she did slap him first. Why would he not give her the box if she wanted it? Sounds like he's got some problems himself and is taking after her. Has your son had any problems outside the home? You never know how the courts read things. I wouldn't be so sure she wouldn't get the custody she wants.

Good luck; glad you consulted an attorney to get a better sense of what you are up against. I think you may be in a no win situation, but I wish the best for you and your kids.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 9:33AM
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Carla, You have a great handle on what I have been facing, thank you much for your objective thoughts. My son did have some issues in school with being bullied 3 years ago, since then things have been fine... He is not perfect by any means but he is a good kid, no trouble with drugs or the law or girls etc. He is the leader of a boy scout troop. It's not just as easy as take the kids and run. My lawyer said the 2 older kids 15 and 12 will have a lot of say on placement. Many of the blow ups are documented (I have not idea how good) with our counselor. It will be 3 weeks tomorrow that this last incident took place, my wife is still so pissed and my son has tried to move on. If she is not getting most of the attention in the family and is not in complete control she is a mess. Anyway I have an appointment to see another counselor that has not been involved in any of this from either me or my wife....

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 11:16AM
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You may want to try to keep some written and dated documention yourself although they may not really care about the daily more trivial (at least to the courts) stuff.

I am not sure how your counseling sessions are set up, but I have a feeling the counselor may not be able to release information (at least your wife's comments) without your wife's approval if she was at the meetings (and they don't usually like partial transcripts)...something you may want to ask your new counselor and lawyer if you are counting on being able to use that info.

I am curious as to how the counseling has been going as I would guess it may not really be that helpful with an abusive partner who it sounds like probably needs doctor and medication over a counselor. Has she used the sessions to lie, etc. and even to be more abusive within the sessions? Are you all going and has it helped any or do you just come home feeling even more frustrated?

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 12:01PM
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Carla, the counseling in the past couple of years has not been much, anytime we go she thinks it is to gang up on her. I mostly felt that we got something out of it but thats my thoughts not hers.. I don't think she gets anything from it. She was raised like a dog and abused a lot, she is still very bitter ever day about that... I feel for her but my kids must come first. My oldest has been waiting for me to make a move for a couple of years.... I keep telling him its very complicated. My wife says he wants to pit us against each other to get his way. My daughter keeps asking me "why is mommy so mean". I just don't know.........

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 1:47PM
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Sounds like she is mentally ill, maybe bipolar. AND abusive. Document everything and maybe the kids will be able to refuse to go with her if they are afraid of her, and it has been documented that she has been abusing them. The situation is not going to get any better by waiting longer. Get you and your kids out of there as soon as possible and then figure out everything else.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 3:40PM
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Agree with jennmonkey~maybe at custody you could suggest to the judge she be tested for mental illness.That her behavior with your kids is questionable at best. That may help you out some.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 4:56PM
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Consider what these folks are saying. Subjugate yourself. What's best for your kids? Act on your answer.

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 8:50PM
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